Albania "wants Greece to recognize Kosovo"

And I want Albania to return North Epirus to Greece.

Big deal, this is not interesting news at all. Serbia doesn't want other countries to extend recognition, Albania does, its called politics. Far more interesting to me is why Greece still considers itself at war with Albania.

I really would not be surprised if Greece officially recognises Kosovo in the next six months.

It isn't really a case of "if Greece will recognise Kosovo?", it is more a case of "when will Greece recognise Kosovo?".

Greece already de facto recognises Kosovo, they have a dialogue with Kosovan politicians; they recognise Kosovan Passports and they vote in favour of Kosovo joining international organisations. Greece's recognition of Kosovo will not be a surprise to anyone.

Romania is another country which wants to recognise Kosovo. They've tried to organise a coordinated recognition with Slovakia before and now they've said that they'll recognise Kosovo in 2015 (I don't understand the significance of 2015). But I'm sure as soon as Traian Basescu (Russian loving ex-Soviet) is out of the picture, Romania will recognise Kosovo in a heartbeat.

I really would not be surprised if Greece officially recognises Kosovo in the next six months.
This the usual Albanian wet dream about recognition since 2008.I wouldn't be surprised if Greece doesn't recognise Kosovo in the next thirty years.

It isn't really a case of "if Greece will recognise Kosovo?", it is more a case of "when will Greece recognise Kosovo?".

It won't be before Serbia does.

Greece already de facto recognises Kosovo, they have a dialogue with Kosovan politicians; they recognise Kosovan Passports and they vote in favour of Kosovo joining international organisations.

Your sources on the above or is it the usual talk of internet cafe?

(Bulgar of Ohrid, 5 November 2013 13:54)

Have you read the article? If you want to continue with your delusional propaganda visit your kind of poisonous sites like Mina and Mak news.

Albania "wants Greece to recognize Kosovo"

and

Lord Vader requires the Rebel Alliance to surrender.

Albanian President Bujar Nishani has asked his Greek counterpart Karolos Papoulias "to recognize Kosovo."


The Albanian president should've known the duties of the Greek president are not political but ceremonial ones and therefore the "recognition of kosovo" is a non-issue.Also the war law between Albania and Greece was abolished through a decision by the Greek government in 1986 and this was recently confirmed by the present government.

Sounds more like an order to me. Greece have had their taste of what a full "membership" (slave-contract) in the €USSR Borg-Hive is like and if the Prada & Gucci-dressed €UROFAG-cockroaches dared they would give whatever part of the country the Albanians demand but they wont because that would be the end of that banksters project. Serbs should wake up from their 20 years ongoing Otporian Zombie-walk into the abyss, and reclaim what´s theirs. Where is that unity that would save the Serbs now? Looks like NED & Soros succeeded after all....

@ Ian, UK

I speak only for Romania, since I am Romanian :)
Ian, you may know some things, but UK is faraway from Romania, and you got some info distorted. Let me explain, for the sake of truth.

First, I never heard about a Romanian-Slovakian coordinated recognition of Kosovo, and I am a journalist working in Bucharest, covering the work of the Parliament. I have no idea how this info appeared, but I think is false.
Second, Traian Basescu is not a friend of Russia, he is a big friend of US, and his constant pro-American position has influenced heavily the relation between Russia and Romania (inasmuch that we pay the biggest price for Gazprom gas among European countries, and Basescu is widely criticized by Russian media).
Third, the signification of 2015 is that Basescu's mandate will finish in 2014, November, therefore we will have a new president. The one having the first chance is the current head of the Senate, Crin Antonescu, who is against Kosovo recognition.
As for the recognition of Kosovo, what happened these days is that the Prime-minister Victor Ponta has visited US recently, and tried to outbid Basescu on pro-Americanism, in order to boost his credentials with the Obama administration, and probably he thought that promising them something Basescu was not able to deliver would be a good idea. Actually, is a poor one. There is no interest in Romania for recognizing Kosovo, and US has no need to pressure us in doing this.

Albania should stop begging and be men instead of little mice lol and next north Epirus is Greek lands and not Albanian lands and should be back to Greece as soon as possible.....lets get that out............

Leonida, you should also know that this visit from Papoulias is anything but ceremonial - he came to iron out things that the previous guest could not. He came to request things and is receiving requests in return - it's a give and take world.

Regarding the War Law, the Albanian Embassy requested a written opinion from the Greek Foreign Ministry a couple of years ago and it was assured that the law is still in effect and it can only abrogated by the Parliament.

Albania should follow Greece's example and confiscate the property of all the enemy citizens and kick them out of the country. Then the Greeks in Albania would be in the same footing as the Cam population, and we can talk about the War law and property restitution.

What a joke haha...

(Thoma Brecani, 5 November 2013 15:17)

Have you heard of the massacres of Greeks around the Paramythia region in Epirus and the rounding up of Greek Jews from Ioannina by the Cham Bali Kombetar in 1941-43?

If you don't know WTF I'm talking about you can open some decent history books.Start with British historian Mark Mazower and his book " after the war was over" in which he describes the crimes committed by the Chams and he concludes the goal of the Chams was the "unification of Chameria with Albania".Then you can talk about the Chams.

It's a two way street.
(Brandon, 5 November 2013 15:33)

No it isn't.Do not try to equate the property rights of the Greek minority with those of the Chams.The Greeks,unlike the Chams,are not accused of any crimes committed against Albanians.The Law of the sea has been ratified by both Greece and Albania so what is the problem?With regard to Kosovo the Greek position remains the same as in 2008.

"Far more interesting to me is why Greece still considers itself at war with Albania."
(Nikolle, 5 November 2013 13:40)

It's not because of a "stupid technical reason" as someone said. The real reason is that if Greece recognizes that it's not at war with Albania, they would have to legally re-institute all the property that was confiscated from the expelled Albanian Cham population during WWII. That would mean that they would have to give back much of Southern Epirus to Albanians.


"Albania should follow Greece's example and confiscate the property of all the enemy citizens and kick them out of the country. Then the Greeks in Albania would be in the same footing as the Cam population, and we can talk about the War law and property restitution."
(Thoma Brecani, 5 November 2013 15:17)

Maybe that's the way to do it, but the few Greek villagers in Southern Albania have been mostly friendly to Albanians and are mostly integrated in Albanian society (many are even married to Albanians). I guess we have more of a conscience than our neighbors, which makes us weak. I think it should be done selectively, starting with the properties of the troublemakers in Himare.


"I want greece to acknowledge the atrocities and complete ethnic cleansing"
(Bulgar of Ohrid, 5 November 2013 13:54)

I think Albanians and Macedonians should join efforts in this regards, because both our smaller nations were hurt by Greek megalomaniac ideas.

Far more interesting to me is why Greece still considers itself at war with Albania.
(Nikolle, 5 November 2013 13:40)

Probably for some stupid technical reason. The British town of Berwick-upon-Tweed was technically at War with Russia from 1856 until 1966 when the Mayor of Berwick-upon-Tweed made a 'peace deal' with the Soviet Union. He was famously interviewed after the 'peace deal' by a Pravda journalist and he told him "Please tell the Russian people through your newspaper that they can sleep peacefully in their beds.". Greece probably considers itself at War with Albania as a Peace Agreement was never officially signed or formally ratified, something stupid like that.

It's human nature to want things...

I want greece to acknowledge the atrocities and complete ethnic cleansing of slavs from modern day northern Greece, an area that was inhabited by slavs for over 1300 years.... Not Christians from Asia minor. Shame greece shame...

Greece should return south Epirus to us or tsamuria we had enough of Greeks Janina was the capital of Albania Papulias himself is an Albanian he was born in vushtina in janina

Comments made by "proud ALbanians" and "credible experts" selling their idiotic ideas as "history" prove 2 things

1. Their lack of understanding when it comes to the position of albanians in the food chain.
2. The fact that there is no such thing as albanian - greek friendship. What is there is nothing but deep and genuine hate.

We are ready to forget number 1 if land currently occupied by albanians is returned to us. Or else, there will be trouble and you can import as many islamists as you want from turkey or bosnia but we will go to war and you will regret it

Leonidas,
There is nothing wrong to talk between both governments, regardless of the level of representation. Both countries have their own interests and are stating them clearly. Greece is warry about the property rights of Greek minority and the sea border line(thus oil and gas reserves in it), Albanians about Tcham property rights (hence removal of the law of war by the parlament, not the government) and Kosova recognition. In addition both countries have common interests in the TAP line. So I give up something, you give up something. It's a two way street.

According to statistics available to date, the victims and the missing among the Albanian minority in Greece, during the massacres in the years 1944-1945, number 2,877, broken down as follows:
Filat and vicinity, 1,286; Gumenica and vicinity, 192; Paramithia and vicinity, 673; and Margellëç and Parga, 626. This was the fate of all those who were unable to flee Chameria, with the exception of a few women who are today living witnesses of the chilling massacres in Paramithia, Parga, Spatar, and Filat. The words that come from their mouths make clear the naked criminality and barbaric acts, organized by the Greek Monarcho-Fascist reaction in Chameria.
This carnage, inspired by the basest sentiments of chauvinistic and religious hatred,....
A total of 68 villages with over 5,800 houses, were seized, destroyed and burned down.
An account of the damages reveals that the Monarcho-Fascist forces of Zervas seized the following assets left behind [by the Chams] in Chameria: 17,000 heads of sheep and goats, 1,200 heads of cattle, 21,000 quintals of cereals, and 80,000 quintals of [olive] oil; plus the produce of the year 1944-1945, which totaled 11,000,000 kg. of cereals, and 3,000,000 kilograms of [olive] oil. During the exodus, 110,000 sheep and goats, and 2,400 cattle died or were lost.

Killing Cham-Albanian babies was an act of cowardliness towards Albanian race...

http://www.albanianhistory.net/texts20_3/AH1946.html

(Feliks, 6 November 2013 14:17)

Greece shipped off thousands of Muslim Cham Albanians by force to Turkey during the 1923 population exchange. Greece did this to change the demographics of Chameria. Greece wanted to swap the Cham Albanians with the Greek minority in Southern Albania but Albania said no, so Greece sent them to Turkey instead. Greece didn't care where they went as long as they were no longer in their home land of Chameria. Greece tried to deny the remaining Christian Cham Albanians of their identity and tried to make them Greek by force. Cham Albanians have always been persecuted in Chameria by Greeks. Sad but true.

Ian UK knows sweet FA. He can't even be bothered to back up his opinions with links. Do not take anything he writes seriously because he loves to try and wind others up for fun. The forum here is only used for his own pleasure so don't expect too much from him. That's superior and ignorant brits for you.

See what Greek historians (in Greek)say about Cham-Albanians people.
They shamelessly admit that Cham Population was the elite society of Byzantine Empire.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4AwM_QHopY
Chams and Suliots are proud Albanians and Greex should learn to respect them time has changed again.....Gree are not in position to lie as they have done in the past. The truth exposed....

The Cham issue again... Listen well Albania, Ipiros and Thesprotia are Greek and will remain Greek till every last one of us is gone. The Chamides were war criminals and traitors to Greece because they were Greek citizens. They should of stayed and faced their punishment instead of running away like the cowardly scum that they were. They sided with the devil and the price they paid was nothing compared to the price so many innocent Greek families paid. So any politician in Greece that makes any kind of concessions on the issue will be commiting political suicide. Greece will be more than happy to move forward and Greek Albanian relationships have flourished and will continue to do so as long as Albanians stop being unreasonable and making claims on Greek soil. Greece to would like to have all of Asia minor and Istanbul back but we all realise that would be unrealistic and actually wrong after all these years. So hush your mouths and actually try to move forward peacefully and as good neighbors rather than claiming property that belonged to traitors of the Greek nation that should of hung for what they did, betray Greece their country.

Far more interesting to me is why Greece still considers itself at war with Albania.
(Nikolle, 5 November 2013 13:40)

Not interesting for me at all since they have problems with Turkey, Macedonia as well. They can consider themselves at war with Albania for as long as they want and we'll just make fun of it. Cheers.

I never heard about a Romanian-Slovakian coordinated recognition of Kosovo, and I am a journalist working in Bucharest, covering the work of the Parliament. I have no idea how this info appeared, but I think is false.
(Daniel Maracineanu, 5 November 2013 15:33)

You can't be a very good journalist then.

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics.php?yyyy=2013&mm=06&dd=05&nav_id=86516
http://www.gov.ro/address-by-pm-victor-ponta-before-the-reunited-foreign-policy-committees-in-parliament-regarding-romania-s-position-on-the-status-of-kosovo__l2a120143.html
http://actmedia.eu/daily/pm-ponta-personally-i-believe-romania-should-embrace-same-stance-on-kosovo-as-its-eu-partners/46357
http://bsanna-news.ukrinform.ua/newsitem.php?id=22532&lang=en
http://www.abhaber.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=52573:g%C3%BCney-k%C4%B1br%C4%B1s%E2%80%99%C4%B1n-kosova%E2%80%99y%C4%B1-tan%C4%B1mamas%C4%B1-ve-k%C4%B1br%C4%B1s-sorunu&catid=214&Itemid=915

Albania #1.

(Brandon,

Has it occurred to you that when historians record certain historical events that have taken place they follow a certain methodology based on a number of reliable sources and not on wish full thinking or the chat rooms of Albo Cafes. If Greek migrations had taken place they would have been recorded by historians given the fact that Albanians are relatively new in the Balkans.On the other hand I could provide you with a list of historical sources which show the Greek character of what is today Southern Albania since the ancient times.

@Brandon,
So let's talk. You claim that the Chams suffered an ethnic cleansing by the Greeks (and from your point of view you have every right to consider it as such) and that Greece's argument of cham collaboration with enemy armed forces is weak. Well if an undeniable historic fact is weak then so is our argument. We on the other hand believe that when some people commit high treason, turn their guns against their own country and collaborate (the elite of the cham community at least) with enemies that invade and conquer that country and hand over the administration of the region to the Chams, then in that case some consequences are to be expected. If the Chams had remained in Greece, those responsible for war crimes would have faced court-martial and execution or life imprisonment. Would that have been a better development for them? At least in Albania they continued their lives and didn't pay for their crimes. You're gonna say that Napoleon Zervas and his right-wing partizans treated the cham population roughly without making any discriminations and on that i will agree with you, but at the end of the day "the Chams got what they deserved" and that quote is not mine, it's Chris Woodhouse's.
As for the Greeks in Albania being immigrants, i would ask you to stop repeating claims that you know very well that are unfounded.

@Brandon
I agree with you totally. We live in the same region and we're obliged to coexist because noone with a sane mind wants war. But please explain to me, in what way does the recycling of the non-existent cham issue by the albanian side promote the greek-albanian relations? Aren't we supposed to look ahead and not backwards?
@dori tirana
No i'm not, i'm reading the whole book and especially those pages that are unpleasant for my country. But i'm not willing to overlook undeniable historic facts which is the german-cham collaboration and the slaughters of 1943 and the formation of a cham militia that terrorized the local population of Epirus just to become popular among you guys. If you have evidence that such events never took place then by all means bring them forward and prove me wrong.
So an ethnic cleansing can never be justified? That's funny because i've read plenty of albanian comments in this forum where the ethnic cleansing of the Krajna Serbs is considered as perfectly justified since the Serbs turned their guns against Croatia. Nice double standards guys. And by the way the Chams were citizens of Greece, the Krajna Serbs were citizens of Jugoslavia. Their homeland was Jugoslavia, not the neo-ustasa croatian state.

It shameful to continue to to condone a crime that in today's Jurisprudence is a pure Genocide based on ethnic and religious grounds.
Not only Chams suffered from such terrible organized crimes of humanity from Greek administration with open encouragement and participation of Greek Orthodox Church.

See some crimes committed on real people with names women, children, elderly and the sick for the only reason they belonged to a particular ethnic population.

" Sanie Bollati of Paramithia was burned alive with gasoline, after her breasts were cut off, and her eyes were plucked out."

"In the house of Damin Muhameti, 5 women and 3 children were killed... In the house of Fetin Muhameti, Hane Isufi and another woman were tortured and raped...
In the house of Dule Sherifi, they cut off the heads of 80-year-old Sulejman Dhimicë and his wife. In the house of Meto Braho, 20 persons, including men, women and children, were burned alive... Kije Nurçia, 70 years of age, was knifed to death... In the vineyard of Zule and the garden of Avdyl Nurçe, I saw 20 people who had been massacred. In the house of Haxhi Latifi, the daughter of Haxhi Gulani was raped, while in the dwelling of Mejdi Meto, Hava Ajshja was raped, and Nano Arapi was both raped and killed."
http://www.albanianhistory.net/texts20_3/AH1946.html

As for the Greeks in Albania being immigrants, i would ask you to stop repeating claims that you know very well that are unfounded.
(thanasis, 6 November 2013 13:19)
Dear Thanasis you are reading only the pages of the story that you are interested for. I a'm an Albanian landowner in south of Albania befor WWII, and I can assure that Greek emigrants work and live at my lands. Also I can assure that a minority of Greek population live in Albania before 1912. I don't know how and why but they live there. Also we agree that Tcham population suffer an ethnic cleansing! And the ethnic cleansing can never be justified, whatever was the actions that the Elite of Tcham population or all Tcham population has done during WWII. Now we are in 2013, and by the law of God and Man the Tcham population has paid for what "they may have done", and by the law of God and Man they have to get back their properties and rights.Greece is not in war with Albania, Tchams are not in war with Greeks. End of the discussion.

Albania #1.
(Avni, 5 November 2013 22:13)

Aw, that's so cute.

Greeks and Serbs have always maintained themselves by screwing others. Everything these countries say or do point to that direction. Who needs competition anyway?

How about mending our broken relations? How about putting everything behind and start building a common and a better future? Surely, that's what 99, 9% of the albanians, greeks, serbs, and balkan people want. Cut the hateful propaganda and let's make it happen!!

Albania wants Greece to recognise Kosovo? I never knew the fundamentalists had a sense of humour.

Leonidas,
The agreement was dropped in Albanian Supreme Court, and rendered invalid . The Democratic Party that favored it lost parliamentary elections in a land slide.
We (Albanians) consider the removal of Tchams a pure ethnic cleansing. The pretext of collaboration with the Germans it's weak, as the vast majority of them did not participate in the war at all, and some of them fought against Germans. The argument is made even weaker by well documented similar attempts made in Southeastern Albania , previously, by Greek military. Also we consider the Greek minority as previous emigrants that came to earn their bread by working in the lands of large Albanians landowners.
This is our stance. If you want to talk fine, if not , oh well... .

Leonidas: "Your sources on the above or is it the usual talk of internet cafe?"

Sept 18, 2008: Greece to recognize Kosovo passports. Source B92.

[link]
(Sourcer, 5 November 2013 18:47)

This is from the horses mouth:

http://www.mfa.gr/en/blog/greece-bilateral-relations/kosovo/

Daniel Maracineanu,

Your first-hand knowledge is credible and appreciated.

@Albanian Islamist

Your nick embodies the worst of the Balkans.

Feel free any time to state your opinion in the center of Athens. And dont forget to wear a tshirt with your nick. You will love the attention you will receive.

Well, I thought Kosovo was supposed to be a Multi-ethnic Paradise.... Then why is Albanian minister lobbying for Kosovo? Why not for Serbas in Kosovo? They do not want independence. So why Albania is not lobbying against independece for these 'Kosovars'.
Well, maybe Kosovo is an Albanian project after all...
And I thought the West was opposed against nationalism... Very strange and very strange!

In respond to the comments above, we live in 21 century and this people have to grow up. The greeks have committed genocide and it is bad time that they pay for it. The greeks still live in the past but times have changed and they have to realise that the quicker they do the better it is for them. It takes a man to admit it is wrong but this people don't exist in greece.

Leonidas: "Your sources on the above or is it the usual talk of internet cafe?"

Sept 18, 2008: Greece to recognize Kosovo passports. Source B92.

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/region.php?yyyy=2008&mm=09&dd=19&nav_id=53613

The "information" or the so called "article" by a fake newspaper from a country that doesnt exist is an amateurish attempt of bad propaganda

Albania is in no position to state terms to Greece.

There is NO such thing as albanian - Greek friendship.

Greece will not recognize Kosovo and this is the end of the story.

"But please explain to me, in what way does the recycling of the non-existent cham issue by the albanian side promote the greek-albanian relations?"

this is a really interesting opinion. on a fundamental level i agree, going about the past is counter productive, but please do tell me, in what way does the greek government asking that the head of the Albanian Orthodox Church be a greek help relations? or still considering itself at war with said country? or going about the non issue of alleged Northern Epirus? i mean, these are all in the past right? why bring them up? lets look ahead

Ian During our facebook conversations you claimed to be objective on the issue however you failed to mention that you frequently write articles on a pro-albanian propaganda site which makes ur comments on a SERBIAN site completely onesided and unreliable.

Thanasis,Leonida
In no way shape or form I claim to be a Historian or a lawyer.Neither I claim to know it all. My point is (and I beleive you got it) that our nations are here, and relations between them are a two-way street. Churchill use to say nations have no friends, only interests. Greece can not further their interest in Albania without compromising with us. Being self-rightous is not a good way to deal with your neighbour. Anyway, good luck to you guys.

Bulgaria is the rightfull owner of those lands. You are all a bunch of sheppards grown as illeterates and looking for forged documents and lies that the French spread after Balkan Wars.

Thanasis,
For as much as we argue, our nations have never been closer. If Tcham case is a non issue, then it should not be a problem removing the law of war by the parliament, and allow them to seek their property rights within Greek or EU justice system . Also it would help if Northern Epirus is left alone by Greek nationalist. I admire your patriotism, and that's why I hope you understand my stance. I am guilty of your own sin, loving my country...

Not the first time a thread turns into an origin of Albanians discussion. According to Panajot Barka, who happens to be a Greek activist in Albania, the war law has as of yet, not been revoked. why that is the case, I can only speculate, but it is rather odd that it should still be in place.

For Greece would be detrimental to recognize Kosovo's independence, becaise it would immediately asked the Albanian minority greater rights in Greece. Albanians will not stop until they co-opt a part from Greece and Makrdinije, as they declared independence of Kosovo from Serbia.

Spiro
Very nice said moving forward as good neighbors.
However The thing about Chams that you forget to mention is:

The Chams were Greek citizens expelled by Greek Goverment.
Their properties are register in Greece by Greek Government.

So Greece expells its own citizens confiscate their properties and you blame Albania for this?

Ps:
The Chams corporation with nazis is very week claim.
Can you tell us today where do you find nazis in Greece or Albania?

(I don't understand the significance of 2015). But I'm sure as soon as Traian Basescu (Russian loving ex-Soviet) is out of the picture, Romania will recognise Kosovo in a heartbeat.
(Ian, UK, 5 November 2013 13:59)

Well, you already answered your own question. The Romanian presidential elections will be held at the end of 2014 so the issue of Kosovo's recognition can only be brought up in 2015.

Also, let's not forget that by then Romania will almost surely be part of Schengen Area and there won't be anymore restriction of Romanian and Bulgarian workers in the rest of EU so it will be easier to for Ponta to go ahead without facing much opposition.


@Thoma Brecani (I hope you have nothing to do with the likes of Erzen Brecani)

Here's a document that support our claims

http://imgur.com/a/iETtL

http://www.greeks-albanians.com/eng-m-home

Firstly, Greece has not been officially at war with Albania since 1971!

I would not count on any Greek recognition, the already hated Greek government would be pretty stupid to be seen to given in to the US and back stab its historic friend and ally Serbia for no gain whatsoever.

Ian, out of all your stupid and inaccurate comments (and thats a long list!) that one about Basescu may well be the worst. Babescu the Communist!? and the Soviet!? he is on record for saying Romania's pro-axis regime should have invaded the USSR to take back Bessarabia he has also attacked Romania's former king for being a "Russian puppet." Doesn't sound too pro-Russian to me?

Anyway, forget 2015, 2014 is the anniversary of the legal incorporation of Northern Epirus into the Greek state only to be illegally handed over to criminal Albanian rule by German and Austria. In 2014 lets restore this Greek land to its rightful owner!

The Cham issue again... Listen well Albania, Ipiros and Thesprotia are Greek and will remain Greek till every last one of us is gone. The Chamides were war criminals and traitors to Greece because they were Greek citizens. They should of stayed and faced their punishment instead of running away like the cowardly scum that they were.
(spiro, 8 November 2013 01:35)

There were many greek citizens (non albanians) that colaborated with the Germans, like every country had colaborators. Did they and their families get expelled from Grece? I dont believe so.

Thanasis, the geo-political environment in the Balkans is changing very rapidly. Greece is getting old, and has no friendly neigbors. Further Germany and EU will not bail you out forever.

Next time Turks come there to abuse you, Albanians will not be on your side to fight your war, like they did in 1821.

Spiro,
You do realize that neither the friendship nor the free thinking can be imposed by force, do you? Your arrogance is very telling...

Danile said, "Ian During our facebook conversations you claimed to be objective on the issue however you failed to mention that you frequently write articles on a pro-albanian propaganda site which makes ur comments on a SERBIAN site completely onesided and unreliable."

Yes, Daniel, and please note that the wanna-be-journalist, roberto from frisco and willi the german, are associates of the young man Ian. The 3 of them have a pathological obsession with Serbia that sure does leave them without objectivity.

Also, please do an internet search on Danilo aka Doot.

So let's talk. You claim that the Chams suffered an ethnic cleansing by the Greeks (and from your point of view you have every right to consider it as such) and that Greece's argument of cham collaboration with enemy armed forces is weak. Well if an undeniable historic fact is weak then so is our argument. We on the other hand believe that when some people commit high treason, turn their guns against their own country and collaborate (the elite of the cham community at least) with enemies that invade and conquer that country and hand over the administration of the region to the Chams, then in that case some consequences are to be expected. If the Chams had remained in Greece, those responsible for war crimes would have faced court-martial and execution or life imprisonment. Would that have been a better development for them? At least in Albania they continued their lives and didn't pay for their crimes. You're gonna say that Napoleon Zervas and his right-wing partizans treated the cham population roughly without making any discriminations and on that i will agree with you, but at the end of the day "the Chams got what they deserved

-- thanasis, your argument is weak. That is why there are courts. You bring the collaborators to court individually and you punish the guilty. You don't go on and kill babies and elders because someone collaborated with the your enemy. Not seeing it this way is pure madness; but madness was the goal, collaboration is the weak justification.

Dear Spiro,
I think you have made a mistake. I accept that some Chams collaborated with Germans, as a lot of Greeks collaborated with Germans too. But you cant say all of Chams collaborated with Germans, thats totallay ridiculus. The majority of them remained neutral while some of the chams fought against nazi Germans. There were christian Chams too, not only muslim who fought against nazis. But the majority of them stayed neutral. Thet greek army expelled ALL of them, simple people, old people,young children, women etc. Do you also consider ALL of them war Criminals ? NO! The Chams that collaborated with germans were killed in public by Enver Hoxha, the rest,( thousands of them) HADNT DONE anything and remained in Albania. Greeks found a chance to expell them.If im right, f.e the Greek Ioannis Rallis was a prime minister of Greece and collaborated with Germans. Did you expell/kill ALL the people of the city/village from which he had origin ? NO ! Because it would be unfair. The same happened with other greeks, nazi collaborators. Your government knows the ruth, and that youre wrong but dont want to accept it !

"They sided with the devil and the price they paid was nothing compared to the price so many innocent Greek families paid."
I agree Spiro, you have the opportunity as a Greek patriot to not accept your country begging to sale their sole to the devil for money (Germany). Otherwise this is called cowardness and the worst act of traitory that you do to your country Greece! However, if it makes you feel better and more patriotic you could carry on spreading your absurd lies.. (with a bit of help from your friends).
The Chams need to get back to their properties and handed back their Greek citizenship.

And I want Albania to return North Epirus to Greece.

It's human nature to want things...

I want greece to acknowledge the atrocities and complete ethnic cleansing of slavs from modern day northern Greece, an area that was inhabited by slavs for over 1300 years.... Not Christians from Asia minor. Shame greece shame...

Big deal, this is not interesting news at all. Serbia doesn't want other countries to extend recognition, Albania does, its called politics. Far more interesting to me is why Greece still considers itself at war with Albania.

I really would not be surprised if Greece officially recognises Kosovo in the next six months.

It isn't really a case of "if Greece will recognise Kosovo?", it is more a case of "when will Greece recognise Kosovo?".

Greece already de facto recognises Kosovo, they have a dialogue with Kosovan politicians; they recognise Kosovan Passports and they vote in favour of Kosovo joining international organisations. Greece's recognition of Kosovo will not be a surprise to anyone.

Romania is another country which wants to recognise Kosovo. They've tried to organise a coordinated recognition with Slovakia before and now they've said that they'll recognise Kosovo in 2015 (I don't understand the significance of 2015). But I'm sure as soon as Traian Basescu (Russian loving ex-Soviet) is out of the picture, Romania will recognise Kosovo in a heartbeat.

Far more interesting to me is why Greece still considers itself at war with Albania.
(Nikolle, 5 November 2013 13:40)

Probably for some stupid technical reason. The British town of Berwick-upon-Tweed was technically at War with Russia from 1856 until 1966 when the Mayor of Berwick-upon-Tweed made a 'peace deal' with the Soviet Union. He was famously interviewed after the 'peace deal' by a Pravda journalist and he told him "Please tell the Russian people through your newspaper that they can sleep peacefully in their beds.". Greece probably considers itself at War with Albania as a Peace Agreement was never officially signed or formally ratified, something stupid like that.

Greece should return south Epirus to us or tsamuria we had enough of Greeks Janina was the capital of Albania Papulias himself is an Albanian he was born in vushtina in janina

Leonidas,
There is nothing wrong to talk between both governments, regardless of the level of representation. Both countries have their own interests and are stating them clearly. Greece is warry about the property rights of Greek minority and the sea border line(thus oil and gas reserves in it), Albanians about Tcham property rights (hence removal of the law of war by the parlament, not the government) and Kosova recognition. In addition both countries have common interests in the TAP line. So I give up something, you give up something. It's a two way street.

Albania #1.

"Far more interesting to me is why Greece still considers itself at war with Albania."
(Nikolle, 5 November 2013 13:40)

It's not because of a "stupid technical reason" as someone said. The real reason is that if Greece recognizes that it's not at war with Albania, they would have to legally re-institute all the property that was confiscated from the expelled Albanian Cham population during WWII. That would mean that they would have to give back much of Southern Epirus to Albanians.


"Albania should follow Greece's example and confiscate the property of all the enemy citizens and kick them out of the country. Then the Greeks in Albania would be in the same footing as the Cam population, and we can talk about the War law and property restitution."
(Thoma Brecani, 5 November 2013 15:17)

Maybe that's the way to do it, but the few Greek villagers in Southern Albania have been mostly friendly to Albanians and are mostly integrated in Albanian society (many are even married to Albanians). I guess we have more of a conscience than our neighbors, which makes us weak. I think it should be done selectively, starting with the properties of the troublemakers in Himare.


"I want greece to acknowledge the atrocities and complete ethnic cleansing"
(Bulgar of Ohrid, 5 November 2013 13:54)

I think Albanians and Macedonians should join efforts in this regards, because both our smaller nations were hurt by Greek megalomaniac ideas.

Albanian President Bujar Nishani has asked his Greek counterpart Karolos Papoulias "to recognize Kosovo."


The Albanian president should've known the duties of the Greek president are not political but ceremonial ones and therefore the "recognition of kosovo" is a non-issue.Also the war law between Albania and Greece was abolished through a decision by the Greek government in 1986 and this was recently confirmed by the present government.

Leonida, you should also know that this visit from Papoulias is anything but ceremonial - he came to iron out things that the previous guest could not. He came to request things and is receiving requests in return - it's a give and take world.

Regarding the War Law, the Albanian Embassy requested a written opinion from the Greek Foreign Ministry a couple of years ago and it was assured that the law is still in effect and it can only abrogated by the Parliament.

Albania should follow Greece's example and confiscate the property of all the enemy citizens and kick them out of the country. Then the Greeks in Albania would be in the same footing as the Cam population, and we can talk about the War law and property restitution.

I really would not be surprised if Greece officially recognises Kosovo in the next six months.
This the usual Albanian wet dream about recognition since 2008.I wouldn't be surprised if Greece doesn't recognise Kosovo in the next thirty years.

It isn't really a case of "if Greece will recognise Kosovo?", it is more a case of "when will Greece recognise Kosovo?".

It won't be before Serbia does.

Greece already de facto recognises Kosovo, they have a dialogue with Kosovan politicians; they recognise Kosovan Passports and they vote in favour of Kosovo joining international organisations.

Your sources on the above or is it the usual talk of internet cafe?

Bulgaria is the rightfull owner of those lands. You are all a bunch of sheppards grown as illeterates and looking for forged documents and lies that the French spread after Balkan Wars.

(Feliks, 6 November 2013 14:17)

Greece shipped off thousands of Muslim Cham Albanians by force to Turkey during the 1923 population exchange. Greece did this to change the demographics of Chameria. Greece wanted to swap the Cham Albanians with the Greek minority in Southern Albania but Albania said no, so Greece sent them to Turkey instead. Greece didn't care where they went as long as they were no longer in their home land of Chameria. Greece tried to deny the remaining Christian Cham Albanians of their identity and tried to make them Greek by force. Cham Albanians have always been persecuted in Chameria by Greeks. Sad but true.

See what Greek historians (in Greek)say about Cham-Albanians people.
They shamelessly admit that Cham Population was the elite society of Byzantine Empire.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4AwM_QHopY
Chams and Suliots are proud Albanians and Greex should learn to respect them time has changed again.....Gree are not in position to lie as they have done in the past. The truth exposed....

According to statistics available to date, the victims and the missing among the Albanian minority in Greece, during the massacres in the years 1944-1945, number 2,877, broken down as follows:
Filat and vicinity, 1,286; Gumenica and vicinity, 192; Paramithia and vicinity, 673; and Margellëç and Parga, 626. This was the fate of all those who were unable to flee Chameria, with the exception of a few women who are today living witnesses of the chilling massacres in Paramithia, Parga, Spatar, and Filat. The words that come from their mouths make clear the naked criminality and barbaric acts, organized by the Greek Monarcho-Fascist reaction in Chameria.
This carnage, inspired by the basest sentiments of chauvinistic and religious hatred,....
A total of 68 villages with over 5,800 houses, were seized, destroyed and burned down.
An account of the damages reveals that the Monarcho-Fascist forces of Zervas seized the following assets left behind [by the Chams] in Chameria: 17,000 heads of sheep and goats, 1,200 heads of cattle, 21,000 quintals of cereals, and 80,000 quintals of [olive] oil; plus the produce of the year 1944-1945, which totaled 11,000,000 kg. of cereals, and 3,000,000 kilograms of [olive] oil. During the exodus, 110,000 sheep and goats, and 2,400 cattle died or were lost.

Killing Cham-Albanian babies was an act of cowardliness towards Albanian race...

http://www.albanianhistory.net/texts20_3/AH1946.html

Sounds more like an order to me. Greece have had their taste of what a full "membership" (slave-contract) in the €USSR Borg-Hive is like and if the Prada & Gucci-dressed €UROFAG-cockroaches dared they would give whatever part of the country the Albanians demand but they wont because that would be the end of that banksters project. Serbs should wake up from their 20 years ongoing Otporian Zombie-walk into the abyss, and reclaim what´s theirs. Where is that unity that would save the Serbs now? Looks like NED & Soros succeeded after all....

Albania should stop begging and be men instead of little mice lol and next north Epirus is Greek lands and not Albanian lands and should be back to Greece as soon as possible.....lets get that out............

I never heard about a Romanian-Slovakian coordinated recognition of Kosovo, and I am a journalist working in Bucharest, covering the work of the Parliament. I have no idea how this info appeared, but I think is false.
(Daniel Maracineanu, 5 November 2013 15:33)

You can't be a very good journalist then.

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics.php?yyyy=2013&mm=06&dd=05&nav_id=86516
http://www.gov.ro/address-by-pm-victor-ponta-before-the-reunited-foreign-policy-committees-in-parliament-regarding-romania-s-position-on-the-status-of-kosovo__l2a120143.html
http://actmedia.eu/daily/pm-ponta-personally-i-believe-romania-should-embrace-same-stance-on-kosovo-as-its-eu-partners/46357
http://bsanna-news.ukrinform.ua/newsitem.php?id=22532&lang=en
http://www.abhaber.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=52573:g%C3%BCney-k%C4%B1br%C4%B1s%E2%80%99%C4%B1n-kosova%E2%80%99y%C4%B1-tan%C4%B1mamas%C4%B1-ve-k%C4%B1br%C4%B1s-sorunu&catid=214&Itemid=915

@Brandon,
So let's talk. You claim that the Chams suffered an ethnic cleansing by the Greeks (and from your point of view you have every right to consider it as such) and that Greece's argument of cham collaboration with enemy armed forces is weak. Well if an undeniable historic fact is weak then so is our argument. We on the other hand believe that when some people commit high treason, turn their guns against their own country and collaborate (the elite of the cham community at least) with enemies that invade and conquer that country and hand over the administration of the region to the Chams, then in that case some consequences are to be expected. If the Chams had remained in Greece, those responsible for war crimes would have faced court-martial and execution or life imprisonment. Would that have been a better development for them? At least in Albania they continued their lives and didn't pay for their crimes. You're gonna say that Napoleon Zervas and his right-wing partizans treated the cham population roughly without making any discriminations and on that i will agree with you, but at the end of the day "the Chams got what they deserved" and that quote is not mine, it's Chris Woodhouse's.
As for the Greeks in Albania being immigrants, i would ask you to stop repeating claims that you know very well that are unfounded.

It shameful to continue to to condone a crime that in today's Jurisprudence is a pure Genocide based on ethnic and religious grounds.
Not only Chams suffered from such terrible organized crimes of humanity from Greek administration with open encouragement and participation of Greek Orthodox Church.

See some crimes committed on real people with names women, children, elderly and the sick for the only reason they belonged to a particular ethnic population.

" Sanie Bollati of Paramithia was burned alive with gasoline, after her breasts were cut off, and her eyes were plucked out."

"In the house of Damin Muhameti, 5 women and 3 children were killed... In the house of Fetin Muhameti, Hane Isufi and another woman were tortured and raped...
In the house of Dule Sherifi, they cut off the heads of 80-year-old Sulejman Dhimicë and his wife. In the house of Meto Braho, 20 persons, including men, women and children, were burned alive... Kije Nurçia, 70 years of age, was knifed to death... In the vineyard of Zule and the garden of Avdyl Nurçe, I saw 20 people who had been massacred. In the house of Haxhi Latifi, the daughter of Haxhi Gulani was raped, while in the dwelling of Mejdi Meto, Hava Ajshja was raped, and Nano Arapi was both raped and killed."
http://www.albanianhistory.net/texts20_3/AH1946.html

@ Ian, UK

I speak only for Romania, since I am Romanian :)
Ian, you may know some things, but UK is faraway from Romania, and you got some info distorted. Let me explain, for the sake of truth.

First, I never heard about a Romanian-Slovakian coordinated recognition of Kosovo, and I am a journalist working in Bucharest, covering the work of the Parliament. I have no idea how this info appeared, but I think is false.
Second, Traian Basescu is not a friend of Russia, he is a big friend of US, and his constant pro-American position has influenced heavily the relation between Russia and Romania (inasmuch that we pay the biggest price for Gazprom gas among European countries, and Basescu is widely criticized by Russian media).
Third, the signification of 2015 is that Basescu's mandate will finish in 2014, November, therefore we will have a new president. The one having the first chance is the current head of the Senate, Crin Antonescu, who is against Kosovo recognition.
As for the recognition of Kosovo, what happened these days is that the Prime-minister Victor Ponta has visited US recently, and tried to outbid Basescu on pro-Americanism, in order to boost his credentials with the Obama administration, and probably he thought that promising them something Basescu was not able to deliver would be a good idea. Actually, is a poor one. There is no interest in Romania for recognizing Kosovo, and US has no need to pressure us in doing this.

What a joke haha...

Albania "wants Greece to recognize Kosovo"

and

Lord Vader requires the Rebel Alliance to surrender.

As for the Greeks in Albania being immigrants, i would ask you to stop repeating claims that you know very well that are unfounded.
(thanasis, 6 November 2013 13:19)
Dear Thanasis you are reading only the pages of the story that you are interested for. I a'm an Albanian landowner in south of Albania befor WWII, and I can assure that Greek emigrants work and live at my lands. Also I can assure that a minority of Greek population live in Albania before 1912. I don't know how and why but they live there. Also we agree that Tcham population suffer an ethnic cleansing! And the ethnic cleansing can never be justified, whatever was the actions that the Elite of Tcham population or all Tcham population has done during WWII. Now we are in 2013, and by the law of God and Man the Tcham population has paid for what "they may have done", and by the law of God and Man they have to get back their properties and rights.Greece is not in war with Albania, Tchams are not in war with Greeks. End of the discussion.

Greeks and Serbs have always maintained themselves by screwing others. Everything these countries say or do point to that direction. Who needs competition anyway?

How about mending our broken relations? How about putting everything behind and start building a common and a better future? Surely, that's what 99, 9% of the albanians, greeks, serbs, and balkan people want. Cut the hateful propaganda and let's make it happen!!

In respond to the comments above, we live in 21 century and this people have to grow up. The greeks have committed genocide and it is bad time that they pay for it. The greeks still live in the past but times have changed and they have to realise that the quicker they do the better it is for them. It takes a man to admit it is wrong but this people don't exist in greece.

Comments made by "proud ALbanians" and "credible experts" selling their idiotic ideas as "history" prove 2 things

1. Their lack of understanding when it comes to the position of albanians in the food chain.
2. The fact that there is no such thing as albanian - greek friendship. What is there is nothing but deep and genuine hate.

We are ready to forget number 1 if land currently occupied by albanians is returned to us. Or else, there will be trouble and you can import as many islamists as you want from turkey or bosnia but we will go to war and you will regret it

Thanasis,
For as much as we argue, our nations have never been closer. If Tcham case is a non issue, then it should not be a problem removing the law of war by the parliament, and allow them to seek their property rights within Greek or EU justice system . Also it would help if Northern Epirus is left alone by Greek nationalist. I admire your patriotism, and that's why I hope you understand my stance. I am guilty of your own sin, loving my country...

(Thoma Brecani, 5 November 2013 15:17)

Have you heard of the massacres of Greeks around the Paramythia region in Epirus and the rounding up of Greek Jews from Ioannina by the Cham Bali Kombetar in 1941-43?

If you don't know WTF I'm talking about you can open some decent history books.Start with British historian Mark Mazower and his book " after the war was over" in which he describes the crimes committed by the Chams and he concludes the goal of the Chams was the "unification of Chameria with Albania".Then you can talk about the Chams.

Leonidas: "Your sources on the above or is it the usual talk of internet cafe?"

Sept 18, 2008: Greece to recognize Kosovo passports. Source B92.

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/region.php?yyyy=2008&mm=09&dd=19&nav_id=53613

It's a two way street.
(Brandon, 5 November 2013 15:33)

No it isn't.Do not try to equate the property rights of the Greek minority with those of the Chams.The Greeks,unlike the Chams,are not accused of any crimes committed against Albanians.The Law of the sea has been ratified by both Greece and Albania so what is the problem?With regard to Kosovo the Greek position remains the same as in 2008.

Thanasis,Leonida
In no way shape or form I claim to be a Historian or a lawyer.Neither I claim to know it all. My point is (and I beleive you got it) that our nations are here, and relations between them are a two-way street. Churchill use to say nations have no friends, only interests. Greece can not further their interest in Albania without compromising with us. Being self-rightous is not a good way to deal with your neighbour. Anyway, good luck to you guys.

(Bulgar of Ohrid, 5 November 2013 13:54)

Have you read the article? If you want to continue with your delusional propaganda visit your kind of poisonous sites like Mina and Mak news.

Far more interesting to me is why Greece still considers itself at war with Albania.
(Nikolle, 5 November 2013 13:40)

Not interesting for me at all since they have problems with Turkey, Macedonia as well. They can consider themselves at war with Albania for as long as they want and we'll just make fun of it. Cheers.

(I don't understand the significance of 2015). But I'm sure as soon as Traian Basescu (Russian loving ex-Soviet) is out of the picture, Romania will recognise Kosovo in a heartbeat.
(Ian, UK, 5 November 2013 13:59)

Well, you already answered your own question. The Romanian presidential elections will be held at the end of 2014 so the issue of Kosovo's recognition can only be brought up in 2015.

Also, let's not forget that by then Romania will almost surely be part of Schengen Area and there won't be anymore restriction of Romanian and Bulgarian workers in the rest of EU so it will be easier to for Ponta to go ahead without facing much opposition.


@Thoma Brecani (I hope you have nothing to do with the likes of Erzen Brecani)

Here's a document that support our claims

http://imgur.com/a/iETtL

(Brandon,

Has it occurred to you that when historians record certain historical events that have taken place they follow a certain methodology based on a number of reliable sources and not on wish full thinking or the chat rooms of Albo Cafes. If Greek migrations had taken place they would have been recorded by historians given the fact that Albanians are relatively new in the Balkans.On the other hand I could provide you with a list of historical sources which show the Greek character of what is today Southern Albania since the ancient times.

Not the first time a thread turns into an origin of Albanians discussion. According to Panajot Barka, who happens to be a Greek activist in Albania, the war law has as of yet, not been revoked. why that is the case, I can only speculate, but it is rather odd that it should still be in place.

The "information" or the so called "article" by a fake newspaper from a country that doesnt exist is an amateurish attempt of bad propaganda

Albania is in no position to state terms to Greece.

There is NO such thing as albanian - Greek friendship.

Greece will not recognize Kosovo and this is the end of the story.

Well, I thought Kosovo was supposed to be a Multi-ethnic Paradise.... Then why is Albanian minister lobbying for Kosovo? Why not for Serbas in Kosovo? They do not want independence. So why Albania is not lobbying against independece for these 'Kosovars'.
Well, maybe Kosovo is an Albanian project after all...
And I thought the West was opposed against nationalism... Very strange and very strange!

Leonidas,
The agreement was dropped in Albanian Supreme Court, and rendered invalid . The Democratic Party that favored it lost parliamentary elections in a land slide.
We (Albanians) consider the removal of Tchams a pure ethnic cleansing. The pretext of collaboration with the Germans it's weak, as the vast majority of them did not participate in the war at all, and some of them fought against Germans. The argument is made even weaker by well documented similar attempts made in Southeastern Albania , previously, by Greek military. Also we consider the Greek minority as previous emigrants that came to earn their bread by working in the lands of large Albanians landowners.
This is our stance. If you want to talk fine, if not , oh well... .

"But please explain to me, in what way does the recycling of the non-existent cham issue by the albanian side promote the greek-albanian relations?"

this is a really interesting opinion. on a fundamental level i agree, going about the past is counter productive, but please do tell me, in what way does the greek government asking that the head of the Albanian Orthodox Church be a greek help relations? or still considering itself at war with said country? or going about the non issue of alleged Northern Epirus? i mean, these are all in the past right? why bring them up? lets look ahead

@Brandon
I agree with you totally. We live in the same region and we're obliged to coexist because noone with a sane mind wants war. But please explain to me, in what way does the recycling of the non-existent cham issue by the albanian side promote the greek-albanian relations? Aren't we supposed to look ahead and not backwards?
@dori tirana
No i'm not, i'm reading the whole book and especially those pages that are unpleasant for my country. But i'm not willing to overlook undeniable historic facts which is the german-cham collaboration and the slaughters of 1943 and the formation of a cham militia that terrorized the local population of Epirus just to become popular among you guys. If you have evidence that such events never took place then by all means bring them forward and prove me wrong.
So an ethnic cleansing can never be justified? That's funny because i've read plenty of albanian comments in this forum where the ethnic cleansing of the Krajna Serbs is considered as perfectly justified since the Serbs turned their guns against Croatia. Nice double standards guys. And by the way the Chams were citizens of Greece, the Krajna Serbs were citizens of Jugoslavia. Their homeland was Jugoslavia, not the neo-ustasa croatian state.

http://www.greeks-albanians.com/eng-m-home

The Cham issue again... Listen well Albania, Ipiros and Thesprotia are Greek and will remain Greek till every last one of us is gone. The Chamides were war criminals and traitors to Greece because they were Greek citizens. They should of stayed and faced their punishment instead of running away like the cowardly scum that they were. They sided with the devil and the price they paid was nothing compared to the price so many innocent Greek families paid. So any politician in Greece that makes any kind of concessions on the issue will be commiting political suicide. Greece will be more than happy to move forward and Greek Albanian relationships have flourished and will continue to do so as long as Albanians stop being unreasonable and making claims on Greek soil. Greece to would like to have all of Asia minor and Istanbul back but we all realise that would be unrealistic and actually wrong after all these years. So hush your mouths and actually try to move forward peacefully and as good neighbors rather than claiming property that belonged to traitors of the Greek nation that should of hung for what they did, betray Greece their country.

For Greece would be detrimental to recognize Kosovo's independence, becaise it would immediately asked the Albanian minority greater rights in Greece. Albanians will not stop until they co-opt a part from Greece and Makrdinije, as they declared independence of Kosovo from Serbia.

Albania wants Greece to recognise Kosovo? I never knew the fundamentalists had a sense of humour.

Ian UK knows sweet FA. He can't even be bothered to back up his opinions with links. Do not take anything he writes seriously because he loves to try and wind others up for fun. The forum here is only used for his own pleasure so don't expect too much from him. That's superior and ignorant brits for you.

@Albanian Islamist

Your nick embodies the worst of the Balkans.

Feel free any time to state your opinion in the center of Athens. And dont forget to wear a tshirt with your nick. You will love the attention you will receive.

The Cham issue again... Listen well Albania, Ipiros and Thesprotia are Greek and will remain Greek till every last one of us is gone. The Chamides were war criminals and traitors to Greece because they were Greek citizens. They should of stayed and faced their punishment instead of running away like the cowardly scum that they were.
(spiro, 8 November 2013 01:35)

There were many greek citizens (non albanians) that colaborated with the Germans, like every country had colaborators. Did they and their families get expelled from Grece? I dont believe so.

Thanasis, the geo-political environment in the Balkans is changing very rapidly. Greece is getting old, and has no friendly neigbors. Further Germany and EU will not bail you out forever.

Next time Turks come there to abuse you, Albanians will not be on your side to fight your war, like they did in 1821.

Daniel Maracineanu,

Your first-hand knowledge is credible and appreciated.

Spiro,
You do realize that neither the friendship nor the free thinking can be imposed by force, do you? Your arrogance is very telling...

So let's talk. You claim that the Chams suffered an ethnic cleansing by the Greeks (and from your point of view you have every right to consider it as such) and that Greece's argument of cham collaboration with enemy armed forces is weak. Well if an undeniable historic fact is weak then so is our argument. We on the other hand believe that when some people commit high treason, turn their guns against their own country and collaborate (the elite of the cham community at least) with enemies that invade and conquer that country and hand over the administration of the region to the Chams, then in that case some consequences are to be expected. If the Chams had remained in Greece, those responsible for war crimes would have faced court-martial and execution or life imprisonment. Would that have been a better development for them? At least in Albania they continued their lives and didn't pay for their crimes. You're gonna say that Napoleon Zervas and his right-wing partizans treated the cham population roughly without making any discriminations and on that i will agree with you, but at the end of the day "the Chams got what they deserved

-- thanasis, your argument is weak. That is why there are courts. You bring the collaborators to court individually and you punish the guilty. You don't go on and kill babies and elders because someone collaborated with the your enemy. Not seeing it this way is pure madness; but madness was the goal, collaboration is the weak justification.

Albania #1.
(Avni, 5 November 2013 22:13)

Aw, that's so cute.

Ian During our facebook conversations you claimed to be objective on the issue however you failed to mention that you frequently write articles on a pro-albanian propaganda site which makes ur comments on a SERBIAN site completely onesided and unreliable.

"They sided with the devil and the price they paid was nothing compared to the price so many innocent Greek families paid."
I agree Spiro, you have the opportunity as a Greek patriot to not accept your country begging to sale their sole to the devil for money (Germany). Otherwise this is called cowardness and the worst act of traitory that you do to your country Greece! However, if it makes you feel better and more patriotic you could carry on spreading your absurd lies.. (with a bit of help from your friends).
The Chams need to get back to their properties and handed back their Greek citizenship.

Spiro
Very nice said moving forward as good neighbors.
However The thing about Chams that you forget to mention is:

The Chams were Greek citizens expelled by Greek Goverment.
Their properties are register in Greece by Greek Government.

So Greece expells its own citizens confiscate their properties and you blame Albania for this?

Ps:
The Chams corporation with nazis is very week claim.
Can you tell us today where do you find nazis in Greece or Albania?

Dear Spiro,
I think you have made a mistake. I accept that some Chams collaborated with Germans, as a lot of Greeks collaborated with Germans too. But you cant say all of Chams collaborated with Germans, thats totallay ridiculus. The majority of them remained neutral while some of the chams fought against nazi Germans. There were christian Chams too, not only muslim who fought against nazis. But the majority of them stayed neutral. Thet greek army expelled ALL of them, simple people, old people,young children, women etc. Do you also consider ALL of them war Criminals ? NO! The Chams that collaborated with germans were killed in public by Enver Hoxha, the rest,( thousands of them) HADNT DONE anything and remained in Albania. Greeks found a chance to expell them.If im right, f.e the Greek Ioannis Rallis was a prime minister of Greece and collaborated with Germans. Did you expell/kill ALL the people of the city/village from which he had origin ? NO ! Because it would be unfair. The same happened with other greeks, nazi collaborators. Your government knows the ruth, and that youre wrong but dont want to accept it !

Firstly, Greece has not been officially at war with Albania since 1971!

I would not count on any Greek recognition, the already hated Greek government would be pretty stupid to be seen to given in to the US and back stab its historic friend and ally Serbia for no gain whatsoever.

Ian, out of all your stupid and inaccurate comments (and thats a long list!) that one about Basescu may well be the worst. Babescu the Communist!? and the Soviet!? he is on record for saying Romania's pro-axis regime should have invaded the USSR to take back Bessarabia he has also attacked Romania's former king for being a "Russian puppet." Doesn't sound too pro-Russian to me?

Anyway, forget 2015, 2014 is the anniversary of the legal incorporation of Northern Epirus into the Greek state only to be illegally handed over to criminal Albanian rule by German and Austria. In 2014 lets restore this Greek land to its rightful owner!

Leonidas: "Your sources on the above or is it the usual talk of internet cafe?"

Sept 18, 2008: Greece to recognize Kosovo passports. Source B92.

[link]
(Sourcer, 5 November 2013 18:47)

This is from the horses mouth:

http://www.mfa.gr/en/blog/greece-bilateral-relations/kosovo/

Danile said, "Ian During our facebook conversations you claimed to be objective on the issue however you failed to mention that you frequently write articles on a pro-albanian propaganda site which makes ur comments on a SERBIAN site completely onesided and unreliable."

Yes, Daniel, and please note that the wanna-be-journalist, roberto from frisco and willi the german, are associates of the young man Ian. The 3 of them have a pathological obsession with Serbia that sure does leave them without objectivity.

Also, please do an internet search on Danilo aka Doot.