"Prayer for repose" of Serbian government, parliament
A high-ranking dignitary of the Serbian Orthodox Church (SPC) on Friday served moleban and said "a prayer for the repose" of the government and parliament.
Grow up.
(Peggy, 11 May 2013 08:08)
Just answer the question, provide a link that what you say actually happened. Frankly I do not believe it.
As far as the US having no national religion that stands. You have a huge % of the population that identify as Christian, either catholic or any one of the numerous and vastly different protestant sects that do not follow any one set of leaders.
You can interpret kneeling at a coffin any way you wish, I see it as a sign of respect for a world leader known for his humanitarian mission. However, eventhough I have never heard of Pope John Paul using the term satan in reference to Serbia, I have heard numerous others.
“US has no national religion” I’d day go back to texts books and learn a little from your history because with the exception of JFK all US Presidents were of a Protestant background.
But until now I had no idea the Serbian orthodox church was also took in the Muslims that live in Serbia or the Catholics or other denominations.
John Paul 11 was a servant of the west. You do recall both Clinton and Bush senior knelt in front of his coffin. To many this would have passed over their heads and interpreted it as paying respect to “a great man”. No, it’s a very old tradition where masters pay their last respects to a faithful servant.
“Pope John Paul called for the death of anyone” I watched it on TV so don’t tell me it did not happen. He called for Clinton to destroy Satan and in the context of the news story it means the Serbs. However, when his Croats attacked their allies the Boaniaks he called for peace.
The Catholic Church has shown it to be nothing but an organisation bent on holding power. It has hidden for decades if not centuries paedophile priests and your te4lling me about their piety – please I have seen their work and it sickens me to the core.
sj with those sect like groups anything is possible - we can only compare the Orthodox church with mainstream religion in other countries, or its not a fair comparison. For example although David Koresh's sect was supposedly a branch of Christianity, one can't really point to such extreme examples.
It depends how you define influence re catholic church - has the catholic church lost trust? Yes. Does an undermining of trust lead to less people coming through the doors of church? Probably. One cannot deny such things when they are not only whispered in communities, but appear splashed all over the newspapers. Does that lead to lessened influence? In countries where such things occur (are reported on) - yes. However, is the catholic church expanding into less developed countries to take up the slack? Yes.
Olli - I take your point on abortion which is a central issue both in the US and of the catholic church (who knows why when there are more important issues like poverty). However, again I'm not sure its a fair comparison - perhaps a similar one would be the Archbishop of York attacking David Cameron for his policy on Northern Ireland - although Kosovo is obviously much more important for the Serb Orthodox Church.
sj,
Once again you are not even close in your comparisons. The US has no national religion so comparing what some rogue religious leaders may say to what the leaders of Serbian national religion (the whole reason for the fight for Kosovo remember the cradle of the Serbian religion) is ludicrous.
I would like a link to this so called televised request that Pope John Paul supposedly made. I am not Catholic but I do not believe that Pope John Paul called for the death of anyone, completely contrary to his nature. For you the link should be easy, I myself cannot find it.
You wrote: "In the absence of an official US church do senior catholic church members in the US publicly attack the US President and administration?"
USA Catholic Church attacked heavily Obama and his government in opposing the same-sex civil union laws.
The Bishop of Shrewsbury, of the Catholic Church of England and Wales, Mark Davies, attacked David Cameron's government for its actions to legalise same-sex marriage, comparing it to the way Nazis tried to undermine religion.
Have you seen some of the religious zealot groups in the US who supported George Bush or did you hear when one of their leaders called for the US to assassinate Hugo Chavez? If you call that neutral then I’ll give the game away. When the Bosnian was in full flight you have Pope John Paul 2 asking Bill Clinton in front of the camera when is he going to “kill Satan”?
Yeah the Serbian Orthodox Church will lose influence. You have the Catholic Church embroiled in child sexual abuse – breach of trust - and has it lost influence? No it has not mate.
sj what is the official religion of the US if one can use that word? The official religion in Serbia is Orthodox, as you know. In the absence of an official US church do senior catholic church members in the US publicly attack the US President and administration?
In public most churches do hold a neutral position on the government of the day, there is nothing strange about that. We can talk about the position of the Orthodox church under Communism or Milosevic...
As for minor religions and sects, nobody cares what they say and as 'unofficial' religions with less power they receive less benefits.
The Serbian Orthodox Church is shooting itself in the foot and if anything in private meetings with the Serbian government and will end up losing more influence. Further, there is nothing the church can do to shake the government, it would be extremely naive to think otherwise.
Your naivety on this issue is surprising to say the least. Churches around the world are natural??????? Please where did you get this one from? The Catholic Church moves and shakes behind closed doors, the various religious organisations in the US elect Presidents and you say that the Church is neutral and can only lose ageist the government. But feel free to tell the American church groups to stay out of politics.
The Serbian Orthodox Church is shaking this coalition government in Belgrade to the core.
According to my English dictionary the word "repose" can mean "to place (confidence, trust, etc.) in a person or thing. Lat. reponere, to replace.
Therefore, perhaps Metropolitan Amfilohije was praying for the (Latin reponere) "to replace the government of the day" because there is no longer trust or confidence in it. Nothing wrong with this in a democratic free speaking society, or is it!!
The Serbian Orthodox Church and Metropolitan Amfilohije have done far too little, far too late, but I do appreciate the gesture made by Metroplitan Amfilohije for the Kosovo and Metohija Serbs and for the Serbian diaspora because many remember just how many Serbian Kosovo heros with their families that Amfilohije has buried. Also, a prayer for our monasteries and churches on Kosovo and Metohija which could end up as Albanian Shrines. The Serbian diaspora has no news of what will become of our spiritual heritiage, of our Serbian Orthodox Gracanica, of our Serbian Orthodox Decani, of our Serbian Orthodox Pecka Patriarsija and all the other Serbian Orthodox monasteries and churches in Kosovo and Metohija. Will they now be Albanian Shrines. The Serbian nation, the Serbian diaspora has a right to know. Mr. Zivica Tucic says that "A prayer for the repose can only be said for those who are no longer living". Mr. Tucic, I can say and feel that all of Serbia and that should include the government; and its diaspora are "feeling dead" over this Brussels-Belgrade-Pristina dialogue-agreement.
Spotted the difference, 10 May 2013 20:57)
Maybe you should reread your post and think real hard. It was followers that performed those acts, just as your religious leaders rely on followers like you to perform their sacrifice.
So the question to you., who bares more guilt those who have been brainwashed into thinking they are fulfilling the will of GOD or those in a position of leadership who condone, promote, and convince others it is their duty to God to commit evil?
Churches are burned, graveyards vandalized and Serbs harassed when they visit religious sites, all in Kosovo. It's about time somebody voiced a little outrage about this and the silence from Belgrade.
Quite frankly, I am a fan of Ossama Ben Ladden. There are some Muslim nations that are good. For example, Palestine, Libya, Iran, Iraq, etc.
I rejoice American misery and destruction. What goes around comes around. I am waiting for the continuation..... Ossama II.
To be honest if they try to take on the government the church can only lose. Churches around the world usually have a neutral position concerning the government of the day for good reason - self interest. The purse strings can be tightened, members of the clergy can be prosecuted more easily - losing their status as 'protected' members of society, privileges can be removed etc. In the end somebody in the government might be so spiteful as to negotiate away church land in Kosovo. People are petty after all and things like that happen.
It would be wiser if the church opposes the touted negotiations / agreement, rather than personally attacking the government - which is not the place of the clergy in any case, unless one lives in a theocracy.
Azir your banal comment is barely worthy of comment but here goes. I've never heard of a Serbian Orthodox priest flying an airliner into a building, strapping a bomb to himself and blowing up innocent victims, carrying a rucksack full of explosives onto public service vehicle and detonating it or bombing a marathon. This would seem to be normal acceptable behaviour for a follower of Osama B. Laden. So there's your difference
I don't think in a 'normal' state you HAVE a religious leader perverting religious ceremony for political goals, especially not in a way that could be construed as an intimation of threat.
(Danilo, 10 May 2013 15:53)
You don't think Iran, Egypt and similar countries are 'normal states'?
"(PM Ivica) Dačić says he's in favor of the worldly politics, he's not interested in the celestial, thus also spoke (assassinated PM Zoran) Đinđić - and let God be the judge of how he ended up," Atanasije was quoted as saying.
Nice. It expresses clearly what kind of loving and caring people these 'religious leaders' in Serbia are. I thought only Muslims leaders are famous for their 'fatwas' - until now. The peace-loving religion of Islam and the Serbian Orthodox Church are very similar with their meddling into politics.
Diogenes, indeed, and He as the Great Judge will ask each and everyone who abused religion for politics exactly why he/she perverted Jesus message and even called for murder because he did not like the political outcome.
Shall we send Samo Sloga Srbina Spasava to history? Did it ever mean anything?
I watch Serbs who supported Miloshevic politics walking past the demonstration with indifference in their eyes. I also watch Serbian Church spreading its BS Christian message. Both make me very sad.
I really don't understand what this government expects? They lied and back stabbed Serbs. They sold out and became traitors. Listen to their initial rhetoric and now hear what they say. Albanians are more important than Serbs in our holy land. They are allowing known terrorists, drug traffickers, organ traders and people kidnappers to rule our church?
I really don't understand what some would trade just to get into power.
Dan,merika,and the rest ... It ,appears that the Christian Clergy are reminding us all that one day, we all will end up before "Great and Terrible Judge"...(What they said reminds me that I have to be careful of my actions )even in ur religion of islam u understand this...they said the prayers as civilians and they can do that.
A prayer of repose for living people? I would call this an act of sedition and a call to murder to members of the governments. The fact that they mentioned Djindic just emphasizes it and don't leave any other room to interpret this. At least, you can see from the numbers of protesters which was around 2000-3000 that the people are fed up with them
I don't think in a 'normal' state you HAVE a religious leader perverting religious ceremony for political goals, especially not in a way that could be construed as an intimation of threat.
When is the Serbian Orthodox Church going to deal with this? WHY isn't the Serbian media reporting ANYTHING about this? Just like the Catholic Church covering up their priests, the Serbian Church is sweeping under the rug their problems.
I really don't understand what this government expects? They lied and back stabbed Serbs. They sold out and became traitors. Listen to their initial rhetoric and now hear what they say. Albanians are more important than Serbs in our holy land. They are allowing known terrorists, drug traffickers, organ traders and people kidnappers to rule our church?
I really don't understand what some would trade just to get into power.
When is the Serbian Orthodox Church going to deal with this? WHY isn't the Serbian media reporting ANYTHING about this? Just like the Catholic Church covering up their priests, the Serbian Church is sweeping under the rug their problems.
A prayer of repose for living people? I would call this an act of sedition and a call to murder to members of the governments. The fact that they mentioned Djindic just emphasizes it and don't leave any other room to interpret this. At least, you can see from the numbers of protesters which was around 2000-3000 that the people are fed up with them
Azir your banal comment is barely worthy of comment but here goes. I've never heard of a Serbian Orthodox priest flying an airliner into a building, strapping a bomb to himself and blowing up innocent victims, carrying a rucksack full of explosives onto public service vehicle and detonating it or bombing a marathon. This would seem to be normal acceptable behaviour for a follower of Osama B. Laden. So there's your difference
Dan,merika,and the rest ... It ,appears that the Christian Clergy are reminding us all that one day, we all will end up before "Great and Terrible Judge"...(What they said reminds me that I have to be careful of my actions )even in ur religion of islam u understand this...they said the prayers as civilians and they can do that.
I don't think in a 'normal' state you HAVE a religious leader perverting religious ceremony for political goals, especially not in a way that could be construed as an intimation of threat.
"(PM Ivica) Dačić says he's in favor of the worldly politics, he's not interested in the celestial, thus also spoke (assassinated PM Zoran) Đinđić - and let God be the judge of how he ended up," Atanasije was quoted as saying.
Nice. It expresses clearly what kind of loving and caring people these 'religious leaders' in Serbia are. I thought only Muslims leaders are famous for their 'fatwas' - until now. The peace-loving religion of Islam and the Serbian Orthodox Church are very similar with their meddling into politics.
Churches are burned, graveyards vandalized and Serbs harassed when they visit religious sites, all in Kosovo. It's about time somebody voiced a little outrage about this and the silence from Belgrade.
Shall we send Samo Sloga Srbina Spasava to history? Did it ever mean anything?
I watch Serbs who supported Miloshevic politics walking past the demonstration with indifference in their eyes. I also watch Serbian Church spreading its BS Christian message. Both make me very sad.
To be honest if they try to take on the government the church can only lose. Churches around the world usually have a neutral position concerning the government of the day for good reason - self interest. The purse strings can be tightened, members of the clergy can be prosecuted more easily - losing their status as 'protected' members of society, privileges can be removed etc. In the end somebody in the government might be so spiteful as to negotiate away church land in Kosovo. People are petty after all and things like that happen.
It would be wiser if the church opposes the touted negotiations / agreement, rather than personally attacking the government - which is not the place of the clergy in any case, unless one lives in a theocracy.
According to my English dictionary the word "repose" can mean "to place (confidence, trust, etc.) in a person or thing. Lat. reponere, to replace.
Therefore, perhaps Metropolitan Amfilohije was praying for the (Latin reponere) "to replace the government of the day" because there is no longer trust or confidence in it. Nothing wrong with this in a democratic free speaking society, or is it!!
The Serbian Orthodox Church and Metropolitan Amfilohije have done far too little, far too late, but I do appreciate the gesture made by Metroplitan Amfilohije for the Kosovo and Metohija Serbs and for the Serbian diaspora because many remember just how many Serbian Kosovo heros with their families that Amfilohije has buried. Also, a prayer for our monasteries and churches on Kosovo and Metohija which could end up as Albanian Shrines. The Serbian diaspora has no news of what will become of our spiritual heritiage, of our Serbian Orthodox Gracanica, of our Serbian Orthodox Decani, of our Serbian Orthodox Pecka Patriarsija and all the other Serbian Orthodox monasteries and churches in Kosovo and Metohija. Will they now be Albanian Shrines. The Serbian nation, the Serbian diaspora has a right to know. Mr. Zivica Tucic says that "A prayer for the repose can only be said for those who are no longer living". Mr. Tucic, I can say and feel that all of Serbia and that should include the government; and its diaspora are "feeling dead" over this Brussels-Belgrade-Pristina dialogue-agreement.
Quite frankly, I am a fan of Ossama Ben Ladden. There are some Muslim nations that are good. For example, Palestine, Libya, Iran, Iraq, etc.
I rejoice American misery and destruction. What goes around comes around. I am waiting for the continuation..... Ossama II.
Diogenes, indeed, and He as the Great Judge will ask each and everyone who abused religion for politics exactly why he/she perverted Jesus message and even called for murder because he did not like the political outcome.
I don't think in a 'normal' state you HAVE a religious leader perverting religious ceremony for political goals, especially not in a way that could be construed as an intimation of threat.
(Danilo, 10 May 2013 15:53)
You don't think Iran, Egypt and similar countries are 'normal states'?
Your naivety on this issue is surprising to say the least. Churches around the world are natural??????? Please where did you get this one from? The Catholic Church moves and shakes behind closed doors, the various religious organisations in the US elect Presidents and you say that the Church is neutral and can only lose ageist the government. But feel free to tell the American church groups to stay out of politics.
The Serbian Orthodox Church is shaking this coalition government in Belgrade to the core.
sj what is the official religion of the US if one can use that word? The official religion in Serbia is Orthodox, as you know. In the absence of an official US church do senior catholic church members in the US publicly attack the US President and administration?
In public most churches do hold a neutral position on the government of the day, there is nothing strange about that. We can talk about the position of the Orthodox church under Communism or Milosevic...
As for minor religions and sects, nobody cares what they say and as 'unofficial' religions with less power they receive less benefits.
The Serbian Orthodox Church is shooting itself in the foot and if anything in private meetings with the Serbian government and will end up losing more influence. Further, there is nothing the church can do to shake the government, it would be extremely naive to think otherwise.
Have you seen some of the religious zealot groups in the US who supported George Bush or did you hear when one of their leaders called for the US to assassinate Hugo Chavez? If you call that neutral then I’ll give the game away. When the Bosnian was in full flight you have Pope John Paul 2 asking Bill Clinton in front of the camera when is he going to “kill Satan”?
Yeah the Serbian Orthodox Church will lose influence. You have the Catholic Church embroiled in child sexual abuse – breach of trust - and has it lost influence? No it has not mate.
sj,
Once again you are not even close in your comparisons. The US has no national religion so comparing what some rogue religious leaders may say to what the leaders of Serbian national religion (the whole reason for the fight for Kosovo remember the cradle of the Serbian religion) is ludicrous.
I would like a link to this so called televised request that Pope John Paul supposedly made. I am not Catholic but I do not believe that Pope John Paul called for the death of anyone, completely contrary to his nature. For you the link should be easy, I myself cannot find it.
sj with those sect like groups anything is possible - we can only compare the Orthodox church with mainstream religion in other countries, or its not a fair comparison. For example although David Koresh's sect was supposedly a branch of Christianity, one can't really point to such extreme examples.
It depends how you define influence re catholic church - has the catholic church lost trust? Yes. Does an undermining of trust lead to less people coming through the doors of church? Probably. One cannot deny such things when they are not only whispered in communities, but appear splashed all over the newspapers. Does that lead to lessened influence? In countries where such things occur (are reported on) - yes. However, is the catholic church expanding into less developed countries to take up the slack? Yes.
Olli - I take your point on abortion which is a central issue both in the US and of the catholic church (who knows why when there are more important issues like poverty). However, again I'm not sure its a fair comparison - perhaps a similar one would be the Archbishop of York attacking David Cameron for his policy on Northern Ireland - although Kosovo is obviously much more important for the Serb Orthodox Church.
Spotted the difference, 10 May 2013 20:57)
Maybe you should reread your post and think real hard. It was followers that performed those acts, just as your religious leaders rely on followers like you to perform their sacrifice.
So the question to you., who bares more guilt those who have been brainwashed into thinking they are fulfilling the will of GOD or those in a position of leadership who condone, promote, and convince others it is their duty to God to commit evil?
You wrote: "In the absence of an official US church do senior catholic church members in the US publicly attack the US President and administration?"
USA Catholic Church attacked heavily Obama and his government in opposing the same-sex civil union laws.
The Bishop of Shrewsbury, of the Catholic Church of England and Wales, Mark Davies, attacked David Cameron's government for its actions to legalise same-sex marriage, comparing it to the way Nazis tried to undermine religion.
“US has no national religion” I’d day go back to texts books and learn a little from your history because with the exception of JFK all US Presidents were of a Protestant background.
But until now I had no idea the Serbian orthodox church was also took in the Muslims that live in Serbia or the Catholics or other denominations.
John Paul 11 was a servant of the west. You do recall both Clinton and Bush senior knelt in front of his coffin. To many this would have passed over their heads and interpreted it as paying respect to “a great man”. No, it’s a very old tradition where masters pay their last respects to a faithful servant.
“Pope John Paul called for the death of anyone” I watched it on TV so don’t tell me it did not happen. He called for Clinton to destroy Satan and in the context of the news story it means the Serbs. However, when his Croats attacked their allies the Boaniaks he called for peace.
The Catholic Church has shown it to be nothing but an organisation bent on holding power. It has hidden for decades if not centuries paedophile priests and your te4lling me about their piety – please I have seen their work and it sickens me to the core.
Grow up.
(Peggy, 11 May 2013 08:08)
Just answer the question, provide a link that what you say actually happened. Frankly I do not believe it.
As far as the US having no national religion that stands. You have a huge % of the population that identify as Christian, either catholic or any one of the numerous and vastly different protestant sects that do not follow any one set of leaders.
You can interpret kneeling at a coffin any way you wish, I see it as a sign of respect for a world leader known for his humanitarian mission. However, eventhough I have never heard of Pope John Paul using the term satan in reference to Serbia, I have heard numerous others.
When is the Serbian Orthodox Church going to deal with this? WHY isn't the Serbian media reporting ANYTHING about this? Just like the Catholic Church covering up their priests, the Serbian Church is sweeping under the rug their problems.
I really don't understand what this government expects? They lied and back stabbed Serbs. They sold out and became traitors. Listen to their initial rhetoric and now hear what they say. Albanians are more important than Serbs in our holy land. They are allowing known terrorists, drug traffickers, organ traders and people kidnappers to rule our church?
I really don't understand what some would trade just to get into power.
"(PM Ivica) Dačić says he's in favor of the worldly politics, he's not interested in the celestial, thus also spoke (assassinated PM Zoran) Đinđić - and let God be the judge of how he ended up," Atanasije was quoted as saying.
Nice. It expresses clearly what kind of loving and caring people these 'religious leaders' in Serbia are. I thought only Muslims leaders are famous for their 'fatwas' - until now. The peace-loving religion of Islam and the Serbian Orthodox Church are very similar with their meddling into politics.
Quite frankly, I am a fan of Ossama Ben Ladden. There are some Muslim nations that are good. For example, Palestine, Libya, Iran, Iraq, etc.
I rejoice American misery and destruction. What goes around comes around. I am waiting for the continuation..... Ossama II.
A prayer of repose for living people? I would call this an act of sedition and a call to murder to members of the governments. The fact that they mentioned Djindic just emphasizes it and don't leave any other room to interpret this. At least, you can see from the numbers of protesters which was around 2000-3000 that the people are fed up with them
Dan,merika,and the rest ... It ,appears that the Christian Clergy are reminding us all that one day, we all will end up before "Great and Terrible Judge"...(What they said reminds me that I have to be careful of my actions )even in ur religion of islam u understand this...they said the prayers as civilians and they can do that.
Shall we send Samo Sloga Srbina Spasava to history? Did it ever mean anything?
I watch Serbs who supported Miloshevic politics walking past the demonstration with indifference in their eyes. I also watch Serbian Church spreading its BS Christian message. Both make me very sad.
Azir your banal comment is barely worthy of comment but here goes. I've never heard of a Serbian Orthodox priest flying an airliner into a building, strapping a bomb to himself and blowing up innocent victims, carrying a rucksack full of explosives onto public service vehicle and detonating it or bombing a marathon. This would seem to be normal acceptable behaviour for a follower of Osama B. Laden. So there's your difference
I don't think in a 'normal' state you HAVE a religious leader perverting religious ceremony for political goals, especially not in a way that could be construed as an intimation of threat.
Diogenes, indeed, and He as the Great Judge will ask each and everyone who abused religion for politics exactly why he/she perverted Jesus message and even called for murder because he did not like the political outcome.
To be honest if they try to take on the government the church can only lose. Churches around the world usually have a neutral position concerning the government of the day for good reason - self interest. The purse strings can be tightened, members of the clergy can be prosecuted more easily - losing their status as 'protected' members of society, privileges can be removed etc. In the end somebody in the government might be so spiteful as to negotiate away church land in Kosovo. People are petty after all and things like that happen.
It would be wiser if the church opposes the touted negotiations / agreement, rather than personally attacking the government - which is not the place of the clergy in any case, unless one lives in a theocracy.
I don't think in a 'normal' state you HAVE a religious leader perverting religious ceremony for political goals, especially not in a way that could be construed as an intimation of threat.
(Danilo, 10 May 2013 15:53)
You don't think Iran, Egypt and similar countries are 'normal states'?
According to my English dictionary the word "repose" can mean "to place (confidence, trust, etc.) in a person or thing. Lat. reponere, to replace.
Therefore, perhaps Metropolitan Amfilohije was praying for the (Latin reponere) "to replace the government of the day" because there is no longer trust or confidence in it. Nothing wrong with this in a democratic free speaking society, or is it!!
The Serbian Orthodox Church and Metropolitan Amfilohije have done far too little, far too late, but I do appreciate the gesture made by Metroplitan Amfilohije for the Kosovo and Metohija Serbs and for the Serbian diaspora because many remember just how many Serbian Kosovo heros with their families that Amfilohije has buried. Also, a prayer for our monasteries and churches on Kosovo and Metohija which could end up as Albanian Shrines. The Serbian diaspora has no news of what will become of our spiritual heritiage, of our Serbian Orthodox Gracanica, of our Serbian Orthodox Decani, of our Serbian Orthodox Pecka Patriarsija and all the other Serbian Orthodox monasteries and churches in Kosovo and Metohija. Will they now be Albanian Shrines. The Serbian nation, the Serbian diaspora has a right to know. Mr. Zivica Tucic says that "A prayer for the repose can only be said for those who are no longer living". Mr. Tucic, I can say and feel that all of Serbia and that should include the government; and its diaspora are "feeling dead" over this Brussels-Belgrade-Pristina dialogue-agreement.
Churches are burned, graveyards vandalized and Serbs harassed when they visit religious sites, all in Kosovo. It's about time somebody voiced a little outrage about this and the silence from Belgrade.
Your naivety on this issue is surprising to say the least. Churches around the world are natural??????? Please where did you get this one from? The Catholic Church moves and shakes behind closed doors, the various religious organisations in the US elect Presidents and you say that the Church is neutral and can only lose ageist the government. But feel free to tell the American church groups to stay out of politics.
The Serbian Orthodox Church is shaking this coalition government in Belgrade to the core.
sj with those sect like groups anything is possible - we can only compare the Orthodox church with mainstream religion in other countries, or its not a fair comparison. For example although David Koresh's sect was supposedly a branch of Christianity, one can't really point to such extreme examples.
It depends how you define influence re catholic church - has the catholic church lost trust? Yes. Does an undermining of trust lead to less people coming through the doors of church? Probably. One cannot deny such things when they are not only whispered in communities, but appear splashed all over the newspapers. Does that lead to lessened influence? In countries where such things occur (are reported on) - yes. However, is the catholic church expanding into less developed countries to take up the slack? Yes.
Olli - I take your point on abortion which is a central issue both in the US and of the catholic church (who knows why when there are more important issues like poverty). However, again I'm not sure its a fair comparison - perhaps a similar one would be the Archbishop of York attacking David Cameron for his policy on Northern Ireland - although Kosovo is obviously much more important for the Serb Orthodox Church.
sj what is the official religion of the US if one can use that word? The official religion in Serbia is Orthodox, as you know. In the absence of an official US church do senior catholic church members in the US publicly attack the US President and administration?
In public most churches do hold a neutral position on the government of the day, there is nothing strange about that. We can talk about the position of the Orthodox church under Communism or Milosevic...
As for minor religions and sects, nobody cares what they say and as 'unofficial' religions with less power they receive less benefits.
The Serbian Orthodox Church is shooting itself in the foot and if anything in private meetings with the Serbian government and will end up losing more influence. Further, there is nothing the church can do to shake the government, it would be extremely naive to think otherwise.
sj,
Once again you are not even close in your comparisons. The US has no national religion so comparing what some rogue religious leaders may say to what the leaders of Serbian national religion (the whole reason for the fight for Kosovo remember the cradle of the Serbian religion) is ludicrous.
I would like a link to this so called televised request that Pope John Paul supposedly made. I am not Catholic but I do not believe that Pope John Paul called for the death of anyone, completely contrary to his nature. For you the link should be easy, I myself cannot find it.
You wrote: "In the absence of an official US church do senior catholic church members in the US publicly attack the US President and administration?"
USA Catholic Church attacked heavily Obama and his government in opposing the same-sex civil union laws.
The Bishop of Shrewsbury, of the Catholic Church of England and Wales, Mark Davies, attacked David Cameron's government for its actions to legalise same-sex marriage, comparing it to the way Nazis tried to undermine religion.
“US has no national religion” I’d day go back to texts books and learn a little from your history because with the exception of JFK all US Presidents were of a Protestant background.
But until now I had no idea the Serbian orthodox church was also took in the Muslims that live in Serbia or the Catholics or other denominations.
John Paul 11 was a servant of the west. You do recall both Clinton and Bush senior knelt in front of his coffin. To many this would have passed over their heads and interpreted it as paying respect to “a great man”. No, it’s a very old tradition where masters pay their last respects to a faithful servant.
“Pope John Paul called for the death of anyone” I watched it on TV so don’t tell me it did not happen. He called for Clinton to destroy Satan and in the context of the news story it means the Serbs. However, when his Croats attacked their allies the Boaniaks he called for peace.
The Catholic Church has shown it to be nothing but an organisation bent on holding power. It has hidden for decades if not centuries paedophile priests and your te4lling me about their piety – please I have seen their work and it sickens me to the core.
Spotted the difference, 10 May 2013 20:57)
Maybe you should reread your post and think real hard. It was followers that performed those acts, just as your religious leaders rely on followers like you to perform their sacrifice.
So the question to you., who bares more guilt those who have been brainwashed into thinking they are fulfilling the will of GOD or those in a position of leadership who condone, promote, and convince others it is their duty to God to commit evil?
Have you seen some of the religious zealot groups in the US who supported George Bush or did you hear when one of their leaders called for the US to assassinate Hugo Chavez? If you call that neutral then I’ll give the game away. When the Bosnian was in full flight you have Pope John Paul 2 asking Bill Clinton in front of the camera when is he going to “kill Satan”?
Yeah the Serbian Orthodox Church will lose influence. You have the Catholic Church embroiled in child sexual abuse – breach of trust - and has it lost influence? No it has not mate.
Grow up.
(Peggy, 11 May 2013 08:08)
Just answer the question, provide a link that what you say actually happened. Frankly I do not believe it.
As far as the US having no national religion that stands. You have a huge % of the population that identify as Christian, either catholic or any one of the numerous and vastly different protestant sects that do not follow any one set of leaders.
You can interpret kneeling at a coffin any way you wish, I see it as a sign of respect for a world leader known for his humanitarian mission. However, eventhough I have never heard of Pope John Paul using the term satan in reference to Serbia, I have heard numerous others.
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