Vojvodina Hungarians still seeking autonomy

From an american living in Subotica, if you want a Hungarian house, then go and live in Hungary...You remind of the problematic Albanians in Kosovo, which truly amazes me.

Serbia, you are the most geographically unluckiest country in the world.

You are surrounded by former Nazi collaborating countries who still, in this present day and age want a piece of you, any chance they can get...

Hungarians in Vojvodina shut up, stop being idle...wake up, your empire like mine is finished, so just get on with your life, or go to Hungary if you hate serbs so much...

Dear all,

It is a fault of Hungary for the fate of Vojvodina,

Hungary should play some cartoon games to make international community aware that they deserve to govern themsleves. Mickey Mouse games are famous in the balkans, as sometimes they attract a large number of people/countries. This type of MIckey Mouse play starts by establishing:

1.Minister for Vojvodina, in Budapest Office,

2.Organize election in Vojvodina and

3.Burn some border check points.

This is a famous receipt for bringing issue back on the table.

Soon UNSC will get involved, then SRGS will be stationed,...

Vojvodina needs to pay attention, learn from Kosovo and gain independence...ASAP

Peace to all,

Cheers

P.S. No recommendation PLEASE. This apply to ZK UK and other in Serbian camp too.

Serbia must be a great place to live if 250k ethnic Hungarians out of Voivodina's 2 million population prefer living in non-EU Serbia as opposed to the bright lights of the EU Budapest.They all have the rights to Hungarian citizenship right?These Joes must really be appreciative for being allowed to stay by the majority Serbs in Voivodina.Shalom

Mr. Pastor is doing a good job and not giving in to any pressure on the Hungarians right to Autonomy. If the Serbs in Bosnia have a right to autonomy than the Hungarians have the same right in Vojvodina.

How about "more than autonomy but less than independence"?

Strange, I thought the Serbian Government believed in autonomy, the large amount of automony offered to Kosovo isn't being offered to other Serbian regions. Or was that autonomy only offered to prevent Kosovo independence?

Mark, under the old Yugoslavian Constitution Vojvodina had all the rights as Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Montenegro, and Kosovo. In my opinion, Vojvodina should be seeking Independence, not Autonomy. Like Kosovo, Vojvodina was annexed in 1989 from the Yugoslavian Federation and that stated the break-up of a great county!!!

Mark

Kosovo was obviously offered autonomy as an alternative to independence but perhaps Serbia has learnt that when autonomy is offered independence is sought in consequence, ergo, it is not offering autonomy to the Hungarians. I would have thought that this would be obvious.
I don't think you would be taking such a critical stance if it was your country that was concerned. Especially if Mark Greeen is a pseudonym for an otherwise Albanian name, as is often the case with antagonistic comments on this site.

To be consistent Serbia should offer "functional separation" of Vojvodina from Serbia, whereas the Hungarian Government provides social services to Hungarians and their parallel structures have ties only to Budapest and not Belgrade. If that's good for Serbs in Kosova - only 5% of the population, it should be the absolute minimum for Hungarians in Vojvodina - 30% of Vojvodina's population.

-- Hey Goco --

in regards to your last remark so I guess the Serbs in Bosnia should have their autonomy taken away or are you saying that violence needs to break out, because you're saying peacefully you don't deserve autonomy ?

Everybody has rights and the right to govern themselves !

George if you read the constitution you refer to Kosovo and Vojvodina were part of serbia, and thu8s couldn't have been annexted in 1989.

Hungarians in Vojvodina shut up, stop being idle...wake up, your empire like mine is finished, so just get on with your life, or go to Hungary if you hate serbs so much...
(John, 3 June 2008 18:09)

Hungarians are in their own home, in their own land. None can send them away. Be careful what you wish Johnic. We are peaceful people but cannot tolerate your insult. If we want to be free to self govern our own home, this is the most important freedom right. I am surprised why B92 allow such comments?
Ferenc.

Serbs only ever historically occupied the lower part of Vojvodina. Their numbers rapidly increased after the great migration out of Ottoman controlled Kosovo by Serbs to the former Austro-Hungarian controlled regions of Vojvodina. The fact is that Serbs have for much of the past century colonised Vojvodina at the expense of other nationalities. In under a century Serbs went from being 20% to now 80% of Vojvodina's population.

Demographic records from the last 100 years indicate that the Serbs are the colonists into Vojvodina. The Hungarians deserve autonomy to protect their language and culture.

There really is no point continuing with this idea. Serbians comprise 67% of the population in Vojvodina so it is not going to happen.

But if the parties that are aligned to the DS keep pushing this idea, you can be sure that they will be out at the next election.

Either way, the pro-Serbian group can benefit from this talk. It really is quite amusing when people call for independence. They obviously have no idea of the situation on the ground.

It wasn't Tito's perogative to slice up Serbia w/ autonomous provinces.
Creating autonomous provinces were seeds that grew into the current mess plaguing Serbia. The misery because of this territorial raping has yet to cease.

For all you who think that the Hungarians of Vojvodina deserve autonomy.

Why? Do the Mexicans in California deserve autonomy because there are so many of them?

Also, how about we allow all the refugees from Krajina to return and then demand autonomy for them from Coratia?

When you allow all the minorities of the world to have autonomy in their respective countries only then can you ask for Hungarians to have autonomy.
Vojvodina is a part of Serbia where many Hungarians settled. So what.
Part of Mexico was taken by force and nobody cares and now that they live in great numbers in various parts they deserve autonomy more than the Hungarians do.
The Mexicans were never the enemy of the US. It was the other way around.

The Hungarians were the enemy of Serbia, so let's reward them now by giving them autonomy. That was Tito's twisted logic.

Vojvodina was apart of Hungary for 1,000 years and only a part of Yugoslavia since 1920 -- the Hungarians are the native people there, how can you kick them out or tell them to leave -- they've always been there!

This is the same rhetoric of fear I heard during the beginning of the problems with Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Kosova -- and look what happened ???

Freedom and Liberty for all people of Vojovodina

So Pastor is asking for the Hungarian Majority municipalites in Vojvodina to have autonomy within the already autonmomous Vojvodina. Sounds like it would be overly complicated and perhaps unworkable in practice.

Wake up the so called "foreign minister" and let him know that the people of Vojvodina want "functional seperation".

History is repeating itself and goes in cycles.
Dark forces and their collaborators are on offensive and try to rape international law and will push world to edge and World War III at some point. Will be the Serbian people who will trigger it by saying enough is enough � needs to be seen.
Aftermath of the war will be the same � Russia, Serbia and opposition forces to bullies and rapist will suffer but win again and will get more territories as reward for all sacrifices � just need to be patient again to choose which losers will accept to live with.

The Serbs are the majority in Vojvodina and the majority there does not want autonomy.

The Hungarians are around 15% and are only the majority in a small part of Vojvodina. If they get autonomy or independence of their small sectors of territory then the Hungarians should lose special status in the rest of Vojvodina and Serbia as they would no longer be a part of the country.

But there is no ethnic killing, home burning, church burning, no usurpation of property, no lack of freedom of movement, etc.

They are living well and are not hindered and restricted like the Serbs in Muslim and Croatia controlled territory.

They don't deserve autonomy since they are not the majority and have all the basic rights plus more.

Tito's constitutional changes in 1974 violated Serbia and gave rights to the provinces which eventually led to the problems we see today.

They should not have been given autonomy in the first place as the minorities did get their basic rights and freedom of movement in non war times.

The ethnic Albanians and Bosnian Muslims, etc. don't allow basic human rights and safety in peace time which is why the ethnic Serbs should not be forced to live under them.

The entire Croatian-Hungarian and Serb-Hungarian calamity begun at around 1848 when the revolutionary government in Budapest out of ignorance did not take care about problems of South-Slavonic people and Vienna used the opportunity to play the game with the naivity of Josip Jelačić. Jelačić successfully rallied Serbs and Croats against the regime in Budapest and the relation went from good-neutral to rather bad. During the last years or 19th Century the South-Slavonic (and Romanian and Slovak and Czech) "Public Relation Machine" was doing an excellent job with many bright journalists, politicians promoting THEIR cause. At the same time our P.R. machine did suck horribly, nothing was done and the Trianon disaster came when Hungarians were facing a very hostile and biased world - due neglecting the PR job to the "West" and not improving the relations to the "South-East".

After WW-I a good part of Hungary went to the future YU. Vojvodina is a smaller part of the loss of the territory - almost the entire Croatia was part of Hungarian kingdom.

What makes the smaller part of the loss (Vojvodina) so "special" is the massacre of several thousand Serbs and Jews by Hungarian nazis at begin of WW-II and a "counter-massacre" of ethnic Hungarians and Germans by Tito partizans at the end of the war. The relationship between the massacre and counter-massacre is roughly 1:10 (for every Serb or Jew killed, Tito killed 10 ethnic Hungarians or Germans). Of interest is, while the Hungarian Nazis had no gender/age "preference", Tito killed mostly male population (lame excuse, of course).

This issue is investigated now in silence. It looks, like the original idea was born (of course!) in the head of Stalin - very typical for him. This does little excuse to Tito, besides that who participated in Tito's (sorry: Stalin's) killings were from all over of Yugoslavia. Later Tito silently admitted - during a hunt (do these statesman love hunting!), he has many on his conscience. There were cases Serbs saving Hungarians and Germans from Soviets (and also Soviet officers acting with honor and stopping partizans). But the fact remains: partisans were the tool, Tito did not want (yet!) to stain his relationship with Stalin. The killings were ordered in Komintern and of course Tito had to do what he was ordered by Komintern to do. (Komintern = КОМмунистический ИНТЕРНационал).

So much about the "old" history. In more times after Hruschjov went to Belgrade like to Canossa (to excuse before Tito for Stalin's crimes) the situation in Vojvodina changed for better. The relations between Hungary and SFRJ were excellent in all honesty (not a "forced" relationship, stained by COMECON or Warsaw Pact). The Hungarians in Vojvodina made excellent money.

A sample: a beginner salary in Hungary at around 1980 was ca. 3000 Forint at best. A manager of a department of a research institute with PHD degree had at best 8000 - 10000 Forint / month. At that time 30 Forint were $1, so you see the math: in Hungary $300/month, $5000/year at best was the salary of a 50 year old manager with PHD.

1978 we went to Ulcinj to a 10-day vacation. We met many Vojvodina-Hungarians and they told us THEIR numbers. That was "awe and shock" for us. With 1.2 Forint = 1 Dinar in 1978 we heard about villagers making 1mio. "new" Dinars / year, almost TEN times my dad had.

These were THEIR "golden years", I guess. In Ulcinj some girls of our group were busy to... get to marry ASAP over-the-border into Vojvodina into these Dinars. (And their efforts were so funny, half of our group did laugh). Ultimately, Vojvodina did not matter, everything "od Vardara pa do Triglava" of male gender was OK for them... One day some members of our group just disappear: they went to Bar, bought one-way ferry tickets to Bari. For many refugees, SFRJ was the first step to the West: 1978 traveling from Hungary to the West was not a trivial thing. Political pressure did stay for an other decade. We left Hungary illegally 1988. Was no fun!

My comments to the comments:

to #1: probably. Not sure, what pressure is there tough. I know, some Hungarians who are really nuts (I mean here László Toroczkai, just google on him...). Besides, Vojvodina is (again, since January 23 2002) already autonomous. The autonomy was restored on January 23, 2002.

to #2: I would say, more economy. This is what is needed badly. Here Hungary can't help. If Serbia plays right, they can get Hungarian small business in great numbers - because currently it's an endangered species in Hungary.

to #3: again, Vojvodina is autonomous territory. There are few things still missing. It will be perfect only if borders would be abolished. This is what is killing the economy and society. Of course, Hungarians want Serbian refugees from Kosovo to return. Uh-oh. This is disturbing the balance in communities. But there are some problems with refugee return, aren't there?

to #4: Goca, the issue is over, Vojvodina has autonomy since January 23, 2002. I don't understand why everyone says, it does not.

to #5: John, to be honest, I suspect you are as American as some Albanians here. You probably do not speak Hungarian. If you would, you would discover, the picture is very different than what you paint. Vojvodina always was home of significant Hungarian population, still is and always will be. Serbia-hate is not widespread (except Hungarian diaspora overseas) - just the opposite. For many Hungarians who live in Serbia, Hungary itself became too "westernized" (in pejorative sense). The Hungarians in Vojvodina have enough differences from Hungarians in Hungary to prefer living in a slightly different place, some would rather move to BG than to BP. Sadly, a flat in BG is probably twice as expensive as BP and even more sadly, my Dollars are now worth a piece of г-но in both. At ca. 150 Ft or 50 Din it's a catastrophic exchange rate (thankya Dubya!)

That reminds me: don't cheer much about USA "empire is finished". If we sneeze, Hungary and Serbia gets cold and Albania will have a pneumonia. Better stay healthy and cross your fingers, some idiots from Texas will return to Texas, the sooner the better.

to #6: "Everybody has rights and the right to govern themselves !" The series of genocide in Africa is the proof, that right does exist but not everyone is mature to exercise it. I know PROVINCE in Western Balkans which certainly is not mature enough (except it's Serbian minority).

to #7: Yes, this is also my question. For me it's not entirely clear, what really does VMSZ want. Looks like autonomy within autonomy!?! I did read few things and as far as I understand (yes, even for me it's not clear!) the issue they are pressing is a two-stage autonomy where communities with clear Hungarian majority would form some kind of union. What is worse, it seems like VMSZ is hanging on FIDESZ which is a populist Hungarian opposition party ( now much more popular than the MSZP minority government )

Later about that in #15.

to #8: No, Vojvodina and Kosovo had only autonomy. This is incorrect. Besides, Vojvodina is a mini-Jugo itself. An independent Vojvodina would last a nanosecond before Croats, Serbs, Hungarians, Romanians, and few Rom, Albanians, Slovaks begin to quarrel. A perfect place for an other American Neocon Democracy Building Experiment (TM). A real perfect one because many Croatians, Serbs, Hungarians, Slovaks are inter-married, so the True Democracy Building can go into families, not just one street against an other street like in K. Mitrovica.

to #9: mostly yes. However, as "bad" as MSZP in Hungary and DS in Serbia is, currently there is (almost) nothing better out there. Like with the E.U. Pretty bad and evil. But the saddest part is, it's the best thing out there.

to #10: you have two choices: a) convince people to stick together using bayonettes and bullets b) convince people to stick together by economic means. b) makes sense. But people do not like bayonettes and once they feel a bit more free from the hated bayonette they tend to get rid of the structures which make sense. Chinese did focus on economy while keeping the bayonettes close to the body of citizens. In CCCP an SFRJ the economy was neglected; once bayonettes were removed, people begun to fight (and here West did "help" a lot to destroy what makes sense. And oh, these "helpful" wahabbite fighters, thanks for nothing!)

to #11: in the theory, yes, they MAY get Hungarian citizenship after some pain-in-the-rear procedure. This would make sense mostly for taking jobs in other EU countries.... but amazingly, Hungarian flood did not happen, neither Vojvodina-Hungarian attack on citizenship office. Nothing to "appreciate" to be "allowed" to stay in Vojvodina tough. I can say that because I am not from the area. I called SR consulate regarding working permits, long-stay visa etc. and I was told, won't be a problem. So I DO appreciate because SR has no objections that I move there. But the ancestors of these Hungarians lived there for many centuries, they are locals. If you say, they should be thankful not to be cleansed out of the area that is bizarre. They stay there, live with that. Sometimes there will be a slight move from Hungary, sometimes to Hungary. On the other side, there is a tension because Serbian refugees from Kosovo did bring some inbalance. While it's their country as well and they have the right to live in any place, there is an uproar in certain Hungarian communities. I have no problem to celebrate X'mas and Easter twice but let's face it: people in villages are always more conservatve and scared if a large group of newcomers arrives. I am not politician, don't ask me what to do!

to #12: already mentioned. Vojvodina autonomy was restored on January 23, 2002.

to #13: Not "Jonic" but "Jovan". Otherwise pretty much agree. Just wish, V-Hungarians would kick out the idiots like László Toroczkai, to demonstrate, they are with the law and against the hatred. L.T. was kicked out of Serbia the second time. Hope, his ban from Serbia has at least a signature from an ethnic Hungarian judge. That would serve the best. Otherwise I think, Hungary and Serbia are the most free and democratic countries in the world. I can first torch half of Budapest, attack the TV station, ride a T-34 battle tank in the middle of the city and burn a few hundred cars. After having such a great fun (it was on Oct. 23 2006), I can move south, and organize an anti-Serb rally in Subotica on May 11, 2008 (that's during elections, right?). Barely any punishment in both cases.

to #14: how on Earth, Ida, would they get Hungarian schools, Hungarian local judges, Hungarian libraries, Hungarian police without autonomy? Autonomy is precisely a tool for minority to ensure their existence against full assimilation. With catastrophic Hungarian birth rates that is needed.

to #15: I am not sure who is with alliance with whom. "They" are not sure either. One is sure, to a large degree, FIDESZ is the patron of VMSZ and this is a trouble for Pásztor being with Tadic. The natural ally of Tadic would be MSZP, at worst SZDSZ - but by no means a populist-nationalist party like FIDESZ led by a mini-Duce figure (Orbán). Here we are at Hungarian politics matching Serbian. One is a big enough headache. Matchmaking both together is a major headache. IMHO, FIDESZ is duping VMSZ, they don't care less about Vojvodina-Hungarians but they need votes. Since Pásztor quasi-reports to FIDESZ but the same time declares himself an ally of Tadic'.... I think, I do see pigs fly a formation. Or maybe just let take a pragmatic stand. Pásztor seem to be honestly concerned about the economic situation and jobs in Vojvodina. Tadic seem to be honestly concerned about the same. Viktor Orbán seem to be honestly concerned only about Viktor Orbán and Ferenc Gyurcsány does have many answers wrong. Is better to elect "mostly failed but sometimes OK politics" or a "crossover between Benito Mussolini and Stalin"? For Pásztor, I would rather try to get rid of such "Stalinini" patron... the problem is, FIDESZ has the Forint the communities in Vojvodina need now badly.


to #16: let me twist your logic, Peggy. You say "Hungarians were the enemy of Serbia". Why do you need an enemy? The "Neocon"-s need an enemy, because in their belief, America's destiny is to lead the struggle between the good and evil. They NEED that struggle, they need the enemy, otherwise the entire thing what they do does not make sense.

Serbs here are right while complaining about their nation being "collectively punished".
Now you (Peggy) do the same. For wrongdoings of a fascist regime you want to punish the entire nation? I am sure, you know where the cities of Srpski Kovin and Sentandreja are and what is the name of the long street in Budapest between Elisabeth and Freedom bridge and who lived there.
For a good decade, Soviet Union was a bitter enemy of SFRJ. Would you say, Russians were enemy of Serbia?

For how long Hungarians or Serbs settled in Vojvodina is disputed by every scholar. I do not want to go into arguments because we cannot argue about the number of angels which can fit on the top of a needle. I just say: "Agglutinative-speaking and Slavic-speaking people lived in Vojvodina for a long enough time to grant them a status of native population".

Is Mr Pastor in aliance with Mr Tadic if I remember?...

John wrote:

"Serbia, you are the most geographically unluckiest country in the world.

You are surrounded by former Nazi collaborating countries who still, in this present day and age want a piece of you, any chance they can get... "

John, why put the cart before the horse!

Being favoured by the great powers in the early 20th century Serbia expanded beyond any measure and moderation! That is why it ended with ларге minorities within its borders. Aнd that is one of the reasons (the other being the communst threat) that turned all of Serbias neighbors into nazi colaborators. Keep in mind that they became such long before the horrors of nazism were revealed. That by no means absolves their then leaders from the crimes they have perpetrated! But the fact remains that almost all East Europeans from the Fins, through the Balts, down to the Albanians collaborated with Hitler.
We have no more reasons to blame East European nations than blame the West for not implementing a just revision of the Versaille border system and providing them with adequate protection from the Soviet threat. Had the West done so, may be the likes of Hitler could have never come to power.

(nik, 4 June 2008 13:00)

Nick: Best post ever.

Any presumable collaboration with Nazis in WW2 was only and only driven by patriotic feelings- nothing to do with teh ideology. Although the comparison is inappropriate morally, It would be like blaming K-Albanians today why they align with NATO and US? It’s obvious why- they respect out culture.

Ataman: you are hilarious. You don't miss the opportunity to attack Albanians even when they have nothing to do with you- i.e. colonization of Vojvodina- this is the topic, this is the issue stay on that.

Though, thank you for introducing to me the Gen. Giorgio Basta- I was ignoring his existence, although never ignored that Albanians were never in the corner of the European culture- as many other nations were and still are.

Hey Ataman stop portraying yourself to be Hungarian when we all know that you are not and keep your ridiculous philosophies to yourself.

Vojovodina will not break away in violence it will be a process; first the decentralization further of Serbia having Vojvodina and Serbia on equal status but in the same federation and then an eventual split.

Vojvodina was already sined away back in the summer of 2000 by Djindic and Kostunica otherwise they would never have gotten the support from the West to defeat Milosevic. That meeting took place in Hungary, you might want to look up on that -- it was the final dissolution of Yugoslavia in a peaceful manner, first was for the full autonomy of Vojvodina to be restored in "Yugoslavia" and then Montenegro to separate and then automatically Kosovo and Vojvodina are independent but of course after in power Kostunica tried to change the format by siging with Montenegro back in 2003 to be a loose state of Serbia and Montenegro so that if they leave Kosovo and Vojvodina would legally become autonomous in Serbia according to international law.

Regardless of the wrangling, Kosova and Vojvodina are both gone, whether Kostunica likes it or not.

haven't you heard of the formation of the Vojvodina passport ???

Regardless of the wrangling, Kosova and Vojvodina are both gone, whether Kostunica likes it or not.

haven't you heard of the formation of the Vojvodina passport ???
(Freedom, 4 June 2008 17:44)

I'm Serb from Novi Sad(Vojvodina) and i can tell you we are not going anywhere outside Serbia.Level of financial autonomy from central government is the most important thing when we speak about autonomy,it has nothing to do with creation of some quasi state.So,unless you can transport 1.5 million Serbs from Vojvodina to Mars,we are not going anywhere!

Why not have the Croatians craft a solution? They are the darlings of the west. Surely they have some enlightened ideas as to how to handle minorities.

As far as I'm concerned, Hungary burned its bridges with Serbia when it recognised Pristina's UDD last April or thereabouts. Had Budapest not done so, it would have been in a much better bargaining position with its brethern in Vojvodina to use as leverage with the Serbian government.

Budapest could have used the ethnic Hungarians to gain further influence in Vojvodina by having a say in its cultural affairs and engage in a strong consultative role with Belgrade. A deal may have been hammered out, in that in return for Budapest not recognising Pristina UDD, Hungary could have had a consultative role in Vojvodina's affairs (very much like the Irish government's role under the Anglo-Irish agreement with the UK and Good Friday Agreement) for example cross border bodies and dual nationality. Instead, the shortsightness of Budapest in appeasing its Brussels and Washington masters scuppered any potential deal with Belgrade and worsened relations between both governments and both communities in Serbia.

Vojvodina like Serbia itself is a mini-Yugo and Vojvodina needs more autonomy which would bring more red tape like a hole in the head. Firstly, Serbian bureaucracy is so full of red tape, you have to see it to believe it. Believe you me, I know what I'm talking about having gone through it myself when I was in Serbia numerous times. For example in Stara Pazova, the ethnic Slovak and Czech police and local government officials handed me a numerous registration documents to sign...and guess what, it was in 8 different languages. I had to get assistance from an ethnic Albanian lady to sign the damn things. Sweet Jesus, the confusion. Lastly, Serbs now make up the majority in the province so more autonomy simply would not work.

What Serbia needs is less red tape. The Autonomous Province of Kosmet is different where you have 90% of the population is ethnic Albanian. The offer of substantial autonomy would work there since Albanians would be free to conduct their own internal affairs.

Finally, Serbia is I believe a model of how a multicultural society should be run. All my time there I did not encounter any problems or tension between the various ethnic groups who mingled freely in the shops and markets. For example in the apartment where I stayed, it was a microcosm of old Yugoslavia. Jewish guy in the basement. Bosniak family who lived above me with the snotty nosed kids, a Croatian family, local botiques owned and run by Hungarians and the drunk ex JNA Slovenian guy who terrorised the Serb grandmothers :)) Not to mention the K-Albanian booksellers, newspaper vendors and taxi drivers who earn their crust on the streets of the Serbian capital.

I think some of the Albanian irredentists should take a trip to Belgrade and Novi Sad and see how society with many different ethnic groups and languages live in peace and harmony together.

"The Serbs are the majority in Vojvodina and the majority there does not want autonomy. "

Ida, sorry ,but you don`t understand those people. Yes, they want autonomy, and it`s not a question of nationality. They are very similar to us (Romanian Banat). Cosmopolitans, Europeans.

--- Hey Igor ---

Nobody is going to transport any Serbs to Mars and Vojvodina is not going to the Moon -- Vojvodina will stay exactly where it is; north of Serbia, south of Hungary and right in the middle of Europe, so don't worry!

There is 65% Serbs in Vojvodina and many have mixed marriages and not to mention thousands of Hungarians that left the country when they got draft papers and now want to come back, but it does not matter any how because there will not be a vote on this. Just like the Assembly after WWI when the majority on that assembly were Serbs and of course they voted for unification with "Yugoslavia" even though the Serbs were 28% of the total population and the Hungarians and Germans alone had a higher population % -- it was designed that way to make it happen!!!

When Kosova went Independent, they did not vote -- the leaders did a Unilateral Declaration of Independence, even though they would have got the vote from the people, its just the painting of a bigger picture to come.

Have you seen the Vojvodina Passport? It has Hungarian, Serb and English writing on it and NO SERB CYRILLIC writing on it and look at the symbols --- not one Serb symbol on it, the Vojvodina and Serbia passports don't look similar in any way -- do you think that's an accident?

Are you going to tell me that you've never heard of Vojvodina asking to be on same status as Serbia in a single federation, and you're not aware of Vojvodina having a seat at the European Assembly ???

I can go on and on if you like on this issue, there is so much to know and by the way Adrian you won't hear too much about this in Vrsac and if you want to hear anyone talk about Separatits in Vojvodina -- Velimir Illic has called so many politicians Separatists up here in Vojvodina and they're not even Hungarian, so I'm not sure what you're watching or hearing.

Vojvodina is in the early pages of a new chapter that will be beneficial and prosperous for all citizens regardless of your ethnic background.

Freedom for all

While I wrote my longest ever essay, we got #17, #18, #19 and #20.
Hope B92 won't mind if I continue my "attack" on everyone.


#17: Easy answer to you, you do not need (if you are from Kosovo) a visa to visit Vojvodina. Go there, take a look and find the community which has any analogy with Kosovska Mitrovica. Leave the bloodthirsty deities like Aztec Qurtzalcoatl (the Pigeon-Snake-God) with you. No Quetzal in Vojvodina, sorry.

#18: So was Croatia. Don't forget, according László Toroczkai his "Koszovó" or "Rigómezö" was also part of Hungarian Kingdom.
That does not mean, they want to grant people from Rigómezö Hungarian citizenship. They want to make there room for THEIR Great Hungary. Any objections?

#19: Yes. This is true (mostly). Few additions. The colonisation by Serbs did not happen "at expense". It happened because the mercenaries of a certain general Giorgio Basta raped and killed on Délvidék every being who/what was having at least one leg and was not furniture. Later they paid a friendly visit all over Balkans.

Here is the link to Basta:

http://tinyurl.com/4rubtv


Sorry, what is written there is "wiki" and not my fault.

Serbs were invited to come to burned, empty place. They came as far as Szentendre. A nice, late Gothic church full of frescoes is in Ráckeve (Srpski Kovin, near Budapest). Unfortunately photography not allowed unless a permit from a person high enough in the Orthodox Church hierarchy is presented!

#20: People of Vojvodina do not need advice from high priest of Qutzalcoatl-cult. They are mostly agnostic, catholic, orthodox, protestant. With General Basta they had enough Quetzals in the past, thank you. You are of course welcome, just leave that bird-snake

http://tinyurl.com/4n52kz

at home.

My God, Ataman, you deserve a medal. That must be the biggest comment I've seen on this site!

To Freedom/Shefki/Seciri/Sefced/whatever your name is

Your aptitude for twisting facts is amazing. Hungarians make up 30% in Vojvodina? Wikipedia's entry alone will tell you they make up less than 15%....

I fully agree with Igors view. I have many friends (and also relatives) in Vojvodina. Serbs, hungarians and romanians. I never heard that someone wanted to separate from Serbia. But yes, they all want a higher degree of autonomy. But what`s wrong with that?

#25: Serbia did not expand. Yugoslavia did. There is still debated, what the words "Serb", "Croat", "Bosnian", "Montenegrin" do mean. And that mess called "Macedonia"... 10 people have 20 opinions, who "Macedonians" are, better not to touch that subject. As far as Soviet threat: yes, it was. It had different face and the West never had an adequate reaction. The most recent one (neo-conservative agenda) is one of the most catastrophic, we all suffer from that. There were even Russian and Ukrainian nazi collaborators, by the way.

#26: yes, this is precisely why recognizing UDI was a horrible move. Vojvodina/Délvidék was dropped like a hot cake, the tongue was deeply buried in the rear opening of a village idiot from Texas. And agree with the entire post.

Albanian posters really need to open their eyes, forget that village idiot from Texas and travel few times between BG and BP. It's a very different world out there.

#27: yes. The deepest Serbia-hatred is coming not from Vojvodina-Hungarians (remember: they shot down that F-117 !) but from some dark self-fug ratholes in the lumpen neighborhoods in Hungary (max. 10% of population) or SUV-infested residential areas of Los Angeles/Cleveland/Miami where broken Hungarian is spoken (do you really care about these?). The rest wants to get kids schooled partly in BP, partly in BG (depending on curriculum), driving cars with license plates of the country where taxes are lower, go to Greece or Spain for vacation and have enough Din and Ft in their OTP account.

#28: I think, around 15% or so indeed. The presence is everywhere (street names, business names, you walk and you always hear somebody speaking). So it's strong enough to deserve special attention (without infamous "special cases" no one wants besides Toroczkai). The importance of the circus now is less Vojvodina, more the "tangled web" (tm) of Hungarian domestic politics. It's a nasty world and here VMSZ and Pásztor are just an excuse for FIDESZ. As I told, Mr. mini-duce does not care about Great Hungary, he cares only about Great Viktor Orbán. If in order to achieve his goal he would need to kiss the hand of R. Mladić and declare the war on the "Snake" - he will do it today.

#29: See, these "dark forces" ( = American neo-conservatives ) are saying precisely the same what you do, just name different actors.

#30: Yes, allying with the crazy nazi ideology was used by all nazi collaborators in the hope, it will solve their own country's problems. At that stage I would call it "Nationalism" not "Patriotism". Antonescu or Szálasi were not patriots.

NATO does not respect your culture. *** some *** in the U.S. arw intent to take your culture down and import the usual sub-culture. Come and live in the U.S. for a while to experience. You probably know these links here - pretty funny to speak about "culture"...

My favorite:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANTDkfkoBaI

There are more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8SuCBHqXtQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esbS_vT25GU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ghdwINqirU

These samples are extreme, of course. USA has a lot of intelligent people and I like the country. But I don't like *** some FEW *** politicians and the very low level of education. In that spirit, I am going to vote this November with hope for a change.

Otherwise, Giorgio Basta had a lot to do with Southern Hungary. In Hungarian schools his deeds and the horrors he brought to Hungary are being teached. But his ethnic background is - out of political correctness - not touched. I just recently learned, he was Albanian.

#31: Freedom, you should read Hungarian press and their endless reports about Albanian criminals menacing Hungarian freeways, Albanian prostitution and drug rings in Budapest and such. I had no personal experience on that area, but some rather unpleasant memories we had in Kosovo.

You are right. Of course, I am not Hungarian, not even American. We got the contract from Mr. Pásztor regarding the new Vojvodina passports. There was some mistake during the first print phase, so I got these instead:

http://tinyurl.com/44lvlj

But in the next phase we will correct the mistake and print Vojvodina passports featuring the correct emblem of a Polar Bear from Medvedja.


#32: You will like your new passport with a Polar Bear!

ben wrote: "Regardless of the wrangling, Kosova and Vojvodina are both gone, whether Kostunica likes it or not. "

Gone where???

Most of the people on Vojvodina want to go to the EU. To end up in a borderless Schengen zone, where the Euro is the only currancy. And that is where Vojvodina will surely end up.
Whether it goes with the rest of Serbia or alone, depends on the wisdom of the Serbian politicians.
If they realize that EU integrationa has no option, and that Kosovo is gone, then there is still plenty of time for Serbia to end up in Europe as a whole (without Kosovo),
Kosovo and Vojvodina have nothing in comon, other than the status they once enjoyed.
Kosovo is underdeveloped, muslim Albaniana, archibalkan, if I may coin such a term. Vojvodina is with a Serbian majority, tolerant and Central European. Belgarde, just across the Sava is practically "Vojvodinized".
The question remains: Will Shumadia too be "Vojvodinized", or the obsession with myths will drag it down.
History shows that nobody takes lessons from history. Yet is the history of the Yugo wars (1991-1999) are an indication, if (Kosovoless!!!)Serbia tries to chenge its persent borders it is likely that they will be eventually changed in its detriment!

--- Mr. Ataman ---

The stuff you write is complete non-sense has no real meaning what so ever, and what does this blog have to do with the Albanian mafia in Hungary, and passport links -- I urge you to look at the Vojvodina Passport, because its just the beginning of how things start or maybe you have and you're not too happy about it. Regardless, it applies to everyone in Vojvodina and to their benefit as it was created that way.

Jovan and Delije, I'm not into hate or nationalism and neither should you, there is no need to fight for anything, Vojvodina is home to over 20 established ethnic groups and has similarities to Belgium and Switzerland and most of all has the opportunity to give prosperity to every citizen regardless of your ethnicity.

Mr. Kostunica has dramatically increased the value $$$ of Vojvodina with the NIS deal --- 2 pipelines to go through Vojvodina; one to Hungary and the other to Croatia --- that will bring in huge revenues to a region of only 2 million people and not to mention the strong Agriculture it has.

You should read #35 Blog and if you want more information more than glad to pass it along, because good times are just around the corner. Vojvodina is getting closer and will achieve independence with a Hungarian Autonomous Region.

Freedom to everyone in Vojvodina

Delije -- nationalism is not something that has anything to do with me, I don't put down any other people, because everybody is the same and should be treated that way --- Vojvodina is Vojvodina's and it belongs to every single citizen in Vojvodina regardless of their ethnic background -- please understand this.

PJD -- the project of the "Vojvodina Passport" was to float the idea and wait and see the reaction --- which is what the goal was not make it legal, I'm sorry I should have been more clear on this -- if you see the picture of it which is what my intention was; you'll see the 2 passports (Vojvodina and Serbia) are not similar and are not meant to be similar. This passport cannot be legal unless Beograd allows and they will never do that -- but the reaction was strong and especially Mr. Kostunica's in private.

The project is the same as when the government wants to introduce a new tax for example; first you float the idea and wait for the reaction and then either say you were just trying something new or just had "consultants analyzing" something. Remember they never said it was a JOKE until after the reaction came out -- do you really think a joke would ever be a joke if it would question something like this -- think about it, look at the reaction of Mr. Illic.

Don't be surprised in the near future if some EU countries say we won't accept the Serb passport but will accept the Vojvodina one ???

The project of the Vojvodina Passport was not meant to be a joke -- just to float the idea first, and I'm sorry I should have been more clear on that.

Are you aware what the possible revenues might be with the oil pipelines coming through Voivodina, its worth looking into as well -- won't be bad for a population of only 2 million?

Breakdown continues see next Vojvodina

-- Hey Ataman --

I guess Delije is Aztec!

Nobody has asked my background but since now its been brought up --- I'm part Hungarian and the other thing you said about me being from some "dark hole in Southern Serbia and hating Slavic people -- I'm part Slavic as well so hating anybody who is Slavic is IMPOSSIBLE, and thanx for your WRONG INFORMATION AGAIN!!!

Me being Albanian is completely wrong, but if there are Albanians out there who wish to support the Hungarians and the other ethnic minorities in Vojvodina -- your support is always welcome as is any other People of any Race to help Vojvodina ahcieve complete Freedom!

The other thing Mr. Ataman, Istvan Pastor had and does not have anything to do with the Vojvodina Passport issue and has not once said anything about Independence, he wants to secure Autonomy to preserve the Hungarian culture and identity -- the same exact thing the Bosnian Serbs have done -- and every Nation has that Right!

Somehow I still doubt you being Hungarian, just on the words you use and the way it comes --- just doesn't sound right.

Did you read about the oil pipeline deal being signed yesterday in Beograd???

I was born and raised in Vojvodina and let me tell you Hugarians have it better than Serbs in some respects.
You have education from 1st grade through medical school in Hungarian language.Not even America has that for minorities.I remember how Hungarians faired during the NATO agression when they migrated to Hugary and it was not good.Hungarians should seek autonomy from Romania who is EU and leave Srbija alone.This boils my blood that every former fascist enemy of Srbija now wants a piece.The Germans have vowed to keep dealings with Srbija as far away from international law as possible.We are being punished still for our defiance of the new world order I pray that sooner or later we do not end up with just central Srbija and a sliver of RS.What was once Srbijan land has decreased dramatically but I think we would fight for Vojvodnia a bit more than Albanian overrun Kosovo-Metohija.

Is "Freedom" after his own column on B92?

This does not make any sense. Vojovodina already has autonomy and Mr Pastor and others should not promote seperatist tendencies in Vojvodina where there are many nationalities that have lived harmoniously together for many years. It is important for other parties and majority to respect diversity at the same time. Anything above this is pure speratism or other aspirations supported perhaps by neighboring Hungary that should not be tolerated or given into

Delije,

Freedom is as Hungarian as you Aztec.
He has nothing to do with Vojvodina.

Any NORMAL discussion about what degree of autonomy or autonomy within autonomy does make sense and no one is 100% right. Discussions about Hungarian domestic problems are not much off since there are thousands of links between Hungarians in Vojvodina and their peers in Hungary or in immigration somewhere else.

The problem is, if unsolicited "friends" of Hungarian cause appear from nowhere (more precisely: from a dark nationalist hole in Southern Serbia). They have zero understanding of Vojvodina or Hungarian domestic issues. They probably never been there and never did see a single Hungarian. In their endless hatred of anything of Slavic origin they try to pretend to be "friends" of Hungarians or sometimes even pretend to be Hungarians.

I am allergic to this and every time I see, I will mention "Quetzalcoatl" and Albanian crime rings in Budapest. You don't like it? That stop pretend to be friends of Hungarians or Vojvodina or poke Serbs, Russians in the eye. No poking and no game playing with Vojvodina = no Quetzalcoatl will be mentioned. Fair enough? Otherwise my best wishes to residents of Kosovo or Albania and crossing my fingers to see the condition of their lives improve.

"Freedom" - since you proven to be 100% wrong about me not being a Hungarian, please take a good look at the passport on my old link on the right as well.

http://tinyurl.com/44lvlj

I am old enough to see from inside, who is a FALSE friend of Albanians. Don't get fooled by some who have the same passport but pretend to be your friends. They have their agenda and Albanians are merely a tool.

Vojvodina isn't going anywhere. They have enough autonomy as it is. Freedom, can you get the Serbs (around 70% of Vojv. pop.) to vote infavour of independence. I think not. Kosovo is a sad never ending story, but Vojvodina, Serbias breadbasket, well I think Belgrade will fight 10x harder to keep that. Vojvodina is fine where it's at. And it will be there for a long time to come. I think the world has had enough with the Balkans, and will probably ignor the Hungarians calls for autonomy or independence. Alot of people here call Serbs nationalistic, now that's the pot calling the kettle black. Do you hear yourself Freedom, KV, Ferenc, Gashi, Sincity, PRN, ...ETC. your just the same as us but on the other side of the fence. VOJVODINA IS SERBIA!!! And that's that. LOL!!!

Mr. Pastor is living a dream its like he thinks there is more hungarians than Serbs there like when he said there is Serbs and others living there is he joking are what the Serb population in vojvodina is 75% and the hungarians are not even 200,000 anymore ... he better read more and learn more before he talks because he sounds uneducated.

Freedom, your as nationalistic as they come. Your just one of 5% that wants independence. Vojvodina is Serbia's.

Freedom - the Vojvodina passport was a joke:

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2007&mm=09&dd=08&nav_id=43611

From an american living in Subotica, if you want a Hungarian house, then go and live in Hungary...You remind of the problematic Albanians in Kosovo, which truly amazes me.

Serbia, you are the most geographically unluckiest country in the world.

You are surrounded by former Nazi collaborating countries who still, in this present day and age want a piece of you, any chance they can get...

Hungarians in Vojvodina shut up, stop being idle...wake up, your empire like mine is finished, so just get on with your life, or go to Hungary if you hate serbs so much...

Mark, under the old Yugoslavian Constitution Vojvodina had all the rights as Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Montenegro, and Kosovo. In my opinion, Vojvodina should be seeking Independence, not Autonomy. Like Kosovo, Vojvodina was annexed in 1989 from the Yugoslavian Federation and that stated the break-up of a great county!!!

Hungarians in Vojvodina shut up, stop being idle...wake up, your empire like mine is finished, so just get on with your life, or go to Hungary if you hate serbs so much...
(John, 3 June 2008 18:09)

Hungarians are in their own home, in their own land. None can send them away. Be careful what you wish Johnic. We are peaceful people but cannot tolerate your insult. If we want to be free to self govern our own home, this is the most important freedom right. I am surprised why B92 allow such comments?
Ferenc.

Mr. Pastor is doing a good job and not giving in to any pressure on the Hungarians right to Autonomy. If the Serbs in Bosnia have a right to autonomy than the Hungarians have the same right in Vojvodina.

-- Hey Goco --

in regards to your last remark so I guess the Serbs in Bosnia should have their autonomy taken away or are you saying that violence needs to break out, because you're saying peacefully you don't deserve autonomy ?

Everybody has rights and the right to govern themselves !

How about "more than autonomy but less than independence"?

Strange, I thought the Serbian Government believed in autonomy, the large amount of automony offered to Kosovo isn't being offered to other Serbian regions. Or was that autonomy only offered to prevent Kosovo independence?

For all you who think that the Hungarians of Vojvodina deserve autonomy.

Why? Do the Mexicans in California deserve autonomy because there are so many of them?

Also, how about we allow all the refugees from Krajina to return and then demand autonomy for them from Coratia?

When you allow all the minorities of the world to have autonomy in their respective countries only then can you ask for Hungarians to have autonomy.
Vojvodina is a part of Serbia where many Hungarians settled. So what.
Part of Mexico was taken by force and nobody cares and now that they live in great numbers in various parts they deserve autonomy more than the Hungarians do.
The Mexicans were never the enemy of the US. It was the other way around.

The Hungarians were the enemy of Serbia, so let's reward them now by giving them autonomy. That was Tito's twisted logic.

As far as I'm concerned, Hungary burned its bridges with Serbia when it recognised Pristina's UDD last April or thereabouts. Had Budapest not done so, it would have been in a much better bargaining position with its brethern in Vojvodina to use as leverage with the Serbian government.

Budapest could have used the ethnic Hungarians to gain further influence in Vojvodina by having a say in its cultural affairs and engage in a strong consultative role with Belgrade. A deal may have been hammered out, in that in return for Budapest not recognising Pristina UDD, Hungary could have had a consultative role in Vojvodina's affairs (very much like the Irish government's role under the Anglo-Irish agreement with the UK and Good Friday Agreement) for example cross border bodies and dual nationality. Instead, the shortsightness of Budapest in appeasing its Brussels and Washington masters scuppered any potential deal with Belgrade and worsened relations between both governments and both communities in Serbia.

Vojvodina like Serbia itself is a mini-Yugo and Vojvodina needs more autonomy which would bring more red tape like a hole in the head. Firstly, Serbian bureaucracy is so full of red tape, you have to see it to believe it. Believe you me, I know what I'm talking about having gone through it myself when I was in Serbia numerous times. For example in Stara Pazova, the ethnic Slovak and Czech police and local government officials handed me a numerous registration documents to sign...and guess what, it was in 8 different languages. I had to get assistance from an ethnic Albanian lady to sign the damn things. Sweet Jesus, the confusion. Lastly, Serbs now make up the majority in the province so more autonomy simply would not work.

What Serbia needs is less red tape. The Autonomous Province of Kosmet is different where you have 90% of the population is ethnic Albanian. The offer of substantial autonomy would work there since Albanians would be free to conduct their own internal affairs.

Finally, Serbia is I believe a model of how a multicultural society should be run. All my time there I did not encounter any problems or tension between the various ethnic groups who mingled freely in the shops and markets. For example in the apartment where I stayed, it was a microcosm of old Yugoslavia. Jewish guy in the basement. Bosniak family who lived above me with the snotty nosed kids, a Croatian family, local botiques owned and run by Hungarians and the drunk ex JNA Slovenian guy who terrorised the Serb grandmothers :)) Not to mention the K-Albanian booksellers, newspaper vendors and taxi drivers who earn their crust on the streets of the Serbian capital.

I think some of the Albanian irredentists should take a trip to Belgrade and Novi Sad and see how society with many different ethnic groups and languages live in peace and harmony together.

Hey Ataman stop portraying yourself to be Hungarian when we all know that you are not and keep your ridiculous philosophies to yourself.

Vojovodina will not break away in violence it will be a process; first the decentralization further of Serbia having Vojvodina and Serbia on equal status but in the same federation and then an eventual split.

Vojvodina was already sined away back in the summer of 2000 by Djindic and Kostunica otherwise they would never have gotten the support from the West to defeat Milosevic. That meeting took place in Hungary, you might want to look up on that -- it was the final dissolution of Yugoslavia in a peaceful manner, first was for the full autonomy of Vojvodina to be restored in "Yugoslavia" and then Montenegro to separate and then automatically Kosovo and Vojvodina are independent but of course after in power Kostunica tried to change the format by siging with Montenegro back in 2003 to be a loose state of Serbia and Montenegro so that if they leave Kosovo and Vojvodina would legally become autonomous in Serbia according to international law.

Regardless of the wrangling, Kosova and Vojvodina are both gone, whether Kostunica likes it or not.

haven't you heard of the formation of the Vojvodina passport ???

Mark

Kosovo was obviously offered autonomy as an alternative to independence but perhaps Serbia has learnt that when autonomy is offered independence is sought in consequence, ergo, it is not offering autonomy to the Hungarians. I would have thought that this would be obvious.
I don't think you would be taking such a critical stance if it was your country that was concerned. Especially if Mark Greeen is a pseudonym for an otherwise Albanian name, as is often the case with antagonistic comments on this site.

George if you read the constitution you refer to Kosovo and Vojvodina were part of serbia, and thu8s couldn't have been annexted in 1989.

To be consistent Serbia should offer "functional separation" of Vojvodina from Serbia, whereas the Hungarian Government provides social services to Hungarians and their parallel structures have ties only to Budapest and not Belgrade. If that's good for Serbs in Kosova - only 5% of the population, it should be the absolute minimum for Hungarians in Vojvodina - 30% of Vojvodina's population.

Serbs only ever historically occupied the lower part of Vojvodina. Their numbers rapidly increased after the great migration out of Ottoman controlled Kosovo by Serbs to the former Austro-Hungarian controlled regions of Vojvodina. The fact is that Serbs have for much of the past century colonised Vojvodina at the expense of other nationalities. In under a century Serbs went from being 20% to now 80% of Vojvodina's population.

Demographic records from the last 100 years indicate that the Serbs are the colonists into Vojvodina. The Hungarians deserve autonomy to protect their language and culture.

Wake up the so called "foreign minister" and let him know that the people of Vojvodina want "functional seperation".

The Serbs are the majority in Vojvodina and the majority there does not want autonomy.

The Hungarians are around 15% and are only the majority in a small part of Vojvodina. If they get autonomy or independence of their small sectors of territory then the Hungarians should lose special status in the rest of Vojvodina and Serbia as they would no longer be a part of the country.

But there is no ethnic killing, home burning, church burning, no usurpation of property, no lack of freedom of movement, etc.

They are living well and are not hindered and restricted like the Serbs in Muslim and Croatia controlled territory.

They don't deserve autonomy since they are not the majority and have all the basic rights plus more.

Tito's constitutional changes in 1974 violated Serbia and gave rights to the provinces which eventually led to the problems we see today.

They should not have been given autonomy in the first place as the minorities did get their basic rights and freedom of movement in non war times.

The ethnic Albanians and Bosnian Muslims, etc. don't allow basic human rights and safety in peace time which is why the ethnic Serbs should not be forced to live under them.

Vojvodina was apart of Hungary for 1,000 years and only a part of Yugoslavia since 1920 -- the Hungarians are the native people there, how can you kick them out or tell them to leave -- they've always been there!

This is the same rhetoric of fear I heard during the beginning of the problems with Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Kosova -- and look what happened ???

Freedom and Liberty for all people of Vojovodina

Dear all,

It is a fault of Hungary for the fate of Vojvodina,

Hungary should play some cartoon games to make international community aware that they deserve to govern themsleves. Mickey Mouse games are famous in the balkans, as sometimes they attract a large number of people/countries. This type of MIckey Mouse play starts by establishing:

1.Minister for Vojvodina, in Budapest Office,

2.Organize election in Vojvodina and

3.Burn some border check points.

This is a famous receipt for bringing issue back on the table.

Soon UNSC will get involved, then SRGS will be stationed,...

Vojvodina needs to pay attention, learn from Kosovo and gain independence...ASAP

Peace to all,

Cheers

P.S. No recommendation PLEASE. This apply to ZK UK and other in Serbian camp too.

(nik, 4 June 2008 13:00)

Nick: Best post ever.

Any presumable collaboration with Nazis in WW2 was only and only driven by patriotic feelings- nothing to do with teh ideology. Although the comparison is inappropriate morally, It would be like blaming K-Albanians today why they align with NATO and US? It’s obvious why- they respect out culture.

Ataman: you are hilarious. You don't miss the opportunity to attack Albanians even when they have nothing to do with you- i.e. colonization of Vojvodina- this is the topic, this is the issue stay on that.

Though, thank you for introducing to me the Gen. Giorgio Basta- I was ignoring his existence, although never ignored that Albanians were never in the corner of the European culture- as many other nations were and still are.

So Pastor is asking for the Hungarian Majority municipalites in Vojvodina to have autonomy within the already autonmomous Vojvodina. Sounds like it would be overly complicated and perhaps unworkable in practice.

Serbia must be a great place to live if 250k ethnic Hungarians out of Voivodina's 2 million population prefer living in non-EU Serbia as opposed to the bright lights of the EU Budapest.They all have the rights to Hungarian citizenship right?These Joes must really be appreciative for being allowed to stay by the majority Serbs in Voivodina.Shalom

The entire Croatian-Hungarian and Serb-Hungarian calamity begun at around 1848 when the revolutionary government in Budapest out of ignorance did not take care about problems of South-Slavonic people and Vienna used the opportunity to play the game with the naivity of Josip Jelačić. Jelačić successfully rallied Serbs and Croats against the regime in Budapest and the relation went from good-neutral to rather bad. During the last years or 19th Century the South-Slavonic (and Romanian and Slovak and Czech) "Public Relation Machine" was doing an excellent job with many bright journalists, politicians promoting THEIR cause. At the same time our P.R. machine did suck horribly, nothing was done and the Trianon disaster came when Hungarians were facing a very hostile and biased world - due neglecting the PR job to the "West" and not improving the relations to the "South-East".

After WW-I a good part of Hungary went to the future YU. Vojvodina is a smaller part of the loss of the territory - almost the entire Croatia was part of Hungarian kingdom.

What makes the smaller part of the loss (Vojvodina) so "special" is the massacre of several thousand Serbs and Jews by Hungarian nazis at begin of WW-II and a "counter-massacre" of ethnic Hungarians and Germans by Tito partizans at the end of the war. The relationship between the massacre and counter-massacre is roughly 1:10 (for every Serb or Jew killed, Tito killed 10 ethnic Hungarians or Germans). Of interest is, while the Hungarian Nazis had no gender/age "preference", Tito killed mostly male population (lame excuse, of course).

This issue is investigated now in silence. It looks, like the original idea was born (of course!) in the head of Stalin - very typical for him. This does little excuse to Tito, besides that who participated in Tito's (sorry: Stalin's) killings were from all over of Yugoslavia. Later Tito silently admitted - during a hunt (do these statesman love hunting!), he has many on his conscience. There were cases Serbs saving Hungarians and Germans from Soviets (and also Soviet officers acting with honor and stopping partizans). But the fact remains: partisans were the tool, Tito did not want (yet!) to stain his relationship with Stalin. The killings were ordered in Komintern and of course Tito had to do what he was ordered by Komintern to do. (Komintern = КОМмунистический ИНТЕРНационал).

So much about the "old" history. In more times after Hruschjov went to Belgrade like to Canossa (to excuse before Tito for Stalin's crimes) the situation in Vojvodina changed for better. The relations between Hungary and SFRJ were excellent in all honesty (not a "forced" relationship, stained by COMECON or Warsaw Pact). The Hungarians in Vojvodina made excellent money.

A sample: a beginner salary in Hungary at around 1980 was ca. 3000 Forint at best. A manager of a department of a research institute with PHD degree had at best 8000 - 10000 Forint / month. At that time 30 Forint were $1, so you see the math: in Hungary $300/month, $5000/year at best was the salary of a 50 year old manager with PHD.

1978 we went to Ulcinj to a 10-day vacation. We met many Vojvodina-Hungarians and they told us THEIR numbers. That was "awe and shock" for us. With 1.2 Forint = 1 Dinar in 1978 we heard about villagers making 1mio. "new" Dinars / year, almost TEN times my dad had.

These were THEIR "golden years", I guess. In Ulcinj some girls of our group were busy to... get to marry ASAP over-the-border into Vojvodina into these Dinars. (And their efforts were so funny, half of our group did laugh). Ultimately, Vojvodina did not matter, everything "od Vardara pa do Triglava" of male gender was OK for them... One day some members of our group just disappear: they went to Bar, bought one-way ferry tickets to Bari. For many refugees, SFRJ was the first step to the West: 1978 traveling from Hungary to the West was not a trivial thing. Political pressure did stay for an other decade. We left Hungary illegally 1988. Was no fun!

My comments to the comments:

to #1: probably. Not sure, what pressure is there tough. I know, some Hungarians who are really nuts (I mean here László Toroczkai, just google on him...). Besides, Vojvodina is (again, since January 23 2002) already autonomous. The autonomy was restored on January 23, 2002.

to #2: I would say, more economy. This is what is needed badly. Here Hungary can't help. If Serbia plays right, they can get Hungarian small business in great numbers - because currently it's an endangered species in Hungary.

to #3: again, Vojvodina is autonomous territory. There are few things still missing. It will be perfect only if borders would be abolished. This is what is killing the economy and society. Of course, Hungarians want Serbian refugees from Kosovo to return. Uh-oh. This is disturbing the balance in communities. But there are some problems with refugee return, aren't there?

to #4: Goca, the issue is over, Vojvodina has autonomy since January 23, 2002. I don't understand why everyone says, it does not.

to #5: John, to be honest, I suspect you are as American as some Albanians here. You probably do not speak Hungarian. If you would, you would discover, the picture is very different than what you paint. Vojvodina always was home of significant Hungarian population, still is and always will be. Serbia-hate is not widespread (except Hungarian diaspora overseas) - just the opposite. For many Hungarians who live in Serbia, Hungary itself became too "westernized" (in pejorative sense). The Hungarians in Vojvodina have enough differences from Hungarians in Hungary to prefer living in a slightly different place, some would rather move to BG than to BP. Sadly, a flat in BG is probably twice as expensive as BP and even more sadly, my Dollars are now worth a piece of г-но in both. At ca. 150 Ft or 50 Din it's a catastrophic exchange rate (thankya Dubya!)

That reminds me: don't cheer much about USA "empire is finished". If we sneeze, Hungary and Serbia gets cold and Albania will have a pneumonia. Better stay healthy and cross your fingers, some idiots from Texas will return to Texas, the sooner the better.

to #6: "Everybody has rights and the right to govern themselves !" The series of genocide in Africa is the proof, that right does exist but not everyone is mature to exercise it. I know PROVINCE in Western Balkans which certainly is not mature enough (except it's Serbian minority).

to #7: Yes, this is also my question. For me it's not entirely clear, what really does VMSZ want. Looks like autonomy within autonomy!?! I did read few things and as far as I understand (yes, even for me it's not clear!) the issue they are pressing is a two-stage autonomy where communities with clear Hungarian majority would form some kind of union. What is worse, it seems like VMSZ is hanging on FIDESZ which is a populist Hungarian opposition party ( now much more popular than the MSZP minority government )

Later about that in #15.

to #8: No, Vojvodina and Kosovo had only autonomy. This is incorrect. Besides, Vojvodina is a mini-Jugo itself. An independent Vojvodina would last a nanosecond before Croats, Serbs, Hungarians, Romanians, and few Rom, Albanians, Slovaks begin to quarrel. A perfect place for an other American Neocon Democracy Building Experiment (TM). A real perfect one because many Croatians, Serbs, Hungarians, Slovaks are inter-married, so the True Democracy Building can go into families, not just one street against an other street like in K. Mitrovica.

to #9: mostly yes. However, as "bad" as MSZP in Hungary and DS in Serbia is, currently there is (almost) nothing better out there. Like with the E.U. Pretty bad and evil. But the saddest part is, it's the best thing out there.

to #10: you have two choices: a) convince people to stick together using bayonettes and bullets b) convince people to stick together by economic means. b) makes sense. But people do not like bayonettes and once they feel a bit more free from the hated bayonette they tend to get rid of the structures which make sense. Chinese did focus on economy while keeping the bayonettes close to the body of citizens. In CCCP an SFRJ the economy was neglected; once bayonettes were removed, people begun to fight (and here West did "help" a lot to destroy what makes sense. And oh, these "helpful" wahabbite fighters, thanks for nothing!)

to #11: in the theory, yes, they MAY get Hungarian citizenship after some pain-in-the-rear procedure. This would make sense mostly for taking jobs in other EU countries.... but amazingly, Hungarian flood did not happen, neither Vojvodina-Hungarian attack on citizenship office. Nothing to "appreciate" to be "allowed" to stay in Vojvodina tough. I can say that because I am not from the area. I called SR consulate regarding working permits, long-stay visa etc. and I was told, won't be a problem. So I DO appreciate because SR has no objections that I move there. But the ancestors of these Hungarians lived there for many centuries, they are locals. If you say, they should be thankful not to be cleansed out of the area that is bizarre. They stay there, live with that. Sometimes there will be a slight move from Hungary, sometimes to Hungary. On the other side, there is a tension because Serbian refugees from Kosovo did bring some inbalance. While it's their country as well and they have the right to live in any place, there is an uproar in certain Hungarian communities. I have no problem to celebrate X'mas and Easter twice but let's face it: people in villages are always more conservatve and scared if a large group of newcomers arrives. I am not politician, don't ask me what to do!

to #12: already mentioned. Vojvodina autonomy was restored on January 23, 2002.

to #13: Not "Jonic" but "Jovan". Otherwise pretty much agree. Just wish, V-Hungarians would kick out the idiots like László Toroczkai, to demonstrate, they are with the law and against the hatred. L.T. was kicked out of Serbia the second time. Hope, his ban from Serbia has at least a signature from an ethnic Hungarian judge. That would serve the best. Otherwise I think, Hungary and Serbia are the most free and democratic countries in the world. I can first torch half of Budapest, attack the TV station, ride a T-34 battle tank in the middle of the city and burn a few hundred cars. After having such a great fun (it was on Oct. 23 2006), I can move south, and organize an anti-Serb rally in Subotica on May 11, 2008 (that's during elections, right?). Barely any punishment in both cases.

to #14: how on Earth, Ida, would they get Hungarian schools, Hungarian local judges, Hungarian libraries, Hungarian police without autonomy? Autonomy is precisely a tool for minority to ensure their existence against full assimilation. With catastrophic Hungarian birth rates that is needed.

to #15: I am not sure who is with alliance with whom. "They" are not sure either. One is sure, to a large degree, FIDESZ is the patron of VMSZ and this is a trouble for Pásztor being with Tadic. The natural ally of Tadic would be MSZP, at worst SZDSZ - but by no means a populist-nationalist party like FIDESZ led by a mini-Duce figure (Orbán). Here we are at Hungarian politics matching Serbian. One is a big enough headache. Matchmaking both together is a major headache. IMHO, FIDESZ is duping VMSZ, they don't care less about Vojvodina-Hungarians but they need votes. Since Pásztor quasi-reports to FIDESZ but the same time declares himself an ally of Tadic'.... I think, I do see pigs fly a formation. Or maybe just let take a pragmatic stand. Pásztor seem to be honestly concerned about the economic situation and jobs in Vojvodina. Tadic seem to be honestly concerned about the same. Viktor Orbán seem to be honestly concerned only about Viktor Orbán and Ferenc Gyurcsány does have many answers wrong. Is better to elect "mostly failed but sometimes OK politics" or a "crossover between Benito Mussolini and Stalin"? For Pásztor, I would rather try to get rid of such "Stalinini" patron... the problem is, FIDESZ has the Forint the communities in Vojvodina need now badly.


to #16: let me twist your logic, Peggy. You say "Hungarians were the enemy of Serbia". Why do you need an enemy? The "Neocon"-s need an enemy, because in their belief, America's destiny is to lead the struggle between the good and evil. They NEED that struggle, they need the enemy, otherwise the entire thing what they do does not make sense.

Serbs here are right while complaining about their nation being "collectively punished".
Now you (Peggy) do the same. For wrongdoings of a fascist regime you want to punish the entire nation? I am sure, you know where the cities of Srpski Kovin and Sentandreja are and what is the name of the long street in Budapest between Elisabeth and Freedom bridge and who lived there.
For a good decade, Soviet Union was a bitter enemy of SFRJ. Would you say, Russians were enemy of Serbia?

For how long Hungarians or Serbs settled in Vojvodina is disputed by every scholar. I do not want to go into arguments because we cannot argue about the number of angels which can fit on the top of a needle. I just say: "Agglutinative-speaking and Slavic-speaking people lived in Vojvodina for a long enough time to grant them a status of native population".

While I wrote my longest ever essay, we got #17, #18, #19 and #20.
Hope B92 won't mind if I continue my "attack" on everyone.


#17: Easy answer to you, you do not need (if you are from Kosovo) a visa to visit Vojvodina. Go there, take a look and find the community which has any analogy with Kosovska Mitrovica. Leave the bloodthirsty deities like Aztec Qurtzalcoatl (the Pigeon-Snake-God) with you. No Quetzal in Vojvodina, sorry.

#18: So was Croatia. Don't forget, according László Toroczkai his "Koszovó" or "Rigómezö" was also part of Hungarian Kingdom.
That does not mean, they want to grant people from Rigómezö Hungarian citizenship. They want to make there room for THEIR Great Hungary. Any objections?

#19: Yes. This is true (mostly). Few additions. The colonisation by Serbs did not happen "at expense". It happened because the mercenaries of a certain general Giorgio Basta raped and killed on Délvidék every being who/what was having at least one leg and was not furniture. Later they paid a friendly visit all over Balkans.

Here is the link to Basta:

http://tinyurl.com/4rubtv


Sorry, what is written there is "wiki" and not my fault.

Serbs were invited to come to burned, empty place. They came as far as Szentendre. A nice, late Gothic church full of frescoes is in Ráckeve (Srpski Kovin, near Budapest). Unfortunately photography not allowed unless a permit from a person high enough in the Orthodox Church hierarchy is presented!

#20: People of Vojvodina do not need advice from high priest of Qutzalcoatl-cult. They are mostly agnostic, catholic, orthodox, protestant. With General Basta they had enough Quetzals in the past, thank you. You are of course welcome, just leave that bird-snake

http://tinyurl.com/4n52kz

at home.

Regardless of the wrangling, Kosova and Vojvodina are both gone, whether Kostunica likes it or not.

haven't you heard of the formation of the Vojvodina passport ???
(Freedom, 4 June 2008 17:44)

I'm Serb from Novi Sad(Vojvodina) and i can tell you we are not going anywhere outside Serbia.Level of financial autonomy from central government is the most important thing when we speak about autonomy,it has nothing to do with creation of some quasi state.So,unless you can transport 1.5 million Serbs from Vojvodina to Mars,we are not going anywhere!

#25: Serbia did not expand. Yugoslavia did. There is still debated, what the words "Serb", "Croat", "Bosnian", "Montenegrin" do mean. And that mess called "Macedonia"... 10 people have 20 opinions, who "Macedonians" are, better not to touch that subject. As far as Soviet threat: yes, it was. It had different face and the West never had an adequate reaction. The most recent one (neo-conservative agenda) is one of the most catastrophic, we all suffer from that. There were even Russian and Ukrainian nazi collaborators, by the way.

#26: yes, this is precisely why recognizing UDI was a horrible move. Vojvodina/Délvidék was dropped like a hot cake, the tongue was deeply buried in the rear opening of a village idiot from Texas. And agree with the entire post.

Albanian posters really need to open their eyes, forget that village idiot from Texas and travel few times between BG and BP. It's a very different world out there.

#27: yes. The deepest Serbia-hatred is coming not from Vojvodina-Hungarians (remember: they shot down that F-117 !) but from some dark self-fug ratholes in the lumpen neighborhoods in Hungary (max. 10% of population) or SUV-infested residential areas of Los Angeles/Cleveland/Miami where broken Hungarian is spoken (do you really care about these?). The rest wants to get kids schooled partly in BP, partly in BG (depending on curriculum), driving cars with license plates of the country where taxes are lower, go to Greece or Spain for vacation and have enough Din and Ft in their OTP account.

#28: I think, around 15% or so indeed. The presence is everywhere (street names, business names, you walk and you always hear somebody speaking). So it's strong enough to deserve special attention (without infamous "special cases" no one wants besides Toroczkai). The importance of the circus now is less Vojvodina, more the "tangled web" (tm) of Hungarian domestic politics. It's a nasty world and here VMSZ and Pásztor are just an excuse for FIDESZ. As I told, Mr. mini-duce does not care about Great Hungary, he cares only about Great Viktor Orbán. If in order to achieve his goal he would need to kiss the hand of R. Mladić and declare the war on the "Snake" - he will do it today.

#29: See, these "dark forces" ( = American neo-conservatives ) are saying precisely the same what you do, just name different actors.

#30: Yes, allying with the crazy nazi ideology was used by all nazi collaborators in the hope, it will solve their own country's problems. At that stage I would call it "Nationalism" not "Patriotism". Antonescu or Szálasi were not patriots.

NATO does not respect your culture. *** some *** in the U.S. arw intent to take your culture down and import the usual sub-culture. Come and live in the U.S. for a while to experience. You probably know these links here - pretty funny to speak about "culture"...

My favorite:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANTDkfkoBaI

There are more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8SuCBHqXtQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esbS_vT25GU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ghdwINqirU

These samples are extreme, of course. USA has a lot of intelligent people and I like the country. But I don't like *** some FEW *** politicians and the very low level of education. In that spirit, I am going to vote this November with hope for a change.

Otherwise, Giorgio Basta had a lot to do with Southern Hungary. In Hungarian schools his deeds and the horrors he brought to Hungary are being teached. But his ethnic background is - out of political correctness - not touched. I just recently learned, he was Albanian.

#31: Freedom, you should read Hungarian press and their endless reports about Albanian criminals menacing Hungarian freeways, Albanian prostitution and drug rings in Budapest and such. I had no personal experience on that area, but some rather unpleasant memories we had in Kosovo.

You are right. Of course, I am not Hungarian, not even American. We got the contract from Mr. Pásztor regarding the new Vojvodina passports. There was some mistake during the first print phase, so I got these instead:

http://tinyurl.com/44lvlj

But in the next phase we will correct the mistake and print Vojvodina passports featuring the correct emblem of a Polar Bear from Medvedja.


#32: You will like your new passport with a Polar Bear!

I was born and raised in Vojvodina and let me tell you Hugarians have it better than Serbs in some respects.
You have education from 1st grade through medical school in Hungarian language.Not even America has that for minorities.I remember how Hungarians faired during the NATO agression when they migrated to Hugary and it was not good.Hungarians should seek autonomy from Romania who is EU and leave Srbija alone.This boils my blood that every former fascist enemy of Srbija now wants a piece.The Germans have vowed to keep dealings with Srbija as far away from international law as possible.We are being punished still for our defiance of the new world order I pray that sooner or later we do not end up with just central Srbija and a sliver of RS.What was once Srbijan land has decreased dramatically but I think we would fight for Vojvodnia a bit more than Albanian overrun Kosovo-Metohija.

Freedom, your as nationalistic as they come. Your just one of 5% that wants independence. Vojvodina is Serbia's.

Delije,

Freedom is as Hungarian as you Aztec.
He has nothing to do with Vojvodina.

Any NORMAL discussion about what degree of autonomy or autonomy within autonomy does make sense and no one is 100% right. Discussions about Hungarian domestic problems are not much off since there are thousands of links between Hungarians in Vojvodina and their peers in Hungary or in immigration somewhere else.

The problem is, if unsolicited "friends" of Hungarian cause appear from nowhere (more precisely: from a dark nationalist hole in Southern Serbia). They have zero understanding of Vojvodina or Hungarian domestic issues. They probably never been there and never did see a single Hungarian. In their endless hatred of anything of Slavic origin they try to pretend to be "friends" of Hungarians or sometimes even pretend to be Hungarians.

I am allergic to this and every time I see, I will mention "Quetzalcoatl" and Albanian crime rings in Budapest. You don't like it? That stop pretend to be friends of Hungarians or Vojvodina or poke Serbs, Russians in the eye. No poking and no game playing with Vojvodina = no Quetzalcoatl will be mentioned. Fair enough? Otherwise my best wishes to residents of Kosovo or Albania and crossing my fingers to see the condition of their lives improve.

"Freedom" - since you proven to be 100% wrong about me not being a Hungarian, please take a good look at the passport on my old link on the right as well.

http://tinyurl.com/44lvlj

I am old enough to see from inside, who is a FALSE friend of Albanians. Don't get fooled by some who have the same passport but pretend to be your friends. They have their agenda and Albanians are merely a tool.

There really is no point continuing with this idea. Serbians comprise 67% of the population in Vojvodina so it is not going to happen.

But if the parties that are aligned to the DS keep pushing this idea, you can be sure that they will be out at the next election.

Either way, the pro-Serbian group can benefit from this talk. It really is quite amusing when people call for independence. They obviously have no idea of the situation on the ground.

It wasn't Tito's perogative to slice up Serbia w/ autonomous provinces.
Creating autonomous provinces were seeds that grew into the current mess plaguing Serbia. The misery because of this territorial raping has yet to cease.

Is Mr Pastor in aliance with Mr Tadic if I remember?...

Why not have the Croatians craft a solution? They are the darlings of the west. Surely they have some enlightened ideas as to how to handle minorities.

John wrote:

"Serbia, you are the most geographically unluckiest country in the world.

You are surrounded by former Nazi collaborating countries who still, in this present day and age want a piece of you, any chance they can get... "

John, why put the cart before the horse!

Being favoured by the great powers in the early 20th century Serbia expanded beyond any measure and moderation! That is why it ended with ларге minorities within its borders. Aнd that is one of the reasons (the other being the communst threat) that turned all of Serbias neighbors into nazi colaborators. Keep in mind that they became such long before the horrors of nazism were revealed. That by no means absolves their then leaders from the crimes they have perpetrated! But the fact remains that almost all East Europeans from the Fins, through the Balts, down to the Albanians collaborated with Hitler.
We have no more reasons to blame East European nations than blame the West for not implementing a just revision of the Versaille border system and providing them with adequate protection from the Soviet threat. Had the West done so, may be the likes of Hitler could have never come to power.

"The Serbs are the majority in Vojvodina and the majority there does not want autonomy. "

Ida, sorry ,but you don`t understand those people. Yes, they want autonomy, and it`s not a question of nationality. They are very similar to us (Romanian Banat). Cosmopolitans, Europeans.

My God, Ataman, you deserve a medal. That must be the biggest comment I've seen on this site!

To Freedom/Shefki/Seciri/Sefced/whatever your name is

Your aptitude for twisting facts is amazing. Hungarians make up 30% in Vojvodina? Wikipedia's entry alone will tell you they make up less than 15%....

History is repeating itself and goes in cycles.
Dark forces and their collaborators are on offensive and try to rape international law and will push world to edge and World War III at some point. Will be the Serbian people who will trigger it by saying enough is enough � needs to be seen.
Aftermath of the war will be the same � Russia, Serbia and opposition forces to bullies and rapist will suffer but win again and will get more territories as reward for all sacrifices � just need to be patient again to choose which losers will accept to live with.

I fully agree with Igors view. I have many friends (and also relatives) in Vojvodina. Serbs, hungarians and romanians. I never heard that someone wanted to separate from Serbia. But yes, they all want a higher degree of autonomy. But what`s wrong with that?

--- Hey Igor ---

Nobody is going to transport any Serbs to Mars and Vojvodina is not going to the Moon -- Vojvodina will stay exactly where it is; north of Serbia, south of Hungary and right in the middle of Europe, so don't worry!

There is 65% Serbs in Vojvodina and many have mixed marriages and not to mention thousands of Hungarians that left the country when they got draft papers and now want to come back, but it does not matter any how because there will not be a vote on this. Just like the Assembly after WWI when the majority on that assembly were Serbs and of course they voted for unification with "Yugoslavia" even though the Serbs were 28% of the total population and the Hungarians and Germans alone had a higher population % -- it was designed that way to make it happen!!!

When Kosova went Independent, they did not vote -- the leaders did a Unilateral Declaration of Independence, even though they would have got the vote from the people, its just the painting of a bigger picture to come.

Have you seen the Vojvodina Passport? It has Hungarian, Serb and English writing on it and NO SERB CYRILLIC writing on it and look at the symbols --- not one Serb symbol on it, the Vojvodina and Serbia passports don't look similar in any way -- do you think that's an accident?

Are you going to tell me that you've never heard of Vojvodina asking to be on same status as Serbia in a single federation, and you're not aware of Vojvodina having a seat at the European Assembly ???

I can go on and on if you like on this issue, there is so much to know and by the way Adrian you won't hear too much about this in Vrsac and if you want to hear anyone talk about Separatits in Vojvodina -- Velimir Illic has called so many politicians Separatists up here in Vojvodina and they're not even Hungarian, so I'm not sure what you're watching or hearing.

Vojvodina is in the early pages of a new chapter that will be beneficial and prosperous for all citizens regardless of your ethnic background.

Freedom for all

ben wrote: "Regardless of the wrangling, Kosova and Vojvodina are both gone, whether Kostunica likes it or not. "

Gone where???

Most of the people on Vojvodina want to go to the EU. To end up in a borderless Schengen zone, where the Euro is the only currancy. And that is where Vojvodina will surely end up.
Whether it goes with the rest of Serbia or alone, depends on the wisdom of the Serbian politicians.
If they realize that EU integrationa has no option, and that Kosovo is gone, then there is still plenty of time for Serbia to end up in Europe as a whole (without Kosovo),
Kosovo and Vojvodina have nothing in comon, other than the status they once enjoyed.
Kosovo is underdeveloped, muslim Albaniana, archibalkan, if I may coin such a term. Vojvodina is with a Serbian majority, tolerant and Central European. Belgarde, just across the Sava is practically "Vojvodinized".
The question remains: Will Shumadia too be "Vojvodinized", or the obsession with myths will drag it down.
History shows that nobody takes lessons from history. Yet is the history of the Yugo wars (1991-1999) are an indication, if (Kosovoless!!!)Serbia tries to chenge its persent borders it is likely that they will be eventually changed in its detriment!

Vojvodina isn't going anywhere. They have enough autonomy as it is. Freedom, can you get the Serbs (around 70% of Vojv. pop.) to vote infavour of independence. I think not. Kosovo is a sad never ending story, but Vojvodina, Serbias breadbasket, well I think Belgrade will fight 10x harder to keep that. Vojvodina is fine where it's at. And it will be there for a long time to come. I think the world has had enough with the Balkans, and will probably ignor the Hungarians calls for autonomy or independence. Alot of people here call Serbs nationalistic, now that's the pot calling the kettle black. Do you hear yourself Freedom, KV, Ferenc, Gashi, Sincity, PRN, ...ETC. your just the same as us but on the other side of the fence. VOJVODINA IS SERBIA!!! And that's that. LOL!!!

Is "Freedom" after his own column on B92?

Mr. Pastor is living a dream its like he thinks there is more hungarians than Serbs there like when he said there is Serbs and others living there is he joking are what the Serb population in vojvodina is 75% and the hungarians are not even 200,000 anymore ... he better read more and learn more before he talks because he sounds uneducated.

--- Mr. Ataman ---

The stuff you write is complete non-sense has no real meaning what so ever, and what does this blog have to do with the Albanian mafia in Hungary, and passport links -- I urge you to look at the Vojvodina Passport, because its just the beginning of how things start or maybe you have and you're not too happy about it. Regardless, it applies to everyone in Vojvodina and to their benefit as it was created that way.

Jovan and Delije, I'm not into hate or nationalism and neither should you, there is no need to fight for anything, Vojvodina is home to over 20 established ethnic groups and has similarities to Belgium and Switzerland and most of all has the opportunity to give prosperity to every citizen regardless of your ethnicity.

Mr. Kostunica has dramatically increased the value $$$ of Vojvodina with the NIS deal --- 2 pipelines to go through Vojvodina; one to Hungary and the other to Croatia --- that will bring in huge revenues to a region of only 2 million people and not to mention the strong Agriculture it has.

You should read #35 Blog and if you want more information more than glad to pass it along, because good times are just around the corner. Vojvodina is getting closer and will achieve independence with a Hungarian Autonomous Region.

Freedom to everyone in Vojvodina

Freedom - the Vojvodina passport was a joke:

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2007&mm=09&dd=08&nav_id=43611

This does not make any sense. Vojovodina already has autonomy and Mr Pastor and others should not promote seperatist tendencies in Vojvodina where there are many nationalities that have lived harmoniously together for many years. It is important for other parties and majority to respect diversity at the same time. Anything above this is pure speratism or other aspirations supported perhaps by neighboring Hungary that should not be tolerated or given into

Delije -- nationalism is not something that has anything to do with me, I don't put down any other people, because everybody is the same and should be treated that way --- Vojvodina is Vojvodina's and it belongs to every single citizen in Vojvodina regardless of their ethnic background -- please understand this.

PJD -- the project of the "Vojvodina Passport" was to float the idea and wait and see the reaction --- which is what the goal was not make it legal, I'm sorry I should have been more clear on this -- if you see the picture of it which is what my intention was; you'll see the 2 passports (Vojvodina and Serbia) are not similar and are not meant to be similar. This passport cannot be legal unless Beograd allows and they will never do that -- but the reaction was strong and especially Mr. Kostunica's in private.

The project is the same as when the government wants to introduce a new tax for example; first you float the idea and wait for the reaction and then either say you were just trying something new or just had "consultants analyzing" something. Remember they never said it was a JOKE until after the reaction came out -- do you really think a joke would ever be a joke if it would question something like this -- think about it, look at the reaction of Mr. Illic.

Don't be surprised in the near future if some EU countries say we won't accept the Serb passport but will accept the Vojvodina one ???

The project of the Vojvodina Passport was not meant to be a joke -- just to float the idea first, and I'm sorry I should have been more clear on that.

Are you aware what the possible revenues might be with the oil pipelines coming through Voivodina, its worth looking into as well -- won't be bad for a population of only 2 million?

Breakdown continues see next Vojvodina

-- Hey Ataman --

I guess Delije is Aztec!

Nobody has asked my background but since now its been brought up --- I'm part Hungarian and the other thing you said about me being from some "dark hole in Southern Serbia and hating Slavic people -- I'm part Slavic as well so hating anybody who is Slavic is IMPOSSIBLE, and thanx for your WRONG INFORMATION AGAIN!!!

Me being Albanian is completely wrong, but if there are Albanians out there who wish to support the Hungarians and the other ethnic minorities in Vojvodina -- your support is always welcome as is any other People of any Race to help Vojvodina ahcieve complete Freedom!

The other thing Mr. Ataman, Istvan Pastor had and does not have anything to do with the Vojvodina Passport issue and has not once said anything about Independence, he wants to secure Autonomy to preserve the Hungarian culture and identity -- the same exact thing the Bosnian Serbs have done -- and every Nation has that Right!

Somehow I still doubt you being Hungarian, just on the words you use and the way it comes --- just doesn't sound right.

Did you read about the oil pipeline deal being signed yesterday in Beograd???