Peter,
You mentioned the Greeks, which were almost an extinct nation after the fall of Byzantine Empire. The Slavic tribes settled in most Thessaly, Macedonia, and parts of Peloponesos. Albanian tribes moved from Epirus into West Peloponesos, Attica and Eubea. The Greek landscape was entirely devoid of population in the 15th century. It was also the fight of these new immigrant population, especially the Albanians, that gave Greece the independence.
Albanians were fighting more against the Ottomans than Greeks and Serbs. Yet, because they were moslem, their actions were considered more as power struggle than a fight for freedom.
As far as Muhamed Ali of Egypt, and Ali Pasha of Janina are concerned, I would like to advise you that historical figures cannot be analysed as good or bad. Moreover both of these figures fought against the Ottoman empire. Ali Pasha wanted to form an independent Epirus state and lost his life for it. Muhamed Ali fought against the Ottoman empire, and gave the independence to Egypt. There are good deeds and bad deeds that can be attributed to an historical figure.
History is not black and white. It is mostly grey.
I am very sure you don't know anything about Albanian history and culture but I was pointing to the FACT that you don’t know the Mediterranean culture and history as well.
You ignore one of the most important moments in the Mediterranean and European history the inquisition period (not only in Spain although it is the most popular but also in Sicily for e.g.) the reason and consequences of it. You are EU citizen and you are free to travel in south Spain and met some "opportunistic" Spanish’s for example. You also ignore that many Hebrews converted in Christianity or even Islam.
About Albanian history you don't know almost anything. Wiki is not a source, I am sorry.
To know about Ali Pash Tepelena you will need to read something at least from George Gordon Byron, or Monte Cristo of Dumas. Or even better the masterpiece of Sabri Godo on Ali Pash Tepelena.
To make it short, not that Ali Pash Tepelena fought Ottomans for 30 years but he gained the respect of the entire Europe at that time. Britain, France etc all of them had the diplomatic seats in Janina at that time. The rebellions of other Balkan nations that you prefer as ‘pure’ Christians were at most couple of months my dear never a double digit number of months, never a single year- HUGE DIFFERENCE.
In the end not only he fought Ottomans but with Mark Botcarin the suliot he gave the freedom to Greece, as old south- Albanian song says. Certainly you ignore that as result of this common fight of Albanians and Greeks in the first assembly of the new Greek parliament at that time the discussions were should also Albanian be acknowledged as official language. You certainly ignore that top the first Greek ,military float orders were given in Albanian. Not really wised approach to opportunists what do you think??
You simply don't know a thing.
To make a pass out form Europe, what do you think why majority of autochthons in Caucasus as Chechens and many other ethnic groups inside Russia are Muslim???
To conclude a small advise: regardless if it is Albanians or whoever, you are just a small individual judging an entire nation or collectively, the probability that you are wrong is very very high. The likelihood that you are superficial is actually certainty.
Fair point, but then again, the Greeks also do not belong to any of the major European tribes and they stuck to their culture. That's just how it looks to an outsider, of course I do presume to teach you your own history or anything.
ben
I know a little about Albanian history, and personalities like Ali Pasha and Muhammad Ali do not give outsiders, such a myself, the best impression that Albanians were against the Ottoman Empire. On the other hand, there were great Albanians like Skenderbeg and Leke Dukagjini who fought against the Ottomans and have my greatest respect.
I know how dangerous the mass media is, whatever my opinions are that lean towards the West, they are not as a result of brainwashing, that much I can promise you.
Peter,
I do not think that you understand the reason behind all those changes in our religious and ideological views. It is quite simple.
Throughout our history we have understood that ideologies (including religion) are not as important as family and nation. Moreover, when you are a small nation that does not belong to the pan-slavic political umbrella, for sure that you will find some other means of connecting with people. We are like the orphans of Europe, which is:
Not Slavic
Not Latin
Not Germanic
We did not change the religion because we liked the Ottoman empire. We were relatively more independent than most of the other nations, because we valued more our freedom than our ideologies.
In the past I quite often disagreed with your comments but what you wrote in the comment number 31 is the best short summery I have ever read about albanians.Reading such comments make feel that despite brainwashing Michnik style media in Poland and the fact that the real intellectual elite of Poland was wiped out almost entierely during the last century we can say that
there are still people who use their brain and heart.
I don't understand why i am continuously censured and Jovan is not?????
If he can bust his chests thinking that kosova is unarmed as in the 90s he is living in great illusions...
Serbia did not manage to deal from 1996 to 1999 farmers of KLA today it would be much much much ok impossible simply to do somehting. What's ofensive here???
Nail: are you gonna do something??? this is making us very much thinking... ;))
PZ great post. But hipocrisy is the most loyal mate of Serbians. FACT.
if only you were honest to yourself, you wouldn´t even think of comparing Serbs and Albanians in that particular case!
I will try to explain it to you, my dear, even if the likelihood to succeed in your case is very low.
Serbs and Russians have a lot in common, not only religion but also a longer history of quite brotherly relations, I won´t deepen it further - there are enough history-books you could take into your hands, ( if only you did... )
Albanians and US-americans have almost nothing in common.
neither religion or culture, not even a history of common values, ...simply nothing. they simply use you as useful .....s. for their own geo-political interests.
that´s the reason why it looks like boot-licking if you wave us-flags. got it?
as for that "chest-beating"-thing, don´t worry my dear, I let that to my dear albanian friends to talk about "hell will break lose" ( "...if we get no independence" ) and other kind of childish macho-phrases.
it´s simply the albanian kind of tune to express desperation, and I guess there will follow something similar when those amongst you, who still believe to be descendants of the illyrians and also still believe to be "independent" finally realize that they were simply and thoroughly duped.
it´s yours to complain in the future. you only do not realize it yet.
so, don´t misunderstand me, I am not threatening or chest-beating at all - I only tell you what is a fact. as soon as there happens something like you "predicted", there will be some adequate reaction, that only comes naturally.
one year ago it was only the US-embassy, that was nothing, compared with what could happen if anyone illegally declared our southern province as a part of Albania.
then my dear friend, you would learn what trouble means. that´s only one logic consequence of your not-so-logic dreams.
the US won´t bomb us again, that´s what you can be sure of, my dear.
so defending, what is ours, with the support of two thirds of the whole planet is something completely different than ten years ago, when Serbia was generally seen as the pariah-state. since then the world has changed, my friend. and that´s something I am thankful to the K-albanians who burned 150 churches and monasteries, that alone brought internationally a lot of positive perception of the serbian point of view in regard to the K-issue. thanks for being so hostile, my dear albanian friend, you are helping the serbian cause with that!
but telling you all this, is actually only a waste of time, since you are stuck too deep in your little narrow world of "greater Albania".
actually, given that you are being duped by the americans and abused by your very own socalled "heroes", you have my sympathy.
"Tadić presented the idea that Belgrade hosts the summit of the Non-Aligned Movement in 2011 on the 50th anniversary of the foundation of this movement."
So Tadic is trying to benefit from Tito's legacy? This is sad indeed for the serbs, trying to benefit from the legacy of titio who was a croat...
Albania is only pro whoever is a major power at any given time. They changed their religion to Islam under Ottoman domination, unlike their neighbours, because they thought that the Ottoman Empire was a superpower that would exist forever and that they should get into bed with them.
Now you have the USA as the world's number one power, so Albania tries to get in bed with the West, with many Albanians starting to convert now to Christianity.
When China becomes THE world power, you will see, Albanians will drop the West, convert to Buddhism, remind the Chinese of how close Hoxha and Mao were and start waving Chinese flags.
I remember very well how the Serbian politicians or the pro Serbian lobbyists (during the war in Kosovo and especially during the statute negotiation process) were trying in any way possible to present the Kosovo war and the Kosovo issue as an “Islamic extremist movement” in Europe and a threat to all the Western Countries. Furthermore, they have tried so hard to present these countries where nowadays Serbian politicians are lobbying against Kosovo independence, as direct supporters of that “movement”. Here is a link (among many others) to demonstrate this:
You should not demonize Russia, it has done enough wrong to the world already in the last 100 years. Boasting with the bad reputation and fear of Russia is not the best piece of advice to give to Serbia that wants to integrate in the civilised EU family.
You'd better advocate democracy and friendly neighbourly relations back at home. Perhaps Putin boy would learn a little...
So, what is this supposed to mean. Are you gonna buy this?
Egypt is far from Europe, place where Serbia should be.
More important declarations are the ones that come form Germany, USA, France, UK, the ones that run your lifes, the ones that tell you that Kosova issue is over. Egypt will recognise Kosova in a near future, not becuase most of the Kosova population is muslim, but because the majority of the UN members are going to do that by the end of 2010.
It is really sad how Serbia is using the name of Yugoslavia for its profile.
B92, no censoring Ok :-)? It took me 10 min to write it.
>>"there´s nothing wrong in waving star-spangled banners if you´re an US-american. if not, it simply looks like boot-licking."
Do those Serbs that parade with pictures of Tsar Putin count? Kosova at least has a reason to be thankful for US. Putin is robbing you blind, now they want the Hayat hotel as well from Serbia.
>> "@EA: the day you TRY to join with Albania, you will lose more than only the albanian-inhabited areas of southern Serbia."
Oh, please enough with chest beating: You will not start another war, you have lost enough. We declared independence and all you did is burn the US embassy. There is peace in the Balkans, and with Croatia and Albania joining NATO the Balkans became much more peaceful. Get your mind off the wars, you don't have neither the will nor the means now. Kosova is an independent state and can so whatever it wants in cooperation with its partners.
If Serbia wants to join EU they will have to recognize Kosova, if not Serbia will be the last one to enter EU--if ever thanks to vetoes. Kosova might not be able to join UN (if Russia can't be bought by US) but EU will accept them eventually one way or another, as they are a private club and make their own rules. The next time any aid will not be given either. It's very simple.
I am just wondering if Tadic talked to Mubarak in Serbia's name or Yugoslavia's name. I think Mubarak has still memory of Tito's Yugoslavia, and he probably doesn't know where Kosovo is?
Tadic: Mr Mubarak please do not recognize Kosovo.
Mubarak: Oh no no......thinking(where is Kosovo.E selam e alejkum Mr Tadic.
Thank you Egypt and a big thanks to the Islamic, Muslim and Arab world for overwhelmingly supporting the Serbian cause.
This is so obviously an EU/US/NATO occupation that these people can clearly see. We are all on the same side and battling for our very freedom!
We are clearing winning with the oppressors collapsing and withdrawing before our very eyes. I am so glad we have countries like Egypt supporting us while the others can only afford to bride and pressure micro island states.
(Zoran, 1 April 2009 19:24)
Till now you and your nation used the most dirtiest words against the Arab countries for sperading the islamic fundamentalism in Kosova, and know suddenly Serbia gives the love to the Arabs, this can't be called anything but "hypocrisy", so go on with your love to the egyptians, libians, iranian's, syrian's, to the cradle of the terrorism, for me is better wavering the US flag rather then the terrorist countries flag, for Albanians the Islamic fundamentalism is neither in their dreams nor in their minds.
"Just to give a little bit better understanding to the Serbian panel in here.
The Kosovar Albanians care less what Egypt or any other country think about Kosova. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THAT THERE IS NO RETURN TO SERBIA! If Serbia pushes really hard to block Kosova's recognition it most likely pushing Kosova towards join Albania rather than return to Serbia. I can not be more honest than that."
Hello EA,
Thanks for being honest although I'm not sure the people in charge (both in Kosovo and Albania) share your sentiments. Neither them nor US is in a position for more war especially in this economic climate. More importantly than all that US/NATO will not want its Camp Bondsteel to come under any sort of military threat so expect aid to get cut (or at least threatened) from Western countries if you go ahead with the move (basically you will be left to care for your own).
However assuming that you are right and your leaders share your views, then if recognitions come to a complete stop (say for 6-12 months) and Kosovo starts "diplomatic" talks about union/confederation with Albania what do you think Serbia will do in response? I'll tell you right now... for starters no western backed politician (i.e. Tadic) will be able to stay in office so expect either SRS/SNS or DSS to get in power very quickly. Expect them to pull every possible string in their diplomatic arsenal with Russia and our allies for military and diplomatic aid. Then watch as the US/NATO suddenly claim a "neutral"-like status over Camp Bondsteel and other strategic areas of Kosovo so as to not make it a military target for the Serbian Army coming back to Kosovo.
All in all such a move will create a lot of protests, violence, more ethnic cleansing of Serbs and a complete breakdown of all law and order instilled by the "international community" (UNMIK/EULEx). So now getting back to your statement, you say its important for Kosovo to never come back to Serbia? Well according to UN it never left, however if that is not enough for you by trying to get it to join Albania you will only put Kosovo's status in further limbo as there will be renewed conflict over that territory.
You have to understand EA that this conflict has become bigger than us (Serbs and Albanians). Its a power play between Russia and US/NATO and the way things are now are fine for both of them. US/NATO managed to get its base in that region of Europe and give Kosovo enough sovereignty to keep a pro US regime in power and keep the radical Albanians in check. Russia managed to show the world it sill matters on the world stage with regards to diplomatic matters (UN Security Council) and it used the precedent for its own mini Kosovo war (Georgia). The status quo serves them both well enough as it is not in the top agenda items of either nation. Yet another frozen conflict in Europe.
"Umm, you mean like Libya, run by the dictator Gaddafi since 1969? Or Syria, run by the dictator al-Assad? Like Iran, run by the religious nut-job Khamenei? Eritrea, run by another dictator, Afewerki?
(Jan Andersen, DK, 1 April 2009 21:00)"
Neither Iran or Eritrea are full members of the Arab League. I think Egypt's support for Serbia stems from the Non-Aligned Movement. This was founded by Egypt, India and Yugoslavia.
Many Arab countries are so dependent on Russia for their.... guess what? ;)))
(ben, 1 April 2009 21:22)
No idea.
- Training of terrorists? These days are gone long ago with the Berlin Wall.
- Cars? C'mon, the best ones are made by Japanese / Koreans in Russia
- Girls? These politicians probably cannot handle even their wives.
- Education? To be honest, if some guest students on Patris Lumumba University finally learn how to use a Western... toilet properly - that is already an achievement.
- Oil? No way, they have it.
- Natural gas? See oil.
- Tourists? Could be, but here Croatia, Montenegro and Crimea are tough competitors. Not sure, how much a round-trip ticket to Zanzibar does cost, but it's 200 Euro by train from Moscow to the same without "Zanzi". And even that is to much this year.
- Support against Israel? The big problem, after immigration waves of the past, Israeli Israelians became almost a minority in their country. Israel is now essentially a smaller Russia. They do not need visa to Russia either.
- Russian politicians?
Fine with me, they (Arabs) can have as many Russian politicians they want, I will only ask them to make sure, not a single returns back! Free gift! If they want, free Georgian, Ukrainian, Hungarian, Serbian, American politicians also available! Everyone is on sale, everyone is for free! What a deal! Just keep them there, no need to return. (Extra bonus: Montenegrin Duke Dukanovic with a truckload of genuine Bulgarian cigarettes made in China)
Wait, I can make three other guesses:
1) "Матрёшка"
http://www.samoffar.ru/pictures/674.jpg
2) the true, native population of Medvedja
http://tinyurl.com/dmc2fy
3) And this (to make sure the politicians they get for free are in good mood) http://tinyurl.com/dhwpnj
"Doese Russia has to do anything with this??? hmmmm ;)"
Highly unlikely. Egypt's Mubarak is the second largest recipient in US foreign aid after Israel, so if anyone wants to claim outside patronage, one should wonder why Egypt, as another US client, hasn't recognized - it's got to be more than just Big Bad Russia doing arm twisting. Same goes for Israel. And even Mexico for that matter.
"This is about Kosova: The Arabs are due to make a decision soon so Tadic is desperate"
(Alban, 1 April 2009 16:09)
Egypt has just made their decision. Do you have trouble taking no for an answer?
You are still trying to tell us that they are only thinking about it. Accept no and move on.
Egypt was created by Albanians. King Faruk was an Albanian. Egypt and his nation should build up a memory statue to the Albanian worriers who fought to liberate Egypt and to win his freedom. Since Naser and other known terrorist helped by Russia fought against king Faruk and they created today Egypt which state completely serve Russian interest and not Egypt people interest. These leaders who don’t care about his nation interest they will lose one day.
Not so long age, the Serbs were accusing the Albanians for being pro arabs, but now we clearly see who are pro arabs.
So whenever the serbs were accusing the albanians of being terrorists together with arabs, now all those accusations should be for the serbs by the serbs since they are being allies with the arabs.
Now we can clearly see that albanians are totally prowest, while serbs are proarabs.
"Umm, you mean like Libya, run by the dictator Gaddafi since 1969? Or Syria, run by the dictator al-Assad? Like Iran, run by the religious nut-job Khamenei? Eritrea, run by another dictator, Afewerki?
(Jan Andersen, DK, 1 April 2009 21:00)"
Yes, why not? It's not much different than what the Western powers are doing.
"This is great news. The surrounding Arab countries should follow Egypt's lead."
Umm, you mean like Libya, run by the dictator Gaddafi since 1969? Or Syria, run by the dictator al-Assad? Like Iran, run by the religious nut-job Khamenei? Eritrea, run by another dictator, Afewerki?
Just to give a little bit better understanding to the Serbian panel in here.
The Kosovar Albanians care less what Egypt or any other country think about Kosova. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THAT THERE IS NO RETURN TO SERBIA! If Serbia pushes really hard to block Kosova's recognition it most likely pushing Kosova towards join Albania rather than return to Serbia. I can not be more honest than that.
Thank you Egypt and a big thanks to the Islamic, Muslim and Arab world for overwhelmingly supporting the Serbian cause.
This is so obviously an EU/US/NATO occupation that these people can clearly see. We are all on the same side and battling for our very freedom!
We are clearing winning with the oppressors collapsing and withdrawing before our very eyes. I am so glad we have countries like Egypt supporting us while the others can only afford to bride and pressure micro island states.
When you have no understanding with the US and EU you automatically gain sympathy of the rest of the world. So this time Tadic is right ! Albanians would pay much to be treated in Cairo the way they meet Boris. Besides it’s a good message for EU and it’s chief.
If Tadic were not so faithful to the Anglo-Saxon world he could quite send a more irritating signal by tying Serbia closer to Russia. This would help Serbia solve many technical and political problems without traditional EU formalities. Dear friends you all know that closer ties with us is the nightmare of all your enemies.
This is about Kosova: The Arabs are due to make a decision soon so Tadic is desperate
(Alban, 1 April 2009 16:09
Alban,
wasnt it not so long ago that the 'Kosova' delegation was refused entry at the recent OIC summit in Cairo after objections from Libya and other Maghreb & Arab countries so I wouldnt get your hopes up. Lord only knows what the yellow press in Pristina is feeding you.
Arab countries will not recognise you. Why? well remember all those American flags you were waving....
It is about time Serbia is trying to build Public Profile. Only than will the world know what Serbs really stand for and not what they have been branded to be!
This is about Kosova: The Arabs are due to make a decision soon so Tadic is desperate
(Alban, 1 April 2009 16:09
Alban,
wasnt it not so long ago that the 'Kosova' delegation was refused entry at the recent OIC summit in Cairo after objections from Libya and other Maghreb & Arab countries so I wouldnt get your hopes up. Lord only knows what the yellow press in Pristina is feeding you.
Arab countries will not recognise you. Why? well remember all those American flags you were waving....
"Doese Russia has to do anything with this??? hmmmm ;)"
Highly unlikely. Egypt's Mubarak is the second largest recipient in US foreign aid after Israel, so if anyone wants to claim outside patronage, one should wonder why Egypt, as another US client, hasn't recognized - it's got to be more than just Big Bad Russia doing arm twisting. Same goes for Israel. And even Mexico for that matter.
It is about time Serbia is trying to build Public Profile. Only than will the world know what Serbs really stand for and not what they have been branded to be!
When you have no understanding with the US and EU you automatically gain sympathy of the rest of the world. So this time Tadic is right ! Albanians would pay much to be treated in Cairo the way they meet Boris. Besides it’s a good message for EU and it’s chief.
If Tadic were not so faithful to the Anglo-Saxon world he could quite send a more irritating signal by tying Serbia closer to Russia. This would help Serbia solve many technical and political problems without traditional EU formalities. Dear friends you all know that closer ties with us is the nightmare of all your enemies.
Thank you Egypt and a big thanks to the Islamic, Muslim and Arab world for overwhelmingly supporting the Serbian cause.
This is so obviously an EU/US/NATO occupation that these people can clearly see. We are all on the same side and battling for our very freedom!
We are clearing winning with the oppressors collapsing and withdrawing before our very eyes. I am so glad we have countries like Egypt supporting us while the others can only afford to bride and pressure micro island states.
"This is about Kosova: The Arabs are due to make a decision soon so Tadic is desperate"
(Alban, 1 April 2009 16:09)
Egypt has just made their decision. Do you have trouble taking no for an answer?
You are still trying to tell us that they are only thinking about it. Accept no and move on.
"Umm, you mean like Libya, run by the dictator Gaddafi since 1969? Or Syria, run by the dictator al-Assad? Like Iran, run by the religious nut-job Khamenei? Eritrea, run by another dictator, Afewerki?
(Jan Andersen, DK, 1 April 2009 21:00)"
Yes, why not? It's not much different than what the Western powers are doing.
Just to give a little bit better understanding to the Serbian panel in here.
The Kosovar Albanians care less what Egypt or any other country think about Kosova. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THAT THERE IS NO RETURN TO SERBIA! If Serbia pushes really hard to block Kosova's recognition it most likely pushing Kosova towards join Albania rather than return to Serbia. I can not be more honest than that.
Egypt was created by Albanians. King Faruk was an Albanian. Egypt and his nation should build up a memory statue to the Albanian worriers who fought to liberate Egypt and to win his freedom. Since Naser and other known terrorist helped by Russia fought against king Faruk and they created today Egypt which state completely serve Russian interest and not Egypt people interest. These leaders who don’t care about his nation interest they will lose one day.
"Umm, you mean like Libya, run by the dictator Gaddafi since 1969? Or Syria, run by the dictator al-Assad? Like Iran, run by the religious nut-job Khamenei? Eritrea, run by another dictator, Afewerki?
(Jan Andersen, DK, 1 April 2009 21:00)"
Neither Iran or Eritrea are full members of the Arab League. I think Egypt's support for Serbia stems from the Non-Aligned Movement. This was founded by Egypt, India and Yugoslavia.
"Just to give a little bit better understanding to the Serbian panel in here.
The Kosovar Albanians care less what Egypt or any other country think about Kosova. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THAT THERE IS NO RETURN TO SERBIA! If Serbia pushes really hard to block Kosova's recognition it most likely pushing Kosova towards join Albania rather than return to Serbia. I can not be more honest than that."
Hello EA,
Thanks for being honest although I'm not sure the people in charge (both in Kosovo and Albania) share your sentiments. Neither them nor US is in a position for more war especially in this economic climate. More importantly than all that US/NATO will not want its Camp Bondsteel to come under any sort of military threat so expect aid to get cut (or at least threatened) from Western countries if you go ahead with the move (basically you will be left to care for your own).
However assuming that you are right and your leaders share your views, then if recognitions come to a complete stop (say for 6-12 months) and Kosovo starts "diplomatic" talks about union/confederation with Albania what do you think Serbia will do in response? I'll tell you right now... for starters no western backed politician (i.e. Tadic) will be able to stay in office so expect either SRS/SNS or DSS to get in power very quickly. Expect them to pull every possible string in their diplomatic arsenal with Russia and our allies for military and diplomatic aid. Then watch as the US/NATO suddenly claim a "neutral"-like status over Camp Bondsteel and other strategic areas of Kosovo so as to not make it a military target for the Serbian Army coming back to Kosovo.
All in all such a move will create a lot of protests, violence, more ethnic cleansing of Serbs and a complete breakdown of all law and order instilled by the "international community" (UNMIK/EULEx). So now getting back to your statement, you say its important for Kosovo to never come back to Serbia? Well according to UN it never left, however if that is not enough for you by trying to get it to join Albania you will only put Kosovo's status in further limbo as there will be renewed conflict over that territory.
You have to understand EA that this conflict has become bigger than us (Serbs and Albanians). Its a power play between Russia and US/NATO and the way things are now are fine for both of them. US/NATO managed to get its base in that region of Europe and give Kosovo enough sovereignty to keep a pro US regime in power and keep the radical Albanians in check. Russia managed to show the world it sill matters on the world stage with regards to diplomatic matters (UN Security Council) and it used the precedent for its own mini Kosovo war (Georgia). The status quo serves them both well enough as it is not in the top agenda items of either nation. Yet another frozen conflict in Europe.
Not so long age, the Serbs were accusing the Albanians for being pro arabs, but now we clearly see who are pro arabs.
So whenever the serbs were accusing the albanians of being terrorists together with arabs, now all those accusations should be for the serbs by the serbs since they are being allies with the arabs.
Now we can clearly see that albanians are totally prowest, while serbs are proarabs.
"This is great news. The surrounding Arab countries should follow Egypt's lead."
Umm, you mean like Libya, run by the dictator Gaddafi since 1969? Or Syria, run by the dictator al-Assad? Like Iran, run by the religious nut-job Khamenei? Eritrea, run by another dictator, Afewerki?
Albania is only pro whoever is a major power at any given time. They changed their religion to Islam under Ottoman domination, unlike their neighbours, because they thought that the Ottoman Empire was a superpower that would exist forever and that they should get into bed with them.
Now you have the USA as the world's number one power, so Albania tries to get in bed with the West, with many Albanians starting to convert now to Christianity.
When China becomes THE world power, you will see, Albanians will drop the West, convert to Buddhism, remind the Chinese of how close Hoxha and Mao were and start waving Chinese flags.
Many Arab countries are so dependent on Russia for their.... guess what? ;)))
(ben, 1 April 2009 21:22)
No idea.
- Training of terrorists? These days are gone long ago with the Berlin Wall.
- Cars? C'mon, the best ones are made by Japanese / Koreans in Russia
- Girls? These politicians probably cannot handle even their wives.
- Education? To be honest, if some guest students on Patris Lumumba University finally learn how to use a Western... toilet properly - that is already an achievement.
- Oil? No way, they have it.
- Natural gas? See oil.
- Tourists? Could be, but here Croatia, Montenegro and Crimea are tough competitors. Not sure, how much a round-trip ticket to Zanzibar does cost, but it's 200 Euro by train from Moscow to the same without "Zanzi". And even that is to much this year.
- Support against Israel? The big problem, after immigration waves of the past, Israeli Israelians became almost a minority in their country. Israel is now essentially a smaller Russia. They do not need visa to Russia either.
- Russian politicians?
Fine with me, they (Arabs) can have as many Russian politicians they want, I will only ask them to make sure, not a single returns back! Free gift! If they want, free Georgian, Ukrainian, Hungarian, Serbian, American politicians also available! Everyone is on sale, everyone is for free! What a deal! Just keep them there, no need to return. (Extra bonus: Montenegrin Duke Dukanovic with a truckload of genuine Bulgarian cigarettes made in China)
Wait, I can make three other guesses:
1) "Матрёшка"
http://www.samoffar.ru/pictures/674.jpg
2) the true, native population of Medvedja
http://tinyurl.com/dmc2fy
3) And this (to make sure the politicians they get for free are in good mood) http://tinyurl.com/dhwpnj
if only you were honest to yourself, you wouldn´t even think of comparing Serbs and Albanians in that particular case!
I will try to explain it to you, my dear, even if the likelihood to succeed in your case is very low.
Serbs and Russians have a lot in common, not only religion but also a longer history of quite brotherly relations, I won´t deepen it further - there are enough history-books you could take into your hands, ( if only you did... )
Albanians and US-americans have almost nothing in common.
neither religion or culture, not even a history of common values, ...simply nothing. they simply use you as useful .....s. for their own geo-political interests.
that´s the reason why it looks like boot-licking if you wave us-flags. got it?
as for that "chest-beating"-thing, don´t worry my dear, I let that to my dear albanian friends to talk about "hell will break lose" ( "...if we get no independence" ) and other kind of childish macho-phrases.
it´s simply the albanian kind of tune to express desperation, and I guess there will follow something similar when those amongst you, who still believe to be descendants of the illyrians and also still believe to be "independent" finally realize that they were simply and thoroughly duped.
it´s yours to complain in the future. you only do not realize it yet.
so, don´t misunderstand me, I am not threatening or chest-beating at all - I only tell you what is a fact. as soon as there happens something like you "predicted", there will be some adequate reaction, that only comes naturally.
one year ago it was only the US-embassy, that was nothing, compared with what could happen if anyone illegally declared our southern province as a part of Albania.
then my dear friend, you would learn what trouble means. that´s only one logic consequence of your not-so-logic dreams.
the US won´t bomb us again, that´s what you can be sure of, my dear.
so defending, what is ours, with the support of two thirds of the whole planet is something completely different than ten years ago, when Serbia was generally seen as the pariah-state. since then the world has changed, my friend. and that´s something I am thankful to the K-albanians who burned 150 churches and monasteries, that alone brought internationally a lot of positive perception of the serbian point of view in regard to the K-issue. thanks for being so hostile, my dear albanian friend, you are helping the serbian cause with that!
but telling you all this, is actually only a waste of time, since you are stuck too deep in your little narrow world of "greater Albania".
actually, given that you are being duped by the americans and abused by your very own socalled "heroes", you have my sympathy.
I remember very well how the Serbian politicians or the pro Serbian lobbyists (during the war in Kosovo and especially during the statute negotiation process) were trying in any way possible to present the Kosovo war and the Kosovo issue as an “Islamic extremist movement” in Europe and a threat to all the Western Countries. Furthermore, they have tried so hard to present these countries where nowadays Serbian politicians are lobbying against Kosovo independence, as direct supporters of that “movement”. Here is a link (among many others) to demonstrate this:
So, what is this supposed to mean. Are you gonna buy this?
Egypt is far from Europe, place where Serbia should be.
More important declarations are the ones that come form Germany, USA, France, UK, the ones that run your lifes, the ones that tell you that Kosova issue is over. Egypt will recognise Kosova in a near future, not becuase most of the Kosova population is muslim, but because the majority of the UN members are going to do that by the end of 2010.
It is really sad how Serbia is using the name of Yugoslavia for its profile.
B92, no censoring Ok :-)? It took me 10 min to write it.
>>"there´s nothing wrong in waving star-spangled banners if you´re an US-american. if not, it simply looks like boot-licking."
Do those Serbs that parade with pictures of Tsar Putin count? Kosova at least has a reason to be thankful for US. Putin is robbing you blind, now they want the Hayat hotel as well from Serbia.
>> "@EA: the day you TRY to join with Albania, you will lose more than only the albanian-inhabited areas of southern Serbia."
Oh, please enough with chest beating: You will not start another war, you have lost enough. We declared independence and all you did is burn the US embassy. There is peace in the Balkans, and with Croatia and Albania joining NATO the Balkans became much more peaceful. Get your mind off the wars, you don't have neither the will nor the means now. Kosova is an independent state and can so whatever it wants in cooperation with its partners.
If Serbia wants to join EU they will have to recognize Kosova, if not Serbia will be the last one to enter EU--if ever thanks to vetoes. Kosova might not be able to join UN (if Russia can't be bought by US) but EU will accept them eventually one way or another, as they are a private club and make their own rules. The next time any aid will not be given either. It's very simple.
You should not demonize Russia, it has done enough wrong to the world already in the last 100 years. Boasting with the bad reputation and fear of Russia is not the best piece of advice to give to Serbia that wants to integrate in the civilised EU family.
You'd better advocate democracy and friendly neighbourly relations back at home. Perhaps Putin boy would learn a little...
Thank you Egypt and a big thanks to the Islamic, Muslim and Arab world for overwhelmingly supporting the Serbian cause.
This is so obviously an EU/US/NATO occupation that these people can clearly see. We are all on the same side and battling for our very freedom!
We are clearing winning with the oppressors collapsing and withdrawing before our very eyes. I am so glad we have countries like Egypt supporting us while the others can only afford to bride and pressure micro island states.
(Zoran, 1 April 2009 19:24)
Till now you and your nation used the most dirtiest words against the Arab countries for sperading the islamic fundamentalism in Kosova, and know suddenly Serbia gives the love to the Arabs, this can't be called anything but "hypocrisy", so go on with your love to the egyptians, libians, iranian's, syrian's, to the cradle of the terrorism, for me is better wavering the US flag rather then the terrorist countries flag, for Albanians the Islamic fundamentalism is neither in their dreams nor in their minds.
In the past I quite often disagreed with your comments but what you wrote in the comment number 31 is the best short summery I have ever read about albanians.Reading such comments make feel that despite brainwashing Michnik style media in Poland and the fact that the real intellectual elite of Poland was wiped out almost entierely during the last century we can say that
there are still people who use their brain and heart.
I know how dangerous the mass media is, whatever my opinions are that lean towards the West, they are not as a result of brainwashing, that much I can promise you.
I am very sure you don't know anything about Albanian history and culture but I was pointing to the FACT that you don’t know the Mediterranean culture and history as well.
You ignore one of the most important moments in the Mediterranean and European history the inquisition period (not only in Spain although it is the most popular but also in Sicily for e.g.) the reason and consequences of it. You are EU citizen and you are free to travel in south Spain and met some "opportunistic" Spanish’s for example. You also ignore that many Hebrews converted in Christianity or even Islam.
About Albanian history you don't know almost anything. Wiki is not a source, I am sorry.
To know about Ali Pash Tepelena you will need to read something at least from George Gordon Byron, or Monte Cristo of Dumas. Or even better the masterpiece of Sabri Godo on Ali Pash Tepelena.
To make it short, not that Ali Pash Tepelena fought Ottomans for 30 years but he gained the respect of the entire Europe at that time. Britain, France etc all of them had the diplomatic seats in Janina at that time. The rebellions of other Balkan nations that you prefer as ‘pure’ Christians were at most couple of months my dear never a double digit number of months, never a single year- HUGE DIFFERENCE.
In the end not only he fought Ottomans but with Mark Botcarin the suliot he gave the freedom to Greece, as old south- Albanian song says. Certainly you ignore that as result of this common fight of Albanians and Greeks in the first assembly of the new Greek parliament at that time the discussions were should also Albanian be acknowledged as official language. You certainly ignore that top the first Greek ,military float orders were given in Albanian. Not really wised approach to opportunists what do you think??
You simply don't know a thing.
To make a pass out form Europe, what do you think why majority of autochthons in Caucasus as Chechens and many other ethnic groups inside Russia are Muslim???
To conclude a small advise: regardless if it is Albanians or whoever, you are just a small individual judging an entire nation or collectively, the probability that you are wrong is very very high. The likelihood that you are superficial is actually certainty.
I am just wondering if Tadic talked to Mubarak in Serbia's name or Yugoslavia's name. I think Mubarak has still memory of Tito's Yugoslavia, and he probably doesn't know where Kosovo is?
Tadic: Mr Mubarak please do not recognize Kosovo.
Mubarak: Oh no no......thinking(where is Kosovo.E selam e alejkum Mr Tadic.
Fair point, but then again, the Greeks also do not belong to any of the major European tribes and they stuck to their culture. That's just how it looks to an outsider, of course I do presume to teach you your own history or anything.
ben
I know a little about Albanian history, and personalities like Ali Pasha and Muhammad Ali do not give outsiders, such a myself, the best impression that Albanians were against the Ottoman Empire. On the other hand, there were great Albanians like Skenderbeg and Leke Dukagjini who fought against the Ottomans and have my greatest respect.
Peter,
You mentioned the Greeks, which were almost an extinct nation after the fall of Byzantine Empire. The Slavic tribes settled in most Thessaly, Macedonia, and parts of Peloponesos. Albanian tribes moved from Epirus into West Peloponesos, Attica and Eubea. The Greek landscape was entirely devoid of population in the 15th century. It was also the fight of these new immigrant population, especially the Albanians, that gave Greece the independence.
Albanians were fighting more against the Ottomans than Greeks and Serbs. Yet, because they were moslem, their actions were considered more as power struggle than a fight for freedom.
As far as Muhamed Ali of Egypt, and Ali Pasha of Janina are concerned, I would like to advise you that historical figures cannot be analysed as good or bad. Moreover both of these figures fought against the Ottoman empire. Ali Pasha wanted to form an independent Epirus state and lost his life for it. Muhamed Ali fought against the Ottoman empire, and gave the independence to Egypt. There are good deeds and bad deeds that can be attributed to an historical figure.
History is not black and white. It is mostly grey.
I don't understand why i am continuously censured and Jovan is not?????
If he can bust his chests thinking that kosova is unarmed as in the 90s he is living in great illusions...
Serbia did not manage to deal from 1996 to 1999 farmers of KLA today it would be much much much ok impossible simply to do somehting. What's ofensive here???
Nail: are you gonna do something??? this is making us very much thinking... ;))
PZ great post. But hipocrisy is the most loyal mate of Serbians. FACT.
Peter,
I do not think that you understand the reason behind all those changes in our religious and ideological views. It is quite simple.
Throughout our history we have understood that ideologies (including religion) are not as important as family and nation. Moreover, when you are a small nation that does not belong to the pan-slavic political umbrella, for sure that you will find some other means of connecting with people. We are like the orphans of Europe, which is:
Not Slavic
Not Latin
Not Germanic
We did not change the religion because we liked the Ottoman empire. We were relatively more independent than most of the other nations, because we valued more our freedom than our ideologies.
"Tadić presented the idea that Belgrade hosts the summit of the Non-Aligned Movement in 2011 on the 50th anniversary of the foundation of this movement."
So Tadic is trying to benefit from Tito's legacy? This is sad indeed for the serbs, trying to benefit from the legacy of titio who was a croat...
Not so long age, the Serbs were accusing the Albanians for being pro arabs, but now we clearly see who are pro arabs.
So whenever the serbs were accusing the albanians of being terrorists together with arabs, now all those accusations should be for the serbs by the serbs since they are being allies with the arabs.
Now we can clearly see that albanians are totally prowest, while serbs are proarabs.
Just to give a little bit better understanding to the Serbian panel in here.
The Kosovar Albanians care less what Egypt or any other country think about Kosova. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THAT THERE IS NO RETURN TO SERBIA! If Serbia pushes really hard to block Kosova's recognition it most likely pushing Kosova towards join Albania rather than return to Serbia. I can not be more honest than that.
"This is great news. The surrounding Arab countries should follow Egypt's lead."
Umm, you mean like Libya, run by the dictator Gaddafi since 1969? Or Syria, run by the dictator al-Assad? Like Iran, run by the religious nut-job Khamenei? Eritrea, run by another dictator, Afewerki?
Egypt was created by Albanians. King Faruk was an Albanian. Egypt and his nation should build up a memory statue to the Albanian worriers who fought to liberate Egypt and to win his freedom. Since Naser and other known terrorist helped by Russia fought against king Faruk and they created today Egypt which state completely serve Russian interest and not Egypt people interest. These leaders who don’t care about his nation interest they will lose one day.
This is about Kosova: The Arabs are due to make a decision soon so Tadic is desperate
(Alban, 1 April 2009 16:09
Alban,
wasnt it not so long ago that the 'Kosova' delegation was refused entry at the recent OIC summit in Cairo after objections from Libya and other Maghreb & Arab countries so I wouldnt get your hopes up. Lord only knows what the yellow press in Pristina is feeding you.
Arab countries will not recognise you. Why? well remember all those American flags you were waving....
"Umm, you mean like Libya, run by the dictator Gaddafi since 1969? Or Syria, run by the dictator al-Assad? Like Iran, run by the religious nut-job Khamenei? Eritrea, run by another dictator, Afewerki?
(Jan Andersen, DK, 1 April 2009 21:00)"
Yes, why not? It's not much different than what the Western powers are doing.
It is about time Serbia is trying to build Public Profile. Only than will the world know what Serbs really stand for and not what they have been branded to be!
"This is about Kosova: The Arabs are due to make a decision soon so Tadic is desperate"
(Alban, 1 April 2009 16:09)
Egypt has just made their decision. Do you have trouble taking no for an answer?
You are still trying to tell us that they are only thinking about it. Accept no and move on.
Thank you Egypt and a big thanks to the Islamic, Muslim and Arab world for overwhelmingly supporting the Serbian cause.
This is so obviously an EU/US/NATO occupation that these people can clearly see. We are all on the same side and battling for our very freedom!
We are clearing winning with the oppressors collapsing and withdrawing before our very eyes. I am so glad we have countries like Egypt supporting us while the others can only afford to bride and pressure micro island states.
So, what is this supposed to mean. Are you gonna buy this?
Egypt is far from Europe, place where Serbia should be.
More important declarations are the ones that come form Germany, USA, France, UK, the ones that run your lifes, the ones that tell you that Kosova issue is over. Egypt will recognise Kosova in a near future, not becuase most of the Kosova population is muslim, but because the majority of the UN members are going to do that by the end of 2010.
It is really sad how Serbia is using the name of Yugoslavia for its profile.
You should not demonize Russia, it has done enough wrong to the world already in the last 100 years. Boasting with the bad reputation and fear of Russia is not the best piece of advice to give to Serbia that wants to integrate in the civilised EU family.
You'd better advocate democracy and friendly neighbourly relations back at home. Perhaps Putin boy would learn a little...
Many Arab countries are so dependent on Russia for their.... guess what? ;)))
(ben, 1 April 2009 21:22)
No idea.
- Training of terrorists? These days are gone long ago with the Berlin Wall.
- Cars? C'mon, the best ones are made by Japanese / Koreans in Russia
- Girls? These politicians probably cannot handle even their wives.
- Education? To be honest, if some guest students on Patris Lumumba University finally learn how to use a Western... toilet properly - that is already an achievement.
- Oil? No way, they have it.
- Natural gas? See oil.
- Tourists? Could be, but here Croatia, Montenegro and Crimea are tough competitors. Not sure, how much a round-trip ticket to Zanzibar does cost, but it's 200 Euro by train from Moscow to the same without "Zanzi". And even that is to much this year.
- Support against Israel? The big problem, after immigration waves of the past, Israeli Israelians became almost a minority in their country. Israel is now essentially a smaller Russia. They do not need visa to Russia either.
- Russian politicians?
Fine with me, they (Arabs) can have as many Russian politicians they want, I will only ask them to make sure, not a single returns back! Free gift! If they want, free Georgian, Ukrainian, Hungarian, Serbian, American politicians also available! Everyone is on sale, everyone is for free! What a deal! Just keep them there, no need to return. (Extra bonus: Montenegrin Duke Dukanovic with a truckload of genuine Bulgarian cigarettes made in China)
Wait, I can make three other guesses:
1) "Матрёшка"
http://www.samoffar.ru/pictures/674.jpg
2) the true, native population of Medvedja
http://tinyurl.com/dmc2fy
3) And this (to make sure the politicians they get for free are in good mood) http://tinyurl.com/dhwpnj
B92, no censoring Ok :-)? It took me 10 min to write it.
>>"there´s nothing wrong in waving star-spangled banners if you´re an US-american. if not, it simply looks like boot-licking."
Do those Serbs that parade with pictures of Tsar Putin count? Kosova at least has a reason to be thankful for US. Putin is robbing you blind, now they want the Hayat hotel as well from Serbia.
>> "@EA: the day you TRY to join with Albania, you will lose more than only the albanian-inhabited areas of southern Serbia."
Oh, please enough with chest beating: You will not start another war, you have lost enough. We declared independence and all you did is burn the US embassy. There is peace in the Balkans, and with Croatia and Albania joining NATO the Balkans became much more peaceful. Get your mind off the wars, you don't have neither the will nor the means now. Kosova is an independent state and can so whatever it wants in cooperation with its partners.
If Serbia wants to join EU they will have to recognize Kosova, if not Serbia will be the last one to enter EU--if ever thanks to vetoes. Kosova might not be able to join UN (if Russia can't be bought by US) but EU will accept them eventually one way or another, as they are a private club and make their own rules. The next time any aid will not be given either. It's very simple.
When you have no understanding with the US and EU you automatically gain sympathy of the rest of the world. So this time Tadic is right ! Albanians would pay much to be treated in Cairo the way they meet Boris. Besides it’s a good message for EU and it’s chief.
If Tadic were not so faithful to the Anglo-Saxon world he could quite send a more irritating signal by tying Serbia closer to Russia. This would help Serbia solve many technical and political problems without traditional EU formalities. Dear friends you all know that closer ties with us is the nightmare of all your enemies.
Thank you Egypt and a big thanks to the Islamic, Muslim and Arab world for overwhelmingly supporting the Serbian cause.
This is so obviously an EU/US/NATO occupation that these people can clearly see. We are all on the same side and battling for our very freedom!
We are clearing winning with the oppressors collapsing and withdrawing before our very eyes. I am so glad we have countries like Egypt supporting us while the others can only afford to bride and pressure micro island states.
(Zoran, 1 April 2009 19:24)
Till now you and your nation used the most dirtiest words against the Arab countries for sperading the islamic fundamentalism in Kosova, and know suddenly Serbia gives the love to the Arabs, this can't be called anything but "hypocrisy", so go on with your love to the egyptians, libians, iranian's, syrian's, to the cradle of the terrorism, for me is better wavering the US flag rather then the terrorist countries flag, for Albanians the Islamic fundamentalism is neither in their dreams nor in their minds.
I don't understand why i am continuously censured and Jovan is not?????
If he can bust his chests thinking that kosova is unarmed as in the 90s he is living in great illusions...
Serbia did not manage to deal from 1996 to 1999 farmers of KLA today it would be much much much ok impossible simply to do somehting. What's ofensive here???
Nail: are you gonna do something??? this is making us very much thinking... ;))
PZ great post. But hipocrisy is the most loyal mate of Serbians. FACT.
I am just wondering if Tadic talked to Mubarak in Serbia's name or Yugoslavia's name. I think Mubarak has still memory of Tito's Yugoslavia, and he probably doesn't know where Kosovo is?
Tadic: Mr Mubarak please do not recognize Kosovo.
Mubarak: Oh no no......thinking(where is Kosovo.E selam e alejkum Mr Tadic.
"Tadić presented the idea that Belgrade hosts the summit of the Non-Aligned Movement in 2011 on the 50th anniversary of the foundation of this movement."
So Tadic is trying to benefit from Tito's legacy? This is sad indeed for the serbs, trying to benefit from the legacy of titio who was a croat...
I remember very well how the Serbian politicians or the pro Serbian lobbyists (during the war in Kosovo and especially during the statute negotiation process) were trying in any way possible to present the Kosovo war and the Kosovo issue as an “Islamic extremist movement” in Europe and a threat to all the Western Countries. Furthermore, they have tried so hard to present these countries where nowadays Serbian politicians are lobbying against Kosovo independence, as direct supporters of that “movement”. Here is a link (among many others) to demonstrate this:
"Just to give a little bit better understanding to the Serbian panel in here.
The Kosovar Albanians care less what Egypt or any other country think about Kosova. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THAT THERE IS NO RETURN TO SERBIA! If Serbia pushes really hard to block Kosova's recognition it most likely pushing Kosova towards join Albania rather than return to Serbia. I can not be more honest than that."
Hello EA,
Thanks for being honest although I'm not sure the people in charge (both in Kosovo and Albania) share your sentiments. Neither them nor US is in a position for more war especially in this economic climate. More importantly than all that US/NATO will not want its Camp Bondsteel to come under any sort of military threat so expect aid to get cut (or at least threatened) from Western countries if you go ahead with the move (basically you will be left to care for your own).
However assuming that you are right and your leaders share your views, then if recognitions come to a complete stop (say for 6-12 months) and Kosovo starts "diplomatic" talks about union/confederation with Albania what do you think Serbia will do in response? I'll tell you right now... for starters no western backed politician (i.e. Tadic) will be able to stay in office so expect either SRS/SNS or DSS to get in power very quickly. Expect them to pull every possible string in their diplomatic arsenal with Russia and our allies for military and diplomatic aid. Then watch as the US/NATO suddenly claim a "neutral"-like status over Camp Bondsteel and other strategic areas of Kosovo so as to not make it a military target for the Serbian Army coming back to Kosovo.
All in all such a move will create a lot of protests, violence, more ethnic cleansing of Serbs and a complete breakdown of all law and order instilled by the "international community" (UNMIK/EULEx). So now getting back to your statement, you say its important for Kosovo to never come back to Serbia? Well according to UN it never left, however if that is not enough for you by trying to get it to join Albania you will only put Kosovo's status in further limbo as there will be renewed conflict over that territory.
You have to understand EA that this conflict has become bigger than us (Serbs and Albanians). Its a power play between Russia and US/NATO and the way things are now are fine for both of them. US/NATO managed to get its base in that region of Europe and give Kosovo enough sovereignty to keep a pro US regime in power and keep the radical Albanians in check. Russia managed to show the world it sill matters on the world stage with regards to diplomatic matters (UN Security Council) and it used the precedent for its own mini Kosovo war (Georgia). The status quo serves them both well enough as it is not in the top agenda items of either nation. Yet another frozen conflict in Europe.
I am very sure you don't know anything about Albanian history and culture but I was pointing to the FACT that you don’t know the Mediterranean culture and history as well.
You ignore one of the most important moments in the Mediterranean and European history the inquisition period (not only in Spain although it is the most popular but also in Sicily for e.g.) the reason and consequences of it. You are EU citizen and you are free to travel in south Spain and met some "opportunistic" Spanish’s for example. You also ignore that many Hebrews converted in Christianity or even Islam.
About Albanian history you don't know almost anything. Wiki is not a source, I am sorry.
To know about Ali Pash Tepelena you will need to read something at least from George Gordon Byron, or Monte Cristo of Dumas. Or even better the masterpiece of Sabri Godo on Ali Pash Tepelena.
To make it short, not that Ali Pash Tepelena fought Ottomans for 30 years but he gained the respect of the entire Europe at that time. Britain, France etc all of them had the diplomatic seats in Janina at that time. The rebellions of other Balkan nations that you prefer as ‘pure’ Christians were at most couple of months my dear never a double digit number of months, never a single year- HUGE DIFFERENCE.
In the end not only he fought Ottomans but with Mark Botcarin the suliot he gave the freedom to Greece, as old south- Albanian song says. Certainly you ignore that as result of this common fight of Albanians and Greeks in the first assembly of the new Greek parliament at that time the discussions were should also Albanian be acknowledged as official language. You certainly ignore that top the first Greek ,military float orders were given in Albanian. Not really wised approach to opportunists what do you think??
You simply don't know a thing.
To make a pass out form Europe, what do you think why majority of autochthons in Caucasus as Chechens and many other ethnic groups inside Russia are Muslim???
To conclude a small advise: regardless if it is Albanians or whoever, you are just a small individual judging an entire nation or collectively, the probability that you are wrong is very very high. The likelihood that you are superficial is actually certainty.
"Doese Russia has to do anything with this??? hmmmm ;)"
Highly unlikely. Egypt's Mubarak is the second largest recipient in US foreign aid after Israel, so if anyone wants to claim outside patronage, one should wonder why Egypt, as another US client, hasn't recognized - it's got to be more than just Big Bad Russia doing arm twisting. Same goes for Israel. And even Mexico for that matter.
Peter,
I do not think that you understand the reason behind all those changes in our religious and ideological views. It is quite simple.
Throughout our history we have understood that ideologies (including religion) are not as important as family and nation. Moreover, when you are a small nation that does not belong to the pan-slavic political umbrella, for sure that you will find some other means of connecting with people. We are like the orphans of Europe, which is:
Not Slavic
Not Latin
Not Germanic
We did not change the religion because we liked the Ottoman empire. We were relatively more independent than most of the other nations, because we valued more our freedom than our ideologies.
Peter,
You mentioned the Greeks, which were almost an extinct nation after the fall of Byzantine Empire. The Slavic tribes settled in most Thessaly, Macedonia, and parts of Peloponesos. Albanian tribes moved from Epirus into West Peloponesos, Attica and Eubea. The Greek landscape was entirely devoid of population in the 15th century. It was also the fight of these new immigrant population, especially the Albanians, that gave Greece the independence.
Albanians were fighting more against the Ottomans than Greeks and Serbs. Yet, because they were moslem, their actions were considered more as power struggle than a fight for freedom.
As far as Muhamed Ali of Egypt, and Ali Pasha of Janina are concerned, I would like to advise you that historical figures cannot be analysed as good or bad. Moreover both of these figures fought against the Ottoman empire. Ali Pasha wanted to form an independent Epirus state and lost his life for it. Muhamed Ali fought against the Ottoman empire, and gave the independence to Egypt. There are good deeds and bad deeds that can be attributed to an historical figure.
History is not black and white. It is mostly grey.
In the past I quite often disagreed with your comments but what you wrote in the comment number 31 is the best short summery I have ever read about albanians.Reading such comments make feel that despite brainwashing Michnik style media in Poland and the fact that the real intellectual elite of Poland was wiped out almost entierely during the last century we can say that
there are still people who use their brain and heart.
"Umm, you mean like Libya, run by the dictator Gaddafi since 1969? Or Syria, run by the dictator al-Assad? Like Iran, run by the religious nut-job Khamenei? Eritrea, run by another dictator, Afewerki?
(Jan Andersen, DK, 1 April 2009 21:00)"
Neither Iran or Eritrea are full members of the Arab League. I think Egypt's support for Serbia stems from the Non-Aligned Movement. This was founded by Egypt, India and Yugoslavia.
Fair point, but then again, the Greeks also do not belong to any of the major European tribes and they stuck to their culture. That's just how it looks to an outsider, of course I do presume to teach you your own history or anything.
ben
I know a little about Albanian history, and personalities like Ali Pasha and Muhammad Ali do not give outsiders, such a myself, the best impression that Albanians were against the Ottoman Empire. On the other hand, there were great Albanians like Skenderbeg and Leke Dukagjini who fought against the Ottomans and have my greatest respect.
I know how dangerous the mass media is, whatever my opinions are that lean towards the West, they are not as a result of brainwashing, that much I can promise you.
Albania is only pro whoever is a major power at any given time. They changed their religion to Islam under Ottoman domination, unlike their neighbours, because they thought that the Ottoman Empire was a superpower that would exist forever and that they should get into bed with them.
Now you have the USA as the world's number one power, so Albania tries to get in bed with the West, with many Albanians starting to convert now to Christianity.
When China becomes THE world power, you will see, Albanians will drop the West, convert to Buddhism, remind the Chinese of how close Hoxha and Mao were and start waving Chinese flags.
if only you were honest to yourself, you wouldn´t even think of comparing Serbs and Albanians in that particular case!
I will try to explain it to you, my dear, even if the likelihood to succeed in your case is very low.
Serbs and Russians have a lot in common, not only religion but also a longer history of quite brotherly relations, I won´t deepen it further - there are enough history-books you could take into your hands, ( if only you did... )
Albanians and US-americans have almost nothing in common.
neither religion or culture, not even a history of common values, ...simply nothing. they simply use you as useful .....s. for their own geo-political interests.
that´s the reason why it looks like boot-licking if you wave us-flags. got it?
as for that "chest-beating"-thing, don´t worry my dear, I let that to my dear albanian friends to talk about "hell will break lose" ( "...if we get no independence" ) and other kind of childish macho-phrases.
it´s simply the albanian kind of tune to express desperation, and I guess there will follow something similar when those amongst you, who still believe to be descendants of the illyrians and also still believe to be "independent" finally realize that they were simply and thoroughly duped.
it´s yours to complain in the future. you only do not realize it yet.
so, don´t misunderstand me, I am not threatening or chest-beating at all - I only tell you what is a fact. as soon as there happens something like you "predicted", there will be some adequate reaction, that only comes naturally.
one year ago it was only the US-embassy, that was nothing, compared with what could happen if anyone illegally declared our southern province as a part of Albania.
then my dear friend, you would learn what trouble means. that´s only one logic consequence of your not-so-logic dreams.
the US won´t bomb us again, that´s what you can be sure of, my dear.
so defending, what is ours, with the support of two thirds of the whole planet is something completely different than ten years ago, when Serbia was generally seen as the pariah-state. since then the world has changed, my friend. and that´s something I am thankful to the K-albanians who burned 150 churches and monasteries, that alone brought internationally a lot of positive perception of the serbian point of view in regard to the K-issue. thanks for being so hostile, my dear albanian friend, you are helping the serbian cause with that!
but telling you all this, is actually only a waste of time, since you are stuck too deep in your little narrow world of "greater Albania".
actually, given that you are being duped by the americans and abused by your very own socalled "heroes", you have my sympathy.
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