every time i have visited serbia, i've never been able to avoid the ubiquitous "seselj" grafitti -- in large cyrillic lettering, along the streets of cities and towns. fortunately or not, i studied russian for several years, so even though my comprehension is minimal, the lettering is pretty EZ to decipher... is this still the situation in serbia, is he still so widely adored??
part of the reason it has taken so long to get this to trial (oh must i always state the obvious?) is due to his unending trickey and machinations, and his frankly histrionic personality. the court is forced to give these defendants the greatest leeway, or risk losing the case on appeal. but when you are dealing with a confirmed sociopath, it's a risky game, as in the milosevic story. they may seem normal enough, but they most assuredly are not; they play by their own internal rules, and no matter how nasty and vile they speak and act (and this seselj is esp.ly vile) they never feel guilty, since their sense of right and wrong is... tentative, to say the least.
given his deep involvement in the horrors of the 90s, i do not believe that he'll ever leave prison alive, which should be fine for him since he can play the martyr like his late pal.
the thing about b92, english version, is that we around the world can read all of the posts, and see the nationalist POV, in all of its permeatations. from my side, it isn't very pretty.
Seselj is not in Hague because of his speeches, however, inciting violence is against the law in many countries. His speeches were very much how Hitler like before ww2 in calling for destruction of other nationalities/religion and creation of a greater empire, in this case greater Serbia. Hitler said jews were a threat? So just because someone thought something was a threat, doesnt mean it automatically was. I doubt b92 will show this because i am comparing seselj to hitler. whilst i wont deny that crimes were not to same scale, there are many similarities at early stages. you have to remember, hitler was only seen as bad once ww2 started.
Oh what an expert this sociologist is. Like these kind of speeches weren't common occurence on all sides during th e war. How about the Croatian HDZ member and murderer of Serbs in Osijek Glavas giving speeches on how Croats shouldn't be ashamed of their Ustashi grandfathers and similair diatribe.
This court is political. Does not have to do anything with justices. If this means something then you can put on court a half of the world leaders including Margaret Tacher, Clinton, Bush etc. Strategy of UK and USA in this region, are indentical to German's in 1st and 2nd world wars. Russia has to be on our side! DS
seselj is to the best of anyone's knowledge not an ethnic serb. it doesnt really make a lot of difference since all he did or did not do was on behalf of serbs, but he just aint one.
I don't doubt that Seselj said some nasty things about the enemy during the wars. I also don't care if he did.
He wasn't the one issuing the orders. As an opposition politician in Serbia during the wars, he didn't have any power. All he did was recruit volunteers for the Bosnian-Serb and Krajina-Serb armed forces -- after that they were subordinated the VRS or the SVK and they weren't under his control.
He wasn't the one on the ground when the crimes were committed. All he ever did was shoot off his big mouth.
I'm disturbed by the fact that he's even on trial in the first place. Sure he's a loudmouth, and sure he said some nasty things, but that doesn't make him a war criminal for God's sake. Lots of people said a lot of nasty things. Should we arrest everybody who had something mean to say about the Serbs?
This is a disgrace. The UN has arrested a man and put him on trial just because he had an opinion that they found distasteful.
The tribunal has really compromised itself with this. Seselj is a clown and he always has been. He will turn this trial into the biggest circus you've ever seen. On top of that -- the charges against him are absurd. The ICTY will lose every last shred of credibility it had by doing this.
Whilst I have sympathy for Seseljs human rights - he handed himself over voluntarily and he has been waiting for YEARS in custody - which is totally unnaceptible, that does not make him innocent.
Unlike Milosevic, who made very few, if any macho statements and rabble rousing, Seselj was cheerleader in chief. Now he will pay for those statements, whether they were exaggerations, sheer populism for the masses, or a real belief in his own philosophy.
He used every opportunity to stir up emotion and incite people - the complete opposite of my philosophy of negotiate, negoatiate again and if that fails negotiate once more time. War is a last resort, not something to be banded about as if it is normal behaviour.
'since when is "hate speech" a war crime??? Send this man back home where he belongs'
Obilic, 11 December 2007 17:12)
I quite agree he should be sent back to Bosnia and perhaps tried in his country.
Dont tell me you didnt know. Next you will be telling me that you dont know that Seselj is a Croatian surname!
This court makes itself look worse as each day goes by. They have nothing to prove on Seselj and saying something is not the same as actually doing it is it?? I dont think so!...Seselj in the end will simply be freed as he is not guilty of war crimes. Maybe Clinton, Blair, Albright should be tried for crimes as they ILEGALLY bombed a soveriegn nation! Seselj, stand and defend yourself as you have thus far and one day SOON you will beat this court!! You are what Srbija has been missing for the past few years. You surrendered on your own and you will walk out of the Hague just as you came in!
Hague is real joke. Now when they cannot find anything that would prove Seselj as a war criminal they asked some sociologist to prove that Seselj's speaking incited the violence. Now, this is very funny. Sociologist, my Goodnes. What is this court turning to? This man should be released and allowed to go home since this Court makes no sence to me.
A sociologist is a worthless job. You can find communist-leaning sociologists. Fascist ones. Feminist ones. Chauvinist ones, and so on, and the libraries have whole sections on their theories on society, and so many of them differ in their views. This is the first time I ever heard a sociologist giving evidence in so-called trial. The prosecutors are scraping the bottom of the barrel here because where else can evidence of someones opinion be used to convict someone? What a joke.
I have heard rumors from Serbia that even the Radicals are trying to find ways of distance themselves from Seselj because: 1. it has finally hit them that Seselj is just a delusional, radical and 2. they finally have realized that he is doing them more harm than good. I do not know how true such rumors are, but were the Radicals to show the courage to distance themselves publicly from this guy, they would end up as a much more palatable, "Radical light" version of what they stand for now thus doing Serbia a great service.
I don't doubt that Seselj said some nasty things about the enemy during the wars. I also don't care if he did.
He wasn't the one issuing the orders. As an opposition politician in Serbia during the wars, he didn't have any power. All he did was recruit volunteers for the Bosnian-Serb and Krajina-Serb armed forces -- after that they were subordinated the VRS or the SVK and they weren't under his control.
He wasn't the one on the ground when the crimes were committed. All he ever did was shoot off his big mouth.
I'm disturbed by the fact that he's even on trial in the first place. Sure he's a loudmouth, and sure he said some nasty things, but that doesn't make him a war criminal for God's sake. Lots of people said a lot of nasty things. Should we arrest everybody who had something mean to say about the Serbs?
This is a disgrace. The UN has arrested a man and put him on trial just because he had an opinion that they found distasteful.
The tribunal has really compromised itself with this. Seselj is a clown and he always has been. He will turn this trial into the biggest circus you've ever seen. On top of that -- the charges against him are absurd. The ICTY will lose every last shred of credibility it had by doing this.
A sociologist is a worthless job. You can find communist-leaning sociologists. Fascist ones. Feminist ones. Chauvinist ones, and so on, and the libraries have whole sections on their theories on society, and so many of them differ in their views. This is the first time I ever heard a sociologist giving evidence in so-called trial. The prosecutors are scraping the bottom of the barrel here because where else can evidence of someones opinion be used to convict someone? What a joke.
Hague is real joke. Now when they cannot find anything that would prove Seselj as a war criminal they asked some sociologist to prove that Seselj's speaking incited the violence. Now, this is very funny. Sociologist, my Goodnes. What is this court turning to? This man should be released and allowed to go home since this Court makes no sence to me.
Oh what an expert this sociologist is. Like these kind of speeches weren't common occurence on all sides during th e war. How about the Croatian HDZ member and murderer of Serbs in Osijek Glavas giving speeches on how Croats shouldn't be ashamed of their Ustashi grandfathers and similair diatribe.
This court is political. Does not have to do anything with justices. If this means something then you can put on court a half of the world leaders including Margaret Tacher, Clinton, Bush etc. Strategy of UK and USA in this region, are indentical to German's in 1st and 2nd world wars. Russia has to be on our side! DS
This court makes itself look worse as each day goes by. They have nothing to prove on Seselj and saying something is not the same as actually doing it is it?? I dont think so!...Seselj in the end will simply be freed as he is not guilty of war crimes. Maybe Clinton, Blair, Albright should be tried for crimes as they ILEGALLY bombed a soveriegn nation! Seselj, stand and defend yourself as you have thus far and one day SOON you will beat this court!! You are what Srbija has been missing for the past few years. You surrendered on your own and you will walk out of the Hague just as you came in!
I have heard rumors from Serbia that even the Radicals are trying to find ways of distance themselves from Seselj because: 1. it has finally hit them that Seselj is just a delusional, radical and 2. they finally have realized that he is doing them more harm than good. I do not know how true such rumors are, but were the Radicals to show the courage to distance themselves publicly from this guy, they would end up as a much more palatable, "Radical light" version of what they stand for now thus doing Serbia a great service.
every time i have visited serbia, i've never been able to avoid the ubiquitous "seselj" grafitti -- in large cyrillic lettering, along the streets of cities and towns. fortunately or not, i studied russian for several years, so even though my comprehension is minimal, the lettering is pretty EZ to decipher... is this still the situation in serbia, is he still so widely adored??
part of the reason it has taken so long to get this to trial (oh must i always state the obvious?) is due to his unending trickey and machinations, and his frankly histrionic personality. the court is forced to give these defendants the greatest leeway, or risk losing the case on appeal. but when you are dealing with a confirmed sociopath, it's a risky game, as in the milosevic story. they may seem normal enough, but they most assuredly are not; they play by their own internal rules, and no matter how nasty and vile they speak and act (and this seselj is esp.ly vile) they never feel guilty, since their sense of right and wrong is... tentative, to say the least.
given his deep involvement in the horrors of the 90s, i do not believe that he'll ever leave prison alive, which should be fine for him since he can play the martyr like his late pal.
the thing about b92, english version, is that we around the world can read all of the posts, and see the nationalist POV, in all of its permeatations. from my side, it isn't very pretty.
Whilst I have sympathy for Seseljs human rights - he handed himself over voluntarily and he has been waiting for YEARS in custody - which is totally unnaceptible, that does not make him innocent.
Unlike Milosevic, who made very few, if any macho statements and rabble rousing, Seselj was cheerleader in chief. Now he will pay for those statements, whether they were exaggerations, sheer populism for the masses, or a real belief in his own philosophy.
He used every opportunity to stir up emotion and incite people - the complete opposite of my philosophy of negotiate, negoatiate again and if that fails negotiate once more time. War is a last resort, not something to be banded about as if it is normal behaviour.
'since when is "hate speech" a war crime??? Send this man back home where he belongs'
Obilic, 11 December 2007 17:12)
I quite agree he should be sent back to Bosnia and perhaps tried in his country.
Dont tell me you didnt know. Next you will be telling me that you dont know that Seselj is a Croatian surname!
seselj is to the best of anyone's knowledge not an ethnic serb. it doesnt really make a lot of difference since all he did or did not do was on behalf of serbs, but he just aint one.
Seselj is not in Hague because of his speeches, however, inciting violence is against the law in many countries. His speeches were very much how Hitler like before ww2 in calling for destruction of other nationalities/religion and creation of a greater empire, in this case greater Serbia. Hitler said jews were a threat? So just because someone thought something was a threat, doesnt mean it automatically was. I doubt b92 will show this because i am comparing seselj to hitler. whilst i wont deny that crimes were not to same scale, there are many similarities at early stages. you have to remember, hitler was only seen as bad once ww2 started.
Seselj is not in Hague because of his speeches, however, inciting violence is against the law in many countries. His speeches were very much how Hitler like before ww2 in calling for destruction of other nationalities/religion and creation of a greater empire, in this case greater Serbia. Hitler said jews were a threat? So just because someone thought something was a threat, doesnt mean it automatically was. I doubt b92 will show this because i am comparing seselj to hitler. whilst i wont deny that crimes were not to same scale, there are many similarities at early stages. you have to remember, hitler was only seen as bad once ww2 started.
I have heard rumors from Serbia that even the Radicals are trying to find ways of distance themselves from Seselj because: 1. it has finally hit them that Seselj is just a delusional, radical and 2. they finally have realized that he is doing them more harm than good. I do not know how true such rumors are, but were the Radicals to show the courage to distance themselves publicly from this guy, they would end up as a much more palatable, "Radical light" version of what they stand for now thus doing Serbia a great service.
Hague is real joke. Now when they cannot find anything that would prove Seselj as a war criminal they asked some sociologist to prove that Seselj's speaking incited the violence. Now, this is very funny. Sociologist, my Goodnes. What is this court turning to? This man should be released and allowed to go home since this Court makes no sence to me.
Whilst I have sympathy for Seseljs human rights - he handed himself over voluntarily and he has been waiting for YEARS in custody - which is totally unnaceptible, that does not make him innocent.
Unlike Milosevic, who made very few, if any macho statements and rabble rousing, Seselj was cheerleader in chief. Now he will pay for those statements, whether they were exaggerations, sheer populism for the masses, or a real belief in his own philosophy.
He used every opportunity to stir up emotion and incite people - the complete opposite of my philosophy of negotiate, negoatiate again and if that fails negotiate once more time. War is a last resort, not something to be banded about as if it is normal behaviour.
'since when is "hate speech" a war crime??? Send this man back home where he belongs'
Obilic, 11 December 2007 17:12)
I quite agree he should be sent back to Bosnia and perhaps tried in his country.
Dont tell me you didnt know. Next you will be telling me that you dont know that Seselj is a Croatian surname!
every time i have visited serbia, i've never been able to avoid the ubiquitous "seselj" grafitti -- in large cyrillic lettering, along the streets of cities and towns. fortunately or not, i studied russian for several years, so even though my comprehension is minimal, the lettering is pretty EZ to decipher... is this still the situation in serbia, is he still so widely adored??
part of the reason it has taken so long to get this to trial (oh must i always state the obvious?) is due to his unending trickey and machinations, and his frankly histrionic personality. the court is forced to give these defendants the greatest leeway, or risk losing the case on appeal. but when you are dealing with a confirmed sociopath, it's a risky game, as in the milosevic story. they may seem normal enough, but they most assuredly are not; they play by their own internal rules, and no matter how nasty and vile they speak and act (and this seselj is esp.ly vile) they never feel guilty, since their sense of right and wrong is... tentative, to say the least.
given his deep involvement in the horrors of the 90s, i do not believe that he'll ever leave prison alive, which should be fine for him since he can play the martyr like his late pal.
the thing about b92, english version, is that we around the world can read all of the posts, and see the nationalist POV, in all of its permeatations. from my side, it isn't very pretty.
A sociologist is a worthless job. You can find communist-leaning sociologists. Fascist ones. Feminist ones. Chauvinist ones, and so on, and the libraries have whole sections on their theories on society, and so many of them differ in their views. This is the first time I ever heard a sociologist giving evidence in so-called trial. The prosecutors are scraping the bottom of the barrel here because where else can evidence of someones opinion be used to convict someone? What a joke.
This court makes itself look worse as each day goes by. They have nothing to prove on Seselj and saying something is not the same as actually doing it is it?? I dont think so!...Seselj in the end will simply be freed as he is not guilty of war crimes. Maybe Clinton, Blair, Albright should be tried for crimes as they ILEGALLY bombed a soveriegn nation! Seselj, stand and defend yourself as you have thus far and one day SOON you will beat this court!! You are what Srbija has been missing for the past few years. You surrendered on your own and you will walk out of the Hague just as you came in!
I don't doubt that Seselj said some nasty things about the enemy during the wars. I also don't care if he did.
He wasn't the one issuing the orders. As an opposition politician in Serbia during the wars, he didn't have any power. All he did was recruit volunteers for the Bosnian-Serb and Krajina-Serb armed forces -- after that they were subordinated the VRS or the SVK and they weren't under his control.
He wasn't the one on the ground when the crimes were committed. All he ever did was shoot off his big mouth.
I'm disturbed by the fact that he's even on trial in the first place. Sure he's a loudmouth, and sure he said some nasty things, but that doesn't make him a war criminal for God's sake. Lots of people said a lot of nasty things. Should we arrest everybody who had something mean to say about the Serbs?
This is a disgrace. The UN has arrested a man and put him on trial just because he had an opinion that they found distasteful.
The tribunal has really compromised itself with this. Seselj is a clown and he always has been. He will turn this trial into the biggest circus you've ever seen. On top of that -- the charges against him are absurd. The ICTY will lose every last shred of credibility it had by doing this.
seselj is to the best of anyone's knowledge not an ethnic serb. it doesnt really make a lot of difference since all he did or did not do was on behalf of serbs, but he just aint one.
This court is political. Does not have to do anything with justices. If this means something then you can put on court a half of the world leaders including Margaret Tacher, Clinton, Bush etc. Strategy of UK and USA in this region, are indentical to German's in 1st and 2nd world wars. Russia has to be on our side! DS
Oh what an expert this sociologist is. Like these kind of speeches weren't common occurence on all sides during th e war. How about the Croatian HDZ member and murderer of Serbs in Osijek Glavas giving speeches on how Croats shouldn't be ashamed of their Ustashi grandfathers and similair diatribe.
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