Toulouse fan still in critical condition

It is amazing that almost all comments here end up in Kosovo Serbs vs. Kosovo Albanians fights no matter what news we are discussing! For Serbs - accept faults of your own people (not all Serbs are good just because they are Serbs), for Albanian side - accept that Serbs are people like any other (not all Serbs are bad just because they are Serbs). Grow up and try to learn about each other. After all, national 'purity' does not exist in Europe and when you insult another nation, it is very likely you are insulting one of your ancestors. Think about that you big Serbs and big Albanians!

Let's pray for a speedy recovery for the victim.

Now I wait for one of the resident hate-mongers to opine... who will it be? Kosovo-USA, Arta, or Ben?

Hopefully I will be wrong on this one.

Here I come Jason,
Before this poore French it was a Brit, who will be next an American?

I have been to Belgrade many times and I have never seen or encountered any violence, either pre 99 or post 99.

I was speaking English the whole time, and people weren't even rude to me. Quite the opposite.

I also met Albanian people there, as well as other nationalities, and they had lived without threat in Belgrade during the Kosovo war.

Smulan: Slightly off topic, but even if the UN translator who was murdered was killed in 1999 - Kosovo was supposed to be a protectorate by then. There was no excuse of 'revenge' killings.

Same goes for the poor elderly people who were taken out of their car and beaten to death, the children shot by the river, or the farmers murdered in a field. NONE of these are excusable as 'revenge', any more than any other murder or crime.

Funny to read albanian comment about this issue. They are making a hooligan fight into a politica issue. Why don't albanians comment on british, dutch, german or italian hooligans? This is nothing more and nothing less than a fight between hooligans. Albanians don't have any soccerteam worth mentioning. As a matter of fact albanians don't have any culture within sports that why you don't have any supporters that could and would have a hooligan mentality. Instead of that you take your anger and frustration out on forums like this where you on a daily basis make unrealistic and made up stories of hate. I feel sorry for Serbs and other non-albanians in Kosovo who have you as neighbors.

Smulan

You never commented the american/bulgarian international killed in Pristina. As soon as you are faced with evidence you go and hide.

Of course it's terrible, and there is no excuse for mindless violence. I hope that both the French and the British victims of recent thuggery recover and the perpetrators are caught.

As far as I understand it the British man was hit accidentally during a gang shooting, which isn't the same as this case.

As as for the comments from Kosovo-USA etc. above, as Dave said yesterday an American guy was publicly lynched for answering a question in Serbian in Pristina not so long ago, and numerous innocent people are subjected to brutality on a regular basis just because they are Serbian.

This hopefully is an isolated incident which could happen anywhere in a major city.

Got what he deserved, american_in_serbia? What a contemptible thing to say! The french guy is on a life support machine. Your views are beneath contempt. You certainly don’t belong among decent people – you bring shame upon the notion of civilisation.
GRUK

These hooligans are living in the past. And if you live by your rules you shouldn't be attacking normal fans! Total scumbags.

Guys, dont forget that Arkan was DELIJE's leader, before those DELIJE's became TIGERs and massacred people in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo.
Jason my be joking in here, but things can turn very serious in Balkans quickly.
(Olf, 18 September 2009 12:02)

Did you find the exit of the box??

to the kosovo-usa rolandi and co's

When are you going once in your life to leave your hatry aside!!

A few weeks back a train was destroyed in the Zurich railway station and 20 people ended up in the hospital after a fight broke between two "fans" team.

This is one more time a terrible happening that unfortunately and to often the football worldwilde "fans" offer us.

This people have nothing to do with sport and should end up in the shade for a while to cool down their head.

For those that say this can happen in any city. Rubbish, Belgrade has a massive problem with this.
(Irnbru, 18 September 2009 11:36)

Irn bru,

Is this the same logic we apply to Rangers fans after their rampage through Manchester last year. My own Glasgow has a horrendous problem when the 'Old Firm' play. Most European cities on match days see some degree of violence especially Italy, Holland and France. It's even creeping back into England after a number of quiet years.
To say their is a massive problem in Belgrade show's just what little knowledge of Belgrade you have. I have been to the Marakana on a derby day and saw nothing different to what I've seen a thousand times on the streets of Glasgow on match day.

There are football hooligans and fights all the time in many countries in Europe.

Troikamel: You even use this an excuse to berate Serbian health care? You really are full of hate in many if your comments.

I am sure that the French and Serbian fans who were injured will receive perfectly good treatment in Belgrade.

I hate to have to give my input on this, however Belgrade does have a history of violence against foreigners. They have been hearing their politicians for decades how foreigners are trying to control their country and tear it in pieces and so on. No wonder these young hooligans think that it is patriotic to kill a foreign guest.

hi everyone.

will the ever be peace among us. serbs vs albanins, i have serbian friends here in london, we get along very well, why cant we get along back home like we do when we are out of our countries.

PS i lost first 3 cousins during the war by the way, but they where killed by miloshevicis regime (not all serbs are bad here). no comments for Mikec, peggy, and co who always think of us albanian as worst national on face of the earth. but thakns god its only there opinion,

Peace to all



regards

Berat

this is not first time happen in serbia serbia is getin place of violence

made Siwss earn a warning from EC regarding the treatment of foregners in Swiss?
I think that you are a Serb, but please do no feel insulted like Jason did the other day.
(Olf, 18 September 2009 13:24)

As always your comments are hardly readable, so confusing and empty of any sense.

First I suggest to read my post again, because it looks like you either did not understand english properly or you read the comment upside down.

Second I am against any kind of violence whatsoever from whoever, equallay I am against disrespect of international laws, therefore against the illegal UDI

Third you are welcome to travel to my home town in Switzerland and check the archives of my family background since the 13th century, this being said, I would glady accept if Mr Tadic would hand me a Serbian passport :)

Fourth I'm against the Swiss policy towards the foreigners, meaning that the "refugees" drug dealers, pims etc (mainly west africans and k-a) that deserve to be kicked out are still there and the one that deserve to get our passport are being anoyed with our system making their life difficult.

Fifth am glad that we are not in the messy EU and will always vote against it as long as I have strenght to do so

and last but not least I suggest you to get some fresh air and get back to earth, it looks like you have been too long at the wrong place...

Cheers

Marinels

Unfortunately the wall between Serbs and Albanians are bigger then ever and it will last for a very long time. Serbs and Albanians in Europe and other parts of the world will and can be friends but I'm sure that both believe they are right when it comes to the politics regarding Kosovo. Serbs are vert suspisious of Albanians. Serbs have been thrown out from their own homeland. I'm not talking about what happend before but as we "speak". Serbs are still not allowed to return and Albanians expect Serbia to recognize that and legitimize the theft of territory that is hostorically Serb. There were no real negotiations over the status of Kosovo. It was an imposed solution. Albanians don't seem to want a real solution. They want the cake and eat it to. Well it doesn't work that way. However, its not entirely the fault of the Albanians but mostly the American who think they can sway their magic wand and everything is solved. Well, if there is going to be peace there needs to be an agreement. Both sides need to loose something to gain something in return. The current situation in Kosovo will become a permanet solution. Partition guarded and protected by Eulex and still no real peace between the people.

Sladjana,

I liked your comment very much and I totally agree with it. I have been usually very principled toward this issue and I still believe that it should be like that. During my study in Germany I knew some Serbs and we were really good friends since we never talked about the history and our past relations. That was good for the moment being but still I think that one day we should face the reality and to accept who we are and what we are looking for in the future. By looking at the comments here one can easily realize that Albanian commentators are far moderate than Serbian counterparts despite being in fairly not equal position. Let’s recall that there were Albanians who greatly suffered from the war caused by the Serbian military machine. This doesn’t mean that the Serbs didn’t suffer or the Albanians were the solely victims. I don’t want to play with the number or amounts but the Albanians suffered significantly more and only one who experienced the war could feel what it means.

On contrary the Serbian camp comprise mainly the Serbs outside Serbia who speak like twenty or even more years before. We should add some brainwashed Hungarians, Polish, Americans or whatever who for girlfriend matters are not sided with the usual Serbian cause but with the extremists. I respect all the opinion however I would like these people to contribute properly in order to make something positive here. On contrary they are putting more fuel on the fire often in the abusive manner. The real Serbian thinking I have seen only here. I have seen how the most of Serbs are labeling Albanians with some of the most dirty words. I am wondering how the Serbs still consider themselves as a high & open culture society when we see everyday what happened there, let alone isolated incidents on daily bases and the attitude of the neighborhood. They would like to comment on the first opportunity about how bad Kosovo is but they don’t like to be commented. Such kind of mentality is very dangerous in not seeing the other equally thus giving silly examples for some kind of overestimation.

Without this kind of contradictions I am sure that in this forum would be less Albanians. But the disinformation and the wrong attitude of Serbs makes many Albanian to come here and to condemn them. Some Serbs propose to build a wall between us. Well I don’t agree with such idea since on day we will belong to another society with different rules and we have to pull down the walls. However from what I read here I see that unfortunately the walls will be strong enough to keep us far from each other for a long time. Last but not least to be honest at all if the attitude of the majority of Serbs would be like that presented mostly here then I will contribute to the wall to be as strongest as possible. Albanians are looking in the future and we have pretty much free ways. The Serbs have been already isolated from the walls of hate around. It is up to you…..

"This hopefully is an isolated incident which could happen anywhere in a major city.
(kate, 18 September 2009 10:55)"

Kate, this line doesn't work in this case.

Irnbru - Maybe I worded it wrongly, but the point is that football hooliganism and related violence can spill over into serious incidents like this.

That can happen anywhere in Europe.

Hoolingan is a hooligan no matter what colour.
Guys, dont forget that Arkan was DELIJE's leader, before those DELIJE's became TIGERs and massacred people in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo.
Jason my be joking in here, but things can turn very serious in Balkans quickly.

"I can only imagine what happened was the French guys with their well-known rude attitude provoked the Serbian fans and they got what they deserved. A well known fact for all of ut. Check out:
[link]
(american_in_serbia, 18 September 2009 12:19)"

The most ill informed post so far.

Wishing all the worst to the hooligans, since they rightfully deserve it.
And to all the posters that try their best in depicting not only Belgrade but even the whole Serbia as the place of unsurpassed violence aimed at foreigners: last year Serbia was a host to Euro-vision and as recent as couple of months ago to Universiade (over 9500 participants from all over the world).Add the Exit and Guca to it. Any hostilities on the part of Serbian people? Casualties? Yes, a certain number of swain flu cases, mostly among Exit visitors. Some cases of overeating and excessive bier or sljivovica consumption in Guca.
Unable to curb your hatred?
Spare your gall-bladder, might burst.

For Kosova-USA and Krulan’s benefit, here are the links again. Try http://www.bulgaria-italia.com/fry/krumov.htm or http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/1999/oct/13/balkans.unitednations. And Krulan, October 1999 was long after the war finished. This barbarous incident caused a lot of people in Kosovo at the time, myself included, to start seriously reassessing who were the victims in the whole situation.

I can only imagine what happened was the French guys with their well-known rude attitude provoked the Serbian fans and they got what they deserved. A well known fact for all of ut. Check out:
http://www.france24.com/en/20090711-merde-are-french-tourists-really-so-rude-expedia-survey-tourism

Made in girders (cont)

If you think I’m anti Serb you are way off the mark. The first time I was in Belgrade was on the way to Skopje for the Scotland match. I was in that very pub the French fans were attacked in with 20 other Scotland fans. Luckily we were not playing in Belgrade so these hooligans were not looking for us. If they had known we were there maybe it would be me that was on life support. As it happened I had a great time in Belgrade. I’ve been back since and I’ve also had a Serb friend visit me twice. I love Belgrade and generally feel safe. However, I did and do have reservations about being an away supporter in Belgrade. It is the only place that I would and I have been to many places following Scotland.

Serbs have a bad enough imagine (sometimes unjustified) and these guys are perpetuating that bad image. The well-intentioned people saying it could happen anywhere are not doing any good. It’s a problem and it needs addressed. If they don’t it is better for Serbia’s image that they do not have international or European matches in Belgrade.

I think it is time to, at the very minimum, ban european and international matches in Belgrade. It's a shame for decent supporters but the authorities simply can't guarantee the safety of away fans.

I don't see why away supporters should have to be put under arrest in hotels for their safety as has happened in the past.

For those that say this can happen in any city. Rubbish, Belgrade has a massive problem with this.

Kate reamamber that in 1999 Kosovo was still in war. So of course you coulden't speak serbian in Prishtina. And I don't think you could speak albanian in Belgrade under that time. But it is long time ago 1999 it's 11 years ago and Kosovo has grown now. We have respect for people and we dont hurt them or kill them.

Do not compare Serbia with Kosovo because in Serbia people get's hurt often. Resolve your problems insted of ha blaiming albanians for your intolerance against other nationals.

Why do you recall an incident wich happend 1999 during the war in prishtina ? Do you think it going to make up all you wrongdoings*?`


It clearly showes that Belgrade is a dangerous place for foreigners.Smulan261@hotmail.com

The Swiss

I thought that all the troubles in Swiss are caused by foreigners-Kosovars. Could you imagine what could have happened if Kosovars were involvend in this incident?
Nevermind, to excuse Serb vandals and killers in streets of Belgrade you are comparing it with the fight in Swiss. hmmm are you really a Swiss, or you belong to those that made Siwss earn a warning from EC regarding the treatment of foregners in Swiss?
I think that you are a Serb, but please do no feel insulted like Jason did the other day.

new, so i shall take it upon myself to wish my people and our frnds "shana Tovah," happy new year. we are still alive, and we shall survive, despite all hopes to the contrary.

thank you.

roberto
frisco
robertoruss@yahoo.com
(roberto, 19 September 2009 06:07)

Reading your comment(s) makes me feel that your are either oppressed day after day or your like to wear that "oppressed and forgive them because they don't know what they do" type of skin.
In either case you like to carry that cross on your back and makes us believe that the all world is against you!
I have 100ds of jewish friends but never heard them crying like you do in every of your comments.
Stop the paranoia!

I just don't get it. Every comment posted by kosovo Albanians is full with hatred toward Serbia. It seems to me they wait to read about any negative event in Serbia to spread their hatred and to point that Serbia. They enjoy in that.
Man, that's sick!

They should clean their dirty house prior to leaving any comment referred to Serbia.

Shame that every week there are huligan storys like this.

How hard is it for police to spot 30+ group who are drunk and loud at foreignt bars?
They even make it easy with wearing their teams shirts and flags!

"Let's pray for a speedy recovery for the victim."

This was not a devine catastrophe, but a preventable scenario.
Airlift them to France for proper care.


"Now I wait for one of the resident hate-mongers to opine... who will it be? Kosovo-USA, Arta, or Ben?"

What do they have to do with this???
Would it change anything that tourist/fans have been beaten sensless?
A day after another one was shot?

Catch the hoolongans or dont play football. The English and others have been baned from international's before, for radicals like these, so should Serbs in case this goes on. Football is a game that connects the world, surely not this way tho.

Ps: whats with the "war monger" comment?? what doeas it have to do with huligans?

Hi Made from girders,

I tried to reply at length earlier but I think I exceeded the word limit.

I do not agree with your parallels. Violence from organized firms is almost non-existent at old firm games. 15 innocent Toulouse fans would not be attacked in Glasgow. Can you tell me any time when innocent foreign fans have been attacked in Glasgow? To my eternal shame, I was arrested several times in my youth and I have a football related conviction. 25 years on I still see people from time to time who are involved in that scene. Recent incidents in Glasgow both involved Partick Thistle believe it or not.

Now you seriously want to compare that to the firms in Belgrade? That is a whole different league! Unless someone from Belgrade wants to tell me otherwise, the leaders of these groups are powerful, there are mafia links and you lads look up to them. The police don’t seem to be able to take on the leaders, for now anyway.

This is what happened last night - Serb hooligans go looking for the French to fight. They find a small group of normal fans, they attack them, one is on life support. They did not get caught up with two mobs fighting. It was an attack on innocent fans miles from the stadium. It wasn’t even a fight. The Serb that was injured was the barman trying to defend the French guys.

Belgrade is very dangerous for foreign football fans. Much more than the places you mention. They even had to basically put Bolton and Newcastle fans under arrest for their own safety. How you can say otherwise astonishes me. But obviously you think being at a derby match as a neutral justifies you telling me I know nothing.

Cont.

Serbian tradition 30 in one they are very dangerous specialy if you turn your back on them but they are very educated one in one.

For Kosova-USA and Krulan’s benefit, here are the links again. Try [link] or [link]. And Krulan, October 1999 was long after the war finished. This barbarous incident caused a lot of people in Kosovo at the time, myself included, to start seriously reassessing who were the victims in the whole situation.
(Dave, 18 September 2009 18:26)

Ej dave someone ese used your name , but they said that an american was lynched while ago. Never mentioned 1999, since I was in NYC and and 1999 was war time in Kosova. Therefore get off the subject and go learn some manners and stop spreading propaganda.

I with him a speedy recovery too.

Mind you if you youtube some die hard serb fans chanting at the Zimbabwe players it's amazing, and you know the worst part Zimbabwe is an allay of serbia.

Anyway just kdding it's firday! woohoo

'an American guy was publicly lynched for answering a question in Serbian in Pristina not so long ago, '

Ten years is "not so long ago"?

As as for the comments from Kosovo-USA etc. above, as Dave said yesterday an American guy was publicly lynched for answering a question in Serbian in Pristina not so long ago, and numerous innocent people are subjected to brutality on a regular basis just because they are Serbian.

This hopefully is an isolated incident which could happen anywhere in a major city.
(kate, 18 September 2009 10:55)

"American guy was publicly lynched "

Can you please tell us all who is this poor guy (I mean he is dead now since he has been hanged),when it happened and where???

Maybe you are still watching those good old western movies.

btw I had a typo in the earlier post which should have read:

"Now you seriously want to compare that to the firms in Belgrade? That is a whole different league! Unless someone from Belgrade wants to tell me otherwise, the leaders of these groups are powerful, there HAVE mafia links and youNG lads look up to them. The police don’t seem to be able to take on the leaders, for now anyway."

this is what happens when hooligans travel abroad to create anarchy in another peaceful country.God bless Kosmet.

Irnbru,

While for most I agree with your comments I would not restrict this kind of organization and build up of soccer fans only to Serbia.The phenomenon you described is characteristic to some groups in south and eastern Europe as well as south and latin america altzhoug the leaders and subleaders are maybe not as powerful as in Serbia,but in general it is not rare in our region that foreign fans are attacked far from stadium(Despite being a former football hool myself similarly to you I highly condem this complatly unnneccesary phenomenon).Perhaps you also remember the incidents of english fans stubbed to death in Istanbul However to say as some do here that this can happen anywhere in the world is a little exegeration .And really the nature and background of the incidents mentioned by others is a bit different.However I would also have alook at bright side of this well organized fan groups .The coreography the songs the atmosphere these army-like groups such as DElije ,Gate 7 or Ultra Aslans create are unique and true narcotics to those who like visit matches.I try to attend all Belgrade derbies and Important Zvezda matches.(and the same applies to Old Firm now that Ryanair launched its Budapest-Glasgow flight at affordable price):Not long ago I watched Zvezda-Rangers CL qualifier wearing Celtic green-white jersey signed by Boruc himself from the middle of Marakana Sever and people were mad about it in a positive sense.Otherwise good luck to Jags.

Ej Kosovo-USA. Look up "lynched" - it means murdered by a mob, not hanged. as you appear to think. The October 1999 reference was for Krulan's benefit - he/she was sure it must have been during the war. Really can't handle the truth when it comes up and shakes by the hand, can you? One of the best days of my life when I left that dump.

# Got what he deserved, american_in_serbia? What a contemptible thing to say! The french guy is on a life support machine. Your views are beneath contempt. You certainly don’t belong among decent people – you bring shame upon the notion of civilisation.
GRUK
(GRUK, 18 September 2009 13:54)

thank you, gruk, as always.

many of the comments here are contemptible, but those of the self-proclaimed americans (my country- people??) are among the worst and lowest.

please -- they do NOT represent the US in any way, but the very worst elements of this country, and every country produces its rotten apples. but anyway, i apologize for them.

we have to condemn this violence, which has its history and pattern in serbia, but which we can see, in slices, throughout the world. are we really civilized, or is it just fun to pretend so?

BTW, what a surprise, i do not believe that anyone mentioned today is the first night of rosh hashanah, the jewish new year, celebrated by jews around the world. i reminded people here a few weeks ago, but what else is new, so i shall take it upon myself to wish my people and our frnds "shana Tovah," happy new year. we are still alive, and we shall survive, despite all hopes to the contrary.

thank you.

roberto
frisco
robertoruss@yahoo.com

'Ej Kosovo-USA. Look up "lynched" - it means murdered by a mob, not hanged. as you appear to think. '

Lynch = "execute without a trial (especially by hanging)."

= "To punish (a person) without legal process or authority, especially by hanging, for a perceived offense or as an act of bigotry."

For an American, lynching does imply hanging, since this was the method usually used here. I don't remember ever seeing it used by an American for any other method - "killed by mob violence" would probably be used for shootings, necklace burnings, etc.

For Serbs - accept faults of your own people (not all Serbs are good just because they are Serbs), for Albanian side - accept that Serbs are people like any other (not all Serbs are bad just because they are Serbs). Grow up and try to learn about each other. After all, national 'purity' does not exist in Europe and when you insult another nation, it is very likely you are insulting one of your ancestors. Think about that you big Serbs and big Albanians!
(Sladjana, 18 September 2009 14:42)
what a stupid biased comment " for Albanian side - accept that Serbs are people like any other (not all Serbs are bad".Another Serb basher trying to hide her rascist views.
"national purity doesnt exist" spoken like a true EU propagandist.Every country in Europe is distinctly different from one another that is what makes it beautiful.So remember SErbs not all albanians are murderers and drug dealers NOT.God bless Serbia.

Here I come Jason,
Before this poore French it was a Brit, who will be next an American?

this is not first time happen in serbia serbia is getin place of violence

I hate to have to give my input on this, however Belgrade does have a history of violence against foreigners. They have been hearing their politicians for decades how foreigners are trying to control their country and tear it in pieces and so on. No wonder these young hooligans think that it is patriotic to kill a foreign guest.

Kate reamamber that in 1999 Kosovo was still in war. So of course you coulden't speak serbian in Prishtina. And I don't think you could speak albanian in Belgrade under that time. But it is long time ago 1999 it's 11 years ago and Kosovo has grown now. We have respect for people and we dont hurt them or kill them.

Do not compare Serbia with Kosovo because in Serbia people get's hurt often. Resolve your problems insted of ha blaiming albanians for your intolerance against other nationals.

Why do you recall an incident wich happend 1999 during the war in prishtina ? Do you think it going to make up all you wrongdoings*?`


It clearly showes that Belgrade is a dangerous place for foreigners.Smulan261@hotmail.com

Let's pray for a speedy recovery for the victim.

Now I wait for one of the resident hate-mongers to opine... who will it be? Kosovo-USA, Arta, or Ben?

Hopefully I will be wrong on this one.

As as for the comments from Kosovo-USA etc. above, as Dave said yesterday an American guy was publicly lynched for answering a question in Serbian in Pristina not so long ago, and numerous innocent people are subjected to brutality on a regular basis just because they are Serbian.

This hopefully is an isolated incident which could happen anywhere in a major city.
(kate, 18 September 2009 10:55)

"American guy was publicly lynched "

Can you please tell us all who is this poor guy (I mean he is dead now since he has been hanged),when it happened and where???

Maybe you are still watching those good old western movies.

Hoolingan is a hooligan no matter what colour.
Guys, dont forget that Arkan was DELIJE's leader, before those DELIJE's became TIGERs and massacred people in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo.
Jason my be joking in here, but things can turn very serious in Balkans quickly.

For Kosova-USA and Krulan’s benefit, here are the links again. Try [link] or [link]. And Krulan, October 1999 was long after the war finished. This barbarous incident caused a lot of people in Kosovo at the time, myself included, to start seriously reassessing who were the victims in the whole situation.
(Dave, 18 September 2009 18:26)

Ej dave someone ese used your name , but they said that an american was lynched while ago. Never mentioned 1999, since I was in NYC and and 1999 was war time in Kosova. Therefore get off the subject and go learn some manners and stop spreading propaganda.

The Swiss

I thought that all the troubles in Swiss are caused by foreigners-Kosovars. Could you imagine what could have happened if Kosovars were involvend in this incident?
Nevermind, to excuse Serb vandals and killers in streets of Belgrade you are comparing it with the fight in Swiss. hmmm are you really a Swiss, or you belong to those that made Siwss earn a warning from EC regarding the treatment of foregners in Swiss?
I think that you are a Serb, but please do no feel insulted like Jason did the other day.

"This hopefully is an isolated incident which could happen anywhere in a major city.
(kate, 18 September 2009 10:55)"

Kate, this line doesn't work in this case.

Sladjana,

I liked your comment very much and I totally agree with it. I have been usually very principled toward this issue and I still believe that it should be like that. During my study in Germany I knew some Serbs and we were really good friends since we never talked about the history and our past relations. That was good for the moment being but still I think that one day we should face the reality and to accept who we are and what we are looking for in the future. By looking at the comments here one can easily realize that Albanian commentators are far moderate than Serbian counterparts despite being in fairly not equal position. Let’s recall that there were Albanians who greatly suffered from the war caused by the Serbian military machine. This doesn’t mean that the Serbs didn’t suffer or the Albanians were the solely victims. I don’t want to play with the number or amounts but the Albanians suffered significantly more and only one who experienced the war could feel what it means.

On contrary the Serbian camp comprise mainly the Serbs outside Serbia who speak like twenty or even more years before. We should add some brainwashed Hungarians, Polish, Americans or whatever who for girlfriend matters are not sided with the usual Serbian cause but with the extremists. I respect all the opinion however I would like these people to contribute properly in order to make something positive here. On contrary they are putting more fuel on the fire often in the abusive manner. The real Serbian thinking I have seen only here. I have seen how the most of Serbs are labeling Albanians with some of the most dirty words. I am wondering how the Serbs still consider themselves as a high & open culture society when we see everyday what happened there, let alone isolated incidents on daily bases and the attitude of the neighborhood. They would like to comment on the first opportunity about how bad Kosovo is but they don’t like to be commented. Such kind of mentality is very dangerous in not seeing the other equally thus giving silly examples for some kind of overestimation.

Without this kind of contradictions I am sure that in this forum would be less Albanians. But the disinformation and the wrong attitude of Serbs makes many Albanian to come here and to condemn them. Some Serbs propose to build a wall between us. Well I don’t agree with such idea since on day we will belong to another society with different rules and we have to pull down the walls. However from what I read here I see that unfortunately the walls will be strong enough to keep us far from each other for a long time. Last but not least to be honest at all if the attitude of the majority of Serbs would be like that presented mostly here then I will contribute to the wall to be as strongest as possible. Albanians are looking in the future and we have pretty much free ways. The Serbs have been already isolated from the walls of hate around. It is up to you…..

I can only imagine what happened was the French guys with their well-known rude attitude provoked the Serbian fans and they got what they deserved. A well known fact for all of ut. Check out:
http://www.france24.com/en/20090711-merde-are-french-tourists-really-so-rude-expedia-survey-tourism

Serbian tradition 30 in one they are very dangerous specialy if you turn your back on them but they are very educated one in one.

I think it is time to, at the very minimum, ban european and international matches in Belgrade. It's a shame for decent supporters but the authorities simply can't guarantee the safety of away fans.

I don't see why away supporters should have to be put under arrest in hotels for their safety as has happened in the past.

For those that say this can happen in any city. Rubbish, Belgrade has a massive problem with this.

I with him a speedy recovery too.

Mind you if you youtube some die hard serb fans chanting at the Zimbabwe players it's amazing, and you know the worst part Zimbabwe is an allay of serbia.

Anyway just kdding it's firday! woohoo

hi everyone.

will the ever be peace among us. serbs vs albanins, i have serbian friends here in london, we get along very well, why cant we get along back home like we do when we are out of our countries.

PS i lost first 3 cousins during the war by the way, but they where killed by miloshevicis regime (not all serbs are bad here). no comments for Mikec, peggy, and co who always think of us albanian as worst national on face of the earth. but thakns god its only there opinion,

Peace to all



regards

Berat

Of course it's terrible, and there is no excuse for mindless violence. I hope that both the French and the British victims of recent thuggery recover and the perpetrators are caught.

As far as I understand it the British man was hit accidentally during a gang shooting, which isn't the same as this case.

As as for the comments from Kosovo-USA etc. above, as Dave said yesterday an American guy was publicly lynched for answering a question in Serbian in Pristina not so long ago, and numerous innocent people are subjected to brutality on a regular basis just because they are Serbian.

This hopefully is an isolated incident which could happen anywhere in a major city.

Funny to read albanian comment about this issue. They are making a hooligan fight into a politica issue. Why don't albanians comment on british, dutch, german or italian hooligans? This is nothing more and nothing less than a fight between hooligans. Albanians don't have any soccerteam worth mentioning. As a matter of fact albanians don't have any culture within sports that why you don't have any supporters that could and would have a hooligan mentality. Instead of that you take your anger and frustration out on forums like this where you on a daily basis make unrealistic and made up stories of hate. I feel sorry for Serbs and other non-albanians in Kosovo who have you as neighbors.

Smulan

You never commented the american/bulgarian international killed in Pristina. As soon as you are faced with evidence you go and hide.

this is what happens when hooligans travel abroad to create anarchy in another peaceful country.God bless Kosmet.

Shame that every week there are huligan storys like this.

How hard is it for police to spot 30+ group who are drunk and loud at foreignt bars?
They even make it easy with wearing their teams shirts and flags!

"Let's pray for a speedy recovery for the victim."

This was not a devine catastrophe, but a preventable scenario.
Airlift them to France for proper care.


"Now I wait for one of the resident hate-mongers to opine... who will it be? Kosovo-USA, Arta, or Ben?"

What do they have to do with this???
Would it change anything that tourist/fans have been beaten sensless?
A day after another one was shot?

Catch the hoolongans or dont play football. The English and others have been baned from international's before, for radicals like these, so should Serbs in case this goes on. Football is a game that connects the world, surely not this way tho.

Ps: whats with the "war monger" comment?? what doeas it have to do with huligans?

Hi Made from girders,

I tried to reply at length earlier but I think I exceeded the word limit.

I do not agree with your parallels. Violence from organized firms is almost non-existent at old firm games. 15 innocent Toulouse fans would not be attacked in Glasgow. Can you tell me any time when innocent foreign fans have been attacked in Glasgow? To my eternal shame, I was arrested several times in my youth and I have a football related conviction. 25 years on I still see people from time to time who are involved in that scene. Recent incidents in Glasgow both involved Partick Thistle believe it or not.

Now you seriously want to compare that to the firms in Belgrade? That is a whole different league! Unless someone from Belgrade wants to tell me otherwise, the leaders of these groups are powerful, there are mafia links and you lads look up to them. The police don’t seem to be able to take on the leaders, for now anyway.

This is what happened last night - Serb hooligans go looking for the French to fight. They find a small group of normal fans, they attack them, one is on life support. They did not get caught up with two mobs fighting. It was an attack on innocent fans miles from the stadium. It wasn’t even a fight. The Serb that was injured was the barman trying to defend the French guys.

Belgrade is very dangerous for foreign football fans. Much more than the places you mention. They even had to basically put Bolton and Newcastle fans under arrest for their own safety. How you can say otherwise astonishes me. But obviously you think being at a derby match as a neutral justifies you telling me I know nothing.

Cont.

"I can only imagine what happened was the French guys with their well-known rude attitude provoked the Serbian fans and they got what they deserved. A well known fact for all of ut. Check out:
[link]
(american_in_serbia, 18 September 2009 12:19)"

The most ill informed post so far.

made Siwss earn a warning from EC regarding the treatment of foregners in Swiss?
I think that you are a Serb, but please do no feel insulted like Jason did the other day.
(Olf, 18 September 2009 13:24)

As always your comments are hardly readable, so confusing and empty of any sense.

First I suggest to read my post again, because it looks like you either did not understand english properly or you read the comment upside down.

Second I am against any kind of violence whatsoever from whoever, equallay I am against disrespect of international laws, therefore against the illegal UDI

Third you are welcome to travel to my home town in Switzerland and check the archives of my family background since the 13th century, this being said, I would glady accept if Mr Tadic would hand me a Serbian passport :)

Fourth I'm against the Swiss policy towards the foreigners, meaning that the "refugees" drug dealers, pims etc (mainly west africans and k-a) that deserve to be kicked out are still there and the one that deserve to get our passport are being anoyed with our system making their life difficult.

Fifth am glad that we are not in the messy EU and will always vote against it as long as I have strenght to do so

and last but not least I suggest you to get some fresh air and get back to earth, it looks like you have been too long at the wrong place...

Cheers

These hooligans are living in the past. And if you live by your rules you shouldn't be attacking normal fans! Total scumbags.

There are football hooligans and fights all the time in many countries in Europe.

Troikamel: You even use this an excuse to berate Serbian health care? You really are full of hate in many if your comments.

I am sure that the French and Serbian fans who were injured will receive perfectly good treatment in Belgrade.

btw I had a typo in the earlier post which should have read:

"Now you seriously want to compare that to the firms in Belgrade? That is a whole different league! Unless someone from Belgrade wants to tell me otherwise, the leaders of these groups are powerful, there HAVE mafia links and youNG lads look up to them. The police don’t seem to be able to take on the leaders, for now anyway."

Marinels

Unfortunately the wall between Serbs and Albanians are bigger then ever and it will last for a very long time. Serbs and Albanians in Europe and other parts of the world will and can be friends but I'm sure that both believe they are right when it comes to the politics regarding Kosovo. Serbs are vert suspisious of Albanians. Serbs have been thrown out from their own homeland. I'm not talking about what happend before but as we "speak". Serbs are still not allowed to return and Albanians expect Serbia to recognize that and legitimize the theft of territory that is hostorically Serb. There were no real negotiations over the status of Kosovo. It was an imposed solution. Albanians don't seem to want a real solution. They want the cake and eat it to. Well it doesn't work that way. However, its not entirely the fault of the Albanians but mostly the American who think they can sway their magic wand and everything is solved. Well, if there is going to be peace there needs to be an agreement. Both sides need to loose something to gain something in return. The current situation in Kosovo will become a permanet solution. Partition guarded and protected by Eulex and still no real peace between the people.

'an American guy was publicly lynched for answering a question in Serbian in Pristina not so long ago, '

Ten years is "not so long ago"?

# Got what he deserved, american_in_serbia? What a contemptible thing to say! The french guy is on a life support machine. Your views are beneath contempt. You certainly don’t belong among decent people – you bring shame upon the notion of civilisation.
GRUK
(GRUK, 18 September 2009 13:54)

thank you, gruk, as always.

many of the comments here are contemptible, but those of the self-proclaimed americans (my country- people??) are among the worst and lowest.

please -- they do NOT represent the US in any way, but the very worst elements of this country, and every country produces its rotten apples. but anyway, i apologize for them.

we have to condemn this violence, which has its history and pattern in serbia, but which we can see, in slices, throughout the world. are we really civilized, or is it just fun to pretend so?

BTW, what a surprise, i do not believe that anyone mentioned today is the first night of rosh hashanah, the jewish new year, celebrated by jews around the world. i reminded people here a few weeks ago, but what else is new, so i shall take it upon myself to wish my people and our frnds "shana Tovah," happy new year. we are still alive, and we shall survive, despite all hopes to the contrary.

thank you.

roberto
frisco
robertoruss@yahoo.com

I have been to Belgrade many times and I have never seen or encountered any violence, either pre 99 or post 99.

I was speaking English the whole time, and people weren't even rude to me. Quite the opposite.

I also met Albanian people there, as well as other nationalities, and they had lived without threat in Belgrade during the Kosovo war.

Smulan: Slightly off topic, but even if the UN translator who was murdered was killed in 1999 - Kosovo was supposed to be a protectorate by then. There was no excuse of 'revenge' killings.

Same goes for the poor elderly people who were taken out of their car and beaten to death, the children shot by the river, or the farmers murdered in a field. NONE of these are excusable as 'revenge', any more than any other murder or crime.

Got what he deserved, american_in_serbia? What a contemptible thing to say! The french guy is on a life support machine. Your views are beneath contempt. You certainly don’t belong among decent people – you bring shame upon the notion of civilisation.
GRUK

For Kosova-USA and Krulan’s benefit, here are the links again. Try http://www.bulgaria-italia.com/fry/krumov.htm or http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/1999/oct/13/balkans.unitednations. And Krulan, October 1999 was long after the war finished. This barbarous incident caused a lot of people in Kosovo at the time, myself included, to start seriously reassessing who were the victims in the whole situation.

Guys, dont forget that Arkan was DELIJE's leader, before those DELIJE's became TIGERs and massacred people in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo.
Jason my be joking in here, but things can turn very serious in Balkans quickly.
(Olf, 18 September 2009 12:02)

Did you find the exit of the box??

It is amazing that almost all comments here end up in Kosovo Serbs vs. Kosovo Albanians fights no matter what news we are discussing! For Serbs - accept faults of your own people (not all Serbs are good just because they are Serbs), for Albanian side - accept that Serbs are people like any other (not all Serbs are bad just because they are Serbs). Grow up and try to learn about each other. After all, national 'purity' does not exist in Europe and when you insult another nation, it is very likely you are insulting one of your ancestors. Think about that you big Serbs and big Albanians!

Made in girders (cont)

If you think I’m anti Serb you are way off the mark. The first time I was in Belgrade was on the way to Skopje for the Scotland match. I was in that very pub the French fans were attacked in with 20 other Scotland fans. Luckily we were not playing in Belgrade so these hooligans were not looking for us. If they had known we were there maybe it would be me that was on life support. As it happened I had a great time in Belgrade. I’ve been back since and I’ve also had a Serb friend visit me twice. I love Belgrade and generally feel safe. However, I did and do have reservations about being an away supporter in Belgrade. It is the only place that I would and I have been to many places following Scotland.

Serbs have a bad enough imagine (sometimes unjustified) and these guys are perpetuating that bad image. The well-intentioned people saying it could happen anywhere are not doing any good. It’s a problem and it needs addressed. If they don’t it is better for Serbia’s image that they do not have international or European matches in Belgrade.

For those that say this can happen in any city. Rubbish, Belgrade has a massive problem with this.
(Irnbru, 18 September 2009 11:36)

Irn bru,

Is this the same logic we apply to Rangers fans after their rampage through Manchester last year. My own Glasgow has a horrendous problem when the 'Old Firm' play. Most European cities on match days see some degree of violence especially Italy, Holland and France. It's even creeping back into England after a number of quiet years.
To say their is a massive problem in Belgrade show's just what little knowledge of Belgrade you have. I have been to the Marakana on a derby day and saw nothing different to what I've seen a thousand times on the streets of Glasgow on match day.

Wishing all the worst to the hooligans, since they rightfully deserve it.
And to all the posters that try their best in depicting not only Belgrade but even the whole Serbia as the place of unsurpassed violence aimed at foreigners: last year Serbia was a host to Euro-vision and as recent as couple of months ago to Universiade (over 9500 participants from all over the world).Add the Exit and Guca to it. Any hostilities on the part of Serbian people? Casualties? Yes, a certain number of swain flu cases, mostly among Exit visitors. Some cases of overeating and excessive bier or sljivovica consumption in Guca.
Unable to curb your hatred?
Spare your gall-bladder, might burst.

I just don't get it. Every comment posted by kosovo Albanians is full with hatred toward Serbia. It seems to me they wait to read about any negative event in Serbia to spread their hatred and to point that Serbia. They enjoy in that.
Man, that's sick!

They should clean their dirty house prior to leaving any comment referred to Serbia.

Ej Kosovo-USA. Look up "lynched" - it means murdered by a mob, not hanged. as you appear to think. The October 1999 reference was for Krulan's benefit - he/she was sure it must have been during the war. Really can't handle the truth when it comes up and shakes by the hand, can you? One of the best days of my life when I left that dump.

to the kosovo-usa rolandi and co's

When are you going once in your life to leave your hatry aside!!

A few weeks back a train was destroyed in the Zurich railway station and 20 people ended up in the hospital after a fight broke between two "fans" team.

This is one more time a terrible happening that unfortunately and to often the football worldwilde "fans" offer us.

This people have nothing to do with sport and should end up in the shade for a while to cool down their head.

Irnbru - Maybe I worded it wrongly, but the point is that football hooliganism and related violence can spill over into serious incidents like this.

That can happen anywhere in Europe.

Irnbru,

While for most I agree with your comments I would not restrict this kind of organization and build up of soccer fans only to Serbia.The phenomenon you described is characteristic to some groups in south and eastern Europe as well as south and latin america altzhoug the leaders and subleaders are maybe not as powerful as in Serbia,but in general it is not rare in our region that foreign fans are attacked far from stadium(Despite being a former football hool myself similarly to you I highly condem this complatly unnneccesary phenomenon).Perhaps you also remember the incidents of english fans stubbed to death in Istanbul However to say as some do here that this can happen anywhere in the world is a little exegeration .And really the nature and background of the incidents mentioned by others is a bit different.However I would also have alook at bright side of this well organized fan groups .The coreography the songs the atmosphere these army-like groups such as DElije ,Gate 7 or Ultra Aslans create are unique and true narcotics to those who like visit matches.I try to attend all Belgrade derbies and Important Zvezda matches.(and the same applies to Old Firm now that Ryanair launched its Budapest-Glasgow flight at affordable price):Not long ago I watched Zvezda-Rangers CL qualifier wearing Celtic green-white jersey signed by Boruc himself from the middle of Marakana Sever and people were mad about it in a positive sense.Otherwise good luck to Jags.

For Serbs - accept faults of your own people (not all Serbs are good just because they are Serbs), for Albanian side - accept that Serbs are people like any other (not all Serbs are bad just because they are Serbs). Grow up and try to learn about each other. After all, national 'purity' does not exist in Europe and when you insult another nation, it is very likely you are insulting one of your ancestors. Think about that you big Serbs and big Albanians!
(Sladjana, 18 September 2009 14:42)
what a stupid biased comment " for Albanian side - accept that Serbs are people like any other (not all Serbs are bad".Another Serb basher trying to hide her rascist views.
"national purity doesnt exist" spoken like a true EU propagandist.Every country in Europe is distinctly different from one another that is what makes it beautiful.So remember SErbs not all albanians are murderers and drug dealers NOT.God bless Serbia.

'Ej Kosovo-USA. Look up "lynched" - it means murdered by a mob, not hanged. as you appear to think. '

Lynch = "execute without a trial (especially by hanging)."

= "To punish (a person) without legal process or authority, especially by hanging, for a perceived offense or as an act of bigotry."

For an American, lynching does imply hanging, since this was the method usually used here. I don't remember ever seeing it used by an American for any other method - "killed by mob violence" would probably be used for shootings, necklace burnings, etc.

new, so i shall take it upon myself to wish my people and our frnds "shana Tovah," happy new year. we are still alive, and we shall survive, despite all hopes to the contrary.

thank you.

roberto
frisco
robertoruss@yahoo.com
(roberto, 19 September 2009 06:07)

Reading your comment(s) makes me feel that your are either oppressed day after day or your like to wear that "oppressed and forgive them because they don't know what they do" type of skin.
In either case you like to carry that cross on your back and makes us believe that the all world is against you!
I have 100ds of jewish friends but never heard them crying like you do in every of your comments.
Stop the paranoia!