Vienna meeting backs plan for north

Given that this group is only composed of states that support independent Kosovo, this article is about as profound as one that reads, "Pristina Supports Independence."

Kosova is moving forward. No obstacle is foreseen.

B92 said "Deputy Prime Minister Božidar Đelić said on Monday that Serbia did not recognize the International Steering Group and considered it illegal, and its conclusions meaningless."

Well, well, Serbia is shooting itself on the foot again. One one side it says I want to joing the EU on the other side the countries of the bloc tell Serbia to do homeworks or forget the EU...

At this point the EU is proving to be a knife with two edges.

A difficult pill to swollow.

The alternative is easy...go to your roots in Carpathian Mountains.

I also fail to understand why Serbia want to force Kosovo to accept something that they themselves didn't want to accept!

That's truly disturbing...

Serbia should show some muscles as a proof that it is truly cares for the preservation of its territorial integrity. Just watching the situation is meaningless..

ISG is NATO!! And this is the same organization that occupy Kosovo

There is nothing International about this so-called "International Civil Office". This is just another name for NATO.

Serbia and Serbians reject it. The "ICO" is illegal and has no authority in the North of Kosovo. What are you going to do now? Cause conflict and instability?

I fail to understand why they want to force the North to accept something that they themselves didn't want to accept!

Truly disturbing...

"At a session in Vienna, the International Steering Group urged all sides, including Serbia, to play a constructive role in this important process so as to ensure better living conditions in northern Kosovo."

After reading this article I had to look at the calendar to make sure it wasn't april fools day.
To ensure better living conditions in northern Kosovo!!! By accepting Pristina!!! Yes, Serbs would be much better off being a minority in their own country, surrounded by a hostile albanian population, who not only tried to kill and expell the remaining Serbs in 2004 but also destroyed their property, cemeteries and places of worship. I bet a lot of Serbs are hoping for a repeat.

White Schengen was giveaway to Serbia from EU, so Serbia has to pay for it somehow.

As far as I can recall the strategy for North was made public after W.Schengen was given to Serbia and I think that these two are linked. Anyhow, I don understand why some posters in here are disputing such arrangments between Serbia and EU, when we know what happend in Krajina and Bosnia. In both situations Serbia proper let them down big time.

Kosova is moving forward. No obstacle is foreseen.

B92 said "Deputy Prime Minister Božidar Đelić said on Monday that Serbia did not recognize the International Steering Group and considered it illegal, and its conclusions meaningless."

Well, well, Serbia is shooting itself on the foot again. One one side it says I want to joing the EU on the other side the countries of the bloc tell Serbia to do homeworks or forget the EU...

At this point the EU is proving to be a knife with two edges.

A difficult pill to swollow.

The alternative is easy...go to your roots in Carpathian Mountains.
(PRN, 9 February 2010 09:48)

Moving forward???? Serbia have free visa travel and very clear european perspective - and Your pseudoindependent "Kosova" have nothing.

So - for peoples on North the best solution is reintegration with rest of republic of Serbia - state who have real perspectives in future.

Look at the bigger picture, NATO has tryed for years to surround Russia with regime change, troops & hostile client-puppets from Balticum to Kyrgyzitstan. It has gained nothing as their aggression are being rolled back by Moscow and the ultimate blow to NATO came with russias check mate in the caucasus. NATO fled with their tails between their legs when their tie-eating proxy in Georgia tryed to provoke the bear.

The cowards wouldnt start ww3 for Saakaswili and could do nothing. They could do even less in Kosovo but seems hell-bent on starting another war there anyway. Why is that? Well they sure have their more-than-obedient puppet regime in Belgrade but Serbs have fought foreign occupants for centuries regardless of current regime and would do so again.

Mirub Jager,

You are a true prophet and do you work by any change for EULEX? This plan is a recipe for serious trouble and I support the Serbs in Kosovo 1000% in their resistance to be controlled by the war criminals and drug lords in Pristina and their colonial masters in Washington DC, Berlin, and Brussels. After 500 years of Ottoman occupation and oppression there will be no more Orthodox Christian Serbs being ruled by Muslim Albanians, period. This ISG and ICO are indeed nothing more than NATO departments in a civil disguise. It is completely disgusting as is the arrogance of many Albanian commentators here. You cannot accomplish anything by yourself and just because of that you do not deserve independence. You are nothing more that a big collection of welfare recipients. Soon the west will be sick of you and finally realize what a big waste of money it all has been. And Peter Feith, he will have his day in court one day.

Kosovo will be independent and north will be part of it. As an "insider" I can asure you that the gossip has it that the NATO troop reduction was made only after Serb garantees of no violent protest even if Integration Plan unfolds. The Nato troop concentration specifically in the north has no other purpose but enforce the Plan.

The saying; Money talks, BS walks has taken place in north. Soon the EU will reveal a far-reaching investment plan to include huge employment, infrastructure rebuilding, foreign investment blueprint, placement of an EU important agency HQ in northern part. This is something that already got the green light from Serbia in exchange for a share of electrical power market in Kosovo. Serbian Energy Corp will get the right to grid into northern Kosovo. The residents will have a regional choice of power supply. The Kosovo Gov't will get loan funds to build a new power plant to compete for customers, without Albania's assistance on supply side.

To my dismay, some posters will confront this plan wich will guarantee almost full employment of the whole north and south Mitrovica, integrate population into an economically viable society instead of divisive one. After all, even Europe needs its cheap labor.

I warned you weeks ahead of the 'Integration Plan', as I did on troop placement. A month ago I warned you of the blueprint for Serbia's direct EU membership in exchange for no "behind the doors" opposition to Kosovo's UN membership without recognisition by Serbia. Only then Russia started to make noise to awake the people's sentiment against the Serbian Gov't; not to join NATO for you will loose Kosovo, will change our stand on Kosovo if Serbia becomes Euro-integrated (these are titles you've seen on B92 too).

This chess game will continue until all The Balkans will be fully integrated into EU, the borders will mean nothing and economical reason will reign throughout.

I have to drive up north now.

"I fail to understand why they want to force the North to accept something that they themselves didn't want to accept!

Truly disturbing... "
(The Swiss)

-- What's even worse is that it forces Serbs in Kosovo to actually regress. There is nothing beneficial for them to join with Pristina.

Why would Kosovo Serbs, particularly Kosovo Serbs of the north that enjoy all rights and benefits of being part of the rest of Serbia, want to integrate with an entity that is

a) politically corrupt
b) economically backward
c) institutionally dysfunctional
d) socially hierarchical?

Why would Serbs want to join an entity that has no chance of joining the EU, let alone the UN? Why would Serbs want to give up their access to Belgrade for access to a state where they know they will be second class citizens with little to no mobility? Why would they want to "improve" their standards of living when the standards of living in Kosovo are some of the lowest in Europe? Why would Serbs want to join an entity when the theoretical citizens of that very same entity goes to Gracanica to get Serbian biometric passports in order to travel out the the region?

In other words, and this is something no one has been able to properly answer: what could Pristina offer the K Serbs that Belgrade can't or isn't? In the same rationale Albanians asked in 2008: why should I be a minority in your country when I can have a country of my own? In my opinion, there is not a single solitary reason why it would be better for the Serbs to join Pristina. What has Pristina ever done for them? Clearly the officials in Vienna are still forcing themselves to look at Kosovo through rose-tinted glasses. If the Albanians want their own institutions, let them have it. I couldn't care less. But if the Serbs want no part of those institutions, why should they be forced into a state when the Albanians weren't forced into a state?

I agree with other posters that the ISG is from the same camp as NATO. It is there to implement the Ahtisaari Plan which has not been passed by the UN.

The main criteria for joining the ISG is recognition of independence, therefore as a body it is in direct conflict with the agreed status neutrality of the UN and EULEX.

The only authority resides with the UN under Resolution 1244 and all other legitimate bodies come under this umbrella.

The ISG is just a place to go for the usual suspects who hold no official role but want to try and dabble from the sidelines.

They are just like gatecrashers hoping that nobody will notice, but Russia certainly has and will not tolerate this sort of self-appointed power.

Pristina may have adopted the A Plan as a major part of its constitution but it has not in reality been passed by any legitimate process.

On a slightly different issue, I don't believe that Serbia should join Nato under any circumstances.

Whistling in the wind.

It is fairly clear that Pristina will not rule in the north.

I wonder if they will ever be allowed to rule in the south either

I wonder why this plan should be apply if the people who live there doesn't want. If the majority doesn't want to live in a MAFIA-STATE it's not right to force them..
If the European Union really want to have a Mafia-state in your own backyard why don't let Thaci and co (Us) going ahead by yourself without involving others..

"Kosovo will be independent and north will be part of it. As an "insider" I can asure you that the gossip has it that the NATO troop reduction was made only after Serb garantees of no violent protest even if Integration Plan unfolds. The Nato troop concentration specifically in the north has no other purpose but enforce the Plan."

Mirub,

You sound like someone who works in a rather minor position for EULEX but tries so hard to act like he is in the know. Look at your above statement - see how ridiculous it is? Who thinks Belgrade can guarantee anything regarding protests by the very Serbs this plan affects? And NATO agreed to reduce troop numbers based upon this phantom guarantee? Ha! This is beyond ridiculous.

Secondly, EPS has already been supplying power (with almost zero interruptions at a lower price) in the north so don't wait for it to rain then predict rain showers.

I cannot wait to see by the end of April that your beloved KSF has no footing north of the Ibar. It will prove you have little notion of reality but plenty of hopes and dreams.

Mirub, two things in response to your overly optimistic comment:

1. If you're going to lie, make sure you lie convincingly

2. If you have to drive to the north, make sure you change your plates from KS to KM

Good luck with your little Anchluss. Let me know if you find any Kosovars up there.

"Vienna meeting backs plan for north"

Wow what a surpirse, NOT!

So if I'm understanding the logic used here that no Serb can live under Albanian rule then it's fair to say all Serbs are for Kosova's independence since the same is true as well, no Albanian can live under Serb rule.

And while you can take North of Ibar please don't foget to swap it for Presheva valley. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

We cann all live happily everafter.
(Zoti, 9 February 2010 21:52)

What a tired argument, Zoti. Serbia proper does not have its integrity questioned by the international community. Kosovo is what is in question here. You get nothing in Presevo because it has been decided back when the terrorists tried to start a war there. Remember what happened? They were told to sit down and shut up... or risk a severe beating at the hands of Serbian military and police.

The north of Kosovo is what is being discussed now, so forget Presevo.

I fail to understand why they want to force the North to accept something that they themselves didn't want to accept!

Truly disturbing...
(The Swiss, 9 February 2010 10:16)
I take this as an admission that you feel it is wrong for Serbia to want to reintegrate Kosovo against the will of the people.

This chess game will continue until all The Balkans will be fully integrated into EU, the borders will mean nothing and economical reason will reign throughout.
(Mirub Jager, 9 February 2010 15:47)

Pretty funny chess game is it: you create new borders and pull new countrylets (like Montenegro) out of blue sky - just to remove them later?

Why not work on a "better union" right a way? Just study the history of USA.
BTW: unlike for USA, I am not really sure, that "EU" will exist for extended period of time or if yes, than in what form.

As for "working permits", "visas", "passports" and other BS: it's worth to remember, these DID NOT EXIST in the entire Europe before WW-I. The travel used to be "borderless" but there wasn't "EU".

As for "economical reason": please be first and give up your dearest Fränkli. Just adopt Euro and don't use that over-hyped, over-valued speculative money. Now 1:1 with USD - what a joke.

'To my dismay, some posters will confront this plan wich will guarantee almost full employment'

Can we guarantee that in Britain, Germany and France too?

As we say, what a rocket!

Now what would an eastern Anatolian know about the Carpathians.

I fail to understand why they want to force the North to accept something that they themselves didn't want to accept!

Truly disturbing...
(The Swiss, 9 February 2010 10:16)
I take this as an admission that you feel it is wrong for Serbia to want to reintegrate Kosovo against the will of the people.
(pss, 9 February 2010 14:36)

Albanians in Kosovo live on SERBIA's land. If this was Serbs in Albania then by all means do what you want in your country.

This is something that already got the green light from Serbia in exchange for a share of electrical power market in Kosovo. Serbian Energy Corp will get the right to grid into northern Kosovo.
(Mirub Jager, 9 February 2010 15:47)
--
Mirub, EPS is already in the North and hooked up to the grid. But, I wouldn't put much past this DS government to do something like that. They were put into power by Otpor (NATO creation) in the first place. Many former Otpor members are now part of the DS. However, they will have to deal with the people if they try something too smart. Lets wait and see what happens - Serbians, as a people, will not sell their soul for thirty pieces of silver.

Anyway, some background on the seeds of the DS and Otpor. Yes, they have already received thirty pieces of silver.
==
Otpor was a recipient of substantial funds from U.S. government affiliated organizations such as the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), International Republican Institute (IRI), and US Agency for International Development (USAID).

Paul B. McCarthy from the Washington-based NED stated that Otpor received the majority of US$3 million spent by NED in Serbia from September 1998 until October 2000.

Just how much of the US$25 million, appropriated in the year 2000 by USAID, for the purposes of bringing down Milošević, went to Otpor is not clear. Donald L. Pressley, the assistant administrator at USAID said that several hundred thousand dollars were given to Otpor directly for "demonstration-support material, like T-shirts and stickers".

A group of activists made one trip to Budapest in neighbouring Hungary in June 2000 to attend a lecture by retired US Army Col. Robert Helvey, a colleague of Sharp, who was later portrayed as the "creator" of Otpor.

Here, check http://tinyurl.com/ydlbh8z

PRN wrote:

"Kosova is moving forward. No obstacles foreseen"

It sounds very much like weather forecast "No rain expected". Make sure you take an umbrella with, you'll need it for certain.

"And while you can take North of Ibar please don't foget to swap it for Presheva valley. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. We cann all live happily everafter."
(Zoti)

-- One slight amendment to your proposal: how about all Serb municipalities in Kosovo (not just the north)follow their own plan, and Albanian municipalities follow theirs? We don't need to include Presevo because it's not part of Kosovo, and as we all know, borders can't be changed. Sad, I know and I wish it were different, but that's the world we live in.

Stefano, in a way you must have been blind the last few months, if there was a fight against Mafia it took place with involvement of a lot of Serbian Mafia-criminals all over the world.

One thing what Serbia and his ministers won't see, is the fact that, even if new negotiations would occur and Kosovo would be a 'more than autonomous province' of Serbia, by their stance they have created such an even wider gap between Serbs and Albanians that the situation in Kosovo will be unbearable. In this Serbian stubborn way it won't work at all!!

"Stefano, in a way you must have been blind the last few months, if there was a fight against Mafia it took place with involvement of a lot of Serbian Mafia-criminals all over the world. (cees)"

It's doesnt mean that in kosovo doesn't exist the mafia.The difference is that in Serbia the police is fighting against mafia day by day and in kosovo the political leaders represent the mafia so it's hard to fight against yourself!
I'm all but blind, maybe someone who believe that kosovo could stay alone without a watchdog . .

So if I'm understanding the logic used here that no Serb can live under Albanian rule then it's fair to say all Serbs are for Kosova's independence since the same is true as well, no Albanian can live under Serb rule.

And while you can take North of Ibar please don't foget to swap it for Presheva valley. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

We cann all live happily everafter.

What are you going to do now? Cause conflict and instability?
(Zoran, 9 February 2010 09:37) So profound that is exactly what the Serbs did all over they are correcting the Serbs. The difference is Serbia has to dance to their tune thats what they are playing if you like it or not. Live and learn Serbs had a chance to be leaders but they blown it big time with their neighbours and the wider world in many ways still doing it.

To Mike:
In North of Kosova(Mitrovica)live Kosovars also , I know a lot of albanians (Kosovars) there.
But how things is going according of North Kosovo integration plan will come more and more , be sure 100 %.
Cheers

Kosovo as the configuration it is now be designated "international territory", or "mandate" or whatever. I say this because efforts at establishing formal sovereignty just won't feasibly happen, but that should not impede progress and development of its people. Serb municipalities be placed under formal jurisdiction of Belgrade, while Albanian municipalities either chart their own course, definitively severed from Belgrade (that's what's been wanted all along) or if they wish, form similar links with Tirana (if it's good for Belgrade, it has to be good for Tirana - fair is fair).

Ideally for me, I'm not in favor of any border change and I'd like all of Kosovo to be in Serbia, but that's just not going to happen and its just going to drag the rest of Serbia down. So if I can make peace with the fact that large parts of Kosovo are effectively "gone", it can't be that hard for the opposing side to make peace with relinquishing the 8 or so Serb municipalities (the north and Gracanica are no brainers, while the others are for practical reasons and bode no political or economic loss to Pristina). I'm not in favor of additional border changes that would screw with Macedonia, Montenegro or Bosnia. They've got their own problems as it is. Yes, I'd like RS to be part of Serbia, but that's far too risky. The minute we go crazy redrawing borders all over the place other players want in on the action too. Let's just keep it focused on Kosovo and leave whatever Greater "X" existed 100 years ago to the history books. Those things rarely happen peacefully.

Thoughts?
(Mike)

In an ideal world I'd agree with everything you just said. My main concern is the welfare of the people and not fulfilling some "greater Albanian" dream. My rhetoric sometimes may show otherwise but that's because hypernationalism gets the best of us at times.

I only advocate redrawing of the borders sollely to avoid interethnic conflict in the future. The Blakns have always been and will always be a powder keg and ethnically homogenous states may be the solution to ever lasting peace.

Look at what's happened to Africa where the Europeans drew borders with complete disregard of the ethnicity of the tribes within those straight lines and the countries are mired in neverending conclicts. Imagine if the Hutu and the Tutsis lived in two separate countires as oppsed to one, there'd never been a genocide of a million people.

Zoti, what I'm implying (more like hypothesizing because neither of our ideas are going to fly - God forbid practicality gets in the way of a solution) would ideally be the following:

Kosovo as the configuration it is now be designated "international territory", or "mandate" or whatever. I say this because efforts at establishing formal sovereignty just won't feasibly happen, but that should not impede progress and development of its people. Serb municipalities be placed under formal jurisdiction of Belgrade, while Albanian municipalities either chart their own course, definitively severed from Belgrade (that's what's been wanted all along) or if they wish, form similar links with Tirana (if it's good for Belgrade, it has to be good for Tirana - fair is fair).

Ideally for me, I'm not in favor of any border change and I'd like all of Kosovo to be in Serbia, but that's just not going to happen and its just going to drag the rest of Serbia down. So if I can make peace with the fact that large parts of Kosovo are effectively "gone", it can't be that hard for the opposing side to make peace with relinquishing the 8 or so Serb municipalities (the north and Gracanica are no brainers, while the others are for practical reasons and bode no political or economic loss to Pristina). I'm not in favor of additional border changes that would screw with Macedonia, Montenegro or Bosnia. They've got their own problems as it is. Yes, I'd like RS to be part of Serbia, but that's far too risky. The minute we go crazy redrawing borders all over the place other players want in on the action too. Let's just keep it focused on Kosovo and leave whatever Greater "X" existed 100 years ago to the history books. Those things rarely happen peacefully.

Thoughts?

-- One slight amendment to your proposal: how about all Serb municipalities in Kosovo (not just the north)follow their own plan, and Albanian municipalities follow theirs? We don't need to include Presevo because it's not part of Kosovo, and as we all know, borders can't be changed. Sad, I know and I wish it were different, but that's the world we live in.
(Mike)

Mike, are you implying that Serbia recognize Kosova's independence and then have Serb municipalities self-govern? Or are you for keeping Albanians still under Serb control with maximum self-governing powers.

I can tell you no Albanian wants Serb rule. That is a moot point for us.

Where I think Albanians should be flexible is in giving the areas North of Ibar to Serbia and keep the Serb areas South of it. It's practically impossible to leave thsoe areas under Serb control and laughable when you are trying to claim territorial sovereignty.

Ideally I'd like to see Albania and Kosovar Albania join in one state as I have no problem seeing Serbia take North of Ibar and RS. I wouldn't mind bringing the Albanian lands in Macedonia under Tirana's control as well.

What I'm adovcating for should have been done 100 years ago, instead they carved Albania's territories and we've been trying for 100 years to right the historical wrongs.

Interethnic co-existence alla Belgium is impossible in the Balkans. It's time to end the experiment.

Serb municipalities be placed under formal jurisdiction of Belgrade, while Albanian municipalities either chart their own course, definitively severed from Belgrade (that's what's been wanted all along) or if they wish, form similar links with Tirana (if it's good for Belgrade, it has to be good for Tirana - fair is fair)

Kosova is moving forward. No obstacle is foreseen.

B92 said "Deputy Prime Minister Božidar Đelić said on Monday that Serbia did not recognize the International Steering Group and considered it illegal, and its conclusions meaningless."

Well, well, Serbia is shooting itself on the foot again. One one side it says I want to joing the EU on the other side the countries of the bloc tell Serbia to do homeworks or forget the EU...

At this point the EU is proving to be a knife with two edges.

A difficult pill to swollow.

The alternative is easy...go to your roots in Carpathian Mountains.

"At a session in Vienna, the International Steering Group urged all sides, including Serbia, to play a constructive role in this important process so as to ensure better living conditions in northern Kosovo."

After reading this article I had to look at the calendar to make sure it wasn't april fools day.
To ensure better living conditions in northern Kosovo!!! By accepting Pristina!!! Yes, Serbs would be much better off being a minority in their own country, surrounded by a hostile albanian population, who not only tried to kill and expell the remaining Serbs in 2004 but also destroyed their property, cemeteries and places of worship. I bet a lot of Serbs are hoping for a repeat.

There is nothing International about this so-called "International Civil Office". This is just another name for NATO.

Serbia and Serbians reject it. The "ICO" is illegal and has no authority in the North of Kosovo. What are you going to do now? Cause conflict and instability?

I fail to understand why they want to force the North to accept something that they themselves didn't want to accept!

Truly disturbing...

Serbia should show some muscles as a proof that it is truly cares for the preservation of its territorial integrity. Just watching the situation is meaningless..

ISG is NATO!! And this is the same organization that occupy Kosovo

Given that this group is only composed of states that support independent Kosovo, this article is about as profound as one that reads, "Pristina Supports Independence."

Kosova is moving forward. No obstacle is foreseen.

B92 said "Deputy Prime Minister Božidar Đelić said on Monday that Serbia did not recognize the International Steering Group and considered it illegal, and its conclusions meaningless."

Well, well, Serbia is shooting itself on the foot again. One one side it says I want to joing the EU on the other side the countries of the bloc tell Serbia to do homeworks or forget the EU...

At this point the EU is proving to be a knife with two edges.

A difficult pill to swollow.

The alternative is easy...go to your roots in Carpathian Mountains.
(PRN, 9 February 2010 09:48)

Moving forward???? Serbia have free visa travel and very clear european perspective - and Your pseudoindependent "Kosova" have nothing.

So - for peoples on North the best solution is reintegration with rest of republic of Serbia - state who have real perspectives in future.

I wonder why this plan should be apply if the people who live there doesn't want. If the majority doesn't want to live in a MAFIA-STATE it's not right to force them..
If the European Union really want to have a Mafia-state in your own backyard why don't let Thaci and co (Us) going ahead by yourself without involving others..

Look at the bigger picture, NATO has tryed for years to surround Russia with regime change, troops & hostile client-puppets from Balticum to Kyrgyzitstan. It has gained nothing as their aggression are being rolled back by Moscow and the ultimate blow to NATO came with russias check mate in the caucasus. NATO fled with their tails between their legs when their tie-eating proxy in Georgia tryed to provoke the bear.

The cowards wouldnt start ww3 for Saakaswili and could do nothing. They could do even less in Kosovo but seems hell-bent on starting another war there anyway. Why is that? Well they sure have their more-than-obedient puppet regime in Belgrade but Serbs have fought foreign occupants for centuries regardless of current regime and would do so again.

Mirub Jager,

You are a true prophet and do you work by any change for EULEX? This plan is a recipe for serious trouble and I support the Serbs in Kosovo 1000% in their resistance to be controlled by the war criminals and drug lords in Pristina and their colonial masters in Washington DC, Berlin, and Brussels. After 500 years of Ottoman occupation and oppression there will be no more Orthodox Christian Serbs being ruled by Muslim Albanians, period. This ISG and ICO are indeed nothing more than NATO departments in a civil disguise. It is completely disgusting as is the arrogance of many Albanian commentators here. You cannot accomplish anything by yourself and just because of that you do not deserve independence. You are nothing more that a big collection of welfare recipients. Soon the west will be sick of you and finally realize what a big waste of money it all has been. And Peter Feith, he will have his day in court one day.

What are you going to do now? Cause conflict and instability?
(Zoran, 9 February 2010 09:37) So profound that is exactly what the Serbs did all over they are correcting the Serbs. The difference is Serbia has to dance to their tune thats what they are playing if you like it or not. Live and learn Serbs had a chance to be leaders but they blown it big time with their neighbours and the wider world in many ways still doing it.

I fail to understand why they want to force the North to accept something that they themselves didn't want to accept!

Truly disturbing...
(The Swiss, 9 February 2010 10:16)
I take this as an admission that you feel it is wrong for Serbia to want to reintegrate Kosovo against the will of the people.
(pss, 9 February 2010 14:36)

Albanians in Kosovo live on SERBIA's land. If this was Serbs in Albania then by all means do what you want in your country.

White Schengen was giveaway to Serbia from EU, so Serbia has to pay for it somehow.

As far as I can recall the strategy for North was made public after W.Schengen was given to Serbia and I think that these two are linked. Anyhow, I don understand why some posters in here are disputing such arrangments between Serbia and EU, when we know what happend in Krajina and Bosnia. In both situations Serbia proper let them down big time.

Kosovo will be independent and north will be part of it. As an "insider" I can asure you that the gossip has it that the NATO troop reduction was made only after Serb garantees of no violent protest even if Integration Plan unfolds. The Nato troop concentration specifically in the north has no other purpose but enforce the Plan.

The saying; Money talks, BS walks has taken place in north. Soon the EU will reveal a far-reaching investment plan to include huge employment, infrastructure rebuilding, foreign investment blueprint, placement of an EU important agency HQ in northern part. This is something that already got the green light from Serbia in exchange for a share of electrical power market in Kosovo. Serbian Energy Corp will get the right to grid into northern Kosovo. The residents will have a regional choice of power supply. The Kosovo Gov't will get loan funds to build a new power plant to compete for customers, without Albania's assistance on supply side.

To my dismay, some posters will confront this plan wich will guarantee almost full employment of the whole north and south Mitrovica, integrate population into an economically viable society instead of divisive one. After all, even Europe needs its cheap labor.

I warned you weeks ahead of the 'Integration Plan', as I did on troop placement. A month ago I warned you of the blueprint for Serbia's direct EU membership in exchange for no "behind the doors" opposition to Kosovo's UN membership without recognisition by Serbia. Only then Russia started to make noise to awake the people's sentiment against the Serbian Gov't; not to join NATO for you will loose Kosovo, will change our stand on Kosovo if Serbia becomes Euro-integrated (these are titles you've seen on B92 too).

This chess game will continue until all The Balkans will be fully integrated into EU, the borders will mean nothing and economical reason will reign throughout.

I have to drive up north now.

I also fail to understand why Serbia want to force Kosovo to accept something that they themselves didn't want to accept!

That's truly disturbing...

I fail to understand why they want to force the North to accept something that they themselves didn't want to accept!

Truly disturbing...
(The Swiss, 9 February 2010 10:16)
I take this as an admission that you feel it is wrong for Serbia to want to reintegrate Kosovo against the will of the people.

Mirub, two things in response to your overly optimistic comment:

1. If you're going to lie, make sure you lie convincingly

2. If you have to drive to the north, make sure you change your plates from KS to KM

Good luck with your little Anchluss. Let me know if you find any Kosovars up there.

To Mike:
In North of Kosova(Mitrovica)live Kosovars also , I know a lot of albanians (Kosovars) there.
But how things is going according of North Kosovo integration plan will come more and more , be sure 100 %.
Cheers

"I fail to understand why they want to force the North to accept something that they themselves didn't want to accept!

Truly disturbing... "
(The Swiss)

-- What's even worse is that it forces Serbs in Kosovo to actually regress. There is nothing beneficial for them to join with Pristina.

Why would Kosovo Serbs, particularly Kosovo Serbs of the north that enjoy all rights and benefits of being part of the rest of Serbia, want to integrate with an entity that is

a) politically corrupt
b) economically backward
c) institutionally dysfunctional
d) socially hierarchical?

Why would Serbs want to join an entity that has no chance of joining the EU, let alone the UN? Why would Serbs want to give up their access to Belgrade for access to a state where they know they will be second class citizens with little to no mobility? Why would they want to "improve" their standards of living when the standards of living in Kosovo are some of the lowest in Europe? Why would Serbs want to join an entity when the theoretical citizens of that very same entity goes to Gracanica to get Serbian biometric passports in order to travel out the the region?

In other words, and this is something no one has been able to properly answer: what could Pristina offer the K Serbs that Belgrade can't or isn't? In the same rationale Albanians asked in 2008: why should I be a minority in your country when I can have a country of my own? In my opinion, there is not a single solitary reason why it would be better for the Serbs to join Pristina. What has Pristina ever done for them? Clearly the officials in Vienna are still forcing themselves to look at Kosovo through rose-tinted glasses. If the Albanians want their own institutions, let them have it. I couldn't care less. But if the Serbs want no part of those institutions, why should they be forced into a state when the Albanians weren't forced into a state?

So if I'm understanding the logic used here that no Serb can live under Albanian rule then it's fair to say all Serbs are for Kosova's independence since the same is true as well, no Albanian can live under Serb rule.

And while you can take North of Ibar please don't foget to swap it for Presheva valley. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

We cann all live happily everafter.

Stefano, in a way you must have been blind the last few months, if there was a fight against Mafia it took place with involvement of a lot of Serbian Mafia-criminals all over the world.

One thing what Serbia and his ministers won't see, is the fact that, even if new negotiations would occur and Kosovo would be a 'more than autonomous province' of Serbia, by their stance they have created such an even wider gap between Serbs and Albanians that the situation in Kosovo will be unbearable. In this Serbian stubborn way it won't work at all!!

PRN wrote:

"Kosova is moving forward. No obstacles foreseen"

It sounds very much like weather forecast "No rain expected". Make sure you take an umbrella with, you'll need it for certain.

I agree with other posters that the ISG is from the same camp as NATO. It is there to implement the Ahtisaari Plan which has not been passed by the UN.

The main criteria for joining the ISG is recognition of independence, therefore as a body it is in direct conflict with the agreed status neutrality of the UN and EULEX.

The only authority resides with the UN under Resolution 1244 and all other legitimate bodies come under this umbrella.

The ISG is just a place to go for the usual suspects who hold no official role but want to try and dabble from the sidelines.

They are just like gatecrashers hoping that nobody will notice, but Russia certainly has and will not tolerate this sort of self-appointed power.

Pristina may have adopted the A Plan as a major part of its constitution but it has not in reality been passed by any legitimate process.

On a slightly different issue, I don't believe that Serbia should join Nato under any circumstances.

Whistling in the wind.

It is fairly clear that Pristina will not rule in the north.

I wonder if they will ever be allowed to rule in the south either

"Kosovo will be independent and north will be part of it. As an "insider" I can asure you that the gossip has it that the NATO troop reduction was made only after Serb garantees of no violent protest even if Integration Plan unfolds. The Nato troop concentration specifically in the north has no other purpose but enforce the Plan."

Mirub,

You sound like someone who works in a rather minor position for EULEX but tries so hard to act like he is in the know. Look at your above statement - see how ridiculous it is? Who thinks Belgrade can guarantee anything regarding protests by the very Serbs this plan affects? And NATO agreed to reduce troop numbers based upon this phantom guarantee? Ha! This is beyond ridiculous.

Secondly, EPS has already been supplying power (with almost zero interruptions at a lower price) in the north so don't wait for it to rain then predict rain showers.

I cannot wait to see by the end of April that your beloved KSF has no footing north of the Ibar. It will prove you have little notion of reality but plenty of hopes and dreams.

This is something that already got the green light from Serbia in exchange for a share of electrical power market in Kosovo. Serbian Energy Corp will get the right to grid into northern Kosovo.
(Mirub Jager, 9 February 2010 15:47)
--
Mirub, EPS is already in the North and hooked up to the grid. But, I wouldn't put much past this DS government to do something like that. They were put into power by Otpor (NATO creation) in the first place. Many former Otpor members are now part of the DS. However, they will have to deal with the people if they try something too smart. Lets wait and see what happens - Serbians, as a people, will not sell their soul for thirty pieces of silver.

Anyway, some background on the seeds of the DS and Otpor. Yes, they have already received thirty pieces of silver.
==
Otpor was a recipient of substantial funds from U.S. government affiliated organizations such as the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), International Republican Institute (IRI), and US Agency for International Development (USAID).

Paul B. McCarthy from the Washington-based NED stated that Otpor received the majority of US$3 million spent by NED in Serbia from September 1998 until October 2000.

Just how much of the US$25 million, appropriated in the year 2000 by USAID, for the purposes of bringing down Milošević, went to Otpor is not clear. Donald L. Pressley, the assistant administrator at USAID said that several hundred thousand dollars were given to Otpor directly for "demonstration-support material, like T-shirts and stickers".

A group of activists made one trip to Budapest in neighbouring Hungary in June 2000 to attend a lecture by retired US Army Col. Robert Helvey, a colleague of Sharp, who was later portrayed as the "creator" of Otpor.

Here, check http://tinyurl.com/ydlbh8z

Now what would an eastern Anatolian know about the Carpathians.

"Vienna meeting backs plan for north"

Wow what a surpirse, NOT!

This chess game will continue until all The Balkans will be fully integrated into EU, the borders will mean nothing and economical reason will reign throughout.
(Mirub Jager, 9 February 2010 15:47)

Pretty funny chess game is it: you create new borders and pull new countrylets (like Montenegro) out of blue sky - just to remove them later?

Why not work on a "better union" right a way? Just study the history of USA.
BTW: unlike for USA, I am not really sure, that "EU" will exist for extended period of time or if yes, than in what form.

As for "working permits", "visas", "passports" and other BS: it's worth to remember, these DID NOT EXIST in the entire Europe before WW-I. The travel used to be "borderless" but there wasn't "EU".

As for "economical reason": please be first and give up your dearest Fränkli. Just adopt Euro and don't use that over-hyped, over-valued speculative money. Now 1:1 with USD - what a joke.

"Stefano, in a way you must have been blind the last few months, if there was a fight against Mafia it took place with involvement of a lot of Serbian Mafia-criminals all over the world. (cees)"

It's doesnt mean that in kosovo doesn't exist the mafia.The difference is that in Serbia the police is fighting against mafia day by day and in kosovo the political leaders represent the mafia so it's hard to fight against yourself!
I'm all but blind, maybe someone who believe that kosovo could stay alone without a watchdog . .

So if I'm understanding the logic used here that no Serb can live under Albanian rule then it's fair to say all Serbs are for Kosova's independence since the same is true as well, no Albanian can live under Serb rule.

And while you can take North of Ibar please don't foget to swap it for Presheva valley. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

We cann all live happily everafter.
(Zoti, 9 February 2010 21:52)

What a tired argument, Zoti. Serbia proper does not have its integrity questioned by the international community. Kosovo is what is in question here. You get nothing in Presevo because it has been decided back when the terrorists tried to start a war there. Remember what happened? They were told to sit down and shut up... or risk a severe beating at the hands of Serbian military and police.

The north of Kosovo is what is being discussed now, so forget Presevo.

-- One slight amendment to your proposal: how about all Serb municipalities in Kosovo (not just the north)follow their own plan, and Albanian municipalities follow theirs? We don't need to include Presevo because it's not part of Kosovo, and as we all know, borders can't be changed. Sad, I know and I wish it were different, but that's the world we live in.
(Mike)

Mike, are you implying that Serbia recognize Kosova's independence and then have Serb municipalities self-govern? Or are you for keeping Albanians still under Serb control with maximum self-governing powers.

I can tell you no Albanian wants Serb rule. That is a moot point for us.

Where I think Albanians should be flexible is in giving the areas North of Ibar to Serbia and keep the Serb areas South of it. It's practically impossible to leave thsoe areas under Serb control and laughable when you are trying to claim territorial sovereignty.

Ideally I'd like to see Albania and Kosovar Albania join in one state as I have no problem seeing Serbia take North of Ibar and RS. I wouldn't mind bringing the Albanian lands in Macedonia under Tirana's control as well.

What I'm adovcating for should have been done 100 years ago, instead they carved Albania's territories and we've been trying for 100 years to right the historical wrongs.

Interethnic co-existence alla Belgium is impossible in the Balkans. It's time to end the experiment.

'To my dismay, some posters will confront this plan wich will guarantee almost full employment'

Can we guarantee that in Britain, Germany and France too?

As we say, what a rocket!

"And while you can take North of Ibar please don't foget to swap it for Presheva valley. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. We cann all live happily everafter."
(Zoti)

-- One slight amendment to your proposal: how about all Serb municipalities in Kosovo (not just the north)follow their own plan, and Albanian municipalities follow theirs? We don't need to include Presevo because it's not part of Kosovo, and as we all know, borders can't be changed. Sad, I know and I wish it were different, but that's the world we live in.

Zoti, what I'm implying (more like hypothesizing because neither of our ideas are going to fly - God forbid practicality gets in the way of a solution) would ideally be the following:

Kosovo as the configuration it is now be designated "international territory", or "mandate" or whatever. I say this because efforts at establishing formal sovereignty just won't feasibly happen, but that should not impede progress and development of its people. Serb municipalities be placed under formal jurisdiction of Belgrade, while Albanian municipalities either chart their own course, definitively severed from Belgrade (that's what's been wanted all along) or if they wish, form similar links with Tirana (if it's good for Belgrade, it has to be good for Tirana - fair is fair).

Ideally for me, I'm not in favor of any border change and I'd like all of Kosovo to be in Serbia, but that's just not going to happen and its just going to drag the rest of Serbia down. So if I can make peace with the fact that large parts of Kosovo are effectively "gone", it can't be that hard for the opposing side to make peace with relinquishing the 8 or so Serb municipalities (the north and Gracanica are no brainers, while the others are for practical reasons and bode no political or economic loss to Pristina). I'm not in favor of additional border changes that would screw with Macedonia, Montenegro or Bosnia. They've got their own problems as it is. Yes, I'd like RS to be part of Serbia, but that's far too risky. The minute we go crazy redrawing borders all over the place other players want in on the action too. Let's just keep it focused on Kosovo and leave whatever Greater "X" existed 100 years ago to the history books. Those things rarely happen peacefully.

Thoughts?

Kosovo as the configuration it is now be designated "international territory", or "mandate" or whatever. I say this because efforts at establishing formal sovereignty just won't feasibly happen, but that should not impede progress and development of its people. Serb municipalities be placed under formal jurisdiction of Belgrade, while Albanian municipalities either chart their own course, definitively severed from Belgrade (that's what's been wanted all along) or if they wish, form similar links with Tirana (if it's good for Belgrade, it has to be good for Tirana - fair is fair).

Ideally for me, I'm not in favor of any border change and I'd like all of Kosovo to be in Serbia, but that's just not going to happen and its just going to drag the rest of Serbia down. So if I can make peace with the fact that large parts of Kosovo are effectively "gone", it can't be that hard for the opposing side to make peace with relinquishing the 8 or so Serb municipalities (the north and Gracanica are no brainers, while the others are for practical reasons and bode no political or economic loss to Pristina). I'm not in favor of additional border changes that would screw with Macedonia, Montenegro or Bosnia. They've got their own problems as it is. Yes, I'd like RS to be part of Serbia, but that's far too risky. The minute we go crazy redrawing borders all over the place other players want in on the action too. Let's just keep it focused on Kosovo and leave whatever Greater "X" existed 100 years ago to the history books. Those things rarely happen peacefully.

Thoughts?
(Mike)

In an ideal world I'd agree with everything you just said. My main concern is the welfare of the people and not fulfilling some "greater Albanian" dream. My rhetoric sometimes may show otherwise but that's because hypernationalism gets the best of us at times.

I only advocate redrawing of the borders sollely to avoid interethnic conflict in the future. The Blakns have always been and will always be a powder keg and ethnically homogenous states may be the solution to ever lasting peace.

Look at what's happened to Africa where the Europeans drew borders with complete disregard of the ethnicity of the tribes within those straight lines and the countries are mired in neverending conclicts. Imagine if the Hutu and the Tutsis lived in two separate countires as oppsed to one, there'd never been a genocide of a million people.

Serb municipalities be placed under formal jurisdiction of Belgrade, while Albanian municipalities either chart their own course, definitively severed from Belgrade (that's what's been wanted all along) or if they wish, form similar links with Tirana (if it's good for Belgrade, it has to be good for Tirana - fair is fair)