"We're not paying for Europe with Kosovo"

Well Kosovo will not be Serbia so it ias better for you to win EU membershit rather than losing everything. Kosovo got a goverment, and is recognized by 65 countrys so there is no chance for Serbia to occupy Kosovo again. And don't forget that there are 2 million albanians living in Kosovo and they opposes everything that is serbian.

So how are you going to give up Eu for Kosovo when Kosovo is impossible to re-occupy ??


Serbia can forget about Kosovo as long as 2 million albanians live there. When the albanians leave Kosovo as Milosevic trye'd to make it reality back in 98-99 then maybee Serbia can occupy that land of albanians again.


Today even military strengh cannot help Serbia. Albanians are to strong.

Demi

1. Kosovo does not have a "government". It has interim institutions that are controlled by the West.

2. Yes, 65 countries have recognised Kosovo. HOWEVER, this accounts for 1/3 of UN members. It's a poor result given that you embarked on your Mickey Mouse adventure two years ago.

3. If Serbia does not get into the EU then where does that leave Kosovo? Please don't tell me that you'll get into the EU without Serbia as this is utter nonsense.

4."Today even military strengh cannot help Serbia. Albanians are to strong." This comment is, I assume, some kind of joke?

Let me put the "Kosova/o Serbia's issue in this way. Does Serbia really think that Europe is prepared to accept in its ranks a country which Serbia has got territorial/sovereignity issues?
Don't be naive! It is very clear there will there will be no EU or NATO for Serbia without "solving" the Kosova/o "issue" first.

You WILL pay with Kosovo, you must. They created it, period.

More interesting, what will you get? Look at Greece spain and Portugal for a clue. But it will be worse still, these countries where never bombed raped, torned apart and occupied by Germany & Co. Now, how stupid can someone get? They did this in the 20:th century and are doing it still.

Move on Serbia, get rid of the backwards puppet regime and Go East!

I think the albanians at this forum are missing the bigger picture. By refusing to recognize Kosovo a future option will be to partition the territory along ethinc lines. Albanians don't want to be ruled by Serbs and vice versa. The main issue is Bosnia and Republica Srpska. Later on if the ICJ rules in Serbias favour over Kosovo and still looses parts of Kosovo then it will use that leverage in Bosnia. If international law can be broken in Kosovo the same will apply to Bosnia. If Albanians in Kosovo demand their right to chose so will the Serbs in Bosnia. It will ultimately be imposible for the world to deny a right to one people but not the other. Have to say that the Serbian leadership is playing the international community very well. Time is definately on Serbias side.

Well Kosovo will not be Serbia so it ias better for you to win EU membershit rather than losing everything. Kosovo got a goverment, and is recognized by 65 countrys so there is no chance for Serbia to occupy Kosovo again. And don't forget that there are 2 million albanians living in Kosovo and they opposes everything that is serbian.

(Demi, 21 February 2010 11:50)

Oppose everything that is Serbian ...... with views like that, then I pity the K-Serbs, especially those south of the Ibar.

Today even military strengh cannot help Serbia. Albanians are to strong.
(Demi, 21 February 2010 11:50)

Huge problem in Albanians today. They never do any research:

Today even military strengh cannot help Serbia. Albanians are to strong.
(Demi, 21 February 2010 11:50)


huge problems with Albanians these days. They never do any research:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Serbian_Land_Forces

Your two load bearing pillars (US n EU) are about to fall.. its over... You lose

1. You can call it what you want because you don't recognize Kosovo (I respect that) but there is a goverment in Prishtina controled by representatives of the 2 million population in Kosovo. 65 country and more recognize this goverment and that number isn't small. Big world leaders have visited this goverment and have ties to our President and Prime.

2. 65 recognition of Kosovo will no disapear. It is 1/3 of the UN members but after only two years that number is acceptable. I would say a very good number if you compare to other nations when they got independent. But anyway this 65 % countrys is powerful countrys and the ones that count. Serbia can have it's poor countrys on their side for now.


3. Serbia needs EU more than Kosovo. Kosovo is not ready to get Eu membership but Serbia is. That means Kosovo can wait until Serbia get's it's membership. But if Serbia dosen't recognize Kosovo Serbia will not be a member of EU and we all know that. But you can allways stay with Russia your closest friend :)


4. Well my comment about the serbian military is no joke at all. Did Serbia succed to military control Kosovo back in 1999 ? No Serbia failed and would have failed even if Nato wouldent intervene. Albanians will never give up Kosovo and there is no military in the world that can change that. Kosovo would only be a warzone for decades to come if Serbia would try militarly to occupy Kosovo. EU and US dosen't want that and not even Russia. How should Serbia occupy Kosovo then ?
(Demi, 21 February 2010 15:44)

1. Some of countries who recognized Kosovo under US pressure - don't established real diplomatic relations (e.g. Poland, who don't establish embassy in Kosovo).

2. Fortunately - in the World - money is not all. Mayby USA or Germany have lot of money - but these money can't give real recognition for illegal state.

3. If Kosovo don't need EU - so why they need EU money?? EU financed 15-20% of Kosovo budget. If not this money - Thaci "government" will collapce very quickly.

4. In 1999 - UCK was nearly defeated by yugoslav military. Only US intervention saved terrorists.

So i love how some people are saying that serbia cant join the eu because it has a problem with its border.This is great news for serbia because this will also apply to kosovo and will leave no other choice to the albanians but for new status talks. Common sense kosovo can never join the eu as long as serbia doesnt recognize it!

Demi

a report on Euronews(UK) said many K-Albanians have applied for Serbian passports so they can get the benifits from visa free travel etc. Your point on the KLA beating the Serb army well not true thats why NATO got involved, it was alleged that the Serb army was slaughtering the Albanians. The real reason for NATO to join the war was to get control, 2 areas which have the highest risk from Islamic militants were/are Kosovo and Bosnia both now under west control. 65 countries in 2 years is poor, in reality the only country which s important to recognise Kosovo is Serbia without there recognition Kosovo will not move forward it will remain a frozen conflict. The US and EU won't back roll Kosovo forever.

Do we really want Kosovo or Albania in the EU? Look at Turkey, if you were christian then yes.

"How many hours it took VJ to run away from NATO?" (Mirub Jager)

-- Well, knowing that my counry bombed Serbia for 78 days, and there are 24 hours in a day, my calculations estimate that it took 1872 hours for VJ to withdraw ("run away" isn't really an appropriate interpretation since VJ was still in Kosovo when the Kumanovo Agreement was signed). Regardless of the past-tense verb used, that's about 1800 more hours than NATO officials originally estimated. Now, not to flex one's....ahem...history, tell me Mirub, how many hours did the KLA last against VJ until they needed NATO intervention?

Are you joing are what albanians all left in 99 you all ran away and then nato came to help because you were done in 2 weeks.( gajo, 21 February 2010 17:14)

If you are saying what I think you are then answer this. And since VJ was such an almighty army. How many hours it took VJ to run away from NATO?
(Mirub Jager, 22 February 2010 00:25)

Wow, you are really misinformed. The VJ was largely untouched after 78 days of bombing by the most powerful group of countries ever assembled. The US and others even admit this was the case - do some checking. The US and all its allies (other than the UK) would not even consider a land invasion because it would be far too costly because of terrain and a formidable enemy. Again, do some research.

After 78 days an agreement was made and Yugoslavia had the very points that caused the bombing removed - namely, there would be no referendum on independence for Kosovo after 3 years, and there would be no NATO occupation of the whole of Yugoslavia. This throws the whole reason for the bombing into question, one might say...

Of course the West lied about 1244 and the territorial sovereignty of Serbia, but that point is a mute one here. Long story short, you are quite misinformed about VJ and NATO.

"There are only 2 possibilities 1. Kosovo as independent or 2. Kosovo as a permanent UN/EU protectorate."
(pss)

-- If Bosnia is anything to indicate, I think we're leaning towards #2 with Kosovo as well.

Joe,

B92 cut off the entire paragraph...

anyways, are u even paying attention to current trends... the West is crumbling.. with it will go the US the EU and NATO...

besides all we need is a 10 Russian AF Migs/Sukhoi to defend our airspace. An no NATO member will dare touch us or risk Nuclear war.

This documentary from Italian RAI is one of many reasons to why Serbia will never give up its land!
I'm glad to see that the world is finaly waking up!

http://tiny.cc/rTnny

It is true that Kosovo is largely occupied by Albanians but owned by Serbia and Serbians. It is time the government in Serbia started addressing the Albanian populace of Kosovo. Thachi and co have led them nowhere. If the Albanians want the EU and economic progress then they would do better to side with their 'enemies' than blindly follow their misled Albanian leaders. Together we can achieve more..

Mladen,

What good do those 200 some tanks if NATO is all around you?

"Don't be naive! It is very clear there will there will be no EU or NATO for Serbia without "solving" the Kosova/o "issue" first." (EA)

-- And that is exactly what Belgrade has been saying all along. Time to renegotiate!

"65 country and more recognize this goverment and that number isn't small. Big world leaders have visited this goverment and have ties to our President and Prime." (Demi)

-- Yes, but by Sejdiu's own admonition, only around 20 or so of those 65 have established formal diplomatic relations. I daresay Mauritania or Nauru are going to be a heavy Ace in the Hole for you. And those countries that do carry some weight have all agreed not to pressure Serbia in any way to recognize Kosovo, nor will they take any proactive measures in dismantling those "parallel" institutions. In fact, despite the official rhetoric, they're perfectly happy to let Belgrade do what it wants in the Serb municipalities as long as they stay out of the Albanian.

Status may have trumped standards, but stability trumps status.

You are right that Serbia needs the EU more than Kosovo, but EU membership has not been contingent on writing off Kosovo (at least not completely).

Both sides are going to have to swallow their pride to get anywhere in the end, but if you really look at it, both sides will have to write off something they never really had to begin with.

1. Kosovo does not have a "government". It has interim institutions that are controlled by the West.

2. Yes, 65 countries have recognised Kosovo. HOWEVER, this accounts for 1/3 of UN members. It's a poor result given that you embarked on your Mickey Mouse adventure two years ago.

3. If Serbia does not get into the EU then where does that leave Kosovo? Please don't tell me that you'll get into the EU without Serbia as this is utter nonsense.

4."Today even military strengh cannot help Serbia. Albanians are to strong." This comment is, I assume, some kind of joke?
(dingdong, 21 February 2010 12:48)


1. You can call it what you want because you don't recognize Kosovo (I respect that) but there is a goverment in Prishtina controled by representatives of the 2 million population in Kosovo. 65 country and more recognize this goverment and that number isn't small. Big world leaders have visited this goverment and have ties to our President and Prime.

2. 65 recognition of Kosovo will no disapear. It is 1/3 of the UN members but after only two years that number is acceptable. I would say a very good number if you compare to other nations when they got independent. But anyway this 65 % countrys is powerful countrys and the ones that count. Serbia can have it's poor countrys on their side for now.


3. Serbia needs EU more than Kosovo. Kosovo is not ready to get Eu membership but Serbia is. That means Kosovo can wait until Serbia get's it's membership. But if Serbia dosen't recognize Kosovo Serbia will not be a member of EU and we all know that. But you can allways stay with Russia your closest friend :)


4. Well my comment about the serbian military is no joke at all. Did Serbia succed to military control Kosovo back in 1999 ? No Serbia failed and would have failed even if Nato wouldent intervene. Albanians will never give up Kosovo and there is no military in the world that can change that. Kosovo would only be a warzone for decades to come if Serbia would try militarly to occupy Kosovo. EU and US dosen't want that and not even Russia. How should Serbia occupy Kosovo then ?

4. Well my comment about the serbian military is no joke at all. Did Serbia succed to military control Kosovo back in 1999 ? No Serbia failed and would have failed even if Nato wouldent intervene. Albanians will never give up Kosovo and there is no military in the world that can change that. Kosovo would only be a warzone for decades to come if Serbia would try militarly to occupy Kosovo. EU and US dosen't want that and not even Russia. How should Serbia occupy Kosovo then ?
(Demi, 21 February 2010 15:44)

are you joing are what albanians all left in 99 you all ran away and then nato came to help because you were done in 2 weeks.

The statement 'Albanians will never give up Kosovo' says little really....

....if Albanians gave up Albania that really would be news.

....if Serbia said it would give up Kosovo that really really would be news.

Have no doubt - Kosovo is still a matter of contention and the current situation has not produced a solution.

I gather graves of Serbs are still being desecrated. That was happening long before Milosevic - which is why my Kosovan (Serb) friends were driven out and feel such disgust and disappointment about the treatment given to them by Albanians. These frineds are good people - normal, peace loving, professional and hard working people who suffered wicked racism at the hands of Albanians.

The west did wrong to support this stupid udi - they only saw the part of the problem that they wanted to see.

As for Serbia and the EU. It would be a mistake to think that Serbia should give up what is its own. It would also be a mistake not to get Serbia in as soon as possible.

Any snobby politician or diplomat who think that they will 'force' Serbia to comply will taint the whole EU enterprise and leave scope for later reaction.

Kosovo is not that big a deal - there are more significant factors. I believe that the EU will find a way to reach agreement with Serbia because it is necessary. That is the only way forward that makes sense.

I understand how some of you said estonia and russia had a border problem and estonia still joined the eu but the border problem was minor. Northern kosovo is not the border problem between the authorities in pristina and belgrade it is the entire territory of kosovo! Kosovo can never join the eu because
1. Its entire territory is disputed.
2. 5 countries in the Eu dont recognize it and have said that they will not in the future.
3. ICJ ruling will that th udi is illegal will prevent it from joing any organization.
4. Kosovo is so underdeveloped that it wont even qualify to join the eu for another 25 years which is way after serbia joins blocking any attempt of kosovos accesion to the eu.
5. Kosovo is not a un member which does not make it a legitamate member of the international community.

Bottom line--
78 days is a very short war, throughout history.

Are you joing are what albanians all left in 99 you all ran away and then nato came to help because you were done in 2 weeks.( gajo, 21 February 2010 17:14)

If you are saying what I think you are then answer this. And since VJ was such an almighty army. How many hours it took VJ to run away from NATO?

"If you are saying what I think you are then answer this. And since VJ was such an almighty army. How many hours it took VJ to run away from NATO?"
(Mirub Jager, 22 February 2010 00:25)

Mirub, he was answering this post.

"4. Well my comment about the serbian military is no joke at all. Did Serbia succed to military control Kosovo back in 1999 ? No Serbia failed and would have failed even if Nato wouldent intervene."

Now you see he never said that Serbs would've beaten NATO. He was only saying that without NATO intervention you would've lost regardless of what your lot claims.

So do you agree then, that without NATO you would've lost or are you also claiming that VJ would've lost against KLA?

"We're not paying for Europe with Kosovo"

How can you pay with something you dont have?

Its the same as saying "we wont build a gold bridge till Russia"

It amazes me everytime some Serbian politician claims they even have something to give up.
There are only 2 possibilities 1. Kosovo as independent or 2. Kosovo as a permanent UN/EU protectorate.

(anonymous, 21 February 2010 23:03)
Same dreams, different day.
You cannot be so naive to think that the EU has invested so much in Kosovo to allow Serbia to thwart their plans.
To all those who keep saying Serbia joining the EU is more important than Kosovo, if that were true I think there would be far less than 22 out of 27 countries who have gone against Serbia on the Recognition issue.

Mike,

I think you have misread my previous comment.
The question was will or will not Serbia join NATO/EU without recognising Kosovo/a's independence first.
I strongly believe that Serbia will NOT be allowed to join EU/NATO without recognising Kosovo/a FIRST.
Serbia by being asked by EU "to solve the territorial/sovereignity issue with Kosovo/a FIRST" in diplomacy means you must recognise that REALITY which means Republic of Kosovo/a as an independent country.

If Serbia can make it onto the Schengen White List for visa free travel with the Kosovo problem, I'm sure that it can make it into the EU with the Kosovo issue still a problem.

Once it become apparent that Serbia will be in the EU, all the Albanians in Kosovo will suddenly want to be citizens of Serbia again, like those Albanians who are trying to get Serbian passports to enjoy visa-free travel.

"..It is time the government in Serbia started addressing the Albanian populace of Kosovo.."
(Balkan bother, 21 February 2010 17:17)

Good proposal my friend..that would be a good strategy, a very hard one, but maybe not impossible. Serbia has to win the hearts of the Albanians if it wants Kosovo back. Now the only question left is "HOW"? And the related question is "WHO" in Serbia would be willing to do that? Give us names if there are any available :)...

Of course the West lied about 1244 and the territorial sovereignty of Serbia, but that point is a mute one here. Long story short, you are quite misinformed about VJ and NATO.
(Jason, 22 February 2010 03:23)
Kind of a distorted view but expected.
Ever thought about the fact that NATO did not send in all their resources to tackle Serbia. Serbia was utilizing all its resources but if NATO had wanted to escalate the fighting and pour more troops and resources into the war it could have been over very quickly.
The biggest problem with the NATO intervention was if you are going to war you should require an "unconditional" surrender so you do not have 11+ years of BS.

"So i love how some people are saying that serbia cant join the eu because it has a problem with its border.This is great news for serbia because this will also apply to kosovo and will leave no other choice to the albanians but for new status talks.

...

(Anonymous, 21 February 2010 16:09) "

The northern border wouldn't necessarily be a problem for Kosovo - Estonia had (still has, I think) a disputed border with Russia, and it was allowed to enter. It seems that the border problem is only a killer if another EU state is involved. If Serbia remains completely intractable, the EU may decide it won't be joining and give Kosovo a pass on the border problem.

If Serbia does not finally wake up it will never enter the EU in this Millenium. Serbia has lost Kosovo once for all because for hundred years it did not care about its people but only about its territory and power, because it treated its people like rubbish and because it is still arrogantly opposing apologising for the kind of behavior there. Serbia has only one option. To start caring about its economic and social and judicial reforms, about real and mature cooperation with all world players that have recognised Kosovo and about explaining to its people how badly it was treated this issue. Only when it becomes a real democratic country like others in EU, USA and other western democracies, when it stopps playing two cards at the same time thinking wrongly that Brussels, Washington and New York do not understand the double game, when it handles its war criminals, only then it could hope that EU will allow it to enter it. Good luck.

If Serbia can make it onto the Schengen White List for visa free travel with the Kosovo problem, I'm sure that it can make it into the EU with the Kosovo issue still a problem.

Once it become apparent that Serbia will be in the EU, all the Albanians in Kosovo will suddenly want to be citizens of Serbia again, like those Albanians who are trying to get Serbian passports to enjoy visa-free travel.
(American Eagle, 22 February 2010 17:10)
Yes - similar to Republic of Cyprus and illegal pseudostate in Northern Cyprus...

"U.S. Vice-President Biden and French President Sarkozy told us that" Đelić was quoted as saying.

You betcha. And don't you waste time to think uselessly.

I´m afraid, noone on balkan understands the idea of Europe.

The European Union wants Serbia to join. Serbia does not have to even think of giving up on Kosovo. The European Union is based on economics. The European Union would suffer without Serbia because Serbia has millions and millions of people which translates into millions and millions of dollar spending people. As for NATO, my advice to forget them. NATO, which is USA controlled, wants Serbia to volunteer to irrationally give away Kosovo for nothing at all. Those who think there are benefits for Serbia to join NATO must realize that when joining NATO, watch NATO come in and build huge military bases in the country, stay there forever, and make all your military decisions, especially those regarding armed conflict if an armed conflict situation should arise. And watch NATO favor Muslim aggression against Christians and Christianity in Serbia while NATO looks the other way.

Well Kosovo will not be Serbia so it ias better for you to win EU membershit rather than losing everything. Kosovo got a goverment, and is recognized by 65 countrys so there is no chance for Serbia to occupy Kosovo again. And don't forget that there are 2 million albanians living in Kosovo and they opposes everything that is serbian.

So how are you going to give up Eu for Kosovo when Kosovo is impossible to re-occupy ??


Serbia can forget about Kosovo as long as 2 million albanians live there. When the albanians leave Kosovo as Milosevic trye'd to make it reality back in 98-99 then maybee Serbia can occupy that land of albanians again.


Today even military strengh cannot help Serbia. Albanians are to strong.

Let me put the "Kosova/o Serbia's issue in this way. Does Serbia really think that Europe is prepared to accept in its ranks a country which Serbia has got territorial/sovereignity issues?
Don't be naive! It is very clear there will there will be no EU or NATO for Serbia without "solving" the Kosova/o "issue" first.

1. Kosovo does not have a "government". It has interim institutions that are controlled by the West.

2. Yes, 65 countries have recognised Kosovo. HOWEVER, this accounts for 1/3 of UN members. It's a poor result given that you embarked on your Mickey Mouse adventure two years ago.

3. If Serbia does not get into the EU then where does that leave Kosovo? Please don't tell me that you'll get into the EU without Serbia as this is utter nonsense.

4."Today even military strengh cannot help Serbia. Albanians are to strong." This comment is, I assume, some kind of joke?
(dingdong, 21 February 2010 12:48)


1. You can call it what you want because you don't recognize Kosovo (I respect that) but there is a goverment in Prishtina controled by representatives of the 2 million population in Kosovo. 65 country and more recognize this goverment and that number isn't small. Big world leaders have visited this goverment and have ties to our President and Prime.

2. 65 recognition of Kosovo will no disapear. It is 1/3 of the UN members but after only two years that number is acceptable. I would say a very good number if you compare to other nations when they got independent. But anyway this 65 % countrys is powerful countrys and the ones that count. Serbia can have it's poor countrys on their side for now.


3. Serbia needs EU more than Kosovo. Kosovo is not ready to get Eu membership but Serbia is. That means Kosovo can wait until Serbia get's it's membership. But if Serbia dosen't recognize Kosovo Serbia will not be a member of EU and we all know that. But you can allways stay with Russia your closest friend :)


4. Well my comment about the serbian military is no joke at all. Did Serbia succed to military control Kosovo back in 1999 ? No Serbia failed and would have failed even if Nato wouldent intervene. Albanians will never give up Kosovo and there is no military in the world that can change that. Kosovo would only be a warzone for decades to come if Serbia would try militarly to occupy Kosovo. EU and US dosen't want that and not even Russia. How should Serbia occupy Kosovo then ?

Mike,

I think you have misread my previous comment.
The question was will or will not Serbia join NATO/EU without recognising Kosovo/a's independence first.
I strongly believe that Serbia will NOT be allowed to join EU/NATO without recognising Kosovo/a FIRST.
Serbia by being asked by EU "to solve the territorial/sovereignity issue with Kosovo/a FIRST" in diplomacy means you must recognise that REALITY which means Republic of Kosovo/a as an independent country.

Well Kosovo will not be Serbia so it ias better for you to win EU membershit rather than losing everything. Kosovo got a goverment, and is recognized by 65 countrys so there is no chance for Serbia to occupy Kosovo again. And don't forget that there are 2 million albanians living in Kosovo and they opposes everything that is serbian.

(Demi, 21 February 2010 11:50)

Oppose everything that is Serbian ...... with views like that, then I pity the K-Serbs, especially those south of the Ibar.

Demi

1. Kosovo does not have a "government". It has interim institutions that are controlled by the West.

2. Yes, 65 countries have recognised Kosovo. HOWEVER, this accounts for 1/3 of UN members. It's a poor result given that you embarked on your Mickey Mouse adventure two years ago.

3. If Serbia does not get into the EU then where does that leave Kosovo? Please don't tell me that you'll get into the EU without Serbia as this is utter nonsense.

4."Today even military strengh cannot help Serbia. Albanians are to strong." This comment is, I assume, some kind of joke?

Today even military strengh cannot help Serbia. Albanians are to strong.
(Demi, 21 February 2010 11:50)

Huge problem in Albanians today. They never do any research:

Today even military strengh cannot help Serbia. Albanians are to strong.
(Demi, 21 February 2010 11:50)


huge problems with Albanians these days. They never do any research:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Serbian_Land_Forces

Your two load bearing pillars (US n EU) are about to fall.. its over... You lose

If Serbia does not finally wake up it will never enter the EU in this Millenium. Serbia has lost Kosovo once for all because for hundred years it did not care about its people but only about its territory and power, because it treated its people like rubbish and because it is still arrogantly opposing apologising for the kind of behavior there. Serbia has only one option. To start caring about its economic and social and judicial reforms, about real and mature cooperation with all world players that have recognised Kosovo and about explaining to its people how badly it was treated this issue. Only when it becomes a real democratic country like others in EU, USA and other western democracies, when it stopps playing two cards at the same time thinking wrongly that Brussels, Washington and New York do not understand the double game, when it handles its war criminals, only then it could hope that EU will allow it to enter it. Good luck.

Are you joing are what albanians all left in 99 you all ran away and then nato came to help because you were done in 2 weeks.( gajo, 21 February 2010 17:14)

If you are saying what I think you are then answer this. And since VJ was such an almighty army. How many hours it took VJ to run away from NATO?

You WILL pay with Kosovo, you must. They created it, period.

More interesting, what will you get? Look at Greece spain and Portugal for a clue. But it will be worse still, these countries where never bombed raped, torned apart and occupied by Germany & Co. Now, how stupid can someone get? They did this in the 20:th century and are doing it still.

Move on Serbia, get rid of the backwards puppet regime and Go East!

"We're not paying for Europe with Kosovo"

How can you pay with something you dont have?

Its the same as saying "we wont build a gold bridge till Russia"

Mladen,

What good do those 200 some tanks if NATO is all around you?

Demi

a report on Euronews(UK) said many K-Albanians have applied for Serbian passports so they can get the benifits from visa free travel etc. Your point on the KLA beating the Serb army well not true thats why NATO got involved, it was alleged that the Serb army was slaughtering the Albanians. The real reason for NATO to join the war was to get control, 2 areas which have the highest risk from Islamic militants were/are Kosovo and Bosnia both now under west control. 65 countries in 2 years is poor, in reality the only country which s important to recognise Kosovo is Serbia without there recognition Kosovo will not move forward it will remain a frozen conflict. The US and EU won't back roll Kosovo forever.

Do we really want Kosovo or Albania in the EU? Look at Turkey, if you were christian then yes.

It is true that Kosovo is largely occupied by Albanians but owned by Serbia and Serbians. It is time the government in Serbia started addressing the Albanian populace of Kosovo. Thachi and co have led them nowhere. If the Albanians want the EU and economic progress then they would do better to side with their 'enemies' than blindly follow their misled Albanian leaders. Together we can achieve more..

"So i love how some people are saying that serbia cant join the eu because it has a problem with its border.This is great news for serbia because this will also apply to kosovo and will leave no other choice to the albanians but for new status talks.

...

(Anonymous, 21 February 2010 16:09) "

The northern border wouldn't necessarily be a problem for Kosovo - Estonia had (still has, I think) a disputed border with Russia, and it was allowed to enter. It seems that the border problem is only a killer if another EU state is involved. If Serbia remains completely intractable, the EU may decide it won't be joining and give Kosovo a pass on the border problem.

Joe,

B92 cut off the entire paragraph...

anyways, are u even paying attention to current trends... the West is crumbling.. with it will go the US the EU and NATO...

besides all we need is a 10 Russian AF Migs/Sukhoi to defend our airspace. An no NATO member will dare touch us or risk Nuclear war.

1. You can call it what you want because you don't recognize Kosovo (I respect that) but there is a goverment in Prishtina controled by representatives of the 2 million population in Kosovo. 65 country and more recognize this goverment and that number isn't small. Big world leaders have visited this goverment and have ties to our President and Prime.

2. 65 recognition of Kosovo will no disapear. It is 1/3 of the UN members but after only two years that number is acceptable. I would say a very good number if you compare to other nations when they got independent. But anyway this 65 % countrys is powerful countrys and the ones that count. Serbia can have it's poor countrys on their side for now.


3. Serbia needs EU more than Kosovo. Kosovo is not ready to get Eu membership but Serbia is. That means Kosovo can wait until Serbia get's it's membership. But if Serbia dosen't recognize Kosovo Serbia will not be a member of EU and we all know that. But you can allways stay with Russia your closest friend :)


4. Well my comment about the serbian military is no joke at all. Did Serbia succed to military control Kosovo back in 1999 ? No Serbia failed and would have failed even if Nato wouldent intervene. Albanians will never give up Kosovo and there is no military in the world that can change that. Kosovo would only be a warzone for decades to come if Serbia would try militarly to occupy Kosovo. EU and US dosen't want that and not even Russia. How should Serbia occupy Kosovo then ?
(Demi, 21 February 2010 15:44)

1. Some of countries who recognized Kosovo under US pressure - don't established real diplomatic relations (e.g. Poland, who don't establish embassy in Kosovo).

2. Fortunately - in the World - money is not all. Mayby USA or Germany have lot of money - but these money can't give real recognition for illegal state.

3. If Kosovo don't need EU - so why they need EU money?? EU financed 15-20% of Kosovo budget. If not this money - Thaci "government" will collapce very quickly.

4. In 1999 - UCK was nearly defeated by yugoslav military. Only US intervention saved terrorists.

I´m afraid, noone on balkan understands the idea of Europe.

So i love how some people are saying that serbia cant join the eu because it has a problem with its border.This is great news for serbia because this will also apply to kosovo and will leave no other choice to the albanians but for new status talks. Common sense kosovo can never join the eu as long as serbia doesnt recognize it!

It amazes me everytime some Serbian politician claims they even have something to give up.
There are only 2 possibilities 1. Kosovo as independent or 2. Kosovo as a permanent UN/EU protectorate.

I think the albanians at this forum are missing the bigger picture. By refusing to recognize Kosovo a future option will be to partition the territory along ethinc lines. Albanians don't want to be ruled by Serbs and vice versa. The main issue is Bosnia and Republica Srpska. Later on if the ICJ rules in Serbias favour over Kosovo and still looses parts of Kosovo then it will use that leverage in Bosnia. If international law can be broken in Kosovo the same will apply to Bosnia. If Albanians in Kosovo demand their right to chose so will the Serbs in Bosnia. It will ultimately be imposible for the world to deny a right to one people but not the other. Have to say that the Serbian leadership is playing the international community very well. Time is definately on Serbias side.

This documentary from Italian RAI is one of many reasons to why Serbia will never give up its land!
I'm glad to see that the world is finaly waking up!

http://tiny.cc/rTnny

"There are only 2 possibilities 1. Kosovo as independent or 2. Kosovo as a permanent UN/EU protectorate."
(pss)

-- If Bosnia is anything to indicate, I think we're leaning towards #2 with Kosovo as well.

4. Well my comment about the serbian military is no joke at all. Did Serbia succed to military control Kosovo back in 1999 ? No Serbia failed and would have failed even if Nato wouldent intervene. Albanians will never give up Kosovo and there is no military in the world that can change that. Kosovo would only be a warzone for decades to come if Serbia would try militarly to occupy Kosovo. EU and US dosen't want that and not even Russia. How should Serbia occupy Kosovo then ?
(Demi, 21 February 2010 15:44)

are you joing are what albanians all left in 99 you all ran away and then nato came to help because you were done in 2 weeks.

Of course the West lied about 1244 and the territorial sovereignty of Serbia, but that point is a mute one here. Long story short, you are quite misinformed about VJ and NATO.
(Jason, 22 February 2010 03:23)
Kind of a distorted view but expected.
Ever thought about the fact that NATO did not send in all their resources to tackle Serbia. Serbia was utilizing all its resources but if NATO had wanted to escalate the fighting and pour more troops and resources into the war it could have been over very quickly.
The biggest problem with the NATO intervention was if you are going to war you should require an "unconditional" surrender so you do not have 11+ years of BS.

"Don't be naive! It is very clear there will there will be no EU or NATO for Serbia without "solving" the Kosova/o "issue" first." (EA)

-- And that is exactly what Belgrade has been saying all along. Time to renegotiate!

"65 country and more recognize this goverment and that number isn't small. Big world leaders have visited this goverment and have ties to our President and Prime." (Demi)

-- Yes, but by Sejdiu's own admonition, only around 20 or so of those 65 have established formal diplomatic relations. I daresay Mauritania or Nauru are going to be a heavy Ace in the Hole for you. And those countries that do carry some weight have all agreed not to pressure Serbia in any way to recognize Kosovo, nor will they take any proactive measures in dismantling those "parallel" institutions. In fact, despite the official rhetoric, they're perfectly happy to let Belgrade do what it wants in the Serb municipalities as long as they stay out of the Albanian.

Status may have trumped standards, but stability trumps status.

You are right that Serbia needs the EU more than Kosovo, but EU membership has not been contingent on writing off Kosovo (at least not completely).

Both sides are going to have to swallow their pride to get anywhere in the end, but if you really look at it, both sides will have to write off something they never really had to begin with.

I understand how some of you said estonia and russia had a border problem and estonia still joined the eu but the border problem was minor. Northern kosovo is not the border problem between the authorities in pristina and belgrade it is the entire territory of kosovo! Kosovo can never join the eu because
1. Its entire territory is disputed.
2. 5 countries in the Eu dont recognize it and have said that they will not in the future.
3. ICJ ruling will that th udi is illegal will prevent it from joing any organization.
4. Kosovo is so underdeveloped that it wont even qualify to join the eu for another 25 years which is way after serbia joins blocking any attempt of kosovos accesion to the eu.
5. Kosovo is not a un member which does not make it a legitamate member of the international community.

(anonymous, 21 February 2010 23:03)
Same dreams, different day.
You cannot be so naive to think that the EU has invested so much in Kosovo to allow Serbia to thwart their plans.
To all those who keep saying Serbia joining the EU is more important than Kosovo, if that were true I think there would be far less than 22 out of 27 countries who have gone against Serbia on the Recognition issue.

The statement 'Albanians will never give up Kosovo' says little really....

....if Albanians gave up Albania that really would be news.

....if Serbia said it would give up Kosovo that really really would be news.

Have no doubt - Kosovo is still a matter of contention and the current situation has not produced a solution.

I gather graves of Serbs are still being desecrated. That was happening long before Milosevic - which is why my Kosovan (Serb) friends were driven out and feel such disgust and disappointment about the treatment given to them by Albanians. These frineds are good people - normal, peace loving, professional and hard working people who suffered wicked racism at the hands of Albanians.

The west did wrong to support this stupid udi - they only saw the part of the problem that they wanted to see.

As for Serbia and the EU. It would be a mistake to think that Serbia should give up what is its own. It would also be a mistake not to get Serbia in as soon as possible.

Any snobby politician or diplomat who think that they will 'force' Serbia to comply will taint the whole EU enterprise and leave scope for later reaction.

Kosovo is not that big a deal - there are more significant factors. I believe that the EU will find a way to reach agreement with Serbia because it is necessary. That is the only way forward that makes sense.

"How many hours it took VJ to run away from NATO?" (Mirub Jager)

-- Well, knowing that my counry bombed Serbia for 78 days, and there are 24 hours in a day, my calculations estimate that it took 1872 hours for VJ to withdraw ("run away" isn't really an appropriate interpretation since VJ was still in Kosovo when the Kumanovo Agreement was signed). Regardless of the past-tense verb used, that's about 1800 more hours than NATO officials originally estimated. Now, not to flex one's....ahem...history, tell me Mirub, how many hours did the KLA last against VJ until they needed NATO intervention?

Are you joing are what albanians all left in 99 you all ran away and then nato came to help because you were done in 2 weeks.( gajo, 21 February 2010 17:14)

If you are saying what I think you are then answer this. And since VJ was such an almighty army. How many hours it took VJ to run away from NATO?
(Mirub Jager, 22 February 2010 00:25)

Wow, you are really misinformed. The VJ was largely untouched after 78 days of bombing by the most powerful group of countries ever assembled. The US and others even admit this was the case - do some checking. The US and all its allies (other than the UK) would not even consider a land invasion because it would be far too costly because of terrain and a formidable enemy. Again, do some research.

After 78 days an agreement was made and Yugoslavia had the very points that caused the bombing removed - namely, there would be no referendum on independence for Kosovo after 3 years, and there would be no NATO occupation of the whole of Yugoslavia. This throws the whole reason for the bombing into question, one might say...

Of course the West lied about 1244 and the territorial sovereignty of Serbia, but that point is a mute one here. Long story short, you are quite misinformed about VJ and NATO.

"U.S. Vice-President Biden and French President Sarkozy told us that" Đelić was quoted as saying.

You betcha. And don't you waste time to think uselessly.

If Serbia can make it onto the Schengen White List for visa free travel with the Kosovo problem, I'm sure that it can make it into the EU with the Kosovo issue still a problem.

Once it become apparent that Serbia will be in the EU, all the Albanians in Kosovo will suddenly want to be citizens of Serbia again, like those Albanians who are trying to get Serbian passports to enjoy visa-free travel.

"..It is time the government in Serbia started addressing the Albanian populace of Kosovo.."
(Balkan bother, 21 February 2010 17:17)

Good proposal my friend..that would be a good strategy, a very hard one, but maybe not impossible. Serbia has to win the hearts of the Albanians if it wants Kosovo back. Now the only question left is "HOW"? And the related question is "WHO" in Serbia would be willing to do that? Give us names if there are any available :)...

"If you are saying what I think you are then answer this. And since VJ was such an almighty army. How many hours it took VJ to run away from NATO?"
(Mirub Jager, 22 February 2010 00:25)

Mirub, he was answering this post.

"4. Well my comment about the serbian military is no joke at all. Did Serbia succed to military control Kosovo back in 1999 ? No Serbia failed and would have failed even if Nato wouldent intervene."

Now you see he never said that Serbs would've beaten NATO. He was only saying that without NATO intervention you would've lost regardless of what your lot claims.

So do you agree then, that without NATO you would've lost or are you also claiming that VJ would've lost against KLA?

Bottom line--
78 days is a very short war, throughout history.

If Serbia can make it onto the Schengen White List for visa free travel with the Kosovo problem, I'm sure that it can make it into the EU with the Kosovo issue still a problem.

Once it become apparent that Serbia will be in the EU, all the Albanians in Kosovo will suddenly want to be citizens of Serbia again, like those Albanians who are trying to get Serbian passports to enjoy visa-free travel.
(American Eagle, 22 February 2010 17:10)
Yes - similar to Republic of Cyprus and illegal pseudostate in Northern Cyprus...

The European Union wants Serbia to join. Serbia does not have to even think of giving up on Kosovo. The European Union is based on economics. The European Union would suffer without Serbia because Serbia has millions and millions of people which translates into millions and millions of dollar spending people. As for NATO, my advice to forget them. NATO, which is USA controlled, wants Serbia to volunteer to irrationally give away Kosovo for nothing at all. Those who think there are benefits for Serbia to join NATO must realize that when joining NATO, watch NATO come in and build huge military bases in the country, stay there forever, and make all your military decisions, especially those regarding armed conflict if an armed conflict situation should arise. And watch NATO favor Muslim aggression against Christians and Christianity in Serbia while NATO looks the other way.