One nation, indivisible

"…Slobodan Milosevic…committed heinous deeds against the Kosovo Albanians in the 1990s…"

I would be very interested to learn which "heinous deeds" S.M. committed against Kosovo and Metohija Albanians? The only thing which I know he did was to send police and army to fight UCK. Wouldn't every president of any country do the same in similar circumstances?

ODoherty

Please do not lie to yourself with this notion of crimes commited by all sides in Kosovo. First the numbers do not support you. Second, you are forgeting one thing. Serbia had a state, a regular army, where solders were trained to respect the modern warfare rules, not to touch the civilians and behave in a human, and civilized way, albanians didn't. The guerillas were not a regular army, were not trained solders but rather irregulars. The difference is essential. It is the same situation when an adult teases a teenager and the later turns around in anger and attacks him. The responsibility lies with the adult who should have shown due care and not let the situation detertoriate to the point of conflict.

Serbia had a state and its institutions, which were suppose to behave responsibly, not like a guerrila group, to act in a wise and reconciling way not like an extremist, to engage all sides in a peaceful solution, and to exercise due care for all citizens. Instead we saw serbia act like a gangster state, sending in gangster groups like Arkan Tigers etc, killing, stealing, and terrorising everyone in their path, sending an army to kill and destroy at will as if they were in a foreign soil. To the supprise of all the KLA was di-militarized and became a modern political party staying away from any exstremist views. Yet Serbia today continues to fall a victim of ultra-nationalism, allienating itself from the west. This is a pitty. I am Albanian, and would not like to see Serbia isolated. I want to trade with Serbs, have them enjoy our beaches and exchange our goods and products. I want to visit Belgrade because I have heard its a beatiful city. I truly have no hate for the Serbs, and I personally at least am ready to forgive and ask forgiveness if it helps the peace, and move on.

Serbs leave in denial, with regards to the present situation, status of Kosova and the atrocities they committed in Croatia Bosnia and Kosova. With respect to the international law: If that law says that a state can commit crimes, ethnic cleansing, rule ruthlessly then that Law should be abolished. There is no law in this world that will negate the people the will for freedom and self-determination. Slavery is not the answer. All the people of Kosova are now Free since February 17 when they broke free from the chains of slavery.

Peace and Prosperity to all

Stevan,

Yes there were crimes committed in Kosmet, but on all sides. its just that the Serbs are being demonised and singled out as usual.

The flimsy argument that Serbia lost the moral right to rule its province simply doesnt stand up. I mean the current government in Belgrade which was democratically elected has no lineage or links with the previous Milosevic or Tito regimes.

I can think of quite a few other countries that lost that 'moral' right and many of them not surprisingly are staunch American allies.

Oh the hypocrisy.

"I would be very interested to learn which "heinous deeds" S.M. committed against Kosovo and Metohija Albanians? The only thing which I know he did was to send police and army to fight UCK."

Mister, if you are curious, google these words: "Serbian Crimes" and you will find plenty of answers.

Or take a trip to Pristina!!

Vini get off your high horse, Albanians have been trying to achieve a greater Albanian forever. You want to be the victim, well sorry but the Serbs never supported the Nazis in WWII, but there was the Albanian 21st SS Skanderberg Division, which commited attrocities against Serbs and Jews. No one has clean hands so stop trying to play the victim. I am from the U.S. born in the U.S. I dont know what the administration is doing. The U.S. would never allow a part of the U.S. to leave, we had our civil war. You independence is on paper only.

“As things stand, the number of countries that will recognize an independent Kosovo will plateau at around 40, leaving it unrecognized by a vast majority of the close to 200 members of the United Nations. This includes, of course, the Republic of Serbia.” - Jeremic

Can somebody tell Jeremic that there are currently 192 UN member states. Please help this young guy to do some math. 40 + 200 = 192 !!!!! Where in the world he has done his elementary school?
I am offering my tutoring help. Free this time.

Thanks,
Maks

Dear Vuk,

I admire your "positive" approach to things, however there are two things you should consider when talking Kosova:
1. We believed you guys twice, and both times, you proved dangerous (Rankovic time and Milosevic time). We could no longer trust you.
2. "Deeds" that previous regime did in Kosovo are an attempt to "wipe out" Albanians from their land (where we had been prior to your departure from Karpate Mountains and definitely prior to 1939 Battle). Your government failed to apologize to us and pay damages of war, or at least just apologize and take some responsibility.

Lastly, Belgrade has manipulated enough K-Serbs and they are tired of "surviving". People need real jobs, a future and a foundation to be able to build a decent life. Your governments have failed to provide that for your people in Kosovo, so, it's time that we give it a try this time.

Best of luck to all of you in Serbia and cheers for the newest country.

miri wrote:

Mister, if you are curious, google these words: "Serbian Crimes" and you will find plenty of answers.

Or take a trip to Pristina!!
--

Alternatively, you could google "albanian kosovo crimes" and find out that Albanian officials are at the Hague facing war crimes and how Thaci's network was financed by organised crime.

Also, you could visit the whole of Kosovo to see the crimes committed by the Albanians. I'm sure you'll run into many burnt out churches and properties. You may also notice that over 100,000 Serbs are not at their homes and the remaining few normally have barbed wire around them with troops providing supposed protection.

That should be enough to get you started.

Maks,
It is you that requires math and English lessons. What he said is that there is total of 200 nations and that only 40 will recognize your Fairyland State of Kosmonaut.

"Can somebody tell Jeremic that there are currently 192 UN member states. Please help this young guy to do some math. 40 + 200 = 192 !!!!! Where in the world he has done his elementary school?
I am offering my tutoring help. Free this time.

Thanks,
Maks
(Maks, 27 February 2008 18:57)"

Maks, ...I think you aren´t the one who should offer any math-lessons here... since you simply do not seem to get it.

read the article again. and then, if you still don´t get it, go and look for some math-lessons, instead of offering them.

unbelievable.

To paraphrase White House's spokeperson Tom Casey:
"Just another of his speeches"

Maks wrote:

Can somebody tell Jeremic that there are currently 192 UN member states. Please help this young guy to do some math. 40 + 200 = 192 !!!!!
--

192 is nearly 200, which is what he was saying.

Therefore, 200-40 is about 160 countries that will not recognise Kosovo, which of course is the vast majority!

To be precise there are 193 states when the Vatican is included.

Help is on the way...

"27 February 2008 | 13:46 | FOCUS News Agency
Kiev. If a new conflict flares up in Kosovo, which is not impossible after the declared unilateral independence, Don and Ukraine’s Cossacks are ready to help Serbia in the fight, Cossacks Colonel Vladimir Voronin said, cited by the online edition Fraza"

Vuk,

I have two things to say: One- Stop trying to build your carriere on Kosova. Many tried they failed including milosevic. Second: Kosova was never heart of Serbia otherwise you qould not be living on the legs of Serbia and try to understand that with all the sofistication of Serbia for centuries you could not win Kosova, you could not clean Kosova even when Serbia was killing albanians in Nis, Leskovac and other places around in 1800 and then Rnakovic 1945-56 and then Milosvic 90s please please build your future somewhere else not in Kosova. Do not make your hands with blood of Albanian kids.

Congratualtion for Indepndence of Serbia from Kosovo.

RE: Slobodan Milosevic being scapegoated

"Recognizing Kosovo means saying, in effect, that Serbian democracy must be punished because a tyrant — one who committed heinous deeds against the Kosovo Albanians in the 1990s — was left unpunished.

This comment was unneccessary and untruthful, Slobodan Milosevic has not been convicted of any "heinous" crimes.

The Hague Tribunal cannot even convict him in absentia.

To try to appease the NY Times and the American Public is not playing fair, far from diplomatic and certainly does not help the situation of the Serbian Government.

Mr. Jeremic as an accompished lawyer should read the Hague Tribunal transcripts which are available the public before condemning and accusing the former President of Yugoslavia.

Dear Foreign Minister,

I listened to your telephone converation live to CNN on Sunday the 17th. I read President Tadic's speech to the UNSC on Monday 18th and I read this oped in the NYT.

The arguments your present are pathetically weak and your presentation is abysmal. You will not win by demonstrating greater emotion. This issue is about hard-nosed realpolitik and nothing else. When you wake up and join the same 'race' as everyone else, then you may stand a chance.

I'm beginning to wonder whether you really are trying to keep Kosovo as part of Serbia, or whether you are making a hash of this deliberately.

Kosovo is currently part of Serbia - just! Carry on as you are, and it will be lost on 1 July! You've got a maximum of 4 months to get your act together - although the reality is the decision will be made in April or early May.

"If that law says that a state can commit crimes, ethnic cleansing, rule ruthlessly then that Law should be abolished."


Um....No there isnt a law that says a state can ethnicly cleanse and commit war crimes, thats probably why Milosevic was sent to the Hague to stand trial dont ya think? Oh wait thinking must not be your strong suit, if you say things like that.

No mister is not only about one tyran but we are talking about a lot's of serbian tyrant's starting fro 1300 till 1999 if you like i will write and someone will get tired reading the long list whith there names one.. so for albanians took hundred of years whith of lots of human life to come to this day and making the world to see who really serbia is'''

Had you kept your 'diplomatic' [sic!] mouth shut, dear Minister, when you told State Department officials that your government knew it would have to give up Kosovo, and it was just a question of how much sugar-coating, you (and many of your ilk) sabotaged Serbian unity to the core. Spare us the rhetoric.

Excuse me for my ignorance, but what "heinous deeds" did Milosevic commit? Protecting his people from terrorists/separatists and NATO aggression? Heinous indeed! How long was he in the Hague yet they could not find him guilty of one crime? Finally they let him die so they could cover up their own crimes! What an evil world we live in! Russia is totally right for not extraditing his family to a Western installed government in Serbia. Milosevic was sent to the Hague in violation of Serbia's constitution, yet it is Slobodan who committed "heinous deeds"? A "tyrant" who was democratically elected every time by Serb voters, please someone give me a break, "one break coming up"! Are not these accusations called Slander which is (or should be) illegal? If it were not for him Serbia would already be a colony and occupied fully by NATO not just Kosovo. I am sick of all this demonetization without any proof of misdeeds.

The truth shall prevail in the end, God is watching!!!

How dare he write about the suffering of the Albanian people?
Does he think people in US have the same intelligence as him?
Try to blame Milosevic and hide behind his ghost, is astonishing two-facedness…
Did you dear minister ever opposed the crime of your government in Kosovo?
Is your government ever apologised to the people of Kosovo for the crime committed?
Are you aware that your boss Kostunica refers to 95% of people in Kosovo as “Siptaris”?
You write to the same paper that your government calls “Western fabrication” or blaze their embassy. And somehow you are not ashamed to write again bogus claims that do not make sense.
I as every one else, seen your “peaceful” demonstrations live on TV burning the Albanians and American flags and shouting “Slaughter the Albanians”...
And these were before the burning of the embassy and it happens even today in Mitrovica by the Serbs organized by your government.

"Kosovo is currently part of Serbia - just! Carry on as you are, and it will be lost on 1 July! You've got a maximum of 4 months to get your act together - although the reality is the decision will be made in April or early May."

Will Garvin, which decision are you referring to? The K-Albanians unilaterally declared independence on 17 February. The same week Russia and China sided with Serbia and said they would use their veto in UN Security Council if the issue of recognizing Kosovo would be on the table. So I really do not see which decision you are talking about. Or do you think that Russia and China will have changed their minds by early May?

I wonder for how long Vuk Jeremić might be the Foreign Minister of Serbia? Where has he been the last years and what has he achieved during this time? He has driven a vehicle called Serbia against a wall. Now he explains the whole world, he has seen the wall, put he stands on the point that it was illegaly built and that he would take the same way next time. Great!

Dear Marco in Amsterdam,

So far there has been one declaration of independence by a provincial body under international supervision and recognition by a couple of dozen states breaking current international law, treaties and agreements.

The fat lady has certainly not yet sung her ditty.

That will change on 30 June.

If you have no idea what I'm referring to, then you clearly have precious little idea of what this is all about. I see your only reference point is an illegal act that you presume to now consider acceptable.

Serbs leave in denial, with regards to the present situation, status of Kosova and the atrocities they committed in Croatia Bosnia and Kosova. With respect to the international law: If that law says that a state can commit crimes, ethnic cleansing, rule ruthlessly then that Law should be abolished. There is no law in this world that will negate the people the will for freedom and self-determination. Slavery is not the answer. All the people of Kosova are now Free since February 17 when they broke free from the chains of slavery.

Peace and Prosperity to all

"Can somebody tell Jeremic that there are currently 192 UN member states. Please help this young guy to do some math. 40 + 200 = 192 !!!!! Where in the world he has done his elementary school?
I am offering my tutoring help. Free this time.

Thanks,
Maks
(Maks, 27 February 2008 18:57)"

Maks, ...I think you aren´t the one who should offer any math-lessons here... since you simply do not seem to get it.

read the article again. and then, if you still don´t get it, go and look for some math-lessons, instead of offering them.

unbelievable.

To paraphrase White House's spokeperson Tom Casey:
"Just another of his speeches"

“As things stand, the number of countries that will recognize an independent Kosovo will plateau at around 40, leaving it unrecognized by a vast majority of the close to 200 members of the United Nations. This includes, of course, the Republic of Serbia.” - Jeremic

Can somebody tell Jeremic that there are currently 192 UN member states. Please help this young guy to do some math. 40 + 200 = 192 !!!!! Where in the world he has done his elementary school?
I am offering my tutoring help. Free this time.

Thanks,
Maks

Help is on the way...

"27 February 2008 | 13:46 | FOCUS News Agency
Kiev. If a new conflict flares up in Kosovo, which is not impossible after the declared unilateral independence, Don and Ukraine’s Cossacks are ready to help Serbia in the fight, Cossacks Colonel Vladimir Voronin said, cited by the online edition Fraza"

ODoherty

Please do not lie to yourself with this notion of crimes commited by all sides in Kosovo. First the numbers do not support you. Second, you are forgeting one thing. Serbia had a state, a regular army, where solders were trained to respect the modern warfare rules, not to touch the civilians and behave in a human, and civilized way, albanians didn't. The guerillas were not a regular army, were not trained solders but rather irregulars. The difference is essential. It is the same situation when an adult teases a teenager and the later turns around in anger and attacks him. The responsibility lies with the adult who should have shown due care and not let the situation detertoriate to the point of conflict.

Serbia had a state and its institutions, which were suppose to behave responsibly, not like a guerrila group, to act in a wise and reconciling way not like an extremist, to engage all sides in a peaceful solution, and to exercise due care for all citizens. Instead we saw serbia act like a gangster state, sending in gangster groups like Arkan Tigers etc, killing, stealing, and terrorising everyone in their path, sending an army to kill and destroy at will as if they were in a foreign soil. To the supprise of all the KLA was di-militarized and became a modern political party staying away from any exstremist views. Yet Serbia today continues to fall a victim of ultra-nationalism, allienating itself from the west. This is a pitty. I am Albanian, and would not like to see Serbia isolated. I want to trade with Serbs, have them enjoy our beaches and exchange our goods and products. I want to visit Belgrade because I have heard its a beatiful city. I truly have no hate for the Serbs, and I personally at least am ready to forgive and ask forgiveness if it helps the peace, and move on.

Maks,
It is you that requires math and English lessons. What he said is that there is total of 200 nations and that only 40 will recognize your Fairyland State of Kosmonaut.

"I would be very interested to learn which "heinous deeds" S.M. committed against Kosovo and Metohija Albanians? The only thing which I know he did was to send police and army to fight UCK."

Mister, if you are curious, google these words: "Serbian Crimes" and you will find plenty of answers.

Or take a trip to Pristina!!

Vini get off your high horse, Albanians have been trying to achieve a greater Albanian forever. You want to be the victim, well sorry but the Serbs never supported the Nazis in WWII, but there was the Albanian 21st SS Skanderberg Division, which commited attrocities against Serbs and Jews. No one has clean hands so stop trying to play the victim. I am from the U.S. born in the U.S. I dont know what the administration is doing. The U.S. would never allow a part of the U.S. to leave, we had our civil war. You independence is on paper only.

miri wrote:

Mister, if you are curious, google these words: "Serbian Crimes" and you will find plenty of answers.

Or take a trip to Pristina!!
--

Alternatively, you could google "albanian kosovo crimes" and find out that Albanian officials are at the Hague facing war crimes and how Thaci's network was financed by organised crime.

Also, you could visit the whole of Kosovo to see the crimes committed by the Albanians. I'm sure you'll run into many burnt out churches and properties. You may also notice that over 100,000 Serbs are not at their homes and the remaining few normally have barbed wire around them with troops providing supposed protection.

That should be enough to get you started.

Maks wrote:

Can somebody tell Jeremic that there are currently 192 UN member states. Please help this young guy to do some math. 40 + 200 = 192 !!!!!
--

192 is nearly 200, which is what he was saying.

Therefore, 200-40 is about 160 countries that will not recognise Kosovo, which of course is the vast majority!

To be precise there are 193 states when the Vatican is included.

"…Slobodan Milosevic…committed heinous deeds against the Kosovo Albanians in the 1990s…"

I would be very interested to learn which "heinous deeds" S.M. committed against Kosovo and Metohija Albanians? The only thing which I know he did was to send police and army to fight UCK. Wouldn't every president of any country do the same in similar circumstances?

Stevan,

Yes there were crimes committed in Kosmet, but on all sides. its just that the Serbs are being demonised and singled out as usual.

The flimsy argument that Serbia lost the moral right to rule its province simply doesnt stand up. I mean the current government in Belgrade which was democratically elected has no lineage or links with the previous Milosevic or Tito regimes.

I can think of quite a few other countries that lost that 'moral' right and many of them not surprisingly are staunch American allies.

Oh the hypocrisy.

How dare he write about the suffering of the Albanian people?
Does he think people in US have the same intelligence as him?
Try to blame Milosevic and hide behind his ghost, is astonishing two-facedness…
Did you dear minister ever opposed the crime of your government in Kosovo?
Is your government ever apologised to the people of Kosovo for the crime committed?
Are you aware that your boss Kostunica refers to 95% of people in Kosovo as “Siptaris”?
You write to the same paper that your government calls “Western fabrication” or blaze their embassy. And somehow you are not ashamed to write again bogus claims that do not make sense.
I as every one else, seen your “peaceful” demonstrations live on TV burning the Albanians and American flags and shouting “Slaughter the Albanians”...
And these were before the burning of the embassy and it happens even today in Mitrovica by the Serbs organized by your government.

I wonder for how long Vuk Jeremić might be the Foreign Minister of Serbia? Where has he been the last years and what has he achieved during this time? He has driven a vehicle called Serbia against a wall. Now he explains the whole world, he has seen the wall, put he stands on the point that it was illegaly built and that he would take the same way next time. Great!

RE: Slobodan Milosevic being scapegoated

"Recognizing Kosovo means saying, in effect, that Serbian democracy must be punished because a tyrant — one who committed heinous deeds against the Kosovo Albanians in the 1990s — was left unpunished.

This comment was unneccessary and untruthful, Slobodan Milosevic has not been convicted of any "heinous" crimes.

The Hague Tribunal cannot even convict him in absentia.

To try to appease the NY Times and the American Public is not playing fair, far from diplomatic and certainly does not help the situation of the Serbian Government.

Mr. Jeremic as an accompished lawyer should read the Hague Tribunal transcripts which are available the public before condemning and accusing the former President of Yugoslavia.

No mister is not only about one tyran but we are talking about a lot's of serbian tyrant's starting fro 1300 till 1999 if you like i will write and someone will get tired reading the long list whith there names one.. so for albanians took hundred of years whith of lots of human life to come to this day and making the world to see who really serbia is'''

Dear Vuk,

I admire your "positive" approach to things, however there are two things you should consider when talking Kosova:
1. We believed you guys twice, and both times, you proved dangerous (Rankovic time and Milosevic time). We could no longer trust you.
2. "Deeds" that previous regime did in Kosovo are an attempt to "wipe out" Albanians from their land (where we had been prior to your departure from Karpate Mountains and definitely prior to 1939 Battle). Your government failed to apologize to us and pay damages of war, or at least just apologize and take some responsibility.

Lastly, Belgrade has manipulated enough K-Serbs and they are tired of "surviving". People need real jobs, a future and a foundation to be able to build a decent life. Your governments have failed to provide that for your people in Kosovo, so, it's time that we give it a try this time.

Best of luck to all of you in Serbia and cheers for the newest country.

Vuk,

I have two things to say: One- Stop trying to build your carriere on Kosova. Many tried they failed including milosevic. Second: Kosova was never heart of Serbia otherwise you qould not be living on the legs of Serbia and try to understand that with all the sofistication of Serbia for centuries you could not win Kosova, you could not clean Kosova even when Serbia was killing albanians in Nis, Leskovac and other places around in 1800 and then Rnakovic 1945-56 and then Milosvic 90s please please build your future somewhere else not in Kosova. Do not make your hands with blood of Albanian kids.

Congratualtion for Indepndence of Serbia from Kosovo.

"If that law says that a state can commit crimes, ethnic cleansing, rule ruthlessly then that Law should be abolished."


Um....No there isnt a law that says a state can ethnicly cleanse and commit war crimes, thats probably why Milosevic was sent to the Hague to stand trial dont ya think? Oh wait thinking must not be your strong suit, if you say things like that.

Dear Foreign Minister,

I listened to your telephone converation live to CNN on Sunday the 17th. I read President Tadic's speech to the UNSC on Monday 18th and I read this oped in the NYT.

The arguments your present are pathetically weak and your presentation is abysmal. You will not win by demonstrating greater emotion. This issue is about hard-nosed realpolitik and nothing else. When you wake up and join the same 'race' as everyone else, then you may stand a chance.

I'm beginning to wonder whether you really are trying to keep Kosovo as part of Serbia, or whether you are making a hash of this deliberately.

Kosovo is currently part of Serbia - just! Carry on as you are, and it will be lost on 1 July! You've got a maximum of 4 months to get your act together - although the reality is the decision will be made in April or early May.

Had you kept your 'diplomatic' [sic!] mouth shut, dear Minister, when you told State Department officials that your government knew it would have to give up Kosovo, and it was just a question of how much sugar-coating, you (and many of your ilk) sabotaged Serbian unity to the core. Spare us the rhetoric.

"Kosovo is currently part of Serbia - just! Carry on as you are, and it will be lost on 1 July! You've got a maximum of 4 months to get your act together - although the reality is the decision will be made in April or early May."

Will Garvin, which decision are you referring to? The K-Albanians unilaterally declared independence on 17 February. The same week Russia and China sided with Serbia and said they would use their veto in UN Security Council if the issue of recognizing Kosovo would be on the table. So I really do not see which decision you are talking about. Or do you think that Russia and China will have changed their minds by early May?

Excuse me for my ignorance, but what "heinous deeds" did Milosevic commit? Protecting his people from terrorists/separatists and NATO aggression? Heinous indeed! How long was he in the Hague yet they could not find him guilty of one crime? Finally they let him die so they could cover up their own crimes! What an evil world we live in! Russia is totally right for not extraditing his family to a Western installed government in Serbia. Milosevic was sent to the Hague in violation of Serbia's constitution, yet it is Slobodan who committed "heinous deeds"? A "tyrant" who was democratically elected every time by Serb voters, please someone give me a break, "one break coming up"! Are not these accusations called Slander which is (or should be) illegal? If it were not for him Serbia would already be a colony and occupied fully by NATO not just Kosovo. I am sick of all this demonetization without any proof of misdeeds.

The truth shall prevail in the end, God is watching!!!

Dear Marco in Amsterdam,

So far there has been one declaration of independence by a provincial body under international supervision and recognition by a couple of dozen states breaking current international law, treaties and agreements.

The fat lady has certainly not yet sung her ditty.

That will change on 30 June.

If you have no idea what I'm referring to, then you clearly have precious little idea of what this is all about. I see your only reference point is an illegal act that you presume to now consider acceptable.