Ten inconvenient truths about Serbia

#1.

“While this same "disease" is prevalent everywhere in the former Yugoslavia, it has remained stronger - and a more important factor - in Serbia than almost anywhere else. It is rare to find any Serb, for example, who does not totally blame…”

Mr. Montgomery, you seem to over look the fact that Tadic attended the 10 year anniversary of Srebrenica and offered an apology to the Croatian people for the crimes committed in the name of the Serbian people. The fact is Serbia is light years ahead of the other Balkan countries in accepting what their mistakes were. Croatia celebrates their worst crime, Operation Storm, as a national holiday and names bridges after Tudjman. The Albanians and Croatians celebrate their criminals as heroes, while Serbs have fully embraced the fact that Milosevic was a criminal. While I agree more needs to be done, you are ignoring the progress the other countries have made.

You are probably confusing a desire to set the record straight and correct earlier inaccurate reporting as an attempt to lay the blame completely on others. Serbs more then any other people in the Balkans desire for the whole truth to come out. The fact is massive distortions of the truth such as 100,000 Albanians being murdered by the Milosevic regime before the start of the NATO bombing are still repeated in the Western Media to this day. The reality is Serb crimes are well exposed in the media, while crimes against Serbs often go unreported. We Serbs have an obligation to ensure our victims are not forgotten.

You do Tadic, and so many moderate Serbs like us, a great disservice by dismissing us as non-existent. Its exactly these types of one-sided statements that drive the Serbian population as a whole into a more nationalistic mind set.

Its simply astounding to make such a claim on a moderate website such as B92, which now has broad popular appeal among much of the Serbian population and is the most trusted source of news in the region. Are you actually making the claim that B92 doesn’t exist either?

#2.

You blame the perception of victim hood on the retention of power by nationalistic elements in Serbia. You blame Serbian politicians for not doing more to combat nationalism, yet ignore the role played by the West in demonizing all Serbs as whole, which you are continuing to do. The fact is the West supported Operation Storm instead of condemning it as they should have. The fact is the West continually lied about and exaggerated the crimes being committed in Bosnia, Croatia and Kosovo. Yet when respected organizations such as the ICTY correct these lies, it goes unreported and ignored by the West. The fact is the West agreed to respect Serbia’s territorial integrity in order to stop the violence in Kosovo, yet has consistently refused to implement the agreed upon conditions set out in UN Resolution 1244. Dindic sacrificed his very life in the struggle against nationalism in Serbia, and Tadic has consistently done his best to do what is right, yet instead of supporting them and praising them, you deny Serbs like them even exist. When you demonize a people as a whole and label them collectively guilty, do not expect them to embrace you as friends when at the same time you are slandering their good name. Its no wonder the Serbian people as a whole greatly distrust the West.

The most effective way for the West to combat “nationalism” in Serbia is to live up to their promises and agreements and to support those elements of Serbian society that are desperately trying to reform the country. This would show the Serbian people that the West are a people that can be negotiated with, and maybe even trusted. You can not build friendships and relationships with a people who do not trust you.

#3.

“The West viewed the downfall of Milošević as repudiation by the Serbian people of the actions he and his government took during the decade of the 1990s.”

This is absolutely correct, but all it proves is the West has a very poor understanding of how the Balkans function. You continue this misunderstanding by claiming the Serbs voted Milosevic out of office because they wanted “to obtain Western assistance and support.”

The Serbs were tired of being demonized and being misunderstood. They wanted change for the better. They wanted Western objectivity in handling issues in the Balkans. Yet despite throwing Milosevic out, and sending him to the Hague, Western treatment, attitudes and perceptions of Serbians and Serbia have not changed one bit. The West must respond to, acknowledge and support elements of Serbian society that demand change, instead of claiming they don’t exist or are merely “rare”.

Serbia’s position historically, geographically and traditionally has been of one between East and West, yet you demand that we look only to the West, or you will deem us undemocratic and nationalist. This needs to change.

#4.

“the fact is that if Serbia would have played its cards correctly, it could have remained the most dominant country in the region.”

Croatia and Slovenia have always been much more Western in outlook and feel with a much more “developed” sense of Capitalism. Possibly Serbia could have retained the UK’s support had they been smarter in how they presented their Public Relations, however Germany’s support has always been with Croatia, and Germany is the EU basically. Maybe you’d want to examine the effect Germany’s recognition of Croatia’s independence (despite the strong objections of the UN) had on the break up of Yugoslavia and its potential “peaceful transition”. The West is doing exactly the same thing in Kosovo by ignoring the recommendations of World Institutions and threatening to act unilaterally.

#5.

You do not seem to understand how a multiparty system works, its very different from a two party system like in the US. Essentially, Serbia has a three party system. The Left (Tadic), the Middle (Kostunica) and the Right (The Radicals). You act as though the Left and Middle out to outlaw political thought and banish the Right from politics in Serbia. Parties like the Radicals will continue to appeal to certain segments of Serbian society as long as the West continues to demonize the Serbs as a whole. Eliminating or banishing the radicals at this time would only result in further radicalization of the population, a reversal of democracy, and the appearance of possibly more extreme political parties.

#6.

You seem to forget that one million Serbs attended the 600th Anniversary of the Battle of Kosovo, that is a significant proportion of the Serbian population.

You then go on to say “It is precisely this ongoing drama which is preventing Serbia from coming to terms with its past.” as if somehow granting Kosovo independence would help build trust with the Serbian people?

The reality is, no matter how you state it, the West wants to carve up Serbia, and you can not claim to be friends of the Serbian people at the same time you want to tear out the very heart of the cradle of our civilization. Its sad, but true, and you can not have it both ways.

#7.

Yes, there is a HUGE difference in the culture, education and economic levels between the rural areas and the cities. Its like that everywhere in the world.

#8.

OK, I’ll buy it.

#9.

“The only explanation I have is that the minorities in Serbia have accepted that they have very limited political power or influence and the Serbs, as a people, find that extremely difficult to do.”

The ONLY explanation I have is that in those regions that experienced violence (Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo) the Serbs have in the recent past been victims of GENOCIDE during WWII. Slovenia, Macedonia and Montenegro experienced no problems because traditionally the Serbian population were not endangered by those populations. In addition, much of Tudjman’s message reminded Serbs of the Ustashe and what we suffered then. The Jews would most certainly act in a very similar manner if threatened by German Neo-Nazi’s. I agree that Milosevic acted in a most barbarous manner and those crimes should be strongly condemned, but to completely ignore the root causes of the violence is extremely disingenuous and insulting.

#10.

“The conditionality imposed instead made it far harder for democratic governments to function and contributed to the resurgence of nationalism.”

You even confuse “nationalism”, anti-westernism and democratic values with one another. They are all absolutely separate beliefs, and one does not exclude the other. Nationalism is merely the extreme of democracy. Calling Anti-Western sentiments as undemocratic is hypocrisy at its height…

As an American, ex-diplomat and educated man Mr. Montgomery should know that the USA Law System characterizes the trial by public opinion as unacceptable, and that invocation of a verdict by the public opinion trial does not help his case. Serbs know exactly what happened to them and their families during dismemberment of the Former Yugoslavia. They do not need an American to tell them what happened. We vividly remember the picture of another American ambassador (Peter Galbraith) riding on the Croatian tank entering the UN protected zone called Kraina in clear violation of the UN resolutions with obviously full backing of the American government, which marked the beginning of the most successful operation of ethnic cleansing in the wars of the Former Yugoslavia Desolation. Serb live with the consequences of this criminal act and many others, which are intentionally overlooked by Mr. Montgomery. Thanks to Mr Holbrook yet anther American ambassador’s (Robert Frasier) statement, relating to the ethnic cleansing of Kraina is on the record: "Dick: We 'hired' these guys [i.e., Tudjman and the Croatian military leaders] to be our junkyard dogs because we were desperate. We need to try to 'control' them. But this is no time to get squeamish about things."

Go, bre, William, and sell your extraordinary wits all around America, teach them lessons on democracy, giving up nationalism, and stopping the crusades you do all over the world.

He doesn't seem to know what he wants.

Just look at number 7

" Moreover, the privatization, which took place in Serbia, has been the most successful perhaps in all of the countries undergoing democratic transition."

Then,

"There is a growing gap between a large body of relatively impoverished people (including pensioners, unemployed and people in the economically-depressed regions) and a smaller percentage of people who are economically well off."

When was the last time he has been to the US?
In one hand he always is in favour of free-market economy, in other "impoverished people", "groving gap" , "handful of economically well-off", etc.
Are you for or against free market economy?
The rest of it is beyond comment, so I'll just save some space here.
Just to mention one example.

"At the same time, Serbia itself is extremely multi-ethnic and multi-religious. "
In the same time he kept writing about need for Serbia to "repudiate nationalism" and come to "terms with its past".
Does Croatia, for example need to "repudiate nationalism" ? No, glorifiying WW2 Nazies is stil normal there. Sugar bag with Hitler's image, anyone?
I guess it goes with "historical background more conducive to Western democratic processes" that exist in Croatia and Slovenia.
I could go on, but this really isn't worth it.
Instead, I can only suggest to B92 to make some space for a simmilar "oppinion article" of some former Russian Ambassador. There is too many Westerns on this site, fuelled by their "peace-loving genes" giving oppinions and advices to everybody. All in the name of demokracy, of course. One look at Latin-America will reveile to anyone that they are not about establishing democracies. How many generals and their brutal regimes they've brought to power? Where have we seen genuine interest in human rights there? Guatemala?

Here is my own list of inconvenient truths:
1) The US foreign policy is anti-Serbian due to well funded albanian, croatian, and bosnian muslim lobby groups. If there is to be peace in the balkans, Serbia must be treated fairly.
2)Present day Kosovo is an apartheid state where minorities have no rights. Giving the reward of a greater albania simply because of the threat of violence is highly illegal and even more immoral.
3) Russia, China, India, Indonesia, South Africa, Greece, Cyprus, Spain, Portugal, Slovakia, Belarus....these are just some of the countries opposed to the creation of greater albania. Do the math, that is most of the world population already, therefore despite all the propoganda, MOST of the world is with the Serbs on this issue, with more jumping aboard every day.
4) The 'Racak Massacre' was a hoax, staged, used to justify the illegal 78 day bombing of Serbia. The US bombed the wrong side - as General Lewis Mackenzie has indicated.
5) The only real genocide that happened in the recent wars is in Krajina and Kosovo, where the Serbian population has almost disappeared. The US played a DIRECT role in both cases, and Richard Hollbrooke and Madeline Albright belong in the Hague for both crimes.
6) Russia will veto any attempt to illegally amputate a part of Serbia. Therefore, greater albania will not happen legally.
7) Unilateral recognition of greater albania will lead to unilaterl recognition of Republika Srpska by Russia, followed by other countries. Count on it.
8) Northern Kosovo will remain Serbian, no matter what scenario happens.
9) Serbia is the most multiethnic and tolerant country in the Balkans.
10) Serbs are a smart, proud people and know the truth (see above). Bombarding them with lies and propoganda will not work. Dollars will not buy them.
11. Kosovo is Serbia.

Mr. Montgomery does not have a clue about Kosovo and Metohija. Kosovo and Metohija (you do not even know proper name) does not look like as a property for sale.
Mr. Montgomery, you can’t sell the roof of the house separate from whole house. It is possible in the case when house have been demolish only. What you want (and some like you) is to demolish Serbia.
Mr. Montgomery, I am from Australia, and even from so far away or call it “down under”, if you prefer, I could understand what’s happening on Kosovo and Metohija more than you. Mr. Montgomery the grab-time (colonisation) is over. Even here in Australia we are working on return of Aboriginal land to proper ownership.
By the way, personally I do not like persons that take rights to judge other people, especially proud nations such as Serbs. Who give you the rights?

Serbians are more nationalistic than Albanians, or for that matter, Americans? That is not even close to being true. No nation is more nationalistic than America, but the Albanians are a very close second. And the reason Serbs are not visiting Kosovo is not because they don't want to, but because they don't want a bullet in the back of their head.

I read Montgomery making reference to Kosovo, not Kosova. When Albanians write in English, why do they interject Albanian spellings? I wouldn't say I'm going to Wein, Austria for the weekend - I would say Vienna, because I am writing in English. Is this just a petty way to try and annoy Serbian commentators? Anyway, I would like to ash Mr. Montgomery what is wrong with being a Nationalist? Don't all citizens that around the world that want to preserve their land and cultures belong to this group. I believe in the USA they are called Patriots. Why has the West made being Nationalistic bad? Long live Serbia! Oops, I guess I wasn't politically correct there.

with articles like this, B92 is disqualifying it´s own credibility.

in a time, when it is about defending serbian sovereignty against a brutal fascist-like ideology of a greater albanian state, against Albanians burning down centuries old cultural heritage..., bringing up articles like this is just a nice example how great US-influence is in the B92-bureaus.
free media, western democratic style, of course.

He who pays the piper, calls the tune, as they say.

perhaps, B92 should bring articles with relevant information rather than garbage like this.
Bravo B92-guys, the Albanians applaud you and you can really be proud of yourselves.

Even though I can argue how most of the points Mr Montgomery has mentioned are not backed up by facts and are flawed with omissions of WHY exactly Serbs feel mistreated (eg Krajina and the Selective US policy) I would like to argue the point that if anyone wrote the inconvinient truths about the USA, there would be a much larger list. As a world leader US has to set examples however US has more social issues than most of the world. Racisam, poverty, inequality and many others rule the country which prides itself on being free. So can someone please publish the article on 100 inconvinient truths about the US or Albania and dont stop there you could probably write just as many for any country in the world. Why are Serbs always the target. Its the hypocrasy that kills me!

Usually I enjoy reading Montgomery's opinion pieces, believing them to be at least reasonably well informed even when I disagree with some of the content. This one however has little to recommend it and demands a response. Matthew ably made most of the points that came to my mind as I read the article, and thank you Michael Moore for pointing out the incredible hypocrisy in Montgomery's statements.

Since the factual points have been made, I will share a few anecdotal counterpoints, as a Canadian with no blood ties to any Balkan country, but many friends from all parts of former Yugoslavia. I have to say that I know many Serbs who readily admit the faults of their own side. In fact of all the ethnic groups involved in the destruction of Yugoslavia, I find Serbs as a group, to be the most open-minded and the most interested in understanding the truth. The only rabid nationalists that I have had the misfortune to meet were from Croatia and Kosovo (Albanian ethnicity).

As an example of the complexity of the political leanings in Serbia, it seems useful to share one particular story. When I visited Serbia a couple of years ago, I happened to spend an evening at the home of a Muslim woman, originally from Bosnia, who is married to a Serb, and her neighbours who spent the evening socializing with us, were a Croat man and his Serbian wife. The Muslim woman noted that she would vote for the Radicals in the next election because she saw them as the only ones who would not sell out Serbia to western interests. When asked if she had ever experienced prejudice from her Serb neighbours or employers, she said that she never had. Her Croat neighbour declared that he would not live in any other part of former Yugoslavia because people in all of the other republics were too intolerant and racist.

In Serbia, I heard much black humour about the bombardment. Montgomery conveniently omitted mention of the bombardment that destroyed the infrastructure of Serbia and killed civilians; volunteers working in hospitals that became bomb targets, for example; and workers in factories that had nothing to do with the military, but simply had the misfortune to be Serbian owned. Schools were destroyed and apartment buildings. It is amazing to me how strong the recovery has been, following the destruction. It was also amazing to me to discover how open and friendly the people of Serbia were, knowing that I came from a country that had been bent on their destruction.

I get very tired of the Serb-bashing among the comments on this site, and it is particularly disturbing when it is done by someone like former Ambassador Montgomery, who clearly knows better.

A few inconvenient truths about you, Mr. Ambassador:
You are not new to the Balkans, but were posted here in the 70's. Your clearly pro-State Department anti-Serb stance seeps through in even your most eloquant prose.
Facts:
The bulk of the officer corps of the JNA were not Serbs, but Croats and Slovenes, many of whom conspired to break up Yugoslavia while their idealistic Serb comrades were still saying "bratsvo and jedinstvo."
Milosevic's actions in KosMet did not create the crisis there, but rather those of Tito, who pandered to Albanian expansionism by allowing unmitigated immigration, and the repression of Serbs at the advance of Albanian culturo-centrism. His speech in Gazimestan did not ignite wars, but rather falsely promised Serbs protection from increasing persecution.
The Croats were well prepared for a violent separation, one that your government supported. Moreover, the Senate Foreign Policy Appropriations Bill of 1989 clearly states that Your Government planned even then to strangle Yugoslavia economically, and support the soon to be separatist republics.
Indeed, you admit the multi-cultural, multi-denomination and tolerant nature of Serbs and Serbia, yet you seem dumbfounded why they would not want to be a minority in anyone elses state. Look at how they have been treated there by Croats, Bosnian muslims and KosMet Albanians since 1990- present. Not to mention the past.
Unfortunately, Serbs are the least nationalist of all the Balkan peoples, much to their detriment. Until they return again to their Serbian culture and Christian souls, which Your Country did a fine job of pillorying and destroying by making both a crime, they will forever be blown in by the winds of Western diktat into not only doing, but believing, what foreign intruders say to and about them.
Serbian people rightly view themselves as the primary but not exclusive victims of Western and local aggressions. But even much of the local Serbian press espouses your Government's line about sole Serbian culpability. Apparently you will not be satisfied until they all accept complete guilt and happily commit collective suicide.
There are so many more real facts, but I think our readers get the point.
Nice Try, again.

William we have heard this backwards logic from your politicians for a long time and we've learned to tune it out.

The situation in the country is improving greatly and we are glad to look towards the Russia and the East rather than the corrupt mafioso that controls the West.

The article is a little unbalanced (though not as much as some comments have implied), but is mostly quite accurate. The main obstacle for Serbia coming to terms with its past (and this isn't true only for Serbia, though it does hold particularly strong there) is the paranoia about the 'outsiders' that's been cultivated there for so long. And then you have to account for the fact that Serbs are absolutely sure (just look at our history books!) that we have always been the absolute victims, and have never born any responsibility whatsoever for our own situation. And not just that, but also that there's no other people in the world that's suffered as much as we have - which goes to the belief that most Serbs still have in the 'special' destiny of their people.

And on Kosovo: I don't understand how people can demand that it remain part of Serbia, when there's 2 million Albanians there who don't want that. Let's say Kosovo remains part of Serbia; what do you think would happen next? Does anyone have a plan on what to do with a province where 90% of the population would most likely take to arms rather than be part of Serbia?

Better to negotiate an acceptable deal for Serbs still living in Kosovo and for the protection of Serbian cultural heritage there.

I love how B-92 pretends to know EVERYTHING about democracy and yet you are completely ingnorant about its most simple principles. I am an American and can inform you first hand that A representative government DOES and SHOULD reflect the majority opinion of its citizens and if the majority of Serbs want to keep Kosovo than THEY ARE the true democratic voice and NOT B-92 who has no feeling or regard for its own genesis. It is obvious that you have learned your idea of democracy from the likes of Liberal American Democrats who spew the same self defeating nonsense that you do in America. The only reason why American Liberals want to give Kosovo away is that the whole mess was Bill Clinton's idea to begin with. Like you, American Liberals don't like their own country, they hate their military, they call those who are patriotic and love their country "Nationalist" (as if defending your country is something bad), they don't believe in capitalism, they LOVE socialism and they have a thinly vieled dislike of Christianity to the point of wanting to see Islam harm it. Your attitude of willingness to give up Kosovo shows that you (B-92)have lost your identity as true Serbs and indeed want to be know as a European Union member which is NOTHING to be proud of. Just ask yourself if separatists were ever to try and take away America's cradle of democracy, Washington D.C. and become independent if the United States would ever give up their cradle of national being. In your lust to become nebulous Europeans you are willing to give away a large part of your own country and the genesis of your nationality. Actually, other than high placed world politicians with an agenda, the world is indifferent to you and doesn't care. Do you envision Italy giving up the Vatican in Rome, France giving up Paris, England giving up London or any other scenario of like significance ever happening?? AT B-92 you wish to be EU people so bad that your are willing to sacrifice the genesis of your Serbian identity to be an EU club member. The Serbian Government and vast majority are 100% correct in holding on to what is rightfully theirs and perhaps YOU should move to Pristina and fight along with the Albanians to steal Independence from your own government. In their gratitude to you afterward the Albanians will kill you and nobody will care.

His former Excellency has actually offerred a pretty accurate description of facts, most of them of significance for the current U.S. administration. It's called a brief. And it might be inconvenient to him and his bosses, it's up to them.

U.S. has essentially failed to secure the southern part of Eurasian area of [chess table] and the barbarians are [comming together], while even and the barbarians are [the tax income] is not secured.

What's good for us, Serbs, about this "incovenience" is that we are in win/win situation.

If U.S. push for unilateral recognition of Kosovo outside U.N.S.C., we'll have divided Kosovo with our troops in at least some parts of it, with the backing of Russia and other countries of growing free world and we'll be waiting for further deterioration of U.S. hard-pressure over divided E.U. We won't become member of NATO, since it would ruin our claim over Kosovo, while K-Albanians would learn what "the Taiwanization" means and how tought such a life would be.

If U.S. abandon the present policy of supporting unilateral recognition of Kosovo outside U.N.S.C., we'll rightfully attribute it to the Russian support. Again, we of course wouln't become member of NATO.

You former Excellency, you had your chance. You finally blew it for the reasons you briefly listed in your opinion. No spin doctors are able to justify your "principles", amounting from expulsion of Krajina Serbs to expulsion of Kosovo Serbs and grab of our land. The same principles should have been applied everywhere in former Yugoslavia. Now it's obvious your single principle was to decimate us, the Serbs, and to have us as the largest nation in the Balkans having the smallest state.

You've lost us for good.

Nothing in this article that I'd want to change, maybe add more but I won't.

This article basically says, "wake up Kosova is lost," and also "please do make sure to visit Kosova." LOL

It's amazing to see the reactions of the Serbs to this article. It proves Montgomery's point better than Montgomery ever dared to hope. A few weeks ago when he wrote Ten truth on Kosovo he was applauded and received compliments and was proclaimed a hero and what not. Now he seems to have lost the Serbs forever. Rather than looking at the arguments he puts forward and discuss them rationaly, the reactions of most were emotional. All were quick to point out that the US has many more problems etc, conveniently forgetting that that was not what he was writting about. The article was about Serbia's problems guys and whether you agree with his assesment or not you can at least counter his arguments by putting forward counter arguments and not commenting on his hiden agendas and other nonsense like that which goes to show how objective you guys really are. Thank God Kosovo is forever free of people like these who think of themselves as untouchables.

I applaud B92 for posting such an objective and daring article. I agree with the points presented 100%. But I do not think that such fine penmanship will do anything to sway the Serbian beliefs in being the perfect victims, and that everything is the fault of their neighbors. The Milosevic regime, and many other regimes preceding it, have worked too hard to ingrain the Serbian mind with those ideas. It is now virtually impossible for Serbs to see things in any other way. Most of the comments which will be posted in response to this article will demonstrate as much.

I am not going to writte anything, since the article speaks for itself.
It hits the nail in the head.
Truth is harsh, but is much harsher when you dont realize it.

As far as writting the name Kosovo or Kosova it really does not matter, either way it seems that is gone from Serbia.
Again sooner this is realized it wont be as harsh!

To the moderator of B92: I see you have deleted a lot of my postings that were written in the past. Its OK.
Its your blog. Thank You.

**PEACE**

Just look at the reactions coming from the Serbs here. Do they accept anything from the article? The answer is no, and that is fine. There is nothing wrong with it. However they go further by accusing Montgomery and the United States. That was one of the inconvenient truths in the article. The Serbs accuse everyone in the world about their situation. That way Serbia or the Serbs are never guilty. The world and external factors are always guilty for what happens in Serbia.

Matthew,

I'm behind you 100 %. I have the deepest respect for all Serbs who accept responsibility for the atrocities committed in their name, especially since they have to endure exaggeration of their responsibility for the YU wars and general black painting, while crimes and wrong doings against Serbs and Serbia are denied, diminished or simply not spoken about.

1. The overwhelming majority of Western people have a totally different perception of events in the region over the past twenty years than the people who actually lived through them. While this same "ignaorance" is prevalent everywhere in the former Yugoslavia, it has remained stronger - and a more important factor - in the West than almost anywhere else.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to find any Kosovo Albanian, for example, who does not totally blame the Serbs and only Serbs for all the troubles there. The same is true for the overall breakup of the former Yugoslavia, whereby all the responsibility lies with the Serbs.

Do I need to continue?

Dearest William, as a Serb I would like to visit Kosovo, I really would. But the thought of being chased by wild Albanian mobs who sense a 'Slavic' language within their midst is a real setback for me.
If you can promise me that I will experience no kicking or spitting, then I would love to visit my spiritual homeland.

hahaha, its quite ironic how the very serbs who are attacking Montgomerys piece and USA, are the very ones who are confirming Montgomeries points and inconvinient truths about Serbia!

Lot of posters here are showing the symptoms of the 'disease' that Montgomery described.

Instaed of rationaly countering his points, many here are attacking Montgomery for being american, biased, and attacking USA, and claiming how it was all CIA's fault for the crimes serbs commited. (Sypmtoms of point 1#).

Its scary how this is so obvious and blatant to anyone apart from serbs!

Prime example is Montenegro and Montenegriens: throughtout the history they were closest of allies to the serbs, but still they wanted independence from the nationalistic 'disease' of Serbia. But let me guess, it was the CIA agents that voted for independence in Montenegro!!

I'd like to know how many ordinary Serbs Montgomery mixes with - away from cyncial politicians posturing about one matter or another. And of course from his perspective Serbs seem like nationalists. This is part of the (rational/irrational) game plan - to persuade outsiders that every Serb is obsessed with their 'Jerusalem'. If outsiders / Westerners swallow this they may back down on supporting Kosovo independence.

Quite contrary to his view that Serbian politicians cannot be brave in confronting the Serbian population with harsh truths, it is the politicians with their quasi intellectuals and supporters in the media that helped create the lack of serious debate on the Kosovo issue.

Well spotted that the Serbs voted Milosevic out primarily because of their economic situation. Then it also follows that the popularity of the Serb Radical Party is at least partly due to their social policies (ie opposing reform / transition and all that comes with it) so its not necessarily nationalism or victimhood here. Its about opposing policies that will negatively affect your future.

Supporting Kosovo remaining within Serbian borders is not evidence of nationalism. Nationalism of the type you mean is one that grants rights to ones own community but ignores the rights of others. For sure within the 'Kosovo staying within Serbia' camp there are people that see the issue is zero sum terms but some dont support Kosovo staying within Serbia on nationalistic grounds.

Your 4th point is partly correct but you have to bear in mind again that it was not the people that caused conflict it was politicians and their followers.

"it is now being seen as a concrete example of how the International Community ignores international law to suit its own purposes and demonstrates its prejudice against Serbia and overall hypocrisy"

And lets be honest isnt this true? It might be useful to consider why people believe this.

"There is a growing gap between a large body of relatively impoverished people (including pensioners, unemployed and people in the economically-depressed regions) and a smaller percentage of people who are economically well off. "

Quite, but with all due respect its the system that you support - capitalism that is creating these differences. Ironic that this system is actually increasing the amount of support for the Radical Party.

Its fair enough to look at domestic reasons for certain behaviour etc but without taking a look at the larger picture - the 'principles' of the international community and the way Serbia's neighbours behave one can easily draw the wrong conclusion about Serbs from your piece.

To Save Kosovo

In your dreams!!!

While to some degree Montogomery makes the point, it's very sad that he is not able to step away from American Officialdom.
Same old story goes here, Serbian blood-thirsty nationalist (surrounded by lamb-like Croats, Muslims and Albanians) are to blame for everything.
I don't wish to comment in particular on this article. It's been covered in "Parallel universes and self-fulfilling prophecies".
Problem is that most people don't want to take an honest look at what had happen in former Yugoslavia. Montgomery included.
It's truth that a great number of Serbs blame the others for everything and don't want to accept any responsibility of the Serbs for anything. The fact is, there is a lot of things for which Serbs should be blamed.
The fact is also that there is a lot of things for which others should be blamed, too.
In my oppinion the surrounding is lagging behind when it comes to this. It's maybe normal, nobody is blaming them for anything.
I could comment on few more things, but what's the point?
We will remain in our parallel universes.

I applaud Mr.Montgomery's rational thought in this article. He is honest, un-biased, objective and most importantly well informed. He has provided the reader with a rational diagnosis of the Serbian nation. The inconvinient truth should have been realised by Serbian people a long time ago. It is also a shame that they will not accept that Kosova is independent sooner or later..
Peace in the Balkans!!!

As a Dane, born with no inborn ties to Serbia, I would have to agree very much indeed with "anothercanadian" in every aspect covered in his comment.

I sometimes have a notion that Serbia is like the little young lad in The Emperor's New Clothes, who actually speaks the truth, amidst repression and lies. As a matter of fact I have once heard one Serb say that it might be smart if the Serbian people learned to hold their tongue sometimes in spite of the obvious call for response.

However, since the Serbian remarks have never been about a naked emperor, ridiculous in all of his pretension and conceit, but about the arrogance of the surrounding socio-cultural-political colonial powers, the reaction has never been the heartily laughter of the surroundings, like in the merry tale.

In so many ways I recognize what "anothercanadian" says: more than once have I been embarrassed when I visited Serbia, sitting in the garden with my hosts and their Hungarian & Bosnian neighbors, treating me like a royal herald - I who come from one of the NATO countries that supported and appealed for the bombing campaigns to be carried out back in '99.

When one points a finger, there are always three fingers pointing back at one self. I don't know many Serbs who run around pointing. Most of the pointing is going on outside of Serbia, from every side. That, which they say they are pointing at, however, I have never seen! It must be a ghost then, perhaps? Or maybe Horatio once more has put the telescope in front of his blind eye?!?

Right on target Mr. Montgomery! No one could have said the truth better. However, don't expect any agreeable comments from Serbs.

“To Matthew
Sir,the fact that you completely try to condone the crimes commited in Ex-Yu in the name of Serbian people does not do you any credit”

How? By calling Milosevic a criminal (twice) and strongly condemning his actions as barbarous? By applauding Tadic’s efforts to build reconciliation and apologize?

I do not condone Serbian crimes, I’ve admitted them.

“The same applies when you claim that Albanians are immigrants from Albania.”

I have NEVER not once done anything of the sort ever. Its truly sad you can not tell the difference between a Serb who is a moderate and one who is nationalist. This goes to the root of the problem to which I was referring.

“why for heaven's sake there are so few Serbs in Kosovo???”

That is something the Albanian people need to acknowledge and accept, not me. You guys have your apologizing you need to do as well. However, it is not my place to demand it. I can only offer apologies for the crimes committed in the name of the Serbian people and hope that your people will respond in a like manner.

“I am not even mentioning the catastrophic blood shed that took place…”

As I stated, we are all fully aware of the crimes committed in the name of the Serbian people, this has been well documented in the press.

“As far as Albanians are concerned, we are not angels, but…”

I think you make my point very well. You consider me a nationalist and condemn my statements, yet the reality is, I’m ready to accept that there were crimes committed by my people, and I’ve condemned them but you gloss over your crimes and claim you were forced to do things like the 2004 riots. Shameful, there is no justification for what happened in 2004. You were in no danger whatsoever.

The simple fact is no ethnicity in the Balkans treats their minorities with respect. You act as though Kosovo was a completely one sided slaughter. Yes, the ratio of Albanian victims to Serbian victims is 10 to 1, but then again, that nearly identically matches the population distribution as well.

Until the world recognizes Serbia’s efforts at reconciliation and acknowledges the crimes against us, Serbia is going to continue to be hostile to the West.

“I am trying to tell you Sir that the Albanians, Croats and the others are not to be blamed for the misfortunes that happened to Serbian people…”

Does this also apply to WWII and Jasenovac? Are you saying that was the fault of the Serbian politicians? Was Tudjman forced by Bosniak government officials to attack the Bosniaks? To destroy Mostar nearly completely? Have you read any of Tudjman’s writings? You see, Tudjman doesn’t fit in with your view that Serbs are entirely to blame for the violence.

1: The serbs have a different view than the rest of the world.

Montgomery plays the arrogant westerner to the hilt. The "West" does not equal 'the world'. Japan, India, China, Israel amongst many other states did not hold the same 'view' as could easily be evidenced by simply reading their media, or are some of these states not democratic 'enough' to count in Montgomery's world view?

2: Lying by ommission, i.e. only mentioning that it is the Serbs who see themselves as victims. It's hard to believe that this man has actually been anywhere in the Balkans. Everyone thinks they are a victim, or is it up to Montgomery, as an 'independent' outsider to appoint victim status like some Viceroy or head of empire?

3: The 6 recommended 'logical actions' are and always were absurd. If you call kicking someone when they are down 'logical', then you really are from another planet. You did the same to the Russians (look how grateful they are for US 'assistance') and tried to do it to the Chinese. The US has blown any kudos it had, big time.

4: Serbia couldn't have every played its cards right because the 'international community' dumped international law lock stock and barrel, recongnizing Slovenia, Croatia etc. without fulfilling the basic criteria, 1: control of ones own territory; 2: protection of minorites...

The EU had a common position of 'no recognition' without the above fulfilled, but Germany pulled out. The Badinter Commission dressed this up by deciding that internal administrative borders could become international borders.

5: Still has no idea about Serbian politics. Yes, they are fractuous, but the radicals & the socialists are not the same as before and are not a threat. They have publically said that enough is enough with the blackmail, but have not 'threatened' the region etc.

6: A fallacious argument. Most serbs don't go to Kosovo (do you personally know this or are you just repeating the 'current wisdom'?), ergo they don't need it and have no legitimate interest? If this passes for the strongest argument then things must be very bad in the american diplomatic service.

7: This is known as 'globilization'. As for corruption, stick to your own political lobbyists in Washington. I am waiting for the next WHO report to see if the situation of 35 million undernourished american citizens has improved recently.

8: So what? You are arguing that the US et al kept milosevic in power? Sanctions benefited those who knew how to circumvent controls, i.e. the mafia and made it so powerful and influential. You failed to add that western sanction significantly affected the development of Romania, Bulgaria and the other countries in the region, so you weren't just 'punishing' the Serbs, you were punishing many more people. How communist.

9: No. It proves that the 'free' and 'independent' media spewed racist filth with the help of those governments that bore nothing to do with reality. All the stories about 'serb purity' were just that, stories. There were no rivers of blood on the streets of belgrade or people of mixed origin beaten up on the street. I Croatia (Zagreb) it happend, with many people thrown out of their flats. Maybe you should ask a good friend of yours from Zagreb for a copy of the 'Oath of Loyalty' that all 'suspect' citizens were forced to sign 'pledging their allegiance to the new croatian state' on pain of loosing their jobs, benefits etc. It didn't happen in Serbia though did it?

10: How magnaninous to admit that the West blew it. As for an american commenting on EU policy... Without Serbia, the EU's balkans policy is meaningless. The EU needs Serbia, much more that either Bulgaria or Romania need new american bases. By the way, why are there still american troops in Europe?

I think that the Serbs are caught in a struggle between Russia and USA. In addition, USA has already bombed the Serbs on many occasions in recent years in ex-Bosnia-Herzegovina and in Serbia-Montenegro. Meanwhile, Russia has supported the Serbs diplomatically in the UN.

Ideally, Serbs would like to get on with their lives without interference from anyone outside, but unfortunately it is not yet primarily due to the external meddling.

@Johny

"Just look at the reactions coming from the Serbs here. Do they accept anything from the article? The answer is no, and that is fine. There is nothing wrong with it. However they go further by accusing Montgomery and the United States. That was one of the inconvenient truths in the article. The Serbs accuse everyone in the world about their situation. That way Serbia or the Serbs are never guilty. The world and external factors are always guilty for what happens in Serbia."

Please provide some evidence that USA and Germany did not push, cause and fuel Yugo-breaking conflict, and provide evidence that they did not put sanctions on Serbia afterwards. Give evidence also, that says why they are not trying to make Serbia into a WESTERNIA.

I absolutely expected article like this from Mr Montgomery because he took lot of hell from people in high places for previous article I am sure. I am also certain that MR Montgomery wish that he never wrote the previous article because he showed Serbs in better light than he usually does and K Albaniens for what they realy are. Too late Mr Montgomery-cat is out of the bag.

Oh Mihail More, nobody can write 100 or even one inconvenient truth about Albania. Because, for your info, on contrary with Serbia, Albania has not 300.000 victims of innocent slovenians, croatians, bosnians and albanians at hers conscience. And, on contrary of the 7 million serbs of the Balkans, the 7 million albanians of the Balkans have not any giantist syndrome, or the feeling they are the lords, the others should serve them.
As for the article of mr.Montgomery, I think he overestimates a bit the serbs, when he talks about Serbia being an important country in the region, Belgrade being a dynamic town or good opportunities of Serbia to join the "go ahead right to the EU and NATO" Balkan countries club such as Albania, Croatia or even Macedonia.
Take care.

To Matthew
Sir,the fact that you completely try to condone the crimes commited in Ex-Yu in the name of Serbian people does not do you any credit, Sir. It is true that Mr. Tadic did aplogize (was it to Bosniaks or to Croats?)for the crimes commited on their behalf, I mean Serbs. But the fact remains that even today there are slogans such as "NOZ, ZICA, SREBRENICA". The same applies when you claim that Albanians are immigrants from Albania and that Kosovo is heart of the cradle of Serbian civilization. If that is the case than why Serbian population (same as Alabanians) live in misserable conditions and why for heaven's sake there are so few Serbs in Kosovo??? I am not even mentioning the catastrophic blood shed that took place in Kosovo only eight years ago. You have to keep in mind that besides regular police forces (MUP)and the army (VJ) there were a lot of other paramilitary units who came down to Kosovo and commited horrible crimes in the name of Serbian people. And then again there is nobody in Serbia (I mean within the gvmt)that will addmit that smth was wrong
with the way Kosovo crisis was handled. I am not trying to blame or abolish no one but if you think that your neighbours (read Western countries)should SEE that you are truly a peaceloving nation and an important ally, You do need to put a real effort in it and prove it with facts and not threats. As far as Albanians are concerned, we are not angels, but at the same time evrything we did was impossed on us by the treatment we got during the last century. During the '80s we wanted to be an equal republic with the rest of YU. Who decided to send the tanks against us??? I am trying to tell you Sir that the Albanians, Croats and the others are not to be blamed for the misfortunes that happened to Serbian people, but the actions of your own policitians made for yesterdays allies to be seen as enemies today.

Teni, I think you hit the nail on the head. Its funny how William is seen this week compared to last week and more importantly why.

However what he has written is not anything new, its what is well known to anyone from ex SFRJ. Truth in Belgrade has always been difficult to accept and its unfortunate that it will continue to be as it will bring more misery to everyone in Balkans, including the serbs. its unfortunate.

Dino,

I supported the guy for accepting responsibility for war crimes committed by his people, in case you didn’t notice.

“If you look outside serbian propaganda and what your parents tell you, you will find them.”

First of all, as a Swede, the only Serbian propaganda channels I have access to is B92s’ English section. Does that count? Secondly I believe my parents’ knowledge of the former YU is very limited. They know of course that it’s the home of the Evil Serbs, but that’s about it.

“Had Serbia not be so obsessed denying its own crimes it would be able to see that there actually are people put in jails for crimes against serbs. of course there are examples on all sides where people have got away with crimes but significant amount are prosecuted. There are debates about crimes in all former Balkan countries while Serbs are so obsessed playing self-victim card that even justice against crimes of serbs is quickly forgotten because it doesnt suit the self-victimisation. Easiest thing to say is "noone like serbs". There is a reason for this.”

Well, maybe you should tell that to a Serb. But let me tell you, if you took classes in eastern European studies at a Swedish university you would see a different picture from the simplistic black-and-white one usually distributed by western powers and western media. You probably would consider it pro-serbian. I call it objective.

On a separate note, atrocities against serbs in ww2 is ignored because it has been replaced by what happened in 90's. what happened pre ww2 is not even discussed in most countries whose last war was ww2. But noone is going to take serbian cries about ww2 seriously given that they cant accept their own responsibility for a war merely 10 years ago or so.

I don’t know what WW2 has to do with anything, but I think it is a horrible, cruel thought that the atrocities committed towards a large number of people should be declared void with the motivation that people that happened to belong to the same ethnic group were responsible for other atrocities half a century later.

First of all- wow, what a great discussion!

Aside from all of the controversial stuff- one interesting point that Montgomery makes is that Belgrade is the most dynamic city in the region. The 21st century world is one of urbanized global economic centres of value generation. One cannot help but note that Serbia has a good strategic relationship with each of the three major global emerging economies of Russia, China and India. (All to be top 5 by about 2020)

Serbs have a natural capacity for IT and this will become more evident in the coming years as Serbia will become the European centre for IT- India for example already has a plan to develop a major technology park between Belgrade and Novi Sad in Indija. A Belgrade-Novi Sad urbanized megoplis is currently filling in.

Noone else in the Balkans has such the capacity for strong relations with these three emerging powers. Serbia is the only nations which these three actually like and respect. This is Serbia's main strategic advantage looking forward.

this looks to be something that Clinton, Albright and Holbroke wrote....B92 is an embarassment to all Serbians.

Montgomery must really have gotten nailed for his previous "Truths" about Kosovo article by the US State Department. This is so obvious. I enjoyed his commentaries in the past but, he has proven that he is just another DC mouthpiece. I think I'll go back to watching Jerry Springer reruns, they're more honest.

I'm behind you 100 %. I have the deepest respect for all Serbs who accept responsibility for the atrocities committed in their name, especially since they have to endure exaggeration of their responsibility for the YU wars and general black painting, while crimes and wrong doings against Serbs and Serbia are denied, diminished or simply not spoken about.
(Carl, Sweden, 20. August 2007 20:21)

Had Serbia not be so obsessed denying its own crimes it would be able to see that there actually are people put in jails for crimes against serbs. of course there are examples on all sides where people have got away with crimes but significant amount are prosecuted. There are debates about crimes in all former Balkan countries while Serbs are so obsessed playing self-victim card that even justice against crimes of serbs is quickly forgotten because it doesnt suit the self-victimisation. Easiest thing to say is "noone like serbs". There is a reason for this. If you look outside serbian propaganda and what your parents tell you, you will find them.

On a separate note, atrocities against serbs in ww2 is ignored because it has been replaced by what happened in 90's. what happened pre ww2 is not even discussed in most countries whose last war was ww2. But noone is going to take serbian cries about ww2 seriously given that they cant accept their own responsibility for a war merely 10 years ago or so.

As I said before, Balkan countries and most of world already know what William is talking about in his article. Im surprised that this is the first time its mentioned.

i have travelled all my life, in many countries...and i can say that Serbian people are the ones who not deserve to be under this situation!
stop conflicts!

Are you people insane ? Debating this absurd article, disecting who was at fault in mindless circles, all of you. Seriously, my friends embrace the fact of real politics and passive propaganda.
The real culprits are self-interest groups with much to much free money invested in consolidation of power. A potent threat to the real world, whichever side you're on. Followed by close second career criminal ie; organised crime.
All of us are arguing and fighting over trivialities, out glorious differences used as antagonists, while they clean up.

I really can't put into words how that makes me feel !!!

After reading Mr.Montgomerys article - i would like to concentrate on one statement that he made:
This misunderstanding of the basic cause of his defeat had significant consequences, as our policies and requests of the new Serbian government were based on the false premise that the Serbian people had repudiated nationalism.
This statement is simply childish, as are many US official views about Kosovo and perpetual claims independence of Kosovo as the only solution. I have never heared of any nation in the world that has repudiated nationalism on a certain date or at certain event in it's history. Such thing simply doesn't exist. There are views that America is young nation - and due to that has childish perspective of world and it's own importance in this world. There is also well funded view that due it's youthfulness American people are very selfish and very materialistic. We certainly can say that Serbs have significant nationalism - but so do Croats, and even more Albanians. But as for selfishness - I don't think that Serbs can compare to Americans.
As for nationalism in Serbs (and perhaps in any nation in the Balkans) it should slowly lessen through education of coming generations which should become aware of it's limitations... Certainly there will be no fixed date in future - when we can expect that - Serbs repudiate nationalism.

Mr William has missed the point on may of his comments. This article explains:

http://antiwar.com/malic/?articleid=11490

Why is everyone all over this guy? Let him say what he wants. It's a free country.

William Montgomery has things upside down.

In NATO/KLA occupied Kosovo, there's no Albanian like B92, which is openly critical of the repackaged KLA goons now given credibility.

As for some of his other points, even the not so Serb friendly Warren Zimmerman acknowledges Slovenian culpability in igniting its conflict with the then Yugoslavia. There's plenty of fault to find with the Croats, Bosnian Muslims and Albanians as well.

Luckily, the neocon/Soros funded neoliberal view of things is being challenged by Serbs with a backbone, a resurgent Russia and morally objective others.

To Matthew,
Sir, you have missed my point. I did put in parenthesis the gvmt for government.
I know what K-Serbs are going through right now in Kosovo. I have been there when the 2004 riots happened and it was not smth that anybody can be proud of. Human suffering is unneccesary on this day and age, especially in Balkans. Just for your information Sir, the riots were directed against UNMIK for not releasing the results of the autopsy and the investigation about the two Albanian kids that were drowned in the river (in case you don't know you can check it out yourself). And the testimony of an eyewitness clearly indicated that the kids were chased by Serbian youths near by the bridge and no legal action was taken against the perpetrators and it was during peaceful protests that people were being shot at from across the Serbian side of the bridge. Then Sir, Albanians tried to get on the other side of the bridge and two people were killed on the spot (whether by French KFOR or Serbs it was never clarified officially). The two day of rioting outcome was 16 Albanians killed and a few unlucky Serbs were beaten up by the mob.In Gnjilane a Serb run on purpose four high school kids going back home from school, and one of them is paralised even today and without a chance to recover due to the spinal cord injuries.A lot of Serbian houses were set on fire.
In no manner I condone what happened during March 04 and I know for a fact that it was never the same for K-Serbs. I truly feel for their suffering and missery for the simple reason that I have gone throgh the same myself. I, also know that KPS and KPC was engaged to protect Serbian towns from the rioters alongside KFOR and UNMIK-Police. Every single victim whether Albanian or Serb is one to many.What happened during WWII is painful but has no bearing on the political situation today. I DO not support any kind of violence and beleive it or not you are the first person I am addressing on this site.
The reason being that you sound a reasonable poster.( I apologize in advance to anyone that might take offence since it is not my intention to offend anyone.)
At the same time I can not help but point it out to you, and everybody else, that Kosovo was kept as part of Serbia only by force. Today the situation is completely different. The force is no longer a factor and since this is the case what do the Serbian politicians offer??? THE RETURN OF SERBIAN FORCES IN KOSMET (to protect Serbs and churches in Serbian enclaves)
Who has been doing that for the last eight years? VS?
What I am trying to say is that, unfortunately for both of our people,there are no politicians within Serbia that are truly brave enough to aknowledge the new (old) reality in Kosovo. No matter what the status outcome we CANNOT ignore each other and pretend that everything is finished at that point. We need more people to get involved in this diccussion, without prejudices and without claiming "mythical" rights about and for Kosovo.
Another thing that really bothers me is the fact that Orthodox Monastiries and churches are looked upon as exclusively Serbian. They are part of our history, also, and as such are part of our collective cultural heritage.
I hope you will have a better understanding of my opinion about Kosovo and its people (yes Albanians, Serbs and everybody else that live in Kosovo).
To B92 PLEASE FEEL FREE TO REMOVE ANY WORD, SENTENCE OR PARAGRAPH THAT YOU DEEM MIGHT BE OFFENSIVE FOR YOUR POSTERS.
THANK YOU

“eyewitness clearly indicated that the kids were chased by Serbian youths near by the bridge”

Njazi, that was completely dismissed as rumor, there is no support for that allegation. Personally, I feel repeating lies that led to riots is in the same class as shouting “Fire” in a crowded movie theater. Saying those types of things, especially right now, might possibly be dangerous.

This article was on Serbian victimhood and perception, not the merits of Kosovo Independence. However, I do support partition, I do support reparations and I do support a substantial truth and reconciliation commission.

I know it’s trendy to dismiss our belief system as “myth” these days, but belief systems are always based on “myth” and that doesn’t make them any less valid. I know we owe a debt of gratitude for those Albanian families that protected our Historical monuments during the centuries under the Ottoman yoke, but I highly doubt these monuments mean the same to your people as they do to mine. Personally, I would like to see the Albanian population embrace our Churches and recognize the potential for tourism. I would love to go on a guided tour of them with a member of one of the Albanian families that acted as guardians, that would be really amazing.

WWII most certainly effected what happened in the 90’s. Tito basically clamped down a lid on nationalist feeling and once he was gone, a movement to revitalize the Ustashe started in Croatia under Tudjman. I have family in Krajina, simple village types. They weren’t trying to “steal” land merely for nationalistic reasons, they were in a very real fear of what the Neo-Ustashe would do, and you know what? They were right about Tudjman’s intentions. Croatia is free of Serbs now. I drive through Krajina every year, I know what that area looks like.

Mathew

Well, I'd have to say your responses have been among the more level headed I've read from the "other side".

From your response to Montgomery's #1, it sounds like it's still a bit difficult for you to comment on the role of the Serbian government in Kosovo (you mentioned Croatia instead).

The "disease" Montgomery was talking about is indeed widespread in the Balkans. Serbs aren't the only ones to suffer from it. I'm Albanian (from Albania) and I can tell you that in my history classes (early 80-s) the "Skanderbeg" Nazi Division was never mentioned... but the Commintern efforts were quite prominent there. A quick look at Wikipedia and contemporary press does indeed reveal details about Albanian past and present history that aren't exactly flattering to our image. So as frustrating as it is for me to debate with Serbs here about Kosovo etc, I can sort of understand the moments of "amnesia" they suffer when it comes to certain events in history.

A couple of other points:

I can't speak for Albanians in Kosovo, Macedonia, and Montenegro, but as far as Albania goes, the notion of the "Greater Albania" is not a popular notion with the majority of our population or the political class for that matter. However, we do feel it is the responsibility of the Albanian government to make sure that the rights and concerns of Albanians living in the neighboring countries are respected. Whether the Serbs here like to admit it or not, Serbia committed gross violation of those rights under Milosevic. Hence the support for the Kosovo Albanians cause today.

Peter:

In a democratic society, the press is INDEPENDENT; not partial to whatever the majority desires. In fact, it is the DUTY of the press to expose inconvenient/unpopular truths.

Unfortunately the U.S. itself is not a model example when it comes to press freedom. The likes of FOX News and CNN make sure that the Americans remain ignorant and very partial to situations like Palestine and the Middle East....and very possibly aspects of Serbia's concerns too.

That's why I watch BBC and even force myself to read Serbianna.com on occasion (as much as I despise that site for the blatant partiality).

I'd just suggest that many of the Serbs here start looking at other sources for their information as well. It sucks in the beginning to read inconvenient truths, but it does get easier as you go along. In the end, it's simply a reminder that no one is perfect or holy.

Matthew, are u serious? Serbia is more advanced than Croatia? Obviously u have never been in croatia. glorification of ustasha is inside ur head im afraid. I wont deny that there are people there that have ustasha ideals but at least the topic is debated in Croaita on a daily basis. I have never heard of many croats who are actually horrified at what ustasha did and being raised in croatia, it was quiet offensive to be called that.

However, Im not sure anything is debated in Belgrade, either war in 90's or in particular cetniks in ww2.

As for modern day serbia, the greatest party to win votes in last election is Seselj's party. While in Croatia, the HDZ (Tudjmans HDZ) is in coalition with the serb party there. yeah that makes it less advanced than serbia. I wont even mention recent things like rascially abused croat politician in serb parliament. if these things happened in croatia, they would be called ustasha; if it happens in serbia...lets forget about it, isolated incident.

You say "I believe that with true reconciliation and real reparations, things might move forward in the region.". OK fine, what are u as serbs willing to admit/do to help this reconciliation? Answer, not much apart from denials. And while we are at it, someone is responsible for cold blooded murder of 250,000 croats at Bleiburg after ww2. Lets bring it all out.

Holy Cow, Matthew. Where did you come from. I mean that in a positive way. Most of your comments are right on and all of your comments are thought inspiring. They are even bringing out the more inteligent Non- Serbs in response. Forget William Montgomery for a little while. I am proud of the way you've handeled your self in these comments and the way you've brought out the intelligent side in both Serbs and non-serbs alike.
I am also noticing more constructive arguments and not just Serb-bashing from the Albanian and K-Albanian camp. Who knows, maybe if a few more inteligent voices rise up from all sides, maybe, just maybe, some day...
Keep it up. I am looking forward to more of your comments.

Dear Peter

I stand by my comments about the impartiality of the press even though you chose to call me arrogant for it.
I firmly believe that the job of the press is to state facts and events as they unfold from multiple perspectives so that people may be better informed and as a result make better decisions.

It is not the job of the news press to sugarcoat events so that the readers can feel good about themselves. That's what hobbies, tabloid/celebrity journalism, pot, sex and alcohol are for.

I've read B-92 for a while now and I would characterize its tone as neutral. In my experience other respected publications/media outlets often do print op-eds/letters from writers/readers belonging to the "opposite" camp.

We both live in the States and I wonder whether you watch FOX News:

According to FOX, the mouthpiece of the American "patriot":

1. If you report on abuses in Abu Ghraib, you are anti-military.

2. If you accuse the administration for a lack of planning before going to Iraq, you're not a patriot, because you don't support the troops.

3. If you accuse the administration for falsifying, doctoring, leaking intelligence reports in order to send the country to war, you're not a patriot and you don't support the troops.

3. If you support equal rights for all citizens regardless of their sexual preference, you're immoral and godless.

4. If you don't mention God and Jesus with every other word in a speech, you're immoral and godless.

5. If you spill American blood in Iraq while arming Saudia Arabia (the main sponsor of radical Islam) to the teeth, you ARE a patriot.

6. If you ask for more oversight on surveillance done on your own citizens, you're not a patriot.

7. If you've never yourself served in the military but accuse ones that have done so for cowardice, you ARE a patriot.

8. If you disagree with the administration on anything; energy, budget, debt,... anything at all, you're not a patriot.

9. If you state that the country does have problems and is going in the wrong direction, you hate America and you're not a patriot.

In all fairness, CNN, MoveOn.org, Huffington Post have their own share of sins. They can be just as rabid for the left.

The point is, all of these "news" channels did not critically look at the decisions made by the administration and the opposing Democrats in the past few years. They pandered to the popular sentiment of the day and failed the country in the process by not being daring enough in taking on the politicians.

Please provide some evidence that USA and Germany did not push, cause and fuel Yugo-breaking conflict, and provide evidence that they did not put sanctions on Serbia afterwards. Give evidence also, that says why they are not trying to make Serbia into a WESTERNIA.
(Krncar, 20. August 2007 03:04)

Provided everything you state here is true. Do you still think Serbia and the Serbs have no fault whatsoever for finding themselves in the situation they are in? I always here the Serbs saying it takes two to tango when they talk with Albanians. Now I find from the Serbs themselves that when it comes to them and the west it just takes one to tango and always Serbia is not dancing.

Matthew,

What happened in Krajina was purely driven by fear induced by Milosevic and co saying that Ustasha were forming getting ready to attack Kosovo. The truth is there was only a small amount of people who thought of ustasha but unfortunately the statements of these were used to spread fear in krajina. I was in Croatia at the time and I know that noone spoke of expulsion of serbs. People could only talk of breaking away from Serbia proper. Thats it. period.

As for no serbs in Krajina. Its common knowledge the government of Krajina ordered evacuation several days before Operation Storm. Babic testified to it, there are documents and there is video footage. You can say whatever u like but those are facts while your opinion is id say provided by your parents whose guilt cannot bring them to admit that serbs committed atrocities in name of defence of a threat that didnt really exist. 1000's of non-serbs were killed and 100000-200000 were expuled from Krajina before 1995. Most serbs talk of operation storm as it was the first thing happened in the war in 1991 but there is 4-5 years of history leading up to what happened in 1995.

As for damage in Krajina. What makes u think the homes destroyed are purely serb? Remember population of Krajina was only about 50-55 serb. Does that justify taking whole Krajina as part of Greater Serbia?

Ment,

Point number one was in reference to accepting and laying blame. I used Croatia as an example because I feel they are the worst offenders in the region in this regard. My point was Serbia is further along in admitting their wrongs then Croatia is. All the regions suffer from it, but Croatia is as I said the worst offender. Even if they don’t apologize to the Serbs, they owe a HUGE apology to their “allies” in the war, the Bosniaks. The Croatians seem to really glorify their Ustashe past, and to be honest, I haven’t seen the same sort of glorification of Albania’s WWII role going on. Sure Albanians suffer from it as well, as do Serbs. That’s my point, and what’s so irritating about Montgomery’s comments. We all suffer from it, and I don’t personally think Serbia is the ONLY one who does it as Montgomery is implying. I laid out much of my reasoning on Croatia’s behavior in my earlier posts. My best friend when I lived in Bosnia was a Croatian by the way, so I do judge everyone on their individual merits. Here in the US, anyone from the Balkans naturally feels a kinship, especially once you get to 2nd and 3rd generations. In the US, we’re all just “White Guys”. I grew up a Yugoslav, I didn’t even know about “Montenegrins”, which is how I would identify myself (and Serb of course).

As far as Milosevic’s policies go, he did many of the same dirty tricks to the Albanian population that Tudjman did to his Serbian population, both are disgusting. I do think he had a legitimate right to combat the KLA, but certainly not civilians. Often in insurgencies civilians aid and abet the military, however, that is no excuse for the broad crimes meted out to the population in general. I think the actions that commenced after the NATO bombing were the most reprehensible. The sheer magnitude of the theft and destruction were terrible. However, the actual blood loss was not that severe compare to other regions and other conflicts in the world. What happened at Srebrenica dwarfs all of Kosovo. I believe that with true reconciliation and real reparations, things might move forward in the region. I believe Montgomery’s comments do not motivate Serbs to want to apologize, they certainly just made me feel offended. I get enough of that stuff here in the Western Media, I go to B92 for a more balance version of events.

Ment I post here because I want to hear Albanian opinion, because I want to communicate and understand one another. Regardless of the outcome of the status talks, we must learn to understand one another. We are going to share regional interests in the EU and it would be foolish not to be able to work together on important concerns.

This guy is an American propaganda tool just like B92.
Here is an inconvenient truth about America: Americans rarely speak the truth.

Daniel, thank you for proving my point better then I could make it.

“What happened in Krajina was purely driven by fear induced by Milosevic and co saying that Ustasha were forming getting ready to attack”

I’ve read Tudjman as I’ve said. I know what his stated opinions were. I read his historical theories on WWII. Tudjman and Milosevic were both criminals, the only difference is Serbs have for the most part accepted that Milosevic was a criminal. Tudjman and Operation Storm are celebrated in Croatia.

“What makes u think the homes destroyed are purely serb?”

Well, all the Ustashe graffiti and swastikas on the destroyed homes and Churches are a pretty good indicator. I drive through Krajina every year going from Zagreb airport to Bosnia.

Unfortunately the Croatian-Bosniak war puts a big hole in you guys’ theories on how nice the Croatian government was. Please feel free to discuss Mostar. The Croats have some serious explaining to do.

The band Thompson is still incredibly popular, even your government ministers go to their concerts with their children. They have such classics as “Jasenovac i Gradiška Stara”. Of course their popularity has no bearing on the Croatian public, they just have “nice” music.

“Its common knowledge the government of Krajina ordered evacuation several days before Operation Storm.”

So are you claiming that these Serbian families were not in fear of their lives, that they left Krajina simply because they wanted to make the Croats look bad? It was just some big conspiracy, some Serb plot to make them look like the victims in the eyes of the world? Are you also implying the Serbs destroyed their own homes? I find that as offensive as those who say the KLA or NATO bombs drove the Albanian population out of Kosovo.

“OK fine, what are u as serbs willing to admit/do to help this reconciliation? Answer, not much apart from denials. And while we are at it, someone is responsible for cold blooded murder of 250,000 croats at Bleiburg after ww2. Lets bring it all out”

I support Tadic’s apology to the Croatian people, I support his attendance at the Srebrenica memorial. I try in my own life to apologize for the terrible crimes committed by Serbs against others. I support communication and understanding between us. However, I can not support a Black & White version of events where Serbs were the only bad guys, and everyone else were completely innocent. Clearly more needs to be done on the Serbian side, I agree strongly on that. However, I do not believe its fair to ignore what Tadic has done, he is a very brave and good man.

As far as WWII was concerned, I do believe Tito was firmly in charge of things, if I recall he was sort of a dictator in the region. If I recall many of his policies supported a “Weak Serbia” to make a “Strong Yugoslavia”. You seem to be implying that he was some sort of Serbian stooge, that he was not in control of the government at all. So who had command responsibility for those crimes that occurred at the end of WWII?

I think there are two "Dinos" that write with the same name.
Just for clarification I am the Dino-the-albanian and from now on I will write my name as DinoA (For Dino Albanian). I am not sure the nationality of the other Dino, although I agree with him most of the time. But to relate to the previous post from "Dino" I have never been to Croatia,
so I guess this explain it.
Thanks.

Dear Ment,

You said, "In a democratic society, the press is INDEPENDENT; not partial to whatever the majority desires. In fact, it is the DUTY of the press to expose inconvenient/unpopular truths." Good God Ment, B-92 isn't reporting truth, it is taking its predictable LIBERAL side and when 100% opposed to your citizens opinion, you might need to take a good look in the mirror and ask yourself what is wrong with this picture. You are arrogant in telling your majority readers that they are simply not as smart as you and are wrong. The fact that B-92 ignores the church completely shows its LIBERAL bias and that if Kosovo is lost, B-92 will have some responsibility in turning its back on its own people and church. If you can live with that, you are completely lost. Sramota to all of you!!!!

"I’ve read Tudjman as I’ve said. I know what his stated opinions were. I read his historical theories on WWII. Tudjman and Milosevic were both criminals, the only difference is Serbs have for the most part accepted that Milosevic was a criminal."

They certainly arent criminals on the same level. Tudjman had his opinions in diminishing crimes in ww2, but certainly didnt say masses deserved to be killed. However on another note, which people may want to give their opinion, ustasha would not have happened had not croatia been brutalised pre-ww2 by a serbian king. Im not here vindicating what ustasha did because it was horrible, however ustasha movement did not happen overnight. Cyrilic and serb languages were enforced on croats before ww2 by the serb king.

"Well, all the Ustashe graffiti and swastikas on the destroyed homes and Churches are a pretty good indicator. I drive through Krajina every year going from Zagreb airport to Bosnia." over the last 5 years I have driven through there every year and while I wont deny there are some houses with graffiti, id say 99% arent. so by ur logic, most destroyed homes then arent serb. However at the same time alot of croat homes have been repaired as they came back to Krajina, so therefore alot of evidence of destruction of non-serb homes has been patched up. Im not saying there arent serb homes destroyed but to say there are swastikas and ustasha graffiti all over the place is over gross estimation. maybe u only concentrate on one thing. and since croatia is a bad place, why are u flying to zagreb then, arent u scared of being killed?

"Unfortunately the Croatian-Bosniak war puts a big hole in you guys’ theories on how nice the Croatian government was. Please feel free to discuss Mostar. The Croats have some serious explaining to do." Some explaining Im sure but again, it cant be equated to srebrenica, Bihac, etc. u have to remember croats and bosniaks formed a federation.

As for Thomson, Im not a big fan and many croats are not fans of his ustasha songs. But many arent, which is why he has fans. I havent met anyone thats for sure. and at least there is a debate about it in Croatia.

As for reconciliation, serbia hasnt showed anything. Apology from president is worth nothing since president has no power at all. He was brave for what he did, but Kostunica just said "well thats his opinion". If we are speaking about croatia, at least Mesic and Sanader support each other on all crimes being investigated. Last time I checked, they never defended a crime. If people want to refer to Storm, crimes during storm by individuals is punished. operation itself was legit and arguements on contrary are only really by serbia and thats it.

my point with bleiburg was this: If ALL croats according to serbs were ustasha, then Tito's army must have been non-croat, majority serb....so given that a fair amount of 250,000 were ustasha soldiers, then civilians and soldiers were killed by non-croats in cold murder as there wasnt a battle, as evident by the discovered 200+ mass graves in Slovenia....if titos army was large part croat then croats killed croats so it cant mean that ALL croats are ustasha. My personal take is that most croats were Domobrani but had no leadership and ustasha were much more organised and had therefore the power. but hey thats just my opinion. So therefore if we are going to bring up all unanswered questions in ww2 then lets bring them all out.

Goran, thanks, I do try to have rational discussions with the Albanians here, many are quite moderate if given the chance. I have learned a good deal, and I have changed some of my opinions, and I hope that I’ve done the same for others at times. Even if I strongly disagree with a position, I enjoy a rational discussion of the merits, if only to find any possible holes in something. I got tired of posting everyday the same thing over and over again.

And Carl, you are absolutely correct to support Serbs who speak up about atrocities, especially when they do not give up on Serbian values as well.

Daniel, to be honest, I’m not a big fan of the Serbian Royal Families’ policies either, being Montenegrin and all. I know they did not treat the Croats as full equal citizens especially in government. However, it wasn’t that bad, it most certainly did not merit Jasenovac as a response. It’s my understanding that the Croatians wanted to join with the Serbs as it allowed them to hold off some of the territorial aspirations the major powers in the region had against them.

Tito had an open door policy for “former” Cetniks and Ustashe towards the end of the war, so it may be hard to determine exactly what his final army composition exactly was. I will concede a large portion of his army were Serbs and they probably wanted revenge. However, it would not have happened without Tito’s orders. Tito was most certainly in control. Was it wrong? Yes of course. Was it political or racial or simply brutal revenge? Or a little bit of each? Should I be ashamed as a Serb? I dunno Daniel, I really don’t know. Why don’t we just agree to blame the commies?

I am aware Croat property was destroyed, every single Catholic Church I saw was new, so I know they were all destroyed. Yes, I’ve seen plenty to make me feel uncomfortable. Yes, I have felt discriminated against at times because of my last name. As I’ve said I drive through as my wife’s family lives in Bosnian Krajina now. They used to live on both sides of the Una. Its only a couple hours from Zagreb airport, but crazy far from Sarajevo. I do have blood family in Dubrovnik, our presence there goes back for centuries and we’ve always played an important role in the life of the city. Some of my family have been the highest Judges in Dubrovnik. I’m Dalmatian, I love Croatian culture. I also come from a mixed clan, so I naturally find Albanian society fascinating and enlightening as well.

Operation Storm resulted in the single largest act of Ethnic Cleansing of the wars in the 90’s. That is exactly what it represents to us Serbs. When Croatia celebrates it as a national holiday, all we see are the columns of refugees fleeing for the border. It is pretty insensitive to glory in such an event that means so much to our people. I know how the average Serb from that area felt and what motivated them and what they went through. No media, no politics, just honest simple farmers and villagers. I see the desperation in their eyes, and I know for sure they suffered something no one should have suffered.

You are correct that Mostar wasn’t as bad as Srebrenica. However, I’ve seen Mostar with my own eyes a couple of times. That city is very heavily destroyed. I’ve seen a number of damaged cities and destroyed villages, but Mostar was the worst I personally saw, even more then a decade after the event.

You are also correct that Mostar requires some explaining. I was kind of hoping that maybe you might provide such an explanation, or possibly even an apology to the Bosniak people. I know Srebrenica was wrong and much worse and it is what I’m most shamed of. I support what Tadic did, even if it was “only symbolic” and only one person. I also support his apology to the Croatian people, regardless of whether we get an apology in return. Tadic has the courage to put his entire political career on the line and do what’s right, regardless of what the other side says or does. I do not think Croatia has such a brave politician. That is why Montgomery’s comments are so offensive to me. Can you imagine the Croatian President attending a memorial to the victims of Operation Storm in Belgrade? And issuing an apology to the Bosniak people? Can you image Serbs building bridges named after Milosevic in their main tourist destination? However, I agree you guys do seem to be cooperating more closely with the Hague even if Gotovina decided to go on a little extended vacation for a while. We did cough up Milosevic, the worst of the lot. However, Tudjman had his reputation “saved” by never having to face those same charges. Its too late to dig up some juicy Tudjman quotes, but we’ll talk more later I’m sure. I’ve never understood people who support Milosevic or Tudjman, they worked hand in hand to destroy the lives of everyone in the Balkans. Tudjman was a bad man, Operation Storm was wrong, Mostar deserves an apology.

I do appreciate the well reasoned and articulate points Daniel. Refreshing conversation. I do think Montgomery unwittingly gave us all an opportunity to at least consider what happened and it seemed all sides, Serbs, Albanians and Croats did admit at least some aspects of some things that happened were wrong.

Maybe there is some hope for the future. Try to remember if we can not work out our differences, it will tear apart the EU just as sure as it did Yugoslavia.

Matthew, its important to know the truth and not take a stance and ignore circumstances leading to something. For a start, Krajina evacuation was ordered 3 days prior to Storm. That fact cant be ignored and Im surprised how much it is. It cant also be ignored that this happened in 1995 and that same amount of non-serbs were expelled from Krajina in 4 years before Storm. I understand serbs were afraid, but ethnic cleansing done by forceful removal and removal of population by your own government is different. You may celebrate Storm as you wish but facts about ordered evacuation and facts about non-serb removal from Krajina in 4 years prior to Storm will not simply vanish. I do agree that crimes within Storm need to be investigated and they have been and are continuing. Many of those are revenge killings. However as for Storm being illegal, it will never be regarded as that since Croatia had foreign military within its borders ie. from Serbia proper. If you cant use military when a foreign military is within your borders, then when can you?

Regarding your first comment about Royal Family…no Jasenovac I wont defend….noone can really. But the royal family actions pre ww2 is a direct cause of rise of ustasha. Ustasha was only symbol of resistance to serbanisation of croatia pre ww2. However noone thought ustasha were going to do what they did. Their rise is much like Nazis….noone prior to ww2 thought that Hitler was going to do what he did at Auswitz. Things went too far. Lets not be mistaken, I am not defending what ustasha did…but they were not created overnight. As for croats wishing to join serbs against major powers in ww2….it sounds romantic but from what I gather, I believe many joined because they had no choice. When partisans marched into split and asked people to join them, I don’t think it was a democracy where u were left alone if u said no.

read the other day that Slovenes may have found a mass grave with 15,000 victims from Bleiburg. I guess everyone was a victim as a result of ww2 and 200+ mass graves in Slovenia is a proof. Funnily enough, it never makes serb news given that it was Yugoslavia and all when this occurred.

As for being discriminated, I was discriminated too. In 1980’s I went to Belgrade and was no served at a local shop because I had a wrong accent (Dalmatian). My uncle was a serb married to my aunty and he used to say the only way he will come to visit us in Dalmatia was with tanks. He was a military officer in JNA. Was he joking?

As for Mostar are u sure Bosnian side was destroyed given that majority of Mostar population is and was Croatian. Bet u didn’t know that. If you want to see a city heavily destroyed, have a look at photos of Vukovar. Now that was some levelling.

As for Tadic, I don’t think Mesic has anything to apologise to Tadic given that Croatia didn’t fire a single bullet into its own country. But Tadic’s country did send troops into Croatia. Croatian politicians support crimes to be investigated. Just follow javno.hr for example (its in English). You will see that Mesic and Sanader are not denying anything if it did happen. They don’t protect anyone who has commited a crime.

Your comments that Montgomery’s comments are offensive is interesting given that what he has said is common knowledge among non-serbs. As for EU and Yugoslavia, one thing is that Croatia is advanced along EU lines that Serbia. Serbia has many more issues like Kosovo to deal with and im sure the hidden documents issue will come to light at some stage. Maybe Croatia and Serbia will soon be in EU together. However they will never be part of a same country again. And that is certain and that is best for all.

I suggest going to the website to read this as you can then click on the links.

http://antiwar.com/malic/

What gets me most about this whole article is that nowhere does it claim to be neutral, as so many pundits who write about the Balkans do. Yet somehow in this critique, Montgomery manages to stay neutral, while still portraying a critique. Further credibility can be given to the author due to his earlier piece on Kosovo, where he also criticizes the Albanian side of the conflict.
What also gets me is how the posts of presumably Serbians have proved the points in the article much more than the article itself could have ever done.
Blackbird your post of a "refutation" to this article proves the article even further. It has the premise that the "Serbs are the victims" no matter what. Essentially blame the Ustase,KLA,EU,NATO,American Empire,Western Arrogance,Extremist Islam,etc, without any mention of the incompetences of Serb leadership in the 1990s, such as Seselj,Milosevic,Milan Martic, etc. Who sent up to 8,000 JNA troops to their deaths in Vukovar? Was it the Ustase? Or was it somebody a little closer to home? The article asserts that Croatian seperatism, Alija Izetbegovic's seperatism,etc is to blame for Serbia not being the most powerfull nation in the area (as it could have been). Yet, who refused the Z-4 plan? Who set up the first road blocks? Think logically, has this approach of victimhood worked up until now? Wouldn't it be wiser to adapt to your ideological enemy? Food for thought eh.

Daniel you seem like you represent a fairly mainstream view that is not extremist or pro-Ustashe. Can we assume that how you approach the issue is similar to other educated Croatians?
You opinions on the Croat-Bosniak war are interesting. Keep in mind, this article is mostly about laying blame, victimization, and denial of responsibility.

“Some explaining Im sure but again, it cant be equated to...”

“As for Mostar are u sure Bosnian side was destroyed given that majority of Mostar population is and was Croatian.”

Are you seriously saying the Bosniaks committed the majority of the destruction in Mostar? Anyways, I found this quote about the damage to Mostar, but I’m not positive it’s a truly reliable source.
“A report pulflished in 1995 by the Institute for the Protection of Cultural, Historical, and Natural Heritage of Bosnia-Herzegovina documents the damage and destruction to more than 2,000 culturally significant works of architecture during the war: 1,115 mosques, 309 Catholic churches, 36 Serbian Orthodox churches, and 1,079 other public buildings.”
http://www.haverford.edu/relg/sells/mostar/Mostartransition.html

So nearly 4 times as many mosques were destroyed than Catholic Churches.

All the following quotes are from the ICTY indictment against Mladen Naletilic and Vinko Martinovic. I feel the ICTY is a fairly solid source.

http://www.un.org/icty/indictment/english/nal-ai01204e.htm

“The population of the municipality of Mostar prior to the beginning of the conflict (1991 official census) was composed of 126, 628 inhabitants, of which 43,856 (34.6%) were Muslims; 43,037 (33.9%) were Croats; 23,846 (18.8%) were Serbs; 12.768 (9.9%) were Yugoslavs; and 3,121 (2.4%) were others.”

So slightly more Muslims, for whatever that means. Croats are a majority there now, but that really isn’t something to be proud of I don’t think.

“The Croatian Community of Herceg-Bosna (HZ H-B) proclaimed its existence on 18 November 1991, and claimed to be a separate or distinct "political, cultural, economic and territorial whole" in the territory of Bosnia and Herzegovina. Its purposes included, inter alia, the establishment of closer ties with the Republic of Croatia. These aspirations, which were supported by the Republic of Croatia, were evidenced by the HZ H-B’s use of the Croatian currency and the Croatian language and the granting by the Republic of Croatia of Croatian citizenship to Bosnian Croats.”

Sounds like Tudjman was alleged to have been involved.

“Beginning simultaneously in April 1993, in the Herzegovinian municipalities of Stolac, Capljina and Mostar, the HVO carried out the arrest of prominent Bosnian Muslims and imposed different measures of persecution against the Bosnian Muslim population, such as dismissals from work positions and public service, discrimination in the delivery of humanitarian aid, attacks against Bosnian Muslim houses and properties, and imposition of Croat language and education.”

“Across the confrontation line, the ABiH held section of the city was under siege by the HV and HVO forces, who were shelling intensely the area and preventing the arrival of humanitarian aid and basic supplies.”

“The goal of this campaign by the HV and HVO forces, commonly referred to as "ethnic cleansing", was to gain control of the municipalities of Mostar, Jablanica and others in Bosnia Hercegovina and to force the Bosnian Muslim population to leave these territories or to substantially reduce and subjugate this population. The means used for this purpose included killings, beatings, torture, evictions, destruction of cultural and religious heritage, looting, deprivation of basic civil and human rights, and mass expulsions, detentions and imprisonments, all of them executed following a systematic pattern of ethnic discrimination. As a result of this campaign, tens of thousands of Bosnian Muslims abandoned Mostar, Jablanica and other municipalities in Bosnia Hercegovina. The traditional ethnic diversity of these municipalities was virtually eliminated, and an ethnically homogeneous society and institutions were imposed in these areas.”

There’s a whole bunch of individual crimes listed if you want to read it.

Seriously Daniel, the Croatians do have some explaining to do. Strangely enough, Croatians suffered by far the lowest per capita causality rate. While Serbs died in only slightly lower proportion to their population (30% according to the ICTY) the Croats had a rate half their population distribution. Something to think about. Clearly the Bosniaks suffered the most. Maybe just maybe Daniel, we both owe them an apology?

I concede the Serbs have been under immense pressure to do the things that Tadic has done and that may have helped in the process. However, I believe actions such as Tadic’s should be applauded and supported, not forgotten and dismissed. He did a brave thing and the international community sidelined him. It seems every time we satisfy a request, like sending Milosevic to the Hague, the West just demands more.

I support Tadic and condemn Milosevic. You are right that Milosevic turned his back on the Serbs in Krajina and abandoned them to be cleansed. However, I know way too many refugees to believe it was some plan by Serbian civilians to make the Croats look bad. These are just poor simple folk. Farmers types. They wouldn’t leave all that behind for nothing, just because Belgrade told them to. They need the land to farm, to make a living. That’s a big thing to give up. Its not Belgrade that is keeping them from returning. They aren’t very sophisticated, they are just scared of the Ustashe, they are just frightened, and still are. Most likely not many will ever return.

“As for Tadic, I don’t think Mesic has anything to apologise to Tadic given that Croatia didn’t fire a single bullet into its own country.”

Anyways, like I said, I support an apology to your people regardless of whether you officially return the courtesy. Even if you don’t maybe someone else will?

Nothing in this article that I'd want to change, maybe add more but I won't.

This article basically says, "wake up Kosova is lost," and also "please do make sure to visit Kosova." LOL

Just look at the reactions coming from the Serbs here. Do they accept anything from the article? The answer is no, and that is fine. There is nothing wrong with it. However they go further by accusing Montgomery and the United States. That was one of the inconvenient truths in the article. The Serbs accuse everyone in the world about their situation. That way Serbia or the Serbs are never guilty. The world and external factors are always guilty for what happens in Serbia.

I applaud B92 for posting such an objective and daring article. I agree with the points presented 100%. But I do not think that such fine penmanship will do anything to sway the Serbian beliefs in being the perfect victims, and that everything is the fault of their neighbors. The Milosevic regime, and many other regimes preceding it, have worked too hard to ingrain the Serbian mind with those ideas. It is now virtually impossible for Serbs to see things in any other way. Most of the comments which will be posted in response to this article will demonstrate as much.

I am not going to writte anything, since the article speaks for itself.
It hits the nail in the head.
Truth is harsh, but is much harsher when you dont realize it.

As far as writting the name Kosovo or Kosova it really does not matter, either way it seems that is gone from Serbia.
Again sooner this is realized it wont be as harsh!

To the moderator of B92: I see you have deleted a lot of my postings that were written in the past. Its OK.
Its your blog. Thank You.

**PEACE**

I love how B-92 pretends to know EVERYTHING about democracy and yet you are completely ingnorant about its most simple principles. I am an American and can inform you first hand that A representative government DOES and SHOULD reflect the majority opinion of its citizens and if the majority of Serbs want to keep Kosovo than THEY ARE the true democratic voice and NOT B-92 who has no feeling or regard for its own genesis. It is obvious that you have learned your idea of democracy from the likes of Liberal American Democrats who spew the same self defeating nonsense that you do in America. The only reason why American Liberals want to give Kosovo away is that the whole mess was Bill Clinton's idea to begin with. Like you, American Liberals don't like their own country, they hate their military, they call those who are patriotic and love their country "Nationalist" (as if defending your country is something bad), they don't believe in capitalism, they LOVE socialism and they have a thinly vieled dislike of Christianity to the point of wanting to see Islam harm it. Your attitude of willingness to give up Kosovo shows that you (B-92)have lost your identity as true Serbs and indeed want to be know as a European Union member which is NOTHING to be proud of. Just ask yourself if separatists were ever to try and take away America's cradle of democracy, Washington D.C. and become independent if the United States would ever give up their cradle of national being. In your lust to become nebulous Europeans you are willing to give away a large part of your own country and the genesis of your nationality. Actually, other than high placed world politicians with an agenda, the world is indifferent to you and doesn't care. Do you envision Italy giving up the Vatican in Rome, France giving up Paris, England giving up London or any other scenario of like significance ever happening?? AT B-92 you wish to be EU people so bad that your are willing to sacrifice the genesis of your Serbian identity to be an EU club member. The Serbian Government and vast majority are 100% correct in holding on to what is rightfully theirs and perhaps YOU should move to Pristina and fight along with the Albanians to steal Independence from your own government. In their gratitude to you afterward the Albanians will kill you and nobody will care.

Go, bre, William, and sell your extraordinary wits all around America, teach them lessons on democracy, giving up nationalism, and stopping the crusades you do all over the world.

Serbians are more nationalistic than Albanians, or for that matter, Americans? That is not even close to being true. No nation is more nationalistic than America, but the Albanians are a very close second. And the reason Serbs are not visiting Kosovo is not because they don't want to, but because they don't want a bullet in the back of their head.

Right on target Mr. Montgomery! No one could have said the truth better. However, don't expect any agreeable comments from Serbs.

Oh Mihail More, nobody can write 100 or even one inconvenient truth about Albania. Because, for your info, on contrary with Serbia, Albania has not 300.000 victims of innocent slovenians, croatians, bosnians and albanians at hers conscience. And, on contrary of the 7 million serbs of the Balkans, the 7 million albanians of the Balkans have not any giantist syndrome, or the feeling they are the lords, the others should serve them.
As for the article of mr.Montgomery, I think he overestimates a bit the serbs, when he talks about Serbia being an important country in the region, Belgrade being a dynamic town or good opportunities of Serbia to join the "go ahead right to the EU and NATO" Balkan countries club such as Albania, Croatia or even Macedonia.
Take care.

To Matthew
Sir,the fact that you completely try to condone the crimes commited in Ex-Yu in the name of Serbian people does not do you any credit, Sir. It is true that Mr. Tadic did aplogize (was it to Bosniaks or to Croats?)for the crimes commited on their behalf, I mean Serbs. But the fact remains that even today there are slogans such as "NOZ, ZICA, SREBRENICA". The same applies when you claim that Albanians are immigrants from Albania and that Kosovo is heart of the cradle of Serbian civilization. If that is the case than why Serbian population (same as Alabanians) live in misserable conditions and why for heaven's sake there are so few Serbs in Kosovo??? I am not even mentioning the catastrophic blood shed that took place in Kosovo only eight years ago. You have to keep in mind that besides regular police forces (MUP)and the army (VJ) there were a lot of other paramilitary units who came down to Kosovo and commited horrible crimes in the name of Serbian people. And then again there is nobody in Serbia (I mean within the gvmt)that will addmit that smth was wrong
with the way Kosovo crisis was handled. I am not trying to blame or abolish no one but if you think that your neighbours (read Western countries)should SEE that you are truly a peaceloving nation and an important ally, You do need to put a real effort in it and prove it with facts and not threats. As far as Albanians are concerned, we are not angels, but at the same time evrything we did was impossed on us by the treatment we got during the last century. During the '80s we wanted to be an equal republic with the rest of YU. Who decided to send the tanks against us??? I am trying to tell you Sir that the Albanians, Croats and the others are not to be blamed for the misfortunes that happened to Serbian people, but the actions of your own policitians made for yesterdays allies to be seen as enemies today.

It's amazing to see the reactions of the Serbs to this article. It proves Montgomery's point better than Montgomery ever dared to hope. A few weeks ago when he wrote Ten truth on Kosovo he was applauded and received compliments and was proclaimed a hero and what not. Now he seems to have lost the Serbs forever. Rather than looking at the arguments he puts forward and discuss them rationaly, the reactions of most were emotional. All were quick to point out that the US has many more problems etc, conveniently forgetting that that was not what he was writting about. The article was about Serbia's problems guys and whether you agree with his assesment or not you can at least counter his arguments by putting forward counter arguments and not commenting on his hiden agendas and other nonsense like that which goes to show how objective you guys really are. Thank God Kosovo is forever free of people like these who think of themselves as untouchables.

I applaud Mr.Montgomery's rational thought in this article. He is honest, un-biased, objective and most importantly well informed. He has provided the reader with a rational diagnosis of the Serbian nation. The inconvinient truth should have been realised by Serbian people a long time ago. It is also a shame that they will not accept that Kosova is independent sooner or later..
Peace in the Balkans!!!

A few inconvenient truths about you, Mr. Ambassador:
You are not new to the Balkans, but were posted here in the 70's. Your clearly pro-State Department anti-Serb stance seeps through in even your most eloquant prose.
Facts:
The bulk of the officer corps of the JNA were not Serbs, but Croats and Slovenes, many of whom conspired to break up Yugoslavia while their idealistic Serb comrades were still saying "bratsvo and jedinstvo."
Milosevic's actions in KosMet did not create the crisis there, but rather those of Tito, who pandered to Albanian expansionism by allowing unmitigated immigration, and the repression of Serbs at the advance of Albanian culturo-centrism. His speech in Gazimestan did not ignite wars, but rather falsely promised Serbs protection from increasing persecution.
The Croats were well prepared for a violent separation, one that your government supported. Moreover, the Senate Foreign Policy Appropriations Bill of 1989 clearly states that Your Government planned even then to strangle Yugoslavia economically, and support the soon to be separatist republics.
Indeed, you admit the multi-cultural, multi-denomination and tolerant nature of Serbs and Serbia, yet you seem dumbfounded why they would not want to be a minority in anyone elses state. Look at how they have been treated there by Croats, Bosnian muslims and KosMet Albanians since 1990- present. Not to mention the past.
Unfortunately, Serbs are the least nationalist of all the Balkan peoples, much to their detriment. Until they return again to their Serbian culture and Christian souls, which Your Country did a fine job of pillorying and destroying by making both a crime, they will forever be blown in by the winds of Western diktat into not only doing, but believing, what foreign intruders say to and about them.
Serbian people rightly view themselves as the primary but not exclusive victims of Western and local aggressions. But even much of the local Serbian press espouses your Government's line about sole Serbian culpability. Apparently you will not be satisfied until they all accept complete guilt and happily commit collective suicide.
There are so many more real facts, but I think our readers get the point.
Nice Try, again.

hahaha, its quite ironic how the very serbs who are attacking Montgomerys piece and USA, are the very ones who are confirming Montgomeries points and inconvinient truths about Serbia!

Lot of posters here are showing the symptoms of the 'disease' that Montgomery described.

Instaed of rationaly countering his points, many here are attacking Montgomery for being american, biased, and attacking USA, and claiming how it was all CIA's fault for the crimes serbs commited. (Sypmtoms of point 1#).

Its scary how this is so obvious and blatant to anyone apart from serbs!

Prime example is Montenegro and Montenegriens: throughtout the history they were closest of allies to the serbs, but still they wanted independence from the nationalistic 'disease' of Serbia. But let me guess, it was the CIA agents that voted for independence in Montenegro!!

Mr. Montgomery does not have a clue about Kosovo and Metohija. Kosovo and Metohija (you do not even know proper name) does not look like as a property for sale.
Mr. Montgomery, you can’t sell the roof of the house separate from whole house. It is possible in the case when house have been demolish only. What you want (and some like you) is to demolish Serbia.
Mr. Montgomery, I am from Australia, and even from so far away or call it “down under”, if you prefer, I could understand what’s happening on Kosovo and Metohija more than you. Mr. Montgomery the grab-time (colonisation) is over. Even here in Australia we are working on return of Aboriginal land to proper ownership.
By the way, personally I do not like persons that take rights to judge other people, especially proud nations such as Serbs. Who give you the rights?

As an American, ex-diplomat and educated man Mr. Montgomery should know that the USA Law System characterizes the trial by public opinion as unacceptable, and that invocation of a verdict by the public opinion trial does not help his case. Serbs know exactly what happened to them and their families during dismemberment of the Former Yugoslavia. They do not need an American to tell them what happened. We vividly remember the picture of another American ambassador (Peter Galbraith) riding on the Croatian tank entering the UN protected zone called Kraina in clear violation of the UN resolutions with obviously full backing of the American government, which marked the beginning of the most successful operation of ethnic cleansing in the wars of the Former Yugoslavia Desolation. Serb live with the consequences of this criminal act and many others, which are intentionally overlooked by Mr. Montgomery. Thanks to Mr Holbrook yet anther American ambassador’s (Robert Frasier) statement, relating to the ethnic cleansing of Kraina is on the record: "Dick: We 'hired' these guys [i.e., Tudjman and the Croatian military leaders] to be our junkyard dogs because we were desperate. We need to try to 'control' them. But this is no time to get squeamish about things."

#1.

“While this same "disease" is prevalent everywhere in the former Yugoslavia, it has remained stronger - and a more important factor - in Serbia than almost anywhere else. It is rare to find any Serb, for example, who does not totally blame…”

Mr. Montgomery, you seem to over look the fact that Tadic attended the 10 year anniversary of Srebrenica and offered an apology to the Croatian people for the crimes committed in the name of the Serbian people. The fact is Serbia is light years ahead of the other Balkan countries in accepting what their mistakes were. Croatia celebrates their worst crime, Operation Storm, as a national holiday and names bridges after Tudjman. The Albanians and Croatians celebrate their criminals as heroes, while Serbs have fully embraced the fact that Milosevic was a criminal. While I agree more needs to be done, you are ignoring the progress the other countries have made.

You are probably confusing a desire to set the record straight and correct earlier inaccurate reporting as an attempt to lay the blame completely on others. Serbs more then any other people in the Balkans desire for the whole truth to come out. The fact is massive distortions of the truth such as 100,000 Albanians being murdered by the Milosevic regime before the start of the NATO bombing are still repeated in the Western Media to this day. The reality is Serb crimes are well exposed in the media, while crimes against Serbs often go unreported. We Serbs have an obligation to ensure our victims are not forgotten.

You do Tadic, and so many moderate Serbs like us, a great disservice by dismissing us as non-existent. Its exactly these types of one-sided statements that drive the Serbian population as a whole into a more nationalistic mind set.

Its simply astounding to make such a claim on a moderate website such as B92, which now has broad popular appeal among much of the Serbian population and is the most trusted source of news in the region. Are you actually making the claim that B92 doesn’t exist either?

#2.

You blame the perception of victim hood on the retention of power by nationalistic elements in Serbia. You blame Serbian politicians for not doing more to combat nationalism, yet ignore the role played by the West in demonizing all Serbs as whole, which you are continuing to do. The fact is the West supported Operation Storm instead of condemning it as they should have. The fact is the West continually lied about and exaggerated the crimes being committed in Bosnia, Croatia and Kosovo. Yet when respected organizations such as the ICTY correct these lies, it goes unreported and ignored by the West. The fact is the West agreed to respect Serbia’s territorial integrity in order to stop the violence in Kosovo, yet has consistently refused to implement the agreed upon conditions set out in UN Resolution 1244. Dindic sacrificed his very life in the struggle against nationalism in Serbia, and Tadic has consistently done his best to do what is right, yet instead of supporting them and praising them, you deny Serbs like them even exist. When you demonize a people as a whole and label them collectively guilty, do not expect them to embrace you as friends when at the same time you are slandering their good name. Its no wonder the Serbian people as a whole greatly distrust the West.

The most effective way for the West to combat “nationalism” in Serbia is to live up to their promises and agreements and to support those elements of Serbian society that are desperately trying to reform the country. This would show the Serbian people that the West are a people that can be negotiated with, and maybe even trusted. You can not build friendships and relationships with a people who do not trust you.

#3.

“The West viewed the downfall of Milošević as repudiation by the Serbian people of the actions he and his government took during the decade of the 1990s.”

This is absolutely correct, but all it proves is the West has a very poor understanding of how the Balkans function. You continue this misunderstanding by claiming the Serbs voted Milosevic out of office because they wanted “to obtain Western assistance and support.”

The Serbs were tired of being demonized and being misunderstood. They wanted change for the better. They wanted Western objectivity in handling issues in the Balkans. Yet despite throwing Milosevic out, and sending him to the Hague, Western treatment, attitudes and perceptions of Serbians and Serbia have not changed one bit. The West must respond to, acknowledge and support elements of Serbian society that demand change, instead of claiming they don’t exist or are merely “rare”.

Serbia’s position historically, geographically and traditionally has been of one between East and West, yet you demand that we look only to the West, or you will deem us undemocratic and nationalist. This needs to change.

#4.

“the fact is that if Serbia would have played its cards correctly, it could have remained the most dominant country in the region.”

Croatia and Slovenia have always been much more Western in outlook and feel with a much more “developed” sense of Capitalism. Possibly Serbia could have retained the UK’s support had they been smarter in how they presented their Public Relations, however Germany’s support has always been with Croatia, and Germany is the EU basically. Maybe you’d want to examine the effect Germany’s recognition of Croatia’s independence (despite the strong objections of the UN) had on the break up of Yugoslavia and its potential “peaceful transition”. The West is doing exactly the same thing in Kosovo by ignoring the recommendations of World Institutions and threatening to act unilaterally.

#5.

You do not seem to understand how a multiparty system works, its very different from a two party system like in the US. Essentially, Serbia has a three party system. The Left (Tadic), the Middle (Kostunica) and the Right (The Radicals). You act as though the Left and Middle out to outlaw political thought and banish the Right from politics in Serbia. Parties like the Radicals will continue to appeal to certain segments of Serbian society as long as the West continues to demonize the Serbs as a whole. Eliminating or banishing the radicals at this time would only result in further radicalization of the population, a reversal of democracy, and the appearance of possibly more extreme political parties.

#6.

You seem to forget that one million Serbs attended the 600th Anniversary of the Battle of Kosovo, that is a significant proportion of the Serbian population.

You then go on to say “It is precisely this ongoing drama which is preventing Serbia from coming to terms with its past.” as if somehow granting Kosovo independence would help build trust with the Serbian people?

The reality is, no matter how you state it, the West wants to carve up Serbia, and you can not claim to be friends of the Serbian people at the same time you want to tear out the very heart of the cradle of our civilization. Its sad, but true, and you can not have it both ways.

#7.

Yes, there is a HUGE difference in the culture, education and economic levels between the rural areas and the cities. Its like that everywhere in the world.

#8.

OK, I’ll buy it.

#9.

“The only explanation I have is that the minorities in Serbia have accepted that they have very limited political power or influence and the Serbs, as a people, find that extremely difficult to do.”

The ONLY explanation I have is that in those regions that experienced violence (Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo) the Serbs have in the recent past been victims of GENOCIDE during WWII. Slovenia, Macedonia and Montenegro experienced no problems because traditionally the Serbian population were not endangered by those populations. In addition, much of Tudjman’s message reminded Serbs of the Ustashe and what we suffered then. The Jews would most certainly act in a very similar manner if threatened by German Neo-Nazi’s. I agree that Milosevic acted in a most barbarous manner and those crimes should be strongly condemned, but to completely ignore the root causes of the violence is extremely disingenuous and insulting.

#10.

“The conditionality imposed instead made it far harder for democratic governments to function and contributed to the resurgence of nationalism.”

You even confuse “nationalism”, anti-westernism and democratic values with one another. They are all absolutely separate beliefs, and one does not exclude the other. Nationalism is merely the extreme of democracy. Calling Anti-Western sentiments as undemocratic is hypocrisy at its height…

1. The overwhelming majority of Western people have a totally different perception of events in the region over the past twenty years than the people who actually lived through them. While this same "ignaorance" is prevalent everywhere in the former Yugoslavia, it has remained stronger - and a more important factor - in the West than almost anywhere else.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to find any Kosovo Albanian, for example, who does not totally blame the Serbs and only Serbs for all the troubles there. The same is true for the overall breakup of the former Yugoslavia, whereby all the responsibility lies with the Serbs.

Do I need to continue?

with articles like this, B92 is disqualifying it´s own credibility.

in a time, when it is about defending serbian sovereignty against a brutal fascist-like ideology of a greater albanian state, against Albanians burning down centuries old cultural heritage..., bringing up articles like this is just a nice example how great US-influence is in the B92-bureaus.
free media, western democratic style, of course.

He who pays the piper, calls the tune, as they say.

perhaps, B92 should bring articles with relevant information rather than garbage like this.
Bravo B92-guys, the Albanians applaud you and you can really be proud of yourselves.

Usually I enjoy reading Montgomery's opinion pieces, believing them to be at least reasonably well informed even when I disagree with some of the content. This one however has little to recommend it and demands a response. Matthew ably made most of the points that came to my mind as I read the article, and thank you Michael Moore for pointing out the incredible hypocrisy in Montgomery's statements.

Since the factual points have been made, I will share a few anecdotal counterpoints, as a Canadian with no blood ties to any Balkan country, but many friends from all parts of former Yugoslavia. I have to say that I know many Serbs who readily admit the faults of their own side. In fact of all the ethnic groups involved in the destruction of Yugoslavia, I find Serbs as a group, to be the most open-minded and the most interested in understanding the truth. The only rabid nationalists that I have had the misfortune to meet were from Croatia and Kosovo (Albanian ethnicity).

As an example of the complexity of the political leanings in Serbia, it seems useful to share one particular story. When I visited Serbia a couple of years ago, I happened to spend an evening at the home of a Muslim woman, originally from Bosnia, who is married to a Serb, and her neighbours who spent the evening socializing with us, were a Croat man and his Serbian wife. The Muslim woman noted that she would vote for the Radicals in the next election because she saw them as the only ones who would not sell out Serbia to western interests. When asked if she had ever experienced prejudice from her Serb neighbours or employers, she said that she never had. Her Croat neighbour declared that he would not live in any other part of former Yugoslavia because people in all of the other republics were too intolerant and racist.

In Serbia, I heard much black humour about the bombardment. Montgomery conveniently omitted mention of the bombardment that destroyed the infrastructure of Serbia and killed civilians; volunteers working in hospitals that became bomb targets, for example; and workers in factories that had nothing to do with the military, but simply had the misfortune to be Serbian owned. Schools were destroyed and apartment buildings. It is amazing to me how strong the recovery has been, following the destruction. It was also amazing to me to discover how open and friendly the people of Serbia were, knowing that I came from a country that had been bent on their destruction.

I get very tired of the Serb-bashing among the comments on this site, and it is particularly disturbing when it is done by someone like former Ambassador Montgomery, who clearly knows better.

Here is my own list of inconvenient truths:
1) The US foreign policy is anti-Serbian due to well funded albanian, croatian, and bosnian muslim lobby groups. If there is to be peace in the balkans, Serbia must be treated fairly.
2)Present day Kosovo is an apartheid state where minorities have no rights. Giving the reward of a greater albania simply because of the threat of violence is highly illegal and even more immoral.
3) Russia, China, India, Indonesia, South Africa, Greece, Cyprus, Spain, Portugal, Slovakia, Belarus....these are just some of the countries opposed to the creation of greater albania. Do the math, that is most of the world population already, therefore despite all the propoganda, MOST of the world is with the Serbs on this issue, with more jumping aboard every day.
4) The 'Racak Massacre' was a hoax, staged, used to justify the illegal 78 day bombing of Serbia. The US bombed the wrong side - as General Lewis Mackenzie has indicated.
5) The only real genocide that happened in the recent wars is in Krajina and Kosovo, where the Serbian population has almost disappeared. The US played a DIRECT role in both cases, and Richard Hollbrooke and Madeline Albright belong in the Hague for both crimes.
6) Russia will veto any attempt to illegally amputate a part of Serbia. Therefore, greater albania will not happen legally.
7) Unilateral recognition of greater albania will lead to unilaterl recognition of Republika Srpska by Russia, followed by other countries. Count on it.
8) Northern Kosovo will remain Serbian, no matter what scenario happens.
9) Serbia is the most multiethnic and tolerant country in the Balkans.
10) Serbs are a smart, proud people and know the truth (see above). Bombarding them with lies and propoganda will not work. Dollars will not buy them.
11. Kosovo is Serbia.

While to some degree Montogomery makes the point, it's very sad that he is not able to step away from American Officialdom.
Same old story goes here, Serbian blood-thirsty nationalist (surrounded by lamb-like Croats, Muslims and Albanians) are to blame for everything.
I don't wish to comment in particular on this article. It's been covered in "Parallel universes and self-fulfilling prophecies".
Problem is that most people don't want to take an honest look at what had happen in former Yugoslavia. Montgomery included.
It's truth that a great number of Serbs blame the others for everything and don't want to accept any responsibility of the Serbs for anything. The fact is, there is a lot of things for which Serbs should be blamed.
The fact is also that there is a lot of things for which others should be blamed, too.
In my oppinion the surrounding is lagging behind when it comes to this. It's maybe normal, nobody is blaming them for anything.
I could comment on few more things, but what's the point?
We will remain in our parallel universes.

His former Excellency has actually offerred a pretty accurate description of facts, most of them of significance for the current U.S. administration. It's called a brief. And it might be inconvenient to him and his bosses, it's up to them.

U.S. has essentially failed to secure the southern part of Eurasian area of [chess table] and the barbarians are [comming together], while even and the barbarians are [the tax income] is not secured.

What's good for us, Serbs, about this "incovenience" is that we are in win/win situation.

If U.S. push for unilateral recognition of Kosovo outside U.N.S.C., we'll have divided Kosovo with our troops in at least some parts of it, with the backing of Russia and other countries of growing free world and we'll be waiting for further deterioration of U.S. hard-pressure over divided E.U. We won't become member of NATO, since it would ruin our claim over Kosovo, while K-Albanians would learn what "the Taiwanization" means and how tought such a life would be.

If U.S. abandon the present policy of supporting unilateral recognition of Kosovo outside U.N.S.C., we'll rightfully attribute it to the Russian support. Again, we of course wouln't become member of NATO.

You former Excellency, you had your chance. You finally blew it for the reasons you briefly listed in your opinion. No spin doctors are able to justify your "principles", amounting from expulsion of Krajina Serbs to expulsion of Kosovo Serbs and grab of our land. The same principles should have been applied everywhere in former Yugoslavia. Now it's obvious your single principle was to decimate us, the Serbs, and to have us as the largest nation in the Balkans having the smallest state.

You've lost us for good.

Teni, I think you hit the nail on the head. Its funny how William is seen this week compared to last week and more importantly why.

However what he has written is not anything new, its what is well known to anyone from ex SFRJ. Truth in Belgrade has always been difficult to accept and its unfortunate that it will continue to be as it will bring more misery to everyone in Balkans, including the serbs. its unfortunate.

To Save Kosovo

In your dreams!!!

I read Montgomery making reference to Kosovo, not Kosova. When Albanians write in English, why do they interject Albanian spellings? I wouldn't say I'm going to Wein, Austria for the weekend - I would say Vienna, because I am writing in English. Is this just a petty way to try and annoy Serbian commentators? Anyway, I would like to ash Mr. Montgomery what is wrong with being a Nationalist? Don't all citizens that around the world that want to preserve their land and cultures belong to this group. I believe in the USA they are called Patriots. Why has the West made being Nationalistic bad? Long live Serbia! Oops, I guess I wasn't politically correct there.

William we have heard this backwards logic from your politicians for a long time and we've learned to tune it out.

The situation in the country is improving greatly and we are glad to look towards the Russia and the East rather than the corrupt mafioso that controls the West.

He doesn't seem to know what he wants.

Just look at number 7

" Moreover, the privatization, which took place in Serbia, has been the most successful perhaps in all of the countries undergoing democratic transition."

Then,

"There is a growing gap between a large body of relatively impoverished people (including pensioners, unemployed and people in the economically-depressed regions) and a smaller percentage of people who are economically well off."

When was the last time he has been to the US?
In one hand he always is in favour of free-market economy, in other "impoverished people", "groving gap" , "handful of economically well-off", etc.
Are you for or against free market economy?
The rest of it is beyond comment, so I'll just save some space here.
Just to mention one example.

"At the same time, Serbia itself is extremely multi-ethnic and multi-religious. "
In the same time he kept writing about need for Serbia to "repudiate nationalism" and come to "terms with its past".
Does Croatia, for example need to "repudiate nationalism" ? No, glorifiying WW2 Nazies is stil normal there. Sugar bag with Hitler's image, anyone?
I guess it goes with "historical background more conducive to Western democratic processes" that exist in Croatia and Slovenia.
I could go on, but this really isn't worth it.
Instead, I can only suggest to B92 to make some space for a simmilar "oppinion article" of some former Russian Ambassador. There is too many Westerns on this site, fuelled by their "peace-loving genes" giving oppinions and advices to everybody. All in the name of demokracy, of course. One look at Latin-America will reveile to anyone that they are not about establishing democracies. How many generals and their brutal regimes they've brought to power? Where have we seen genuine interest in human rights there? Guatemala?

Even though I can argue how most of the points Mr Montgomery has mentioned are not backed up by facts and are flawed with omissions of WHY exactly Serbs feel mistreated (eg Krajina and the Selective US policy) I would like to argue the point that if anyone wrote the inconvinient truths about the USA, there would be a much larger list. As a world leader US has to set examples however US has more social issues than most of the world. Racisam, poverty, inequality and many others rule the country which prides itself on being free. So can someone please publish the article on 100 inconvinient truths about the US or Albania and dont stop there you could probably write just as many for any country in the world. Why are Serbs always the target. Its the hypocrasy that kills me!

this looks to be something that Clinton, Albright and Holbroke wrote....B92 is an embarassment to all Serbians.

I absolutely expected article like this from Mr Montgomery because he took lot of hell from people in high places for previous article I am sure. I am also certain that MR Montgomery wish that he never wrote the previous article because he showed Serbs in better light than he usually does and K Albaniens for what they realy are. Too late Mr Montgomery-cat is out of the bag.

I'd like to know how many ordinary Serbs Montgomery mixes with - away from cyncial politicians posturing about one matter or another. And of course from his perspective Serbs seem like nationalists. This is part of the (rational/irrational) game plan - to persuade outsiders that every Serb is obsessed with their 'Jerusalem'. If outsiders / Westerners swallow this they may back down on supporting Kosovo independence.

Quite contrary to his view that Serbian politicians cannot be brave in confronting the Serbian population with harsh truths, it is the politicians with their quasi intellectuals and supporters in the media that helped create the lack of serious debate on the Kosovo issue.

Well spotted that the Serbs voted Milosevic out primarily because of their economic situation. Then it also follows that the popularity of the Serb Radical Party is at least partly due to their social policies (ie opposing reform / transition and all that comes with it) so its not necessarily nationalism or victimhood here. Its about opposing policies that will negatively affect your future.

Supporting Kosovo remaining within Serbian borders is not evidence of nationalism. Nationalism of the type you mean is one that grants rights to ones own community but ignores the rights of others. For sure within the 'Kosovo staying within Serbia' camp there are people that see the issue is zero sum terms but some dont support Kosovo staying within Serbia on nationalistic grounds.

Your 4th point is partly correct but you have to bear in mind again that it was not the people that caused conflict it was politicians and their followers.

"it is now being seen as a concrete example of how the International Community ignores international law to suit its own purposes and demonstrates its prejudice against Serbia and overall hypocrisy"

And lets be honest isnt this true? It might be useful to consider why people believe this.

"There is a growing gap between a large body of relatively impoverished people (including pensioners, unemployed and people in the economically-depressed regions) and a smaller percentage of people who are economically well off. "

Quite, but with all due respect its the system that you support - capitalism that is creating these differences. Ironic that this system is actually increasing the amount of support for the Radical Party.

Its fair enough to look at domestic reasons for certain behaviour etc but without taking a look at the larger picture - the 'principles' of the international community and the way Serbia's neighbours behave one can easily draw the wrong conclusion about Serbs from your piece.

Dearest William, as a Serb I would like to visit Kosovo, I really would. But the thought of being chased by wild Albanian mobs who sense a 'Slavic' language within their midst is a real setback for me.
If you can promise me that I will experience no kicking or spitting, then I would love to visit my spiritual homeland.

“To Matthew
Sir,the fact that you completely try to condone the crimes commited in Ex-Yu in the name of Serbian people does not do you any credit”

How? By calling Milosevic a criminal (twice) and strongly condemning his actions as barbarous? By applauding Tadic’s efforts to build reconciliation and apologize?

I do not condone Serbian crimes, I’ve admitted them.

“The same applies when you claim that Albanians are immigrants from Albania.”

I have NEVER not once done anything of the sort ever. Its truly sad you can not tell the difference between a Serb who is a moderate and one who is nationalist. This goes to the root of the problem to which I was referring.

“why for heaven's sake there are so few Serbs in Kosovo???”

That is something the Albanian people need to acknowledge and accept, not me. You guys have your apologizing you need to do as well. However, it is not my place to demand it. I can only offer apologies for the crimes committed in the name of the Serbian people and hope that your people will respond in a like manner.

“I am not even mentioning the catastrophic blood shed that took place…”

As I stated, we are all fully aware of the crimes committed in the name of the Serbian people, this has been well documented in the press.

“As far as Albanians are concerned, we are not angels, but…”

I think you make my point very well. You consider me a nationalist and condemn my statements, yet the reality is, I’m ready to accept that there were crimes committed by my people, and I’ve condemned them but you gloss over your crimes and claim you were forced to do things like the 2004 riots. Shameful, there is no justification for what happened in 2004. You were in no danger whatsoever.

The simple fact is no ethnicity in the Balkans treats their minorities with respect. You act as though Kosovo was a completely one sided slaughter. Yes, the ratio of Albanian victims to Serbian victims is 10 to 1, but then again, that nearly identically matches the population distribution as well.

Until the world recognizes Serbia’s efforts at reconciliation and acknowledges the crimes against us, Serbia is going to continue to be hostile to the West.

“I am trying to tell you Sir that the Albanians, Croats and the others are not to be blamed for the misfortunes that happened to Serbian people…”

Does this also apply to WWII and Jasenovac? Are you saying that was the fault of the Serbian politicians? Was Tudjman forced by Bosniak government officials to attack the Bosniaks? To destroy Mostar nearly completely? Have you read any of Tudjman’s writings? You see, Tudjman doesn’t fit in with your view that Serbs are entirely to blame for the violence.

Matthew,

I'm behind you 100 %. I have the deepest respect for all Serbs who accept responsibility for the atrocities committed in their name, especially since they have to endure exaggeration of their responsibility for the YU wars and general black painting, while crimes and wrong doings against Serbs and Serbia are denied, diminished or simply not spoken about.

Montgomery must really have gotten nailed for his previous "Truths" about Kosovo article by the US State Department. This is so obvious. I enjoyed his commentaries in the past but, he has proven that he is just another DC mouthpiece. I think I'll go back to watching Jerry Springer reruns, they're more honest.

“eyewitness clearly indicated that the kids were chased by Serbian youths near by the bridge”

Njazi, that was completely dismissed as rumor, there is no support for that allegation. Personally, I feel repeating lies that led to riots is in the same class as shouting “Fire” in a crowded movie theater. Saying those types of things, especially right now, might possibly be dangerous.

This article was on Serbian victimhood and perception, not the merits of Kosovo Independence. However, I do support partition, I do support reparations and I do support a substantial truth and reconciliation commission.

I know it’s trendy to dismiss our belief system as “myth” these days, but belief systems are always based on “myth” and that doesn’t make them any less valid. I know we owe a debt of gratitude for those Albanian families that protected our Historical monuments during the centuries under the Ottoman yoke, but I highly doubt these monuments mean the same to your people as they do to mine. Personally, I would like to see the Albanian population embrace our Churches and recognize the potential for tourism. I would love to go on a guided tour of them with a member of one of the Albanian families that acted as guardians, that would be really amazing.

WWII most certainly effected what happened in the 90’s. Tito basically clamped down a lid on nationalist feeling and once he was gone, a movement to revitalize the Ustashe started in Croatia under Tudjman. I have family in Krajina, simple village types. They weren’t trying to “steal” land merely for nationalistic reasons, they were in a very real fear of what the Neo-Ustashe would do, and you know what? They were right about Tudjman’s intentions. Croatia is free of Serbs now. I drive through Krajina every year, I know what that area looks like.

Daniel, thank you for proving my point better then I could make it.

“What happened in Krajina was purely driven by fear induced by Milosevic and co saying that Ustasha were forming getting ready to attack”

I’ve read Tudjman as I’ve said. I know what his stated opinions were. I read his historical theories on WWII. Tudjman and Milosevic were both criminals, the only difference is Serbs have for the most part accepted that Milosevic was a criminal. Tudjman and Operation Storm are celebrated in Croatia.

“What makes u think the homes destroyed are purely serb?”

Well, all the Ustashe graffiti and swastikas on the destroyed homes and Churches are a pretty good indicator. I drive through Krajina every year going from Zagreb airport to Bosnia.

Unfortunately the Croatian-Bosniak war puts a big hole in you guys’ theories on how nice the Croatian government was. Please feel free to discuss Mostar. The Croats have some serious explaining to do.

The band Thompson is still incredibly popular, even your government ministers go to their concerts with their children. They have such classics as “Jasenovac i Gradiška Stara”. Of course their popularity has no bearing on the Croatian public, they just have “nice” music.

“Its common knowledge the government of Krajina ordered evacuation several days before Operation Storm.”

So are you claiming that these Serbian families were not in fear of their lives, that they left Krajina simply because they wanted to make the Croats look bad? It was just some big conspiracy, some Serb plot to make them look like the victims in the eyes of the world? Are you also implying the Serbs destroyed their own homes? I find that as offensive as those who say the KLA or NATO bombs drove the Albanian population out of Kosovo.

“OK fine, what are u as serbs willing to admit/do to help this reconciliation? Answer, not much apart from denials. And while we are at it, someone is responsible for cold blooded murder of 250,000 croats at Bleiburg after ww2. Lets bring it all out”

I support Tadic’s apology to the Croatian people, I support his attendance at the Srebrenica memorial. I try in my own life to apologize for the terrible crimes committed by Serbs against others. I support communication and understanding between us. However, I can not support a Black & White version of events where Serbs were the only bad guys, and everyone else were completely innocent. Clearly more needs to be done on the Serbian side, I agree strongly on that. However, I do not believe its fair to ignore what Tadic has done, he is a very brave and good man.

As far as WWII was concerned, I do believe Tito was firmly in charge of things, if I recall he was sort of a dictator in the region. If I recall many of his policies supported a “Weak Serbia” to make a “Strong Yugoslavia”. You seem to be implying that he was some sort of Serbian stooge, that he was not in control of the government at all. So who had command responsibility for those crimes that occurred at the end of WWII?

"I’ve read Tudjman as I’ve said. I know what his stated opinions were. I read his historical theories on WWII. Tudjman and Milosevic were both criminals, the only difference is Serbs have for the most part accepted that Milosevic was a criminal."

They certainly arent criminals on the same level. Tudjman had his opinions in diminishing crimes in ww2, but certainly didnt say masses deserved to be killed. However on another note, which people may want to give their opinion, ustasha would not have happened had not croatia been brutalised pre-ww2 by a serbian king. Im not here vindicating what ustasha did because it was horrible, however ustasha movement did not happen overnight. Cyrilic and serb languages were enforced on croats before ww2 by the serb king.

"Well, all the Ustashe graffiti and swastikas on the destroyed homes and Churches are a pretty good indicator. I drive through Krajina every year going from Zagreb airport to Bosnia." over the last 5 years I have driven through there every year and while I wont deny there are some houses with graffiti, id say 99% arent. so by ur logic, most destroyed homes then arent serb. However at the same time alot of croat homes have been repaired as they came back to Krajina, so therefore alot of evidence of destruction of non-serb homes has been patched up. Im not saying there arent serb homes destroyed but to say there are swastikas and ustasha graffiti all over the place is over gross estimation. maybe u only concentrate on one thing. and since croatia is a bad place, why are u flying to zagreb then, arent u scared of being killed?

"Unfortunately the Croatian-Bosniak war puts a big hole in you guys’ theories on how nice the Croatian government was. Please feel free to discuss Mostar. The Croats have some serious explaining to do." Some explaining Im sure but again, it cant be equated to srebrenica, Bihac, etc. u have to remember croats and bosniaks formed a federation.

As for Thomson, Im not a big fan and many croats are not fans of his ustasha songs. But many arent, which is why he has fans. I havent met anyone thats for sure. and at least there is a debate about it in Croatia.

As for reconciliation, serbia hasnt showed anything. Apology from president is worth nothing since president has no power at all. He was brave for what he did, but Kostunica just said "well thats his opinion". If we are speaking about croatia, at least Mesic and Sanader support each other on all crimes being investigated. Last time I checked, they never defended a crime. If people want to refer to Storm, crimes during storm by individuals is punished. operation itself was legit and arguements on contrary are only really by serbia and thats it.

my point with bleiburg was this: If ALL croats according to serbs were ustasha, then Tito's army must have been non-croat, majority serb....so given that a fair amount of 250,000 were ustasha soldiers, then civilians and soldiers were killed by non-croats in cold murder as there wasnt a battle, as evident by the discovered 200+ mass graves in Slovenia....if titos army was large part croat then croats killed croats so it cant mean that ALL croats are ustasha. My personal take is that most croats were Domobrani but had no leadership and ustasha were much more organised and had therefore the power. but hey thats just my opinion. So therefore if we are going to bring up all unanswered questions in ww2 then lets bring them all out.

I think that the Serbs are caught in a struggle between Russia and USA. In addition, USA has already bombed the Serbs on many occasions in recent years in ex-Bosnia-Herzegovina and in Serbia-Montenegro. Meanwhile, Russia has supported the Serbs diplomatically in the UN.

Ideally, Serbs would like to get on with their lives without interference from anyone outside, but unfortunately it is not yet primarily due to the external meddling.

@Johny

"Just look at the reactions coming from the Serbs here. Do they accept anything from the article? The answer is no, and that is fine. There is nothing wrong with it. However they go further by accusing Montgomery and the United States. That was one of the inconvenient truths in the article. The Serbs accuse everyone in the world about their situation. That way Serbia or the Serbs are never guilty. The world and external factors are always guilty for what happens in Serbia."

Please provide some evidence that USA and Germany did not push, cause and fuel Yugo-breaking conflict, and provide evidence that they did not put sanctions on Serbia afterwards. Give evidence also, that says why they are not trying to make Serbia into a WESTERNIA.

The article is a little unbalanced (though not as much as some comments have implied), but is mostly quite accurate. The main obstacle for Serbia coming to terms with its past (and this isn't true only for Serbia, though it does hold particularly strong there) is the paranoia about the 'outsiders' that's been cultivated there for so long. And then you have to account for the fact that Serbs are absolutely sure (just look at our history books!) that we have always been the absolute victims, and have never born any responsibility whatsoever for our own situation. And not just that, but also that there's no other people in the world that's suffered as much as we have - which goes to the belief that most Serbs still have in the 'special' destiny of their people.

And on Kosovo: I don't understand how people can demand that it remain part of Serbia, when there's 2 million Albanians there who don't want that. Let's say Kosovo remains part of Serbia; what do you think would happen next? Does anyone have a plan on what to do with a province where 90% of the population would most likely take to arms rather than be part of Serbia?

Better to negotiate an acceptable deal for Serbs still living in Kosovo and for the protection of Serbian cultural heritage there.

Why is everyone all over this guy? Let him say what he wants. It's a free country.

As a Dane, born with no inborn ties to Serbia, I would have to agree very much indeed with "anothercanadian" in every aspect covered in his comment.

I sometimes have a notion that Serbia is like the little young lad in The Emperor's New Clothes, who actually speaks the truth, amidst repression and lies. As a matter of fact I have once heard one Serb say that it might be smart if the Serbian people learned to hold their tongue sometimes in spite of the obvious call for response.

However, since the Serbian remarks have never been about a naked emperor, ridiculous in all of his pretension and conceit, but about the arrogance of the surrounding socio-cultural-political colonial powers, the reaction has never been the heartily laughter of the surroundings, like in the merry tale.

In so many ways I recognize what "anothercanadian" says: more than once have I been embarrassed when I visited Serbia, sitting in the garden with my hosts and their Hungarian & Bosnian neighbors, treating me like a royal herald - I who come from one of the NATO countries that supported and appealed for the bombing campaigns to be carried out back in '99.

When one points a finger, there are always three fingers pointing back at one self. I don't know many Serbs who run around pointing. Most of the pointing is going on outside of Serbia, from every side. That, which they say they are pointing at, however, I have never seen! It must be a ghost then, perhaps? Or maybe Horatio once more has put the telescope in front of his blind eye?!?

1: The serbs have a different view than the rest of the world.

Montgomery plays the arrogant westerner to the hilt. The "West" does not equal 'the world'. Japan, India, China, Israel amongst many other states did not hold the same 'view' as could easily be evidenced by simply reading their media, or are some of these states not democratic 'enough' to count in Montgomery's world view?

2: Lying by ommission, i.e. only mentioning that it is the Serbs who see themselves as victims. It's hard to believe that this man has actually been anywhere in the Balkans. Everyone thinks they are a victim, or is it up to Montgomery, as an 'independent' outsider to appoint victim status like some Viceroy or head of empire?

3: The 6 recommended 'logical actions' are and always were absurd. If you call kicking someone when they are down 'logical', then you really are from another planet. You did the same to the Russians (look how grateful they are for US 'assistance') and tried to do it to the Chinese. The US has blown any kudos it had, big time.

4: Serbia couldn't have every played its cards right because the 'international community' dumped international law lock stock and barrel, recongnizing Slovenia, Croatia etc. without fulfilling the basic criteria, 1: control of ones own territory; 2: protection of minorites...

The EU had a common position of 'no recognition' without the above fulfilled, but Germany pulled out. The Badinter Commission dressed this up by deciding that internal administrative borders could become international borders.

5: Still has no idea about Serbian politics. Yes, they are fractuous, but the radicals & the socialists are not the same as before and are not a threat. They have publically said that enough is enough with the blackmail, but have not 'threatened' the region etc.

6: A fallacious argument. Most serbs don't go to Kosovo (do you personally know this or are you just repeating the 'current wisdom'?), ergo they don't need it and have no legitimate interest? If this passes for the strongest argument then things must be very bad in the american diplomatic service.

7: This is known as 'globilization'. As for corruption, stick to your own political lobbyists in Washington. I am waiting for the next WHO report to see if the situation of 35 million undernourished american citizens has improved recently.

8: So what? You are arguing that the US et al kept milosevic in power? Sanctions benefited those who knew how to circumvent controls, i.e. the mafia and made it so powerful and influential. You failed to add that western sanction significantly affected the development of Romania, Bulgaria and the other countries in the region, so you weren't just 'punishing' the Serbs, you were punishing many more people. How communist.

9: No. It proves that the 'free' and 'independent' media spewed racist filth with the help of those governments that bore nothing to do with reality. All the stories about 'serb purity' were just that, stories. There were no rivers of blood on the streets of belgrade or people of mixed origin beaten up on the street. I Croatia (Zagreb) it happend, with many people thrown out of their flats. Maybe you should ask a good friend of yours from Zagreb for a copy of the 'Oath of Loyalty' that all 'suspect' citizens were forced to sign 'pledging their allegiance to the new croatian state' on pain of loosing their jobs, benefits etc. It didn't happen in Serbia though did it?

10: How magnaninous to admit that the West blew it. As for an american commenting on EU policy... Without Serbia, the EU's balkans policy is meaningless. The EU needs Serbia, much more that either Bulgaria or Romania need new american bases. By the way, why are there still american troops in Europe?

Please provide some evidence that USA and Germany did not push, cause and fuel Yugo-breaking conflict, and provide evidence that they did not put sanctions on Serbia afterwards. Give evidence also, that says why they are not trying to make Serbia into a WESTERNIA.
(Krncar, 20. August 2007 03:04)

Provided everything you state here is true. Do you still think Serbia and the Serbs have no fault whatsoever for finding themselves in the situation they are in? I always here the Serbs saying it takes two to tango when they talk with Albanians. Now I find from the Serbs themselves that when it comes to them and the west it just takes one to tango and always Serbia is not dancing.

William Montgomery has things upside down.

In NATO/KLA occupied Kosovo, there's no Albanian like B92, which is openly critical of the repackaged KLA goons now given credibility.

As for some of his other points, even the not so Serb friendly Warren Zimmerman acknowledges Slovenian culpability in igniting its conflict with the then Yugoslavia. There's plenty of fault to find with the Croats, Bosnian Muslims and Albanians as well.

Luckily, the neocon/Soros funded neoliberal view of things is being challenged by Serbs with a backbone, a resurgent Russia and morally objective others.

To Matthew,
Sir, you have missed my point. I did put in parenthesis the gvmt for government.
I know what K-Serbs are going through right now in Kosovo. I have been there when the 2004 riots happened and it was not smth that anybody can be proud of. Human suffering is unneccesary on this day and age, especially in Balkans. Just for your information Sir, the riots were directed against UNMIK for not releasing the results of the autopsy and the investigation about the two Albanian kids that were drowned in the river (in case you don't know you can check it out yourself). And the testimony of an eyewitness clearly indicated that the kids were chased by Serbian youths near by the bridge and no legal action was taken against the perpetrators and it was during peaceful protests that people were being shot at from across the Serbian side of the bridge. Then Sir, Albanians tried to get on the other side of the bridge and two people were killed on the spot (whether by French KFOR or Serbs it was never clarified officially). The two day of rioting outcome was 16 Albanians killed and a few unlucky Serbs were beaten up by the mob.In Gnjilane a Serb run on purpose four high school kids going back home from school, and one of them is paralised even today and without a chance to recover due to the spinal cord injuries.A lot of Serbian houses were set on fire.
In no manner I condone what happened during March 04 and I know for a fact that it was never the same for K-Serbs. I truly feel for their suffering and missery for the simple reason that I have gone throgh the same myself. I, also know that KPS and KPC was engaged to protect Serbian towns from the rioters alongside KFOR and UNMIK-Police. Every single victim whether Albanian or Serb is one to many.What happened during WWII is painful but has no bearing on the political situation today. I DO not support any kind of violence and beleive it or not you are the first person I am addressing on this site.
The reason being that you sound a reasonable poster.( I apologize in advance to anyone that might take offence since it is not my intention to offend anyone.)
At the same time I can not help but point it out to you, and everybody else, that Kosovo was kept as part of Serbia only by force. Today the situation is completely different. The force is no longer a factor and since this is the case what do the Serbian politicians offer??? THE RETURN OF SERBIAN FORCES IN KOSMET (to protect Serbs and churches in Serbian enclaves)
Who has been doing that for the last eight years? VS?
What I am trying to say is that, unfortunately for both of our people,there are no politicians within Serbia that are truly brave enough to aknowledge the new (old) reality in Kosovo. No matter what the status outcome we CANNOT ignore each other and pretend that everything is finished at that point. We need more people to get involved in this diccussion, without prejudices and without claiming "mythical" rights about and for Kosovo.
Another thing that really bothers me is the fact that Orthodox Monastiries and churches are looked upon as exclusively Serbian. They are part of our history, also, and as such are part of our collective cultural heritage.
I hope you will have a better understanding of my opinion about Kosovo and its people (yes Albanians, Serbs and everybody else that live in Kosovo).
To B92 PLEASE FEEL FREE TO REMOVE ANY WORD, SENTENCE OR PARAGRAPH THAT YOU DEEM MIGHT BE OFFENSIVE FOR YOUR POSTERS.
THANK YOU

I'm behind you 100 %. I have the deepest respect for all Serbs who accept responsibility for the atrocities committed in their name, especially since they have to endure exaggeration of their responsibility for the YU wars and general black painting, while crimes and wrong doings against Serbs and Serbia are denied, diminished or simply not spoken about.
(Carl, Sweden, 20. August 2007 20:21)

Had Serbia not be so obsessed denying its own crimes it would be able to see that there actually are people put in jails for crimes against serbs. of course there are examples on all sides where people have got away with crimes but significant amount are prosecuted. There are debates about crimes in all former Balkan countries while Serbs are so obsessed playing self-victim card that even justice against crimes of serbs is quickly forgotten because it doesnt suit the self-victimisation. Easiest thing to say is "noone like serbs". There is a reason for this. If you look outside serbian propaganda and what your parents tell you, you will find them.

On a separate note, atrocities against serbs in ww2 is ignored because it has been replaced by what happened in 90's. what happened pre ww2 is not even discussed in most countries whose last war was ww2. But noone is going to take serbian cries about ww2 seriously given that they cant accept their own responsibility for a war merely 10 years ago or so.

As I said before, Balkan countries and most of world already know what William is talking about in his article. Im surprised that this is the first time its mentioned.

Mathew

Well, I'd have to say your responses have been among the more level headed I've read from the "other side".

From your response to Montgomery's #1, it sounds like it's still a bit difficult for you to comment on the role of the Serbian government in Kosovo (you mentioned Croatia instead).

The "disease" Montgomery was talking about is indeed widespread in the Balkans. Serbs aren't the only ones to suffer from it. I'm Albanian (from Albania) and I can tell you that in my history classes (early 80-s) the "Skanderbeg" Nazi Division was never mentioned... but the Commintern efforts were quite prominent there. A quick look at Wikipedia and contemporary press does indeed reveal details about Albanian past and present history that aren't exactly flattering to our image. So as frustrating as it is for me to debate with Serbs here about Kosovo etc, I can sort of understand the moments of "amnesia" they suffer when it comes to certain events in history.

A couple of other points:

I can't speak for Albanians in Kosovo, Macedonia, and Montenegro, but as far as Albania goes, the notion of the "Greater Albania" is not a popular notion with the majority of our population or the political class for that matter. However, we do feel it is the responsibility of the Albanian government to make sure that the rights and concerns of Albanians living in the neighboring countries are respected. Whether the Serbs here like to admit it or not, Serbia committed gross violation of those rights under Milosevic. Hence the support for the Kosovo Albanians cause today.

Peter:

In a democratic society, the press is INDEPENDENT; not partial to whatever the majority desires. In fact, it is the DUTY of the press to expose inconvenient/unpopular truths.

Unfortunately the U.S. itself is not a model example when it comes to press freedom. The likes of FOX News and CNN make sure that the Americans remain ignorant and very partial to situations like Palestine and the Middle East....and very possibly aspects of Serbia's concerns too.

That's why I watch BBC and even force myself to read Serbianna.com on occasion (as much as I despise that site for the blatant partiality).

I'd just suggest that many of the Serbs here start looking at other sources for their information as well. It sucks in the beginning to read inconvenient truths, but it does get easier as you go along. In the end, it's simply a reminder that no one is perfect or holy.

Matthew,

What happened in Krajina was purely driven by fear induced by Milosevic and co saying that Ustasha were forming getting ready to attack Kosovo. The truth is there was only a small amount of people who thought of ustasha but unfortunately the statements of these were used to spread fear in krajina. I was in Croatia at the time and I know that noone spoke of expulsion of serbs. People could only talk of breaking away from Serbia proper. Thats it. period.

As for no serbs in Krajina. Its common knowledge the government of Krajina ordered evacuation several days before Operation Storm. Babic testified to it, there are documents and there is video footage. You can say whatever u like but those are facts while your opinion is id say provided by your parents whose guilt cannot bring them to admit that serbs committed atrocities in name of defence of a threat that didnt really exist. 1000's of non-serbs were killed and 100000-200000 were expuled from Krajina before 1995. Most serbs talk of operation storm as it was the first thing happened in the war in 1991 but there is 4-5 years of history leading up to what happened in 1995.

As for damage in Krajina. What makes u think the homes destroyed are purely serb? Remember population of Krajina was only about 50-55 serb. Does that justify taking whole Krajina as part of Greater Serbia?

Dino,

I supported the guy for accepting responsibility for war crimes committed by his people, in case you didn’t notice.

“If you look outside serbian propaganda and what your parents tell you, you will find them.”

First of all, as a Swede, the only Serbian propaganda channels I have access to is B92s’ English section. Does that count? Secondly I believe my parents’ knowledge of the former YU is very limited. They know of course that it’s the home of the Evil Serbs, but that’s about it.

“Had Serbia not be so obsessed denying its own crimes it would be able to see that there actually are people put in jails for crimes against serbs. of course there are examples on all sides where people have got away with crimes but significant amount are prosecuted. There are debates about crimes in all former Balkan countries while Serbs are so obsessed playing self-victim card that even justice against crimes of serbs is quickly forgotten because it doesnt suit the self-victimisation. Easiest thing to say is "noone like serbs". There is a reason for this.”

Well, maybe you should tell that to a Serb. But let me tell you, if you took classes in eastern European studies at a Swedish university you would see a different picture from the simplistic black-and-white one usually distributed by western powers and western media. You probably would consider it pro-serbian. I call it objective.

On a separate note, atrocities against serbs in ww2 is ignored because it has been replaced by what happened in 90's. what happened pre ww2 is not even discussed in most countries whose last war was ww2. But noone is going to take serbian cries about ww2 seriously given that they cant accept their own responsibility for a war merely 10 years ago or so.

I don’t know what WW2 has to do with anything, but I think it is a horrible, cruel thought that the atrocities committed towards a large number of people should be declared void with the motivation that people that happened to belong to the same ethnic group were responsible for other atrocities half a century later.

Ment,

Point number one was in reference to accepting and laying blame. I used Croatia as an example because I feel they are the worst offenders in the region in this regard. My point was Serbia is further along in admitting their wrongs then Croatia is. All the regions suffer from it, but Croatia is as I said the worst offender. Even if they don’t apologize to the Serbs, they owe a HUGE apology to their “allies” in the war, the Bosniaks. The Croatians seem to really glorify their Ustashe past, and to be honest, I haven’t seen the same sort of glorification of Albania’s WWII role going on. Sure Albanians suffer from it as well, as do Serbs. That’s my point, and what’s so irritating about Montgomery’s comments. We all suffer from it, and I don’t personally think Serbia is the ONLY one who does it as Montgomery is implying. I laid out much of my reasoning on Croatia’s behavior in my earlier posts. My best friend when I lived in Bosnia was a Croatian by the way, so I do judge everyone on their individual merits. Here in the US, anyone from the Balkans naturally feels a kinship, especially once you get to 2nd and 3rd generations. In the US, we’re all just “White Guys”. I grew up a Yugoslav, I didn’t even know about “Montenegrins”, which is how I would identify myself (and Serb of course).

As far as Milosevic’s policies go, he did many of the same dirty tricks to the Albanian population that Tudjman did to his Serbian population, both are disgusting. I do think he had a legitimate right to combat the KLA, but certainly not civilians. Often in insurgencies civilians aid and abet the military, however, that is no excuse for the broad crimes meted out to the population in general. I think the actions that commenced after the NATO bombing were the most reprehensible. The sheer magnitude of the theft and destruction were terrible. However, the actual blood loss was not that severe compare to other regions and other conflicts in the world. What happened at Srebrenica dwarfs all of Kosovo. I believe that with true reconciliation and real reparations, things might move forward in the region. I believe Montgomery’s comments do not motivate Serbs to want to apologize, they certainly just made me feel offended. I get enough of that stuff here in the Western Media, I go to B92 for a more balance version of events.

Ment I post here because I want to hear Albanian opinion, because I want to communicate and understand one another. Regardless of the outcome of the status talks, we must learn to understand one another. We are going to share regional interests in the EU and it would be foolish not to be able to work together on important concerns.

This guy is an American propaganda tool just like B92.
Here is an inconvenient truth about America: Americans rarely speak the truth.

Matthew, are u serious? Serbia is more advanced than Croatia? Obviously u have never been in croatia. glorification of ustasha is inside ur head im afraid. I wont deny that there are people there that have ustasha ideals but at least the topic is debated in Croaita on a daily basis. I have never heard of many croats who are actually horrified at what ustasha did and being raised in croatia, it was quiet offensive to be called that.

However, Im not sure anything is debated in Belgrade, either war in 90's or in particular cetniks in ww2.

As for modern day serbia, the greatest party to win votes in last election is Seselj's party. While in Croatia, the HDZ (Tudjmans HDZ) is in coalition with the serb party there. yeah that makes it less advanced than serbia. I wont even mention recent things like rascially abused croat politician in serb parliament. if these things happened in croatia, they would be called ustasha; if it happens in serbia...lets forget about it, isolated incident.

You say "I believe that with true reconciliation and real reparations, things might move forward in the region.". OK fine, what are u as serbs willing to admit/do to help this reconciliation? Answer, not much apart from denials. And while we are at it, someone is responsible for cold blooded murder of 250,000 croats at Bleiburg after ww2. Lets bring it all out.

I think there are two "Dinos" that write with the same name.
Just for clarification I am the Dino-the-albanian and from now on I will write my name as DinoA (For Dino Albanian). I am not sure the nationality of the other Dino, although I agree with him most of the time. But to relate to the previous post from "Dino" I have never been to Croatia,
so I guess this explain it.
Thanks.

Holy Cow, Matthew. Where did you come from. I mean that in a positive way. Most of your comments are right on and all of your comments are thought inspiring. They are even bringing out the more inteligent Non- Serbs in response. Forget William Montgomery for a little while. I am proud of the way you've handeled your self in these comments and the way you've brought out the intelligent side in both Serbs and non-serbs alike.
I am also noticing more constructive arguments and not just Serb-bashing from the Albanian and K-Albanian camp. Who knows, maybe if a few more inteligent voices rise up from all sides, maybe, just maybe, some day...
Keep it up. I am looking forward to more of your comments.

Dear Ment,

You said, "In a democratic society, the press is INDEPENDENT; not partial to whatever the majority desires. In fact, it is the DUTY of the press to expose inconvenient/unpopular truths." Good God Ment, B-92 isn't reporting truth, it is taking its predictable LIBERAL side and when 100% opposed to your citizens opinion, you might need to take a good look in the mirror and ask yourself what is wrong with this picture. You are arrogant in telling your majority readers that they are simply not as smart as you and are wrong. The fact that B-92 ignores the church completely shows its LIBERAL bias and that if Kosovo is lost, B-92 will have some responsibility in turning its back on its own people and church. If you can live with that, you are completely lost. Sramota to all of you!!!!

First of all- wow, what a great discussion!

Aside from all of the controversial stuff- one interesting point that Montgomery makes is that Belgrade is the most dynamic city in the region. The 21st century world is one of urbanized global economic centres of value generation. One cannot help but note that Serbia has a good strategic relationship with each of the three major global emerging economies of Russia, China and India. (All to be top 5 by about 2020)

Serbs have a natural capacity for IT and this will become more evident in the coming years as Serbia will become the European centre for IT- India for example already has a plan to develop a major technology park between Belgrade and Novi Sad in Indija. A Belgrade-Novi Sad urbanized megoplis is currently filling in.

Noone else in the Balkans has such the capacity for strong relations with these three emerging powers. Serbia is the only nations which these three actually like and respect. This is Serbia's main strategic advantage looking forward.

Dear Peter

I stand by my comments about the impartiality of the press even though you chose to call me arrogant for it.
I firmly believe that the job of the press is to state facts and events as they unfold from multiple perspectives so that people may be better informed and as a result make better decisions.

It is not the job of the news press to sugarcoat events so that the readers can feel good about themselves. That's what hobbies, tabloid/celebrity journalism, pot, sex and alcohol are for.

I've read B-92 for a while now and I would characterize its tone as neutral. In my experience other respected publications/media outlets often do print op-eds/letters from writers/readers belonging to the "opposite" camp.

We both live in the States and I wonder whether you watch FOX News:

According to FOX, the mouthpiece of the American "patriot":

1. If you report on abuses in Abu Ghraib, you are anti-military.

2. If you accuse the administration for a lack of planning before going to Iraq, you're not a patriot, because you don't support the troops.

3. If you accuse the administration for falsifying, doctoring, leaking intelligence reports in order to send the country to war, you're not a patriot and you don't support the troops.

3. If you support equal rights for all citizens regardless of their sexual preference, you're immoral and godless.

4. If you don't mention God and Jesus with every other word in a speech, you're immoral and godless.

5. If you spill American blood in Iraq while arming Saudia Arabia (the main sponsor of radical Islam) to the teeth, you ARE a patriot.

6. If you ask for more oversight on surveillance done on your own citizens, you're not a patriot.

7. If you've never yourself served in the military but accuse ones that have done so for cowardice, you ARE a patriot.

8. If you disagree with the administration on anything; energy, budget, debt,... anything at all, you're not a patriot.

9. If you state that the country does have problems and is going in the wrong direction, you hate America and you're not a patriot.

In all fairness, CNN, MoveOn.org, Huffington Post have their own share of sins. They can be just as rabid for the left.

The point is, all of these "news" channels did not critically look at the decisions made by the administration and the opposing Democrats in the past few years. They pandered to the popular sentiment of the day and failed the country in the process by not being daring enough in taking on the politicians.

i have travelled all my life, in many countries...and i can say that Serbian people are the ones who not deserve to be under this situation!
stop conflicts!

Goran, thanks, I do try to have rational discussions with the Albanians here, many are quite moderate if given the chance. I have learned a good deal, and I have changed some of my opinions, and I hope that I’ve done the same for others at times. Even if I strongly disagree with a position, I enjoy a rational discussion of the merits, if only to find any possible holes in something. I got tired of posting everyday the same thing over and over again.

And Carl, you are absolutely correct to support Serbs who speak up about atrocities, especially when they do not give up on Serbian values as well.

Daniel, to be honest, I’m not a big fan of the Serbian Royal Families’ policies either, being Montenegrin and all. I know they did not treat the Croats as full equal citizens especially in government. However, it wasn’t that bad, it most certainly did not merit Jasenovac as a response. It’s my understanding that the Croatians wanted to join with the Serbs as it allowed them to hold off some of the territorial aspirations the major powers in the region had against them.

Tito had an open door policy for “former” Cetniks and Ustashe towards the end of the war, so it may be hard to determine exactly what his final army composition exactly was. I will concede a large portion of his army were Serbs and they probably wanted revenge. However, it would not have happened without Tito’s orders. Tito was most certainly in control. Was it wrong? Yes of course. Was it political or racial or simply brutal revenge? Or a little bit of each? Should I be ashamed as a Serb? I dunno Daniel, I really don’t know. Why don’t we just agree to blame the commies?

I am aware Croat property was destroyed, every single Catholic Church I saw was new, so I know they were all destroyed. Yes, I’ve seen plenty to make me feel uncomfortable. Yes, I have felt discriminated against at times because of my last name. As I’ve said I drive through as my wife’s family lives in Bosnian Krajina now. They used to live on both sides of the Una. Its only a couple hours from Zagreb airport, but crazy far from Sarajevo. I do have blood family in Dubrovnik, our presence there goes back for centuries and we’ve always played an important role in the life of the city. Some of my family have been the highest Judges in Dubrovnik. I’m Dalmatian, I love Croatian culture. I also come from a mixed clan, so I naturally find Albanian society fascinating and enlightening as well.

Operation Storm resulted in the single largest act of Ethnic Cleansing of the wars in the 90’s. That is exactly what it represents to us Serbs. When Croatia celebrates it as a national holiday, all we see are the columns of refugees fleeing for the border. It is pretty insensitive to glory in such an event that means so much to our people. I know how the average Serb from that area felt and what motivated them and what they went through. No media, no politics, just honest simple farmers and villagers. I see the desperation in their eyes, and I know for sure they suffered something no one should have suffered.

You are correct that Mostar wasn’t as bad as Srebrenica. However, I’ve seen Mostar with my own eyes a couple of times. That city is very heavily destroyed. I’ve seen a number of damaged cities and destroyed villages, but Mostar was the worst I personally saw, even more then a decade after the event.

You are also correct that Mostar requires some explaining. I was kind of hoping that maybe you might provide such an explanation, or possibly even an apology to the Bosniak people. I know Srebrenica was wrong and much worse and it is what I’m most shamed of. I support what Tadic did, even if it was “only symbolic” and only one person. I also support his apology to the Croatian people, regardless of whether we get an apology in return. Tadic has the courage to put his entire political career on the line and do what’s right, regardless of what the other side says or does. I do not think Croatia has such a brave politician. That is why Montgomery’s comments are so offensive to me. Can you imagine the Croatian President attending a memorial to the victims of Operation Storm in Belgrade? And issuing an apology to the Bosniak people? Can you image Serbs building bridges named after Milosevic in their main tourist destination? However, I agree you guys do seem to be cooperating more closely with the Hague even if Gotovina decided to go on a little extended vacation for a while. We did cough up Milosevic, the worst of the lot. However, Tudjman had his reputation “saved” by never having to face those same charges. Its too late to dig up some juicy Tudjman quotes, but we’ll talk more later I’m sure. I’ve never understood people who support Milosevic or Tudjman, they worked hand in hand to destroy the lives of everyone in the Balkans. Tudjman was a bad man, Operation Storm was wrong, Mostar deserves an apology.

I do appreciate the well reasoned and articulate points Daniel. Refreshing conversation. I do think Montgomery unwittingly gave us all an opportunity to at least consider what happened and it seemed all sides, Serbs, Albanians and Croats did admit at least some aspects of some things that happened were wrong.

Maybe there is some hope for the future. Try to remember if we can not work out our differences, it will tear apart the EU just as sure as it did Yugoslavia.

Matthew, its important to know the truth and not take a stance and ignore circumstances leading to something. For a start, Krajina evacuation was ordered 3 days prior to Storm. That fact cant be ignored and Im surprised how much it is. It cant also be ignored that this happened in 1995 and that same amount of non-serbs were expelled from Krajina in 4 years before Storm. I understand serbs were afraid, but ethnic cleansing done by forceful removal and removal of population by your own government is different. You may celebrate Storm as you wish but facts about ordered evacuation and facts about non-serb removal from Krajina in 4 years prior to Storm will not simply vanish. I do agree that crimes within Storm need to be investigated and they have been and are continuing. Many of those are revenge killings. However as for Storm being illegal, it will never be regarded as that since Croatia had foreign military within its borders ie. from Serbia proper. If you cant use military when a foreign military is within your borders, then when can you?

Regarding your first comment about Royal Family…no Jasenovac I wont defend….noone can really. But the royal family actions pre ww2 is a direct cause of rise of ustasha. Ustasha was only symbol of resistance to serbanisation of croatia pre ww2. However noone thought ustasha were going to do what they did. Their rise is much like Nazis….noone prior to ww2 thought that Hitler was going to do what he did at Auswitz. Things went too far. Lets not be mistaken, I am not defending what ustasha did…but they were not created overnight. As for croats wishing to join serbs against major powers in ww2….it sounds romantic but from what I gather, I believe many joined because they had no choice. When partisans marched into split and asked people to join them, I don’t think it was a democracy where u were left alone if u said no.

read the other day that Slovenes may have found a mass grave with 15,000 victims from Bleiburg. I guess everyone was a victim as a result of ww2 and 200+ mass graves in Slovenia is a proof. Funnily enough, it never makes serb news given that it was Yugoslavia and all when this occurred.

As for being discriminated, I was discriminated too. In 1980’s I went to Belgrade and was no served at a local shop because I had a wrong accent (Dalmatian). My uncle was a serb married to my aunty and he used to say the only way he will come to visit us in Dalmatia was with tanks. He was a military officer in JNA. Was he joking?

As for Mostar are u sure Bosnian side was destroyed given that majority of Mostar population is and was Croatian. Bet u didn’t know that. If you want to see a city heavily destroyed, have a look at photos of Vukovar. Now that was some levelling.

As for Tadic, I don’t think Mesic has anything to apologise to Tadic given that Croatia didn’t fire a single bullet into its own country. But Tadic’s country did send troops into Croatia. Croatian politicians support crimes to be investigated. Just follow javno.hr for example (its in English). You will see that Mesic and Sanader are not denying anything if it did happen. They don’t protect anyone who has commited a crime.

Your comments that Montgomery’s comments are offensive is interesting given that what he has said is common knowledge among non-serbs. As for EU and Yugoslavia, one thing is that Croatia is advanced along EU lines that Serbia. Serbia has many more issues like Kosovo to deal with and im sure the hidden documents issue will come to light at some stage. Maybe Croatia and Serbia will soon be in EU together. However they will never be part of a same country again. And that is certain and that is best for all.

I suggest going to the website to read this as you can then click on the links.

http://antiwar.com/malic/

What gets me most about this whole article is that nowhere does it claim to be neutral, as so many pundits who write about the Balkans do. Yet somehow in this critique, Montgomery manages to stay neutral, while still portraying a critique. Further credibility can be given to the author due to his earlier piece on Kosovo, where he also criticizes the Albanian side of the conflict.
What also gets me is how the posts of presumably Serbians have proved the points in the article much more than the article itself could have ever done.
Blackbird your post of a "refutation" to this article proves the article even further. It has the premise that the "Serbs are the victims" no matter what. Essentially blame the Ustase,KLA,EU,NATO,American Empire,Western Arrogance,Extremist Islam,etc, without any mention of the incompetences of Serb leadership in the 1990s, such as Seselj,Milosevic,Milan Martic, etc. Who sent up to 8,000 JNA troops to their deaths in Vukovar? Was it the Ustase? Or was it somebody a little closer to home? The article asserts that Croatian seperatism, Alija Izetbegovic's seperatism,etc is to blame for Serbia not being the most powerfull nation in the area (as it could have been). Yet, who refused the Z-4 plan? Who set up the first road blocks? Think logically, has this approach of victimhood worked up until now? Wouldn't it be wiser to adapt to your ideological enemy? Food for thought eh.

Are you people insane ? Debating this absurd article, disecting who was at fault in mindless circles, all of you. Seriously, my friends embrace the fact of real politics and passive propaganda.
The real culprits are self-interest groups with much to much free money invested in consolidation of power. A potent threat to the real world, whichever side you're on. Followed by close second career criminal ie; organised crime.
All of us are arguing and fighting over trivialities, out glorious differences used as antagonists, while they clean up.

I really can't put into words how that makes me feel !!!

Daniel you seem like you represent a fairly mainstream view that is not extremist or pro-Ustashe. Can we assume that how you approach the issue is similar to other educated Croatians?
You opinions on the Croat-Bosniak war are interesting. Keep in mind, this article is mostly about laying blame, victimization, and denial of responsibility.

“Some explaining Im sure but again, it cant be equated to...”

“As for Mostar are u sure Bosnian side was destroyed given that majority of Mostar population is and was Croatian.”

Are you seriously saying the Bosniaks committed the majority of the destruction in Mostar? Anyways, I found this quote about the damage to Mostar, but I’m not positive it’s a truly reliable source.
“A report pulflished in 1995 by the Institute for the Protection of Cultural, Historical, and Natural Heritage of Bosnia-Herzegovina documents the damage and destruction to more than 2,000 culturally significant works of architecture during the war: 1,115 mosques, 309 Catholic churches, 36 Serbian Orthodox churches, and 1,079 other public buildings.”
http://www.haverford.edu/relg/sells/mostar/Mostartransition.html

So nearly 4 times as many mosques were destroyed than Catholic Churches.

All the following quotes are from the ICTY indictment against Mladen Naletilic and Vinko Martinovic. I feel the ICTY is a fairly solid source.

http://www.un.org/icty/indictment/english/nal-ai01204e.htm

“The population of the municipality of Mostar prior to the beginning of the conflict (1991 official census) was composed of 126, 628 inhabitants, of which 43,856 (34.6%) were Muslims; 43,037 (33.9%) were Croats; 23,846 (18.8%) were Serbs; 12.768 (9.9%) were Yugoslavs; and 3,121 (2.4%) were others.”

So slightly more Muslims, for whatever that means. Croats are a majority there now, but that really isn’t something to be proud of I don’t think.

“The Croatian Community of Herceg-Bosna (HZ H-B) proclaimed its existence on 18 November 1991, and claimed to be a separate or distinct "political, cultural, economic and territorial whole" in the territory of Bosnia and Herzegovina. Its purposes included, inter alia, the establishment of closer ties with the Republic of Croatia. These aspirations, which were supported by the Republic of Croatia, were evidenced by the HZ H-B’s use of the Croatian currency and the Croatian language and the granting by the Republic of Croatia of Croatian citizenship to Bosnian Croats.”

Sounds like Tudjman was alleged to have been involved.

“Beginning simultaneously in April 1993, in the Herzegovinian municipalities of Stolac, Capljina and Mostar, the HVO carried out the arrest of prominent Bosnian Muslims and imposed different measures of persecution against the Bosnian Muslim population, such as dismissals from work positions and public service, discrimination in the delivery of humanitarian aid, attacks against Bosnian Muslim houses and properties, and imposition of Croat language and education.”

“Across the confrontation line, the ABiH held section of the city was under siege by the HV and HVO forces, who were shelling intensely the area and preventing the arrival of humanitarian aid and basic supplies.”

“The goal of this campaign by the HV and HVO forces, commonly referred to as "ethnic cleansing", was to gain control of the municipalities of Mostar, Jablanica and others in Bosnia Hercegovina and to force the Bosnian Muslim population to leave these territories or to substantially reduce and subjugate this population. The means used for this purpose included killings, beatings, torture, evictions, destruction of cultural and religious heritage, looting, deprivation of basic civil and human rights, and mass expulsions, detentions and imprisonments, all of them executed following a systematic pattern of ethnic discrimination. As a result of this campaign, tens of thousands of Bosnian Muslims abandoned Mostar, Jablanica and other municipalities in Bosnia Hercegovina. The traditional ethnic diversity of these municipalities was virtually eliminated, and an ethnically homogeneous society and institutions were imposed in these areas.”

There’s a whole bunch of individual crimes listed if you want to read it.

Seriously Daniel, the Croatians do have some explaining to do. Strangely enough, Croatians suffered by far the lowest per capita causality rate. While Serbs died in only slightly lower proportion to their population (30% according to the ICTY) the Croats had a rate half their population distribution. Something to think about. Clearly the Bosniaks suffered the most. Maybe just maybe Daniel, we both owe them an apology?

I concede the Serbs have been under immense pressure to do the things that Tadic has done and that may have helped in the process. However, I believe actions such as Tadic’s should be applauded and supported, not forgotten and dismissed. He did a brave thing and the international community sidelined him. It seems every time we satisfy a request, like sending Milosevic to the Hague, the West just demands more.

I support Tadic and condemn Milosevic. You are right that Milosevic turned his back on the Serbs in Krajina and abandoned them to be cleansed. However, I know way too many refugees to believe it was some plan by Serbian civilians to make the Croats look bad. These are just poor simple folk. Farmers types. They wouldn’t leave all that behind for nothing, just because Belgrade told them to. They need the land to farm, to make a living. That’s a big thing to give up. Its not Belgrade that is keeping them from returning. They aren’t very sophisticated, they are just scared of the Ustashe, they are just frightened, and still are. Most likely not many will ever return.

“As for Tadic, I don’t think Mesic has anything to apologise to Tadic given that Croatia didn’t fire a single bullet into its own country.”

Anyways, like I said, I support an apology to your people regardless of whether you officially return the courtesy. Even if you don’t maybe someone else will?

After reading Mr.Montgomerys article - i would like to concentrate on one statement that he made:
This misunderstanding of the basic cause of his defeat had significant consequences, as our policies and requests of the new Serbian government were based on the false premise that the Serbian people had repudiated nationalism.
This statement is simply childish, as are many US official views about Kosovo and perpetual claims independence of Kosovo as the only solution. I have never heared of any nation in the world that has repudiated nationalism on a certain date or at certain event in it's history. Such thing simply doesn't exist. There are views that America is young nation - and due to that has childish perspective of world and it's own importance in this world. There is also well funded view that due it's youthfulness American people are very selfish and very materialistic. We certainly can say that Serbs have significant nationalism - but so do Croats, and even more Albanians. But as for selfishness - I don't think that Serbs can compare to Americans.
As for nationalism in Serbs (and perhaps in any nation in the Balkans) it should slowly lessen through education of coming generations which should become aware of it's limitations... Certainly there will be no fixed date in future - when we can expect that - Serbs repudiate nationalism.

Mr William has missed the point on may of his comments. This article explains:

http://antiwar.com/malic/?articleid=11490