Dear Peter Sudyka, it could be better for everybody if we keep using terms and symbols that could be understood by the vast majority of the people, just to avoid misunderstanding. Or not?
Do some research. CEE means Central and Eastern Europe, but is more specifically used to describe ex-communist Central and Eastern European states that are not a part of the CIS (Commonwealth of Independent States), most of which are now in the EU, save for Serbia, Macedonia, Albania, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Croatia and Montenegro.
I am from Poland, been to many countries in Europe, what does that have to do with anything anyway?
Dear Peter Sudyka, what are you saying?
Are you talking about CEE meaning EU?
Where do you come from and, above all, where have you ever been until now?
"Quite often I sense a disingeniuos streak from the EU technocrats/failed politicians who would rather not admit wrongs but love Serbia to drop Kosovo & would equally contain and exclude the ethnic-Albanians and Albania itself from their "club" just as they keep providing excuses for Turkey - do you catch my drift?"
I do catch your drift, unfortunately us peoples of CEE have little say in the matter, considering most voting power lies in the West.
Hi,
You don't have to be Einstein to understande that Kosova will be indenpendence.There is only a few countries, who doesen't support that and the rest of the world will recognize Kosova as a state .
you missed the point made by the fellow Pole who makes a point that the opium trade in Afghanistan is tacitly encouraged since without it US and Western taxpayers money would be required in huge sums to actually resolve matters. I think the same will continue for Kosovo & Metohija and the case is clear in the IEP report many months ago
"The study, commissioned by the German army, says the European Union's security strategy for a future mission in Kosovo is "neither analytically nor conceptually sustainable." The "false belief" in the blessing of independence is pushing "hopes for a leap in prosperity to unrealistic levels," it writes. Instead, any setback threatens to result in "serious unrest if not revolutionary-like upheavals.""
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,471178,00.html
The fact remains that this report was based upon the imposition of a UN decision but all that is being forced now is even worse as it is one out of the UN i.e. continued limbo and at best a frozen conflict with no economic development what so ever - have you seen the EU budget approval for vast sums - all it covers is the 1800 officials salaries.
Talking of conflict lets now debunk the myth that haste is of the essence and an imposition is immediatly required or all hell will break lose! This was said again and again but shown not to be the case in the last 2 years since Kosumi was replaced by Ceku who is now being replaced by Thaci because of ever extending self imposed deadlines. The reality is the vast majority of Serbian Albanians in its province understand economic development is more key to bringing a better future to them and their children so why should the vocal and violent minority have a strangle hold over their future? NATO are their to ensure violence does not occur - surely they can handle the situation and quell violence or is this an admission that they cant ?
The fact remains there is still
No illegal declaration
No illegal recognition
No violence - NATO will act.
Quite often I sense a disingeniuos streak from the EU technocrats/failed politicians who would rather not admit wrongs but love Serbia to drop Kosovo & would equally contain and exclude the ethnic-Albanians and Albania itself from their "club" just as they keep providing excuses for Turkey - do you catch my drift?
The only benefit I see for the EU recognizing Kosovo is for stability in the Balkans, which in turn could lead to new memberships in the future, that is about it. It has nothing to do with what the Albanians want, the fact that they agree with this stance is coincidential, as they are not for the same reasons.
Princip
I know of the opium route from Afghanistan to the West, unfortunately Kosovo is a huge transit area, due to the unresolved status, but the fact of the matter is this involves a few individuals, whereas the EU needs to take into account the welfare of the majority. Perhaps the EU will find a way to combat it, since the Kosovo Police are hopeless, maybe even corrupted by it.
Your proposal and interpretation of the EU's position sends us right back to 1999 when UNMIK established itself in Kosova.
The repetition of that scenario is not acceptable to the Kosovar Albaiansd and any mission from any international organization that wishes to establish iteself in Kosova can do so in an independent Kosova. Anything else means new hostilities and a humiliation for the the EU.
These slovenians are a joke. If they think that the EU nations opposed to independence will accept this, they will learn a humiliating lesson in diplomacy. They were chosen to lead the EU at this time to take the blame for Europe's impotent foreign policies.
so if Kosovo and kosovars cant have any claims because serbs used to be a majority there many centuries ago, does this mean that serbs in vojvodina must not complain if it ever comes to an ethnic clash there? after all, hungarians are leaving vojvodina at an alarming rate, so according to a serb definition of whats happening in kosovo, this is ethnic cleansing. Ironic, thats all.
"The label is worth nothing. Where are they going to get their income from? They would continue to rely on foreign aid."
Independence for Kosovo is off the agenda, envoy reveals
[link]
Oh what a tangled web we weave......
(Princip, UK, 8 January 2008 11:36)
Princip, why I am not surprised with, yet another, twisted story of yours.
You quoted Mr Ischinger but you forgot that we are not blind not to see that he said that on 18th of September, and that, he only said to please Serbs delegation hoping to reach a compromise. Nice try but is this your best shot, your best argument, providing 3 month old news as new?
Anyway, as for Mr Jansa's comments, may I just remind you about Germany's stance back in September where it was all over the papers stating that Germany will not recognize UDI of Kosova?
You were all happy and celebrated. Few days later another anonymous German source said, of course Germany will recognize Kosova, but we are trying to please Serbs until the talks ends..
The same with Jansa's comments, he is saying this because he wants Tadic to win the elections, hence mentioning the fact that "Kostunica is not the only one, there are more moderate politicians" in Serbia, referring to Tadic. This was pure to brainwash Serbian voters so they can elect Tadic as Serbian President.
We all know from the beginning of these talks, that Kosova, was to be supervised by EU, hence not fully Independent. But hell yes, we will be fully independent from Serbia, and are, as we type..
Jansa's comments change nothing, at least not for us Albanians, Ahtisary plan supervised by EU - until Kosova proves to EU that they can protect the rights of Serbs minorities.
As for EU police forces, wait till they get to Kosova and once there your sacred 1244 will be nothing but number of historic dates for us Albanians. 12 44 are the years of Albanians Independence, 12 >1912 (Albania's Independence) and 44 stands for 4+4=08>2008 (Kosova's Independence)
it´s not clear yet, but it could be that they have already handled the stiuation, by excercizing power on behalf of Serbia, and leaving it within the borders of Serbia ( UNSC 1244 remains untouched ).
that would be a foul compromise, since sovereignty should be in the hands of the republic of Serbia.
albanian kids could feel themselves as winners, while they would factually be ruled by the EU on behalf of Serbia.
although I do not like that idea, it could work for a certain period of time.
(after a possible EU-entry, even UNSC 1244 wouldn´t be neccessary since the EU has to protect the borders of it´s member-states )
sooner or later the Albanians would have to face reality, when their fanatism is cooled down.
as I said, that´s not what I find the best solution, but if it should turn out to end like that, then it would mean that all those "negotiations" were really a bogus in order to get time to prepare all for the "take over" ...and it could also be that all of them are involved, the Serbs, the Russians and the US.
but, who knows, maybe that´s only nonsense... and what could be, does not have to be.. :)
Politics is full of deception. The West have their puppet strings nicely attached to Thaci's lips and his inexperience is evident. The simple fact is Thaci and co have absolutely no control over this situation whatsoever. When the West pull the puppet strings, his mouth opens and he says what they want.
When Serbia offered the Albanians the best deal they would get, he said "No". A Serbian deal was the biggest threat to the West so they told the Albanians they would get independence. But Kosovo will never be independent, no matter what the Albanians think, there is not such possibility without the UN. The borders of Serbia will remain the same and neither will the Albanians have international representation. The only two main conditions of a Serbian deal. You will get neither from the West but you will also lose control of your destiny, which the Serbian's offered. Kosovo will be occupied by NATO and they have no intention of leaving for a very long time. The proof is Camp Bondsteel. Check link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Camp_bondsteel_kosovo.jpg
The best possible outcome was for the Serbians and Kosovo Albanians to make a deal on Autonomy and to live separately but side by side. Now the Albanians have new rulers. They will take what they can and leave you the crumbs.
Mike, Peter and others, I would suggest you read this article fully and appreciate the relevance; Trading with the Enemy by David Dastych
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/1250
It gives some insight into why opium production has risen so sharply in Afghanistan and Kosovo is a core trade route of drugs through into Europe and of interest is the final section;
"wrote Arkady Dubnov – “that the United States and the government in Kabul need trafficking to keep the Afghani financial market in shape. In other words, these revenues enable the Afghani Central Bank to maintain the local monetary unit at the proper level. Without them, it would have taken substantial financial injections from Washington.” "
I guess we can start to comprehend the continued limbo for Serbia's province that will continue to exist if the EU step in with dubious legality. The strangled hold of the mafiocracy which will contain the ethnic-Albanians within a economic dead zone since the mafia related economics is the only economy there is and neither the EU nor the US wish to spend any of their taxpayers money in actually resolving matters.
first of all compliment to Princip, he´s absolutely right. that´s just what I thought too, but I do did not post it, since I had not searched for facts underlining that.
but, Princips hyperlinks do that quite well.
to Olf:
one thing you really should accept: you were not occupied, the simplfe fact is, you have never been the ones to be occupied, because that land came back to it´s rightful owners after the ottoman-occupation ( which you have supported - what is by the way the reason, why nobody in the balkans has bigger symphathy with Albanians, just as nobody in the middle-east likes todays Turks )
finally to the Henley-quoting Victor:
let me compliment you on this! Invictus fits like a glove, not only for the reason you gave. and I would never have expected to read one of my favorited poems of the early american fiction here in this forum! I am surprised.
On the contrary Peter-how bad somebody wants something is the main determinant of how hard they are willing to fight for it.On the other hand for objective purposes cost/benefit analysis is the main determinant of whether an action makes sense or not.What are the costs for the EU in recognizing Kosovo independence versus the benefits?
Hehe, once again we think alike. I think it's the most rational reasoning on this matter, I hope that the people of Kosovo and Serbia come to accept it as well, like I said from the beginning, one cannot get it all while the other gets nothing, it simply will not contribute to stability.
luciano
Nobody cares what Albanians or Serbs want, everyone is simply stating their ideas on what is the best solution for the region. The West says this, the East says that, it doesn't make what someone "wants" any more important than the other.
If someone really did care, there would have been a solution back in 1999.
The Albanians don't seem to see that at the end of the day the EU is not allowing their leaders to stand on a podium and announce their historic Independence! Thus Kosovo remains Serbian and quite frankly that's all that the Serbs want, in fact they really don't want to govern what has become a money Pitt ghetto, they would rather the EU support your welfare needs.
Nick and others can spin this however they want but the bottom line is there will be no Independence or self rule for the Albanians, Kosovo will remain Serbian and the EU will govern Kosovo. The Albanians in Kosovo will forever be a people without a real country, much like the Kurds in Turkey.
Albanians can be sure that the new Serbian passports that are coming out in March will not be available to them, the Serbian Government has made this clear.
Kate:
There is something called a reality check which shows that Kosova is no longer part of Serbia. And reality on the ground often transcends ownership deeds, which are on such occasions transformed into just a bunch of worthless papers. And by the way that is what has happened to the Serbo-Russian interpretation of 1244 too. You are stuck in the past way too much Kate.
And as for the EU plan: I think that is the best and most desirable outcome, and had Ahtisaari or the EU not proposed it, we Albanians should no doubt have done so. The Ahtisaari plan was what we aimed for all along and I think there is no need for us to be smug and arrogant by pretending we need no supervision and guidance as we establish our own state, because we do. Getting independence was just phase 1. The real hard work begins now and we are under no illusions that it is gonna be easy.
To those dreamers of an ever changing deadline realise that the Chinese are sending their own police contingent in a YEAR long UN commitment in Serbia's province as highlighted in my comment #7. Thus this makes a farce and mockery that the EU will run the show - reality is it will continue to be under UN auspices and as such continued Serbian Sovereignity.
Regarding the EU there is more and more joining the pro-International law and State sovereignity side beyond
Do the US and a "few" EU states want to be seen as anti-International law and anti-Sovereignity and territorial integrity? Looks like there is a change in the wind from the Czech Parlimentarians ;
Czech Parliament may reject an independent Kosovo
http://www.radio.cz/en/article/99376
- EU is divided and the "few" anti-International law states are becoming isolated and less vocal by the week! I suppose France's Sarkozy is preoccupied with his upcoming nuptials while the UK have been distancing themselves from lame duck US foreign policy dictakt!
Illegal secession will remain illegal and as such will be a continuation of Status quo limbo but with adverse economic effects then as present.
there are already Chinese police officers serving in Kosova under UNMIK. These police officers would be releasing the ones already here since their mandate has come to an end natural thing I recon. So, I say that this might be news for you but not for Kosovars.
Czech parliament MAY is the key word reject an Independent Kosova but hey that is what opposition party says.
There is nothing that will stop people of Kosova to accomplish their dream of living in freedom in their land formerly occupied by Serbia. Will of majority people in Kosova has to be respected!
Full independence was never a reality and that the EU is planning on taking over executive authority in Kosovo is probably the best thing Albanians could have realistically hoped for.
No matter how you slice it, all roads to Kosovo's supposed independence were blocked: UN (Russia/China veto), EU (Cyprus et al block), UDI (domino effect of other statelets following suit). While it is apparent that the status quo in Kosovo can no longer be sustained, while it is also apparent the Albanians refuse to return to authority by Belgrade, it is also apparent no one really wants to give Kosovo full independence if it will come at the expense of regional instability, particularly in Serbia proper.
Therefore, the compromise solution, and the outcome I've been predicting for a while here seems to be coming to fruition: EU mission sets up local institutions and self rule in Kosovo with no legal status of independence or internationally recognized separate sovereignty - at least for the foreseeable future.
Good. It's time we put this ridiculous circus to rest. As long as the EU tells Belgrade it will send a mission without recognizing independence, Serbia will be more likely to sign on the dotted line.
"Serbia can let it be governed by the EU - that does not involve loss of sovereignty.
Neither is it independence.
(Bob, 8 January 2008 14:30) "
If EU is to preside over Kosova, then Kosova will be member of the EU with full voting rights. Which means, Kosova has the right to nix Serbia's membership in EU and nix any of the other Serb supporting nations's proposals. :) Works both ways, doesn't it? BTW, to get into the EU, one has to be a full sovereign independent nation, anyway.
Can you tell me what freedom you are talking about? Do you mean the freedom of over 50% unnemployed people in KiM? You have been free from Serbia since 99 and what has the KiM government done so far? absoultiley NOTHING, except putting money in their pockets. People have no electricity and live like they are in the stone age. Or maybe you mean freedom as in - getting "free" money from Europe while sitting at home and just blaming Serbs for your innabillities?
The Serbs built everything in KiM. What have the albanians contributed? ABSOLUTILEY NOTHING. They just wine and wine and never stop.
WOW Serbian camp, you never cease to amaze me. Mr. Jansa has become very popular suddenly.
OK lets see what has he said form my point of view.
‘Voice of America (VOA) quoted Slovenian Prime Minister Janez Janša as saying that Kosovo's heavy dependence on EU assistance means it cannot be totally independent, and that the 27-nation bloc "wants supervisory powers in return for financial aid and a 2,000-strong assistance mission of legal experts and law enforcement agents."
This means Ahtisaari proposal without SC decision nothing else and it is nothing new
Speaking to journalists in Ljubljana, Janša said Kosovo "will not have total independence," and added that such a European mission, designed to replace UNMIK
"would not be sent to a totally independent country, sovereign country."
We all are aware that Kosova without EU help cannot survive. Supervised Independence means not total Independence. The second comment made has more to do with Serbia and not Kosova if you study it carefully. To clarify what Int. law says for sovereignty of a country
A territory that is supervised by someone else cannot be the territory of the sovereign country. Serbia has no control over Kosova for over 8 years.
Serbian camp accept SAA agreement make happy majority of Serbs in Serbia.
Some of serbian camp here, like Peggy #10 and Co say that: "K-Albanians you will never be independent".
By saying this they dont understand that if we will not be independent, you will not be independent also. What about K-sers? If we are not independent will K-serbs be independent??
So, your independence will also depend on us.
Independence = Freedom
If we have no freedom = you dont have no freedom.
I can clearly see that you dont care about K-serbs.
Any way, by talking and talking you cant prevent independence. We are doing it by facts in the ground.
If serbia wants to keep kosova, and give them same rights, which they will not give, because it will mean that Serbia in less than 25years will be taken over by the best.
(Doni, 8 January 2008 14:52) "
Doni,
you missed the point entirely about the K-Serbs. The K-Serbs do NOT want to be independent. They want more than anything to remain part of Serbia.
"It's not possible after all this" to force the people of Kosovo to live with the Serbs, he concluded, adding that it was "better to start building new relations."- Let me see how you are going to spin this one Princip!
[link]
(laki NY, 8 January 2008 15:35)"
Yes, laki NY, there will be new relations .... with the border at the Ibar. The K-Serbs will only cling on to Belgrade even tighter than ever. You will have de facto partition at the start, eventually solidifying enough to become de jure when the West finally bites off more than it could chew and tires itself trying to untangle from the web it had weaved around itself.
My question still remains though. From a legal point of view, with 1244 still valid, how EU going to be in Kosovo except as part of a "new" UNMIK?
Princip you can twist/stear/spin this article anyway you want it, but the facts is that EU want’s supervisory powers from Kosova government not from Serbia! It’s not asking Serbia for permission nor has any intention to do so
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=01&dd=07&nav_id=46754
In addition the same Janez Jansa stated yesterday
“For Kosovo it's clear what will happen, it's more a question of how to do it," Jansa said.
"It's not possible after all this" to force the people of Kosovo to live with the Serbs, he concluded, adding that it was "better to start building new relations."- Let me see how you are going to spin this one Princip!
I could have sworn that Princip and some others on this site have said that Ahtisari's plan is tossed in trash bin, right. I guess it just jumped on the table again from trash bin.
The above article has nothing to do with Kosova remaining a part of Serbia. The EU wants supervision over an independent Kosova and they are welcome to conduct such supervision.
(Nick KS, 8 January 2008 11:23)
I knew i would be roasted by the Anti Serb Poster so i just pick one to respond to, so the Slovenia rep that was quoted by VOA was mis interpreted or misunderstood. I said before that this would not go through and we are speaking about aid for EU Supervision nothing about independence because Kosovo does not have the infrastructure to support itself and no one wants to realize that. Yes the EU is not UNMIK and you will see what will happen with Trepca. For those who said last year May 06 there would be independence then Dec 10th and Status Quo at this moment. No matter how much you guys say i am crazy stupid or whatever look at the facts Is Kosovo any closure to independence? Nope, will the EU come and supervise Kosovo after UN has failed. Yes when who knows. Will Kosovo be independent this year? No because 1. Kosovo, then Rep of Srbska, vovodina, western romaina to Hungary, north greece, western macedonia, southern Montentgro to Albania, Kurds to Iraq the list goes on 90 percent of the countries mentioned are either members of NATO or on the door step. Supverison by EU in turn all borders of Europe will be done away with EU rules Europe and there will be no more borders Europe will be ran from Brussel so there will be no more need of independence because eveyrone will be part of Europe. So the independence part is done away with serbia is happy and Kosovo is happy.
This attempt to further dissect the still living body of Serbia reminds me of how I imagine William Henley must have felt when, as a young man in England, he developed tuberculosis of the bone in his leg. The doctors amputated the leg just below the knee, but then informed him that the other leg would also have to come off. Deciding he had to draw the line then and there, he called upon all his strength to refuse their decision. The next two years he worked to make himself well, and having become cured, lived an entire normal lifespan! It was during these first two years he wrote his famous ‘Invictus’, the last lines of which are, “No matter how straight the gait, nor how charged with punishments the scroll, I am the master of my fate. I am the captain of my soul.” It seems to me Serbia has been dissected enough, and needs to think about drawing a line. EU politicians are no more likely to know what is best for Serbia than were the doctors in the case of William Henley.
Some of serbian camp here, like Peggy #10 and Co say that: "K-Albanians you will never be independent".
By saying this they dont understand that if we will not be independent, you will not be independent also. What about K-sers? If we are not independent will K-serbs be independent??
So, your independence will also depend on us.
Independence = Freedom
If we have no freedom = you dont have no freedom.
I can clearly see that you dont care about K-serbs.
Any way, by talking and talking you cant prevent independence. We are doing it by facts in the ground.
If serbia wants to keep kosova, and give them same rights, which they will not give, because it will mean that Serbia in less than 25years will be taken over by the best.
Mr. Jansa is not saying anything new. This is Ahtisaari plan in action - i.e. supervised independence. Kosovars are completely aware about this scenario and thus the Ahtisaari Plan and the subsequent EU mission in Kosovo have been widely accepted by Kosovo institutions.
K-Albanians you will never be independent.
At least with Serbia you can enjoy some respect belonging to a country which belongs where ever it wants to belong. A country that can make decisions for itself and a country that has it's own voice.
You have just been told in no uncertain terms that if you are going to live on welfare you will be told what to do and when to do it.
Do you wish to live like respectable people or do you want to live on handouts and say how high when told to jump?
UNMIK already tried to sell the Trepca mining befor the government stopped the process. What makes you think EU would have more power for doin the same thing? What goes for govern the state, EU mission will much more look like a observer while being build with EU standards and help creat it.
So the watering down is happening - EUMIK (under UN auspices) supervised autonomy is clearly what is being spelled out given that 1244 still applies. Clearly the EU are looking for assurance from Serbia and Russia even for this given that they cannot legitameltly send a mission to Serbia's province without UN consent but that is what it really is - EUMIK under UN governance. Moreover, the UN mission will actually continue and will still be in place for the next year at the very least - China is sending 18 police officers aswell - small but extremly symbolic that the EUMIK is actually a continuation of UN administration all the same - just need to clean out the mafiocratic strangle hold - so not quite Status Quo but all the same continuing Serbian sovereignity.
For the dreamers of secession read; Peacekeepers prepare for Kosovo mission
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2008-01/08/content_6376471.htm
"A team of 18 police officers from Sichuan Province will fly to Kosovo next month to take part in a yearlong United Nations peacekeeping mission, officials have said."
Thus the EU 1800 is in all reality just a "part" of a wider UN policing mission - has no-one told Thaci yet or has he suggested another new date - Dec 20008 perhaps ?
It is all a hoax and charade to tone down the radical elements amongst the ethnic Albanians so that violence does not occur. In the meantime Serbia will continue on its path towards EU while strengthing its position economicaly, diplomatically and institutionally (more governmental offices) within its province.
Illegal declarations mean little substance just as Ischinger pointed out last September;
"The label is worth nothing. Where are they going to get their income from? They would continue to rely on foreign aid."
Independence for Kosovo is off the agenda, envoy reveals
http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2973548.ece
The above article has nothing to do with Kosova remaining a part of Serbia. The EU wants supervision over an independent Kosova and they are welcome to conduct such supervision.
Well, well, full independence would be disaster however. I think pro Serbian camp was saying this all along. There will be no independence in its real terms. This basically means that Kosovo is going to end up with no sustainable solution for long time whatsoever and whatever they call it in the future. This again only proves that EU wants Serbs but not Albanians into the EU. So, they will create a signing the SAA with Serbia and perhaps entrance in the near future while keeping Kosovo as so called "not full independence" but still within Serbia's borders away from the EU and kind of isolated . The proposed independence will be still status quo in just another form. The EU obviously has no clear vision over Kosovo and Metohija's future and its final solution. It would be wise for the Albanians to accept the Aland proposal and works themselves alone on their future without Serbia's interference. I think, at this moment that Serbia has made more generous offer than the EU.
This stance does not surprize me, I think that it is actually a good idea from the EU. How to implement it is another story, but nontheless the idea is a good start, a sort of forced compromize which could not be reached at the Troika talks. Kosovo getting full independence just like that was no way of stabilizing the region, Serbia getting Kosovo back was also no way of stabilizing the region, this is the middle ground, completely supervized administration of the province in the meantime to avoid a Russian veto and American recognition, while the internal problems are sorted out. Good move I say.
Final status of the province should only be decided when the situation is stable, some consensus has been reached by the IC and Serbia has been relatively appeased.
Oh boy, stand by for the flood of comments. Since the EU has finally awaken and smelled the coffee, there is not going to be total independence, so either you get aid from the EU and EU will supervise Kosovo along with a 1800 man assistance force consisting of officals and police to enforce laws and regulations. I have said many times that the EU does not come with a price and EU is in it for the money IE Trepca mining and other booty it can extract. There will be some that will say it is better than living under Serbia's thumb but you have to realize that Kosovo will be under the EU's thumb. Still no independence and not able to do as you please. EU will speak for you. Another gesture to appease Russia who will in turn let there partners know there not getting screwed over but just slap and to turn the other cheek. Serbia enjoys memebership in the EU with Kosovo still attached. Game Over. P.S this is not meant to provoke but a very real scenerio out of the possible many.
Whether Kosovo can or cannot be 'sustained' as a Serbian province is not something up for change. It remains a Serbian province, and any agreements must take that into consideration.
"...such a European mission, designed to replace UNMIK, "would not be sent to a totally independent country, sovereign country."
If such a mission is sent to the legally recognised province of a sovereign nation then it must be with Serbia and the UN Security Council's approval.
It is crucial that all procedures are processed through the proper recognised legal channels.
This is not just about Kosovo. This is about the preservation of international law and security. This is everyone's business.
No amtter which way you turn it, Kosova will never be part of Serbia ever again. I don't care if you call it Supervised Independence/Independence or what have you. The bottom line Serbian boot (Military and Police +Politics) will never walk in Kosova again.
Whether Kosovo can or cannot be 'sustained' as a Serbian province is not something up for change. It remains a Serbian province, and any agreements must take that into consideration.
"...such a European mission, designed to replace UNMIK, "would not be sent to a totally independent country, sovereign country."
If such a mission is sent to the legally recognised province of a sovereign nation then it must be with Serbia and the UN Security Council's approval.
It is crucial that all procedures are processed through the proper recognised legal channels.
This is not just about Kosovo. This is about the preservation of international law and security. This is everyone's business.
This attempt to further dissect the still living body of Serbia reminds me of how I imagine William Henley must have felt when, as a young man in England, he developed tuberculosis of the bone in his leg. The doctors amputated the leg just below the knee, but then informed him that the other leg would also have to come off. Deciding he had to draw the line then and there, he called upon all his strength to refuse their decision. The next two years he worked to make himself well, and having become cured, lived an entire normal lifespan! It was during these first two years he wrote his famous ‘Invictus’, the last lines of which are, “No matter how straight the gait, nor how charged with punishments the scroll, I am the master of my fate. I am the captain of my soul.” It seems to me Serbia has been dissected enough, and needs to think about drawing a line. EU politicians are no more likely to know what is best for Serbia than were the doctors in the case of William Henley.
K-Albanians you will never be independent.
At least with Serbia you can enjoy some respect belonging to a country which belongs where ever it wants to belong. A country that can make decisions for itself and a country that has it's own voice.
You have just been told in no uncertain terms that if you are going to live on welfare you will be told what to do and when to do it.
Do you wish to live like respectable people or do you want to live on handouts and say how high when told to jump?
Oh boy, stand by for the flood of comments. Since the EU has finally awaken and smelled the coffee, there is not going to be total independence, so either you get aid from the EU and EU will supervise Kosovo along with a 1800 man assistance force consisting of officals and police to enforce laws and regulations. I have said many times that the EU does not come with a price and EU is in it for the money IE Trepca mining and other booty it can extract. There will be some that will say it is better than living under Serbia's thumb but you have to realize that Kosovo will be under the EU's thumb. Still no independence and not able to do as you please. EU will speak for you. Another gesture to appease Russia who will in turn let there partners know there not getting screwed over but just slap and to turn the other cheek. Serbia enjoys memebership in the EU with Kosovo still attached. Game Over. P.S this is not meant to provoke but a very real scenerio out of the possible many.
Well, well, full independence would be disaster however. I think pro Serbian camp was saying this all along. There will be no independence in its real terms. This basically means that Kosovo is going to end up with no sustainable solution for long time whatsoever and whatever they call it in the future. This again only proves that EU wants Serbs but not Albanians into the EU. So, they will create a signing the SAA with Serbia and perhaps entrance in the near future while keeping Kosovo as so called "not full independence" but still within Serbia's borders away from the EU and kind of isolated . The proposed independence will be still status quo in just another form. The EU obviously has no clear vision over Kosovo and Metohija's future and its final solution. It would be wise for the Albanians to accept the Aland proposal and works themselves alone on their future without Serbia's interference. I think, at this moment that Serbia has made more generous offer than the EU.
So the watering down is happening - EUMIK (under UN auspices) supervised autonomy is clearly what is being spelled out given that 1244 still applies. Clearly the EU are looking for assurance from Serbia and Russia even for this given that they cannot legitameltly send a mission to Serbia's province without UN consent but that is what it really is - EUMIK under UN governance. Moreover, the UN mission will actually continue and will still be in place for the next year at the very least - China is sending 18 police officers aswell - small but extremly symbolic that the EUMIK is actually a continuation of UN administration all the same - just need to clean out the mafiocratic strangle hold - so not quite Status Quo but all the same continuing Serbian sovereignity.
For the dreamers of secession read; Peacekeepers prepare for Kosovo mission
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2008-01/08/content_6376471.htm
"A team of 18 police officers from Sichuan Province will fly to Kosovo next month to take part in a yearlong United Nations peacekeeping mission, officials have said."
Thus the EU 1800 is in all reality just a "part" of a wider UN policing mission - has no-one told Thaci yet or has he suggested another new date - Dec 20008 perhaps ?
It is all a hoax and charade to tone down the radical elements amongst the ethnic Albanians so that violence does not occur. In the meantime Serbia will continue on its path towards EU while strengthing its position economicaly, diplomatically and institutionally (more governmental offices) within its province.
Illegal declarations mean little substance just as Ischinger pointed out last September;
"The label is worth nothing. Where are they going to get their income from? They would continue to rely on foreign aid."
Independence for Kosovo is off the agenda, envoy reveals
http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2973548.ece
Full independence was never a reality and that the EU is planning on taking over executive authority in Kosovo is probably the best thing Albanians could have realistically hoped for.
No matter how you slice it, all roads to Kosovo's supposed independence were blocked: UN (Russia/China veto), EU (Cyprus et al block), UDI (domino effect of other statelets following suit). While it is apparent that the status quo in Kosovo can no longer be sustained, while it is also apparent the Albanians refuse to return to authority by Belgrade, it is also apparent no one really wants to give Kosovo full independence if it will come at the expense of regional instability, particularly in Serbia proper.
Therefore, the compromise solution, and the outcome I've been predicting for a while here seems to be coming to fruition: EU mission sets up local institutions and self rule in Kosovo with no legal status of independence or internationally recognized separate sovereignty - at least for the foreseeable future.
Good. It's time we put this ridiculous circus to rest. As long as the EU tells Belgrade it will send a mission without recognizing independence, Serbia will be more likely to sign on the dotted line.
No amtter which way you turn it, Kosova will never be part of Serbia ever again. I don't care if you call it Supervised Independence/Independence or what have you. The bottom line Serbian boot (Military and Police +Politics) will never walk in Kosova again.
Some of serbian camp here, like Peggy #10 and Co say that: "K-Albanians you will never be independent".
By saying this they dont understand that if we will not be independent, you will not be independent also. What about K-sers? If we are not independent will K-serbs be independent??
So, your independence will also depend on us.
Independence = Freedom
If we have no freedom = you dont have no freedom.
I can clearly see that you dont care about K-serbs.
Any way, by talking and talking you cant prevent independence. We are doing it by facts in the ground.
If serbia wants to keep kosova, and give them same rights, which they will not give, because it will mean that Serbia in less than 25years will be taken over by the best.
(Doni, 8 January 2008 14:52) "
Doni,
you missed the point entirely about the K-Serbs. The K-Serbs do NOT want to be independent. They want more than anything to remain part of Serbia.
To those dreamers of an ever changing deadline realise that the Chinese are sending their own police contingent in a YEAR long UN commitment in Serbia's province as highlighted in my comment #7. Thus this makes a farce and mockery that the EU will run the show - reality is it will continue to be under UN auspices and as such continued Serbian Sovereignity.
Regarding the EU there is more and more joining the pro-International law and State sovereignity side beyond
Do the US and a "few" EU states want to be seen as anti-International law and anti-Sovereignity and territorial integrity? Looks like there is a change in the wind from the Czech Parlimentarians ;
Czech Parliament may reject an independent Kosovo
http://www.radio.cz/en/article/99376
- EU is divided and the "few" anti-International law states are becoming isolated and less vocal by the week! I suppose France's Sarkozy is preoccupied with his upcoming nuptials while the UK have been distancing themselves from lame duck US foreign policy dictakt!
Illegal secession will remain illegal and as such will be a continuation of Status quo limbo but with adverse economic effects then as present.
The Albanians don't seem to see that at the end of the day the EU is not allowing their leaders to stand on a podium and announce their historic Independence! Thus Kosovo remains Serbian and quite frankly that's all that the Serbs want, in fact they really don't want to govern what has become a money Pitt ghetto, they would rather the EU support your welfare needs.
Nick and others can spin this however they want but the bottom line is there will be no Independence or self rule for the Albanians, Kosovo will remain Serbian and the EU will govern Kosovo. The Albanians in Kosovo will forever be a people without a real country, much like the Kurds in Turkey.
Albanians can be sure that the new Serbian passports that are coming out in March will not be available to them, the Serbian Government has made this clear.
Can you tell me what freedom you are talking about? Do you mean the freedom of over 50% unnemployed people in KiM? You have been free from Serbia since 99 and what has the KiM government done so far? absoultiley NOTHING, except putting money in their pockets. People have no electricity and live like they are in the stone age. Or maybe you mean freedom as in - getting "free" money from Europe while sitting at home and just blaming Serbs for your innabillities?
The Serbs built everything in KiM. What have the albanians contributed? ABSOLUTILEY NOTHING. They just wine and wine and never stop.
"It's not possible after all this" to force the people of Kosovo to live with the Serbs, he concluded, adding that it was "better to start building new relations."- Let me see how you are going to spin this one Princip!
[link]
(laki NY, 8 January 2008 15:35)"
Yes, laki NY, there will be new relations .... with the border at the Ibar. The K-Serbs will only cling on to Belgrade even tighter than ever. You will have de facto partition at the start, eventually solidifying enough to become de jure when the West finally bites off more than it could chew and tires itself trying to untangle from the web it had weaved around itself.
My question still remains though. From a legal point of view, with 1244 still valid, how EU going to be in Kosovo except as part of a "new" UNMIK?
first of all compliment to Princip, he´s absolutely right. that´s just what I thought too, but I do did not post it, since I had not searched for facts underlining that.
but, Princips hyperlinks do that quite well.
to Olf:
one thing you really should accept: you were not occupied, the simplfe fact is, you have never been the ones to be occupied, because that land came back to it´s rightful owners after the ottoman-occupation ( which you have supported - what is by the way the reason, why nobody in the balkans has bigger symphathy with Albanians, just as nobody in the middle-east likes todays Turks )
finally to the Henley-quoting Victor:
let me compliment you on this! Invictus fits like a glove, not only for the reason you gave. and I would never have expected to read one of my favorited poems of the early american fiction here in this forum! I am surprised.
This stance does not surprize me, I think that it is actually a good idea from the EU. How to implement it is another story, but nontheless the idea is a good start, a sort of forced compromize which could not be reached at the Troika talks. Kosovo getting full independence just like that was no way of stabilizing the region, Serbia getting Kosovo back was also no way of stabilizing the region, this is the middle ground, completely supervized administration of the province in the meantime to avoid a Russian veto and American recognition, while the internal problems are sorted out. Good move I say.
Final status of the province should only be decided when the situation is stable, some consensus has been reached by the IC and Serbia has been relatively appeased.
The above article has nothing to do with Kosova remaining a part of Serbia. The EU wants supervision over an independent Kosova and they are welcome to conduct such supervision.
Mr. Jansa is not saying anything new. This is Ahtisaari plan in action - i.e. supervised independence. Kosovars are completely aware about this scenario and thus the Ahtisaari Plan and the subsequent EU mission in Kosovo have been widely accepted by Kosovo institutions.
Mike, Peter and others, I would suggest you read this article fully and appreciate the relevance; Trading with the Enemy by David Dastych
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/1250
It gives some insight into why opium production has risen so sharply in Afghanistan and Kosovo is a core trade route of drugs through into Europe and of interest is the final section;
"wrote Arkady Dubnov – “that the United States and the government in Kabul need trafficking to keep the Afghani financial market in shape. In other words, these revenues enable the Afghani Central Bank to maintain the local monetary unit at the proper level. Without them, it would have taken substantial financial injections from Washington.” "
I guess we can start to comprehend the continued limbo for Serbia's province that will continue to exist if the EU step in with dubious legality. The strangled hold of the mafiocracy which will contain the ethnic-Albanians within a economic dead zone since the mafia related economics is the only economy there is and neither the EU nor the US wish to spend any of their taxpayers money in actually resolving matters.
Politics is full of deception. The West have their puppet strings nicely attached to Thaci's lips and his inexperience is evident. The simple fact is Thaci and co have absolutely no control over this situation whatsoever. When the West pull the puppet strings, his mouth opens and he says what they want.
When Serbia offered the Albanians the best deal they would get, he said "No". A Serbian deal was the biggest threat to the West so they told the Albanians they would get independence. But Kosovo will never be independent, no matter what the Albanians think, there is not such possibility without the UN. The borders of Serbia will remain the same and neither will the Albanians have international representation. The only two main conditions of a Serbian deal. You will get neither from the West but you will also lose control of your destiny, which the Serbian's offered. Kosovo will be occupied by NATO and they have no intention of leaving for a very long time. The proof is Camp Bondsteel. Check link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Camp_bondsteel_kosovo.jpg
The best possible outcome was for the Serbians and Kosovo Albanians to make a deal on Autonomy and to live separately but side by side. Now the Albanians have new rulers. They will take what they can and leave you the crumbs.
On the contrary Peter-how bad somebody wants something is the main determinant of how hard they are willing to fight for it.On the other hand for objective purposes cost/benefit analysis is the main determinant of whether an action makes sense or not.What are the costs for the EU in recognizing Kosovo independence versus the benefits?
UNMIK already tried to sell the Trepca mining befor the government stopped the process. What makes you think EU would have more power for doin the same thing? What goes for govern the state, EU mission will much more look like a observer while being build with EU standards and help creat it.
I could have sworn that Princip and some others on this site have said that Ahtisari's plan is tossed in trash bin, right. I guess it just jumped on the table again from trash bin.
you missed the point made by the fellow Pole who makes a point that the opium trade in Afghanistan is tacitly encouraged since without it US and Western taxpayers money would be required in huge sums to actually resolve matters. I think the same will continue for Kosovo & Metohija and the case is clear in the IEP report many months ago
"The study, commissioned by the German army, says the European Union's security strategy for a future mission in Kosovo is "neither analytically nor conceptually sustainable." The "false belief" in the blessing of independence is pushing "hopes for a leap in prosperity to unrealistic levels," it writes. Instead, any setback threatens to result in "serious unrest if not revolutionary-like upheavals.""
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,471178,00.html
The fact remains that this report was based upon the imposition of a UN decision but all that is being forced now is even worse as it is one out of the UN i.e. continued limbo and at best a frozen conflict with no economic development what so ever - have you seen the EU budget approval for vast sums - all it covers is the 1800 officials salaries.
Talking of conflict lets now debunk the myth that haste is of the essence and an imposition is immediatly required or all hell will break lose! This was said again and again but shown not to be the case in the last 2 years since Kosumi was replaced by Ceku who is now being replaced by Thaci because of ever extending self imposed deadlines. The reality is the vast majority of Serbian Albanians in its province understand economic development is more key to bringing a better future to them and their children so why should the vocal and violent minority have a strangle hold over their future? NATO are their to ensure violence does not occur - surely they can handle the situation and quell violence or is this an admission that they cant ?
The fact remains there is still
No illegal declaration
No illegal recognition
No violence - NATO will act.
Quite often I sense a disingeniuos streak from the EU technocrats/failed politicians who would rather not admit wrongs but love Serbia to drop Kosovo & would equally contain and exclude the ethnic-Albanians and Albania itself from their "club" just as they keep providing excuses for Turkey - do you catch my drift?
Some of serbian camp here, like Peggy #10 and Co say that: "K-Albanians you will never be independent".
By saying this they dont understand that if we will not be independent, you will not be independent also. What about K-sers? If we are not independent will K-serbs be independent??
So, your independence will also depend on us.
Independence = Freedom
If we have no freedom = you dont have no freedom.
I can clearly see that you dont care about K-serbs.
Any way, by talking and talking you cant prevent independence. We are doing it by facts in the ground.
If serbia wants to keep kosova, and give them same rights, which they will not give, because it will mean that Serbia in less than 25years will be taken over by the best.
"Serbia can let it be governed by the EU - that does not involve loss of sovereignty.
Neither is it independence.
(Bob, 8 January 2008 14:30) "
If EU is to preside over Kosova, then Kosova will be member of the EU with full voting rights. Which means, Kosova has the right to nix Serbia's membership in EU and nix any of the other Serb supporting nations's proposals. :) Works both ways, doesn't it? BTW, to get into the EU, one has to be a full sovereign independent nation, anyway.
it´s not clear yet, but it could be that they have already handled the stiuation, by excercizing power on behalf of Serbia, and leaving it within the borders of Serbia ( UNSC 1244 remains untouched ).
that would be a foul compromise, since sovereignty should be in the hands of the republic of Serbia.
albanian kids could feel themselves as winners, while they would factually be ruled by the EU on behalf of Serbia.
although I do not like that idea, it could work for a certain period of time.
(after a possible EU-entry, even UNSC 1244 wouldn´t be neccessary since the EU has to protect the borders of it´s member-states )
sooner or later the Albanians would have to face reality, when their fanatism is cooled down.
as I said, that´s not what I find the best solution, but if it should turn out to end like that, then it would mean that all those "negotiations" were really a bogus in order to get time to prepare all for the "take over" ...and it could also be that all of them are involved, the Serbs, the Russians and the US.
but, who knows, maybe that´s only nonsense... and what could be, does not have to be.. :)
These slovenians are a joke. If they think that the EU nations opposed to independence will accept this, they will learn a humiliating lesson in diplomacy. They were chosen to lead the EU at this time to take the blame for Europe's impotent foreign policies.
The above article has nothing to do with Kosova remaining a part of Serbia. The EU wants supervision over an independent Kosova and they are welcome to conduct such supervision.
(Nick KS, 8 January 2008 11:23)
I knew i would be roasted by the Anti Serb Poster so i just pick one to respond to, so the Slovenia rep that was quoted by VOA was mis interpreted or misunderstood. I said before that this would not go through and we are speaking about aid for EU Supervision nothing about independence because Kosovo does not have the infrastructure to support itself and no one wants to realize that. Yes the EU is not UNMIK and you will see what will happen with Trepca. For those who said last year May 06 there would be independence then Dec 10th and Status Quo at this moment. No matter how much you guys say i am crazy stupid or whatever look at the facts Is Kosovo any closure to independence? Nope, will the EU come and supervise Kosovo after UN has failed. Yes when who knows. Will Kosovo be independent this year? No because 1. Kosovo, then Rep of Srbska, vovodina, western romaina to Hungary, north greece, western macedonia, southern Montentgro to Albania, Kurds to Iraq the list goes on 90 percent of the countries mentioned are either members of NATO or on the door step. Supverison by EU in turn all borders of Europe will be done away with EU rules Europe and there will be no more borders Europe will be ran from Brussel so there will be no more need of independence because eveyrone will be part of Europe. So the independence part is done away with serbia is happy and Kosovo is happy.
WOW Serbian camp, you never cease to amaze me. Mr. Jansa has become very popular suddenly.
OK lets see what has he said form my point of view.
‘Voice of America (VOA) quoted Slovenian Prime Minister Janez Janša as saying that Kosovo's heavy dependence on EU assistance means it cannot be totally independent, and that the 27-nation bloc "wants supervisory powers in return for financial aid and a 2,000-strong assistance mission of legal experts and law enforcement agents."
This means Ahtisaari proposal without SC decision nothing else and it is nothing new
Speaking to journalists in Ljubljana, Janša said Kosovo "will not have total independence," and added that such a European mission, designed to replace UNMIK
"would not be sent to a totally independent country, sovereign country."
We all are aware that Kosova without EU help cannot survive. Supervised Independence means not total Independence. The second comment made has more to do with Serbia and not Kosova if you study it carefully. To clarify what Int. law says for sovereignty of a country
A territory that is supervised by someone else cannot be the territory of the sovereign country. Serbia has no control over Kosova for over 8 years.
Serbian camp accept SAA agreement make happy majority of Serbs in Serbia.
Kate:
There is something called a reality check which shows that Kosova is no longer part of Serbia. And reality on the ground often transcends ownership deeds, which are on such occasions transformed into just a bunch of worthless papers. And by the way that is what has happened to the Serbo-Russian interpretation of 1244 too. You are stuck in the past way too much Kate.
And as for the EU plan: I think that is the best and most desirable outcome, and had Ahtisaari or the EU not proposed it, we Albanians should no doubt have done so. The Ahtisaari plan was what we aimed for all along and I think there is no need for us to be smug and arrogant by pretending we need no supervision and guidance as we establish our own state, because we do. Getting independence was just phase 1. The real hard work begins now and we are under no illusions that it is gonna be easy.
there are already Chinese police officers serving in Kosova under UNMIK. These police officers would be releasing the ones already here since their mandate has come to an end natural thing I recon. So, I say that this might be news for you but not for Kosovars.
Czech parliament MAY is the key word reject an Independent Kosova but hey that is what opposition party says.
There is nothing that will stop people of Kosova to accomplish their dream of living in freedom in their land formerly occupied by Serbia. Will of majority people in Kosova has to be respected!
Hehe, once again we think alike. I think it's the most rational reasoning on this matter, I hope that the people of Kosovo and Serbia come to accept it as well, like I said from the beginning, one cannot get it all while the other gets nothing, it simply will not contribute to stability.
luciano
Nobody cares what Albanians or Serbs want, everyone is simply stating their ideas on what is the best solution for the region. The West says this, the East says that, it doesn't make what someone "wants" any more important than the other.
If someone really did care, there would have been a solution back in 1999.
"The label is worth nothing. Where are they going to get their income from? They would continue to rely on foreign aid."
Independence for Kosovo is off the agenda, envoy reveals
[link]
Oh what a tangled web we weave......
(Princip, UK, 8 January 2008 11:36)
Princip, why I am not surprised with, yet another, twisted story of yours.
You quoted Mr Ischinger but you forgot that we are not blind not to see that he said that on 18th of September, and that, he only said to please Serbs delegation hoping to reach a compromise. Nice try but is this your best shot, your best argument, providing 3 month old news as new?
Anyway, as for Mr Jansa's comments, may I just remind you about Germany's stance back in September where it was all over the papers stating that Germany will not recognize UDI of Kosova?
You were all happy and celebrated. Few days later another anonymous German source said, of course Germany will recognize Kosova, but we are trying to please Serbs until the talks ends..
The same with Jansa's comments, he is saying this because he wants Tadic to win the elections, hence mentioning the fact that "Kostunica is not the only one, there are more moderate politicians" in Serbia, referring to Tadic. This was pure to brainwash Serbian voters so they can elect Tadic as Serbian President.
We all know from the beginning of these talks, that Kosova, was to be supervised by EU, hence not fully Independent. But hell yes, we will be fully independent from Serbia, and are, as we type..
Jansa's comments change nothing, at least not for us Albanians, Ahtisary plan supervised by EU - until Kosova proves to EU that they can protect the rights of Serbs minorities.
As for EU police forces, wait till they get to Kosova and once there your sacred 1244 will be nothing but number of historic dates for us Albanians. 12 44 are the years of Albanians Independence, 12 >1912 (Albania's Independence) and 44 stands for 4+4=08>2008 (Kosova's Independence)
Your proposal and interpretation of the EU's position sends us right back to 1999 when UNMIK established itself in Kosova.
The repetition of that scenario is not acceptable to the Kosovar Albaiansd and any mission from any international organization that wishes to establish iteself in Kosova can do so in an independent Kosova. Anything else means new hostilities and a humiliation for the the EU.
"Quite often I sense a disingeniuos streak from the EU technocrats/failed politicians who would rather not admit wrongs but love Serbia to drop Kosovo & would equally contain and exclude the ethnic-Albanians and Albania itself from their "club" just as they keep providing excuses for Turkey - do you catch my drift?"
I do catch your drift, unfortunately us peoples of CEE have little say in the matter, considering most voting power lies in the West.
Princip you can twist/stear/spin this article anyway you want it, but the facts is that EU want’s supervisory powers from Kosova government not from Serbia! It’s not asking Serbia for permission nor has any intention to do so
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=01&dd=07&nav_id=46754
In addition the same Janez Jansa stated yesterday
“For Kosovo it's clear what will happen, it's more a question of how to do it," Jansa said.
"It's not possible after all this" to force the people of Kosovo to live with the Serbs, he concluded, adding that it was "better to start building new relations."- Let me see how you are going to spin this one Princip!
so if Kosovo and kosovars cant have any claims because serbs used to be a majority there many centuries ago, does this mean that serbs in vojvodina must not complain if it ever comes to an ethnic clash there? after all, hungarians are leaving vojvodina at an alarming rate, so according to a serb definition of whats happening in kosovo, this is ethnic cleansing. Ironic, thats all.
The only benefit I see for the EU recognizing Kosovo is for stability in the Balkans, which in turn could lead to new memberships in the future, that is about it. It has nothing to do with what the Albanians want, the fact that they agree with this stance is coincidential, as they are not for the same reasons.
Princip
I know of the opium route from Afghanistan to the West, unfortunately Kosovo is a huge transit area, due to the unresolved status, but the fact of the matter is this involves a few individuals, whereas the EU needs to take into account the welfare of the majority. Perhaps the EU will find a way to combat it, since the Kosovo Police are hopeless, maybe even corrupted by it.
Hi,
You don't have to be Einstein to understande that Kosova will be indenpendence.There is only a few countries, who doesen't support that and the rest of the world will recognize Kosova as a state .
Dear Peter Sudyka, what are you saying?
Are you talking about CEE meaning EU?
Where do you come from and, above all, where have you ever been until now?
Do some research. CEE means Central and Eastern Europe, but is more specifically used to describe ex-communist Central and Eastern European states that are not a part of the CIS (Commonwealth of Independent States), most of which are now in the EU, save for Serbia, Macedonia, Albania, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Croatia and Montenegro.
I am from Poland, been to many countries in Europe, what does that have to do with anything anyway?
Dear Peter Sudyka, it could be better for everybody if we keep using terms and symbols that could be understood by the vast majority of the people, just to avoid misunderstanding. Or not?
No amtter which way you turn it, Kosova will never be part of Serbia ever again. I don't care if you call it Supervised Independence/Independence or what have you. The bottom line Serbian boot (Military and Police +Politics) will never walk in Kosova again.
Some of serbian camp here, like Peggy #10 and Co say that: "K-Albanians you will never be independent".
By saying this they dont understand that if we will not be independent, you will not be independent also. What about K-sers? If we are not independent will K-serbs be independent??
So, your independence will also depend on us.
Independence = Freedom
If we have no freedom = you dont have no freedom.
I can clearly see that you dont care about K-serbs.
Any way, by talking and talking you cant prevent independence. We are doing it by facts in the ground.
If serbia wants to keep kosova, and give them same rights, which they will not give, because it will mean that Serbia in less than 25years will be taken over by the best.
there are already Chinese police officers serving in Kosova under UNMIK. These police officers would be releasing the ones already here since their mandate has come to an end natural thing I recon. So, I say that this might be news for you but not for Kosovars.
Czech parliament MAY is the key word reject an Independent Kosova but hey that is what opposition party says.
There is nothing that will stop people of Kosova to accomplish their dream of living in freedom in their land formerly occupied by Serbia. Will of majority people in Kosova has to be respected!
Oh boy, stand by for the flood of comments. Since the EU has finally awaken and smelled the coffee, there is not going to be total independence, so either you get aid from the EU and EU will supervise Kosovo along with a 1800 man assistance force consisting of officals and police to enforce laws and regulations. I have said many times that the EU does not come with a price and EU is in it for the money IE Trepca mining and other booty it can extract. There will be some that will say it is better than living under Serbia's thumb but you have to realize that Kosovo will be under the EU's thumb. Still no independence and not able to do as you please. EU will speak for you. Another gesture to appease Russia who will in turn let there partners know there not getting screwed over but just slap and to turn the other cheek. Serbia enjoys memebership in the EU with Kosovo still attached. Game Over. P.S this is not meant to provoke but a very real scenerio out of the possible many.
The above article has nothing to do with Kosova remaining a part of Serbia. The EU wants supervision over an independent Kosova and they are welcome to conduct such supervision.
Mr. Jansa is not saying anything new. This is Ahtisaari plan in action - i.e. supervised independence. Kosovars are completely aware about this scenario and thus the Ahtisaari Plan and the subsequent EU mission in Kosovo have been widely accepted by Kosovo institutions.
I could have sworn that Princip and some others on this site have said that Ahtisari's plan is tossed in trash bin, right. I guess it just jumped on the table again from trash bin.
Princip you can twist/stear/spin this article anyway you want it, but the facts is that EU want’s supervisory powers from Kosova government not from Serbia! It’s not asking Serbia for permission nor has any intention to do so
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=01&dd=07&nav_id=46754
In addition the same Janez Jansa stated yesterday
“For Kosovo it's clear what will happen, it's more a question of how to do it," Jansa said.
"It's not possible after all this" to force the people of Kosovo to live with the Serbs, he concluded, adding that it was "better to start building new relations."- Let me see how you are going to spin this one Princip!
"Serbia can let it be governed by the EU - that does not involve loss of sovereignty.
Neither is it independence.
(Bob, 8 January 2008 14:30) "
If EU is to preside over Kosova, then Kosova will be member of the EU with full voting rights. Which means, Kosova has the right to nix Serbia's membership in EU and nix any of the other Serb supporting nations's proposals. :) Works both ways, doesn't it? BTW, to get into the EU, one has to be a full sovereign independent nation, anyway.
Kate:
There is something called a reality check which shows that Kosova is no longer part of Serbia. And reality on the ground often transcends ownership deeds, which are on such occasions transformed into just a bunch of worthless papers. And by the way that is what has happened to the Serbo-Russian interpretation of 1244 too. You are stuck in the past way too much Kate.
And as for the EU plan: I think that is the best and most desirable outcome, and had Ahtisaari or the EU not proposed it, we Albanians should no doubt have done so. The Ahtisaari plan was what we aimed for all along and I think there is no need for us to be smug and arrogant by pretending we need no supervision and guidance as we establish our own state, because we do. Getting independence was just phase 1. The real hard work begins now and we are under no illusions that it is gonna be easy.
Whether Kosovo can or cannot be 'sustained' as a Serbian province is not something up for change. It remains a Serbian province, and any agreements must take that into consideration.
"...such a European mission, designed to replace UNMIK, "would not be sent to a totally independent country, sovereign country."
If such a mission is sent to the legally recognised province of a sovereign nation then it must be with Serbia and the UN Security Council's approval.
It is crucial that all procedures are processed through the proper recognised legal channels.
This is not just about Kosovo. This is about the preservation of international law and security. This is everyone's business.
Well, well, full independence would be disaster however. I think pro Serbian camp was saying this all along. There will be no independence in its real terms. This basically means that Kosovo is going to end up with no sustainable solution for long time whatsoever and whatever they call it in the future. This again only proves that EU wants Serbs but not Albanians into the EU. So, they will create a signing the SAA with Serbia and perhaps entrance in the near future while keeping Kosovo as so called "not full independence" but still within Serbia's borders away from the EU and kind of isolated . The proposed independence will be still status quo in just another form. The EU obviously has no clear vision over Kosovo and Metohija's future and its final solution. It would be wise for the Albanians to accept the Aland proposal and works themselves alone on their future without Serbia's interference. I think, at this moment that Serbia has made more generous offer than the EU.
So the watering down is happening - EUMIK (under UN auspices) supervised autonomy is clearly what is being spelled out given that 1244 still applies. Clearly the EU are looking for assurance from Serbia and Russia even for this given that they cannot legitameltly send a mission to Serbia's province without UN consent but that is what it really is - EUMIK under UN governance. Moreover, the UN mission will actually continue and will still be in place for the next year at the very least - China is sending 18 police officers aswell - small but extremly symbolic that the EUMIK is actually a continuation of UN administration all the same - just need to clean out the mafiocratic strangle hold - so not quite Status Quo but all the same continuing Serbian sovereignity.
For the dreamers of secession read; Peacekeepers prepare for Kosovo mission
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2008-01/08/content_6376471.htm
"A team of 18 police officers from Sichuan Province will fly to Kosovo next month to take part in a yearlong United Nations peacekeeping mission, officials have said."
Thus the EU 1800 is in all reality just a "part" of a wider UN policing mission - has no-one told Thaci yet or has he suggested another new date - Dec 20008 perhaps ?
It is all a hoax and charade to tone down the radical elements amongst the ethnic Albanians so that violence does not occur. In the meantime Serbia will continue on its path towards EU while strengthing its position economicaly, diplomatically and institutionally (more governmental offices) within its province.
Illegal declarations mean little substance just as Ischinger pointed out last September;
"The label is worth nothing. Where are they going to get their income from? They would continue to rely on foreign aid."
Independence for Kosovo is off the agenda, envoy reveals
http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2973548.ece
UNMIK already tried to sell the Trepca mining befor the government stopped the process. What makes you think EU would have more power for doin the same thing? What goes for govern the state, EU mission will much more look like a observer while being build with EU standards and help creat it.
WOW Serbian camp, you never cease to amaze me. Mr. Jansa has become very popular suddenly.
OK lets see what has he said form my point of view.
‘Voice of America (VOA) quoted Slovenian Prime Minister Janez Janša as saying that Kosovo's heavy dependence on EU assistance means it cannot be totally independent, and that the 27-nation bloc "wants supervisory powers in return for financial aid and a 2,000-strong assistance mission of legal experts and law enforcement agents."
This means Ahtisaari proposal without SC decision nothing else and it is nothing new
Speaking to journalists in Ljubljana, Janša said Kosovo "will not have total independence," and added that such a European mission, designed to replace UNMIK
"would not be sent to a totally independent country, sovereign country."
We all are aware that Kosova without EU help cannot survive. Supervised Independence means not total Independence. The second comment made has more to do with Serbia and not Kosova if you study it carefully. To clarify what Int. law says for sovereignty of a country
A territory that is supervised by someone else cannot be the territory of the sovereign country. Serbia has no control over Kosova for over 8 years.
Serbian camp accept SAA agreement make happy majority of Serbs in Serbia.
This stance does not surprize me, I think that it is actually a good idea from the EU. How to implement it is another story, but nontheless the idea is a good start, a sort of forced compromize which could not be reached at the Troika talks. Kosovo getting full independence just like that was no way of stabilizing the region, Serbia getting Kosovo back was also no way of stabilizing the region, this is the middle ground, completely supervized administration of the province in the meantime to avoid a Russian veto and American recognition, while the internal problems are sorted out. Good move I say.
Final status of the province should only be decided when the situation is stable, some consensus has been reached by the IC and Serbia has been relatively appeased.
K-Albanians you will never be independent.
At least with Serbia you can enjoy some respect belonging to a country which belongs where ever it wants to belong. A country that can make decisions for itself and a country that has it's own voice.
You have just been told in no uncertain terms that if you are going to live on welfare you will be told what to do and when to do it.
Do you wish to live like respectable people or do you want to live on handouts and say how high when told to jump?
Hi,
You don't have to be Einstein to understande that Kosova will be indenpendence.There is only a few countries, who doesen't support that and the rest of the world will recognize Kosova as a state .
Some of serbian camp here, like Peggy #10 and Co say that: "K-Albanians you will never be independent".
By saying this they dont understand that if we will not be independent, you will not be independent also. What about K-sers? If we are not independent will K-serbs be independent??
So, your independence will also depend on us.
Independence = Freedom
If we have no freedom = you dont have no freedom.
I can clearly see that you dont care about K-serbs.
Any way, by talking and talking you cant prevent independence. We are doing it by facts in the ground.
If serbia wants to keep kosova, and give them same rights, which they will not give, because it will mean that Serbia in less than 25years will be taken over by the best.
(Doni, 8 January 2008 14:52) "
Doni,
you missed the point entirely about the K-Serbs. The K-Serbs do NOT want to be independent. They want more than anything to remain part of Serbia.
Hehe, once again we think alike. I think it's the most rational reasoning on this matter, I hope that the people of Kosovo and Serbia come to accept it as well, like I said from the beginning, one cannot get it all while the other gets nothing, it simply will not contribute to stability.
luciano
Nobody cares what Albanians or Serbs want, everyone is simply stating their ideas on what is the best solution for the region. The West says this, the East says that, it doesn't make what someone "wants" any more important than the other.
If someone really did care, there would have been a solution back in 1999.
"The label is worth nothing. Where are they going to get their income from? They would continue to rely on foreign aid."
Independence for Kosovo is off the agenda, envoy reveals
[link]
Oh what a tangled web we weave......
(Princip, UK, 8 January 2008 11:36)
Princip, why I am not surprised with, yet another, twisted story of yours.
You quoted Mr Ischinger but you forgot that we are not blind not to see that he said that on 18th of September, and that, he only said to please Serbs delegation hoping to reach a compromise. Nice try but is this your best shot, your best argument, providing 3 month old news as new?
Anyway, as for Mr Jansa's comments, may I just remind you about Germany's stance back in September where it was all over the papers stating that Germany will not recognize UDI of Kosova?
You were all happy and celebrated. Few days later another anonymous German source said, of course Germany will recognize Kosova, but we are trying to please Serbs until the talks ends..
The same with Jansa's comments, he is saying this because he wants Tadic to win the elections, hence mentioning the fact that "Kostunica is not the only one, there are more moderate politicians" in Serbia, referring to Tadic. This was pure to brainwash Serbian voters so they can elect Tadic as Serbian President.
We all know from the beginning of these talks, that Kosova, was to be supervised by EU, hence not fully Independent. But hell yes, we will be fully independent from Serbia, and are, as we type..
Jansa's comments change nothing, at least not for us Albanians, Ahtisary plan supervised by EU - until Kosova proves to EU that they can protect the rights of Serbs minorities.
As for EU police forces, wait till they get to Kosova and once there your sacred 1244 will be nothing but number of historic dates for us Albanians. 12 44 are the years of Albanians Independence, 12 >1912 (Albania's Independence) and 44 stands for 4+4=08>2008 (Kosova's Independence)
so if Kosovo and kosovars cant have any claims because serbs used to be a majority there many centuries ago, does this mean that serbs in vojvodina must not complain if it ever comes to an ethnic clash there? after all, hungarians are leaving vojvodina at an alarming rate, so according to a serb definition of whats happening in kosovo, this is ethnic cleansing. Ironic, thats all.
This attempt to further dissect the still living body of Serbia reminds me of how I imagine William Henley must have felt when, as a young man in England, he developed tuberculosis of the bone in his leg. The doctors amputated the leg just below the knee, but then informed him that the other leg would also have to come off. Deciding he had to draw the line then and there, he called upon all his strength to refuse their decision. The next two years he worked to make himself well, and having become cured, lived an entire normal lifespan! It was during these first two years he wrote his famous ‘Invictus’, the last lines of which are, “No matter how straight the gait, nor how charged with punishments the scroll, I am the master of my fate. I am the captain of my soul.” It seems to me Serbia has been dissected enough, and needs to think about drawing a line. EU politicians are no more likely to know what is best for Serbia than were the doctors in the case of William Henley.
The above article has nothing to do with Kosova remaining a part of Serbia. The EU wants supervision over an independent Kosova and they are welcome to conduct such supervision.
(Nick KS, 8 January 2008 11:23)
I knew i would be roasted by the Anti Serb Poster so i just pick one to respond to, so the Slovenia rep that was quoted by VOA was mis interpreted or misunderstood. I said before that this would not go through and we are speaking about aid for EU Supervision nothing about independence because Kosovo does not have the infrastructure to support itself and no one wants to realize that. Yes the EU is not UNMIK and you will see what will happen with Trepca. For those who said last year May 06 there would be independence then Dec 10th and Status Quo at this moment. No matter how much you guys say i am crazy stupid or whatever look at the facts Is Kosovo any closure to independence? Nope, will the EU come and supervise Kosovo after UN has failed. Yes when who knows. Will Kosovo be independent this year? No because 1. Kosovo, then Rep of Srbska, vovodina, western romaina to Hungary, north greece, western macedonia, southern Montentgro to Albania, Kurds to Iraq the list goes on 90 percent of the countries mentioned are either members of NATO or on the door step. Supverison by EU in turn all borders of Europe will be done away with EU rules Europe and there will be no more borders Europe will be ran from Brussel so there will be no more need of independence because eveyrone will be part of Europe. So the independence part is done away with serbia is happy and Kosovo is happy.
Can you tell me what freedom you are talking about? Do you mean the freedom of over 50% unnemployed people in KiM? You have been free from Serbia since 99 and what has the KiM government done so far? absoultiley NOTHING, except putting money in their pockets. People have no electricity and live like they are in the stone age. Or maybe you mean freedom as in - getting "free" money from Europe while sitting at home and just blaming Serbs for your innabillities?
The Serbs built everything in KiM. What have the albanians contributed? ABSOLUTILEY NOTHING. They just wine and wine and never stop.
"It's not possible after all this" to force the people of Kosovo to live with the Serbs, he concluded, adding that it was "better to start building new relations."- Let me see how you are going to spin this one Princip!
[link]
(laki NY, 8 January 2008 15:35)"
Yes, laki NY, there will be new relations .... with the border at the Ibar. The K-Serbs will only cling on to Belgrade even tighter than ever. You will have de facto partition at the start, eventually solidifying enough to become de jure when the West finally bites off more than it could chew and tires itself trying to untangle from the web it had weaved around itself.
My question still remains though. From a legal point of view, with 1244 still valid, how EU going to be in Kosovo except as part of a "new" UNMIK?
To those dreamers of an ever changing deadline realise that the Chinese are sending their own police contingent in a YEAR long UN commitment in Serbia's province as highlighted in my comment #7. Thus this makes a farce and mockery that the EU will run the show - reality is it will continue to be under UN auspices and as such continued Serbian Sovereignity.
Regarding the EU there is more and more joining the pro-International law and State sovereignity side beyond
Do the US and a "few" EU states want to be seen as anti-International law and anti-Sovereignity and territorial integrity? Looks like there is a change in the wind from the Czech Parlimentarians ;
Czech Parliament may reject an independent Kosovo
http://www.radio.cz/en/article/99376
- EU is divided and the "few" anti-International law states are becoming isolated and less vocal by the week! I suppose France's Sarkozy is preoccupied with his upcoming nuptials while the UK have been distancing themselves from lame duck US foreign policy dictakt!
Illegal secession will remain illegal and as such will be a continuation of Status quo limbo but with adverse economic effects then as present.
Full independence was never a reality and that the EU is planning on taking over executive authority in Kosovo is probably the best thing Albanians could have realistically hoped for.
No matter how you slice it, all roads to Kosovo's supposed independence were blocked: UN (Russia/China veto), EU (Cyprus et al block), UDI (domino effect of other statelets following suit). While it is apparent that the status quo in Kosovo can no longer be sustained, while it is also apparent the Albanians refuse to return to authority by Belgrade, it is also apparent no one really wants to give Kosovo full independence if it will come at the expense of regional instability, particularly in Serbia proper.
Therefore, the compromise solution, and the outcome I've been predicting for a while here seems to be coming to fruition: EU mission sets up local institutions and self rule in Kosovo with no legal status of independence or internationally recognized separate sovereignty - at least for the foreseeable future.
Good. It's time we put this ridiculous circus to rest. As long as the EU tells Belgrade it will send a mission without recognizing independence, Serbia will be more likely to sign on the dotted line.
The Albanians don't seem to see that at the end of the day the EU is not allowing their leaders to stand on a podium and announce their historic Independence! Thus Kosovo remains Serbian and quite frankly that's all that the Serbs want, in fact they really don't want to govern what has become a money Pitt ghetto, they would rather the EU support your welfare needs.
Nick and others can spin this however they want but the bottom line is there will be no Independence or self rule for the Albanians, Kosovo will remain Serbian and the EU will govern Kosovo. The Albanians in Kosovo will forever be a people without a real country, much like the Kurds in Turkey.
Albanians can be sure that the new Serbian passports that are coming out in March will not be available to them, the Serbian Government has made this clear.
first of all compliment to Princip, he´s absolutely right. that´s just what I thought too, but I do did not post it, since I had not searched for facts underlining that.
but, Princips hyperlinks do that quite well.
to Olf:
one thing you really should accept: you were not occupied, the simplfe fact is, you have never been the ones to be occupied, because that land came back to it´s rightful owners after the ottoman-occupation ( which you have supported - what is by the way the reason, why nobody in the balkans has bigger symphathy with Albanians, just as nobody in the middle-east likes todays Turks )
finally to the Henley-quoting Victor:
let me compliment you on this! Invictus fits like a glove, not only for the reason you gave. and I would never have expected to read one of my favorited poems of the early american fiction here in this forum! I am surprised.
On the contrary Peter-how bad somebody wants something is the main determinant of how hard they are willing to fight for it.On the other hand for objective purposes cost/benefit analysis is the main determinant of whether an action makes sense or not.What are the costs for the EU in recognizing Kosovo independence versus the benefits?
Mike, Peter and others, I would suggest you read this article fully and appreciate the relevance; Trading with the Enemy by David Dastych
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/1250
It gives some insight into why opium production has risen so sharply in Afghanistan and Kosovo is a core trade route of drugs through into Europe and of interest is the final section;
"wrote Arkady Dubnov – “that the United States and the government in Kabul need trafficking to keep the Afghani financial market in shape. In other words, these revenues enable the Afghani Central Bank to maintain the local monetary unit at the proper level. Without them, it would have taken substantial financial injections from Washington.” "
I guess we can start to comprehend the continued limbo for Serbia's province that will continue to exist if the EU step in with dubious legality. The strangled hold of the mafiocracy which will contain the ethnic-Albanians within a economic dead zone since the mafia related economics is the only economy there is and neither the EU nor the US wish to spend any of their taxpayers money in actually resolving matters.
Politics is full of deception. The West have their puppet strings nicely attached to Thaci's lips and his inexperience is evident. The simple fact is Thaci and co have absolutely no control over this situation whatsoever. When the West pull the puppet strings, his mouth opens and he says what they want.
When Serbia offered the Albanians the best deal they would get, he said "No". A Serbian deal was the biggest threat to the West so they told the Albanians they would get independence. But Kosovo will never be independent, no matter what the Albanians think, there is not such possibility without the UN. The borders of Serbia will remain the same and neither will the Albanians have international representation. The only two main conditions of a Serbian deal. You will get neither from the West but you will also lose control of your destiny, which the Serbian's offered. Kosovo will be occupied by NATO and they have no intention of leaving for a very long time. The proof is Camp Bondsteel. Check link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Camp_bondsteel_kosovo.jpg
The best possible outcome was for the Serbians and Kosovo Albanians to make a deal on Autonomy and to live separately but side by side. Now the Albanians have new rulers. They will take what they can and leave you the crumbs.
it´s not clear yet, but it could be that they have already handled the stiuation, by excercizing power on behalf of Serbia, and leaving it within the borders of Serbia ( UNSC 1244 remains untouched ).
that would be a foul compromise, since sovereignty should be in the hands of the republic of Serbia.
albanian kids could feel themselves as winners, while they would factually be ruled by the EU on behalf of Serbia.
although I do not like that idea, it could work for a certain period of time.
(after a possible EU-entry, even UNSC 1244 wouldn´t be neccessary since the EU has to protect the borders of it´s member-states )
sooner or later the Albanians would have to face reality, when their fanatism is cooled down.
as I said, that´s not what I find the best solution, but if it should turn out to end like that, then it would mean that all those "negotiations" were really a bogus in order to get time to prepare all for the "take over" ...and it could also be that all of them are involved, the Serbs, the Russians and the US.
but, who knows, maybe that´s only nonsense... and what could be, does not have to be.. :)
These slovenians are a joke. If they think that the EU nations opposed to independence will accept this, they will learn a humiliating lesson in diplomacy. They were chosen to lead the EU at this time to take the blame for Europe's impotent foreign policies.
The only benefit I see for the EU recognizing Kosovo is for stability in the Balkans, which in turn could lead to new memberships in the future, that is about it. It has nothing to do with what the Albanians want, the fact that they agree with this stance is coincidential, as they are not for the same reasons.
Princip
I know of the opium route from Afghanistan to the West, unfortunately Kosovo is a huge transit area, due to the unresolved status, but the fact of the matter is this involves a few individuals, whereas the EU needs to take into account the welfare of the majority. Perhaps the EU will find a way to combat it, since the Kosovo Police are hopeless, maybe even corrupted by it.
Your proposal and interpretation of the EU's position sends us right back to 1999 when UNMIK established itself in Kosova.
The repetition of that scenario is not acceptable to the Kosovar Albaiansd and any mission from any international organization that wishes to establish iteself in Kosova can do so in an independent Kosova. Anything else means new hostilities and a humiliation for the the EU.
you missed the point made by the fellow Pole who makes a point that the opium trade in Afghanistan is tacitly encouraged since without it US and Western taxpayers money would be required in huge sums to actually resolve matters. I think the same will continue for Kosovo & Metohija and the case is clear in the IEP report many months ago
"The study, commissioned by the German army, says the European Union's security strategy for a future mission in Kosovo is "neither analytically nor conceptually sustainable." The "false belief" in the blessing of independence is pushing "hopes for a leap in prosperity to unrealistic levels," it writes. Instead, any setback threatens to result in "serious unrest if not revolutionary-like upheavals.""
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,471178,00.html
The fact remains that this report was based upon the imposition of a UN decision but all that is being forced now is even worse as it is one out of the UN i.e. continued limbo and at best a frozen conflict with no economic development what so ever - have you seen the EU budget approval for vast sums - all it covers is the 1800 officials salaries.
Talking of conflict lets now debunk the myth that haste is of the essence and an imposition is immediatly required or all hell will break lose! This was said again and again but shown not to be the case in the last 2 years since Kosumi was replaced by Ceku who is now being replaced by Thaci because of ever extending self imposed deadlines. The reality is the vast majority of Serbian Albanians in its province understand economic development is more key to bringing a better future to them and their children so why should the vocal and violent minority have a strangle hold over their future? NATO are their to ensure violence does not occur - surely they can handle the situation and quell violence or is this an admission that they cant ?
The fact remains there is still
No illegal declaration
No illegal recognition
No violence - NATO will act.
Quite often I sense a disingeniuos streak from the EU technocrats/failed politicians who would rather not admit wrongs but love Serbia to drop Kosovo & would equally contain and exclude the ethnic-Albanians and Albania itself from their "club" just as they keep providing excuses for Turkey - do you catch my drift?
"Quite often I sense a disingeniuos streak from the EU technocrats/failed politicians who would rather not admit wrongs but love Serbia to drop Kosovo & would equally contain and exclude the ethnic-Albanians and Albania itself from their "club" just as they keep providing excuses for Turkey - do you catch my drift?"
I do catch your drift, unfortunately us peoples of CEE have little say in the matter, considering most voting power lies in the West.
Dear Peter Sudyka, what are you saying?
Are you talking about CEE meaning EU?
Where do you come from and, above all, where have you ever been until now?
Do some research. CEE means Central and Eastern Europe, but is more specifically used to describe ex-communist Central and Eastern European states that are not a part of the CIS (Commonwealth of Independent States), most of which are now in the EU, save for Serbia, Macedonia, Albania, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Croatia and Montenegro.
I am from Poland, been to many countries in Europe, what does that have to do with anything anyway?
Dear Peter Sudyka, it could be better for everybody if we keep using terms and symbols that could be understood by the vast majority of the people, just to avoid misunderstanding. Or not?
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