Ten inconvenient truths about Kosovo

Under 1244, Serbia has the right to secure it's borders including kosovo. Too much is made about the military threat of Albanians when the most efficient and effective solution would be to allow the Serbian Armed Forces to resume it's responsibilities for the protection of it's citizens-that is, the numerous Serbian and Roma enclaves throughout the province. The Serbian Armed Forces know the territory as well as the enemy much better than KFOR. Furthermore, it is endowed with a characteristic that is absent with any foreign occupying power: love for it's own people. It is only a matter of time before the EU realizes that by working in concert with the S.A.F, that the goal of lasting peace can be attained for ALL the citizens of Serbia living on it's soil, regardless of nationality.

So, basically the West promised Kosovo Albanians independence to keep a lid on violence and now if they can't deliver the Kosovo Albanian leadership will start a war against the West.

If they do recognise a unilateral declaration of independence, the worldwide consequences are much, much worse than having to put down a rebellion by a poorly armed and trained bunch of ragtag fighters, who can't get any outside assistance. There will be no Iraq-style insurgency in Kosovo and Metohija.

World stability or the unpleasant task of having to put down erstwhile allies?

The US built up and then put down the Taliban. They'll do it again in Kosovo and Metohija, with much more success.

The Kosovo Albanian leadership should cut their losses and accept autonomy.

So it was ok to send in the bombers in 1999, but its not ok now for NATO to do its job and implement Resolution 1244.

Maybe NATO should leave the region altogether.

Mr. Montgomery forgot to mention one very important thing. If the coalition of the willing unilaterally recognize greater albania, Republika Srpska will immediately declare independence and be recognized by Russia - tit for tat. In addition, North Kosovo will remain with Serbia with all the resources. This will give Putin the excuse he needs to take back the lands of the former Soviet Union where Russians live, and he will happily do it. Russia and Serbia are definitely in a win-win situation here, and are holding all the cards, and have check-mated the the americans. As Borat would say, High Five!!!

The Ahtishaari plan gave the Serbs of Kosovo nothing of any importance. It gave the Albanians everything they wanted. The worst thing the Serbs of Kosovo could do was to embrace a plan that gave them absolutely nothing. An Albanian run police force, ALbanian run education, albanian run roads and transportation, provinces that could be abolished by albanians in the parliament. Its the worst plan imaginable for Serbs.

Dear "John":

Your writing style and poor cadence in English betray the fact that you are an Albanian pretending to be an outsider with an objective opinion. The truth is you share a national Albanian agenda to steal Serbian land in violation of clear and well established international law. 50 years of illegal Albanian infiltration cannot be permitted to erase 1000s of years of Serbian culture and history.

Truth is Montgomery, if the US force the partition (along non-Albanian vs Albanian lines) on Serbia of it's province is there any NATO country willing to stop Serbia do what the Croatians did in 1995 ???

Especially since you accept that what the US are doing is circumvents the UN (ILLEGAL) and its agreements via valid resolutions that they formulated and signed i.e. UN resolution 1244. Which by the way also provides legitamacy for the NATO troops in which case they are immediatly at peril since they have absolutly no mandate and could face war crime charges for any action on Serbian soverign soil being seen in International Law as invaders.

I don't understand you guys why are you waisting time. You know as the world knows that Serbia has nothing to do with Kosovo any more, it's gone.
It might take few more month but we will all see that Kosovo will be independent.

I would suggest to Kosovo Serbs to cut their loses and concentrate there and accept reality (just like K-Alb accepted it for so many years) but in this case Serbs will not suffer of beatings and killings like K-Alb did. So for their own good accept Kosovo as a new country and build your life's there. Most of them they know the language anyway so they can start working and get on with life, cos Serbia can't do anything about it.

And like friend of mine from Belgrade told me that they don't like Serbs from Kosovo so the fact tells them that they will be better of in Kosovo as Kosovars. Good Luck

Ten real truths about Kosovo:
1. The Contact Group Trio has different interests in resolving Kosovo issue: the USA would like to split further former Yugoslavia and to enhance Muslim community in Europe; the EU -to gain new economic market; Russia - to help its Sebian brothers, and not to undermine the UN Charter or create any bad precedent.
2. The US has the biggest vested (military) interest in Kosovo: Bondsteel Air Force and Army Base.3.If a broad-based autonomy in the framework in Serbia is brought about, all three will be the winners + Kosovo.
4. Such precedents are unlikely. But the main culprit in sturring up regional tension there will be the USA and its cronies.5. The EU is interested in enhancening all-out security in the Balkans, in principle, but is being misled by the USA.6. NATO is not at risk at all in Kosovo, if the process of resoliving Kosovo issue will be conducted peacefully. 7. President Bush's statements made in Albania and Bulgaria
are mere provocations or outline the lack of professionalism among his advisers.8. The key international player is Serbia only, and nobody else, because Kosovo is a part of it, and not a part of the USA. 9. The future of Kosovo will be determined by Serbia, and, therefore, it will be a bright one. 10. The KLA should be disbanded, because it does not meet the requirements of Serbia and the world community at large.

Fatos,

Please don't insult our intelligence here. You Albanians keep throwing these numbers like 12,000+, this many rapes, etc...Carla Del Ponte and the UN have pretty much established that only 2300 died (and they are not sure that they are all Albanians). So stop insulting us like Bill Clinton and Tony Blair did when they threw out 100,000 people killed during the bombings to scare people. Albanians told lavish stories of thousands being smelted away in the Trepca mine only for K-For soldiers to found not 1 body! We've seen this act before with "dead" people appearing after the war which several foreign journalists who were burned telling anyone going in not to buy your nonsense. Remember Veton Surroi, Koha Ditore editor? Wasn't he killed and then reappeared after the war? So all you Albanians please stop insulting us with your cafe/bar fables and realize that Kosovo will be partioned because the Russians will not flinch like they did in 99.

If the Russians are such an insignificant force on the world stage as the Albanians claim, then why isn't Kosovo already independent ? America has been dangling independence in front of the Albanians since February. The U.S. can promise all they want, the fact is they cannot circumvent the United Nations and break International Law in Europe. They may be able to pull those moves in less civilized areas like Iraq, they have no interests in Kosovo aside from showing the oil producing Moslem countries that the U.S. is not anti-Moslem. Should things backfire on the Albanians and they don't get the independence they're dreaming about, they will show the Americans their true face.

Jack - beautifully said.
Noel (Malcolm) - I read that publication of yours which you may call a book, but I have other names for it (rag?). I have one question for you, how much did the albanian lobby pay you to publish your lies? Did you sit down and write it with Christiane Amanpour, or was it Albright, because your book is full of lies.
Walter - I love reading your posts, you are one of the most learned people around. Please keep them coming. We need more truth and less propoganda on here.

Truths?
I do not believe for a minute the statement that, “Virtually all those leaders are now caught in a trap in which the United States has UNINTENTIONALLY placed them.” The US does not do anything “unintentionally”. They are calculating and manipulative and regrettably, intelligence and integrity are not often used, especially in their foreign policy decisions. That the other world leaders chose to follow right in line behind the US is sheer stupidity. One has to question what their selfishness motivation was and I doubt it was sincere concern for the people of the Balkans.

Montgomery ceirtanly made few good points, as always.
Our conclusions always end up being very different, somehow.
“Virtually all those leaders are now caught in a trap in which the United States has UNINTENTIONALLY placed them.”
On this one I agree with Roger7.
He wrote: "The US does not do anything “unintentionally”. They are calculating and manipulative and regrettably, intelligence and integrity are not often used, especially in their foreign policy decisions."
It's been clear for a while to everyone that Russia will not change it's stance on Kosovo (why would they).
Russia has been given a great gift by the Western powers.

"Putin's dream scenario is the United States with the support of a number of EU/NATO countries establishing a "coalition of the willing" and giving a green light to the Kosovo Albanians to announce a referendum on independence. This would mean that this group was expressly circumventing the United Nations and thereby setting a precedent useful to Russia in Moldova and Georgia.", wrote Mongomery.
He rightfully calls this "Putin's dream scenario". Not to mention "potential to cause major rifts inside NATO and the European Union."
In my mind, this scenario is very unlikely to happen.
And that is preciselly, the reason for President Bush's statements in Albania and Bulgaria.
In my view, it's true that "Virtually all those leaders are now caught in a trap in which the United States has unintentionally placed them." with replacement of one word (Unintentionally with intentionally).
Albanian leaders in Kosovo have given little space now, but to at some point declare independance unilaterally, and break the stalmate that will, no doubt, continue, as I don't see any reason for Serbia to give in, and even less reason for Russia to do so, and rid itself of benifits, so generously provided by Western powers.
EU countries, on the other hand, don't appear to be too eager to get themselves bogged down in Kosovo. They seem to be looking for the way out, too.
For a while now, everybody seem to be incouraging Kosovo Albanian leaders to "take a plunge" and go unilaterally, despite of calls for patience, etc.
Just look at statement made few months ago by Richard Holbrook, that for any violance that may occur in Kosovo, he will blame Serbia and Russia.
Many see him as next US Secretary of State, should Democrats win the election.
And there he was, giving Albanians blank cheque to go ahead with the violance, stating that someone else will be blamed if they do.
Year one student of any University taking courses in Conflict Resolution area, would do better.
Initially, Holbrook just made diplomatic skills of Condy Rise look impressive. Then I started thinking about it.
Do I really believe that Holbrook is just a guy with below average IQ?
No.
It appears to me that everyone is pushing Albanians to do something, and when they do, they will all wash their hands saying that Albanians ignored their calls for patients, etc. This will be an opportunity for EU to simply walk away.
Kosovo will be, de facto, partitioned without recognition for southern part by Serbia.
It's too early now to talk about what kind of unrecognized state this will be.
West Bank and Taiwan come to mind. Let's all hope that it could become Taiwan.
Now, I have to go. It's my daughter's birthday. Yes, Judy, it's me.

Hi Noel(Malcolm?).

The golden chance to resolve this issue was just after the war. The UN together with NATO should have acted on the full implementation of 1244 and prevented the KLA from ethnically cleansing the non-albanian population. This of course would have stripped the KLA from their murderous say over Kosovo. The question is , is it to late to do so?, answer is No. In my view the ethnic albanians lack and unwillingness to play a constructive role over the past 8 years leaves the international community with no other choice but to negotiate the status only with Belgrade.

Serbia stood up to massive air assault for long enough to break the will of NATO and only had to sign what they had already agreed to in the initial round of the Rambouillett ambush and should be treated as such.

I hope B92 will publish my comment too Noel.

Tombo
I agree 100%

" ..... This will become a de facto partition of Kosovo unless action is immediately taken to counter it. The question is what force will be willing and able to do so. The only viable military force is KFOR. But it is unclear if the countries contributing forces to it will be willing to take on this responsibility. Deciding to do so could easily create immense controversy and disruption in NATO itself."

Exactly what I have been predicting all along.

Don't expect anyone in the West to resort to violence to prevent the de facto partition. Because unlike 1999, no Albanian is perceived to be in danger and so don't expect the West to go to war when the north breaks away in the event of a unilateral declaration from Pristina. Also unlike 1999, the West has still not got itself into a black hole in Iraq, Afghanistan and, may I predict, eventually Sudan too.
As it is, some Nato members do not allow their troops to be engaged in combat in Iraq and Afghanistan, to the chagrin of the US. Don't expect these same Nato members to react any differently in Kosovo too.

There is another comment that I have to make. Many in the past have told me that it is useless to post links to relevant sites, as majority of Alabnians will continue to talk about 12.000 deaths. I'll do it anyway.
The number of dead Albanians appears to be rising.

"How logical it is to believe that the same people who killed 12500 civilians + 3500 who are unaccounted for, raped thousands of women and deported half of the Albanian population of 2 million to rule the same victims." said Fatos.

Let's examine the issue one more time, (I'll admit that I'm tired of it).

Exhumation in Kosovo started shortly after NATO arrival in Kosovo. Majority of suspected graves were oppened. Especially those that were believed to contain most bodies.
The result was 2,108 bodies.
This was annaunced on Nov 19th, at the press conference at UN in New York by Carla del Ponte.

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/pbrooke/p&t/Balkans/dmonkosovo/199912

I have to agree with the author (David Morrison) of the article that "2,108 people dead is 2,108 too many."

He also asked many relevant question (as many people did).

"Who are they?
The ICTY have exhumed 2,108 bodies so far. But they have given no other information about the graves or the bodies found within them. For example, can the bodies be identified as Albanian or were some of them Serb civilians or Yugoslav military personnel? Were they obviously the result of the massacre of Albanians by Serbs? Were any of them identifiable as casualties of fighting between the KLA and Yugoslav forces or Serb civilians? Were any of them obviously civilian victims of NATO bombs? Is it possible to say approximately when the killings took place in each case?"

On subsequent occasion spokesman of Tribunal (I believe that it was Paul Riley at the time) was asked those questions.
It was obvious that many of the victim died in NATO bombing, and that some of them are either Serb civilians, or Serb soldiers who died. Some even had cause of death determined by forencis teams to be "natural causes"
When asked about number of people who died from natural causes vs. violant deaths Paul Riley replied that violant deaths accaunt to "around 2,000".
He refused to provide further breakdown of the victims (by ethnicity, or how many of those died from NATO bombs, how many of those were KLA combatants who died fighting etc.)
Later "leak" from Tribunal suggested that this number icluded "more then 600 Serbs and other non-Albanians" but it was not official, so let's disregard it.
Let's just pretend (for a sake of argument) that all of these were Albanians, all civilians, and all killed for no reason by the Serbian security forces.
So, we have 2,108 so far.
Exhumations were halted for the winter.
They are never done in the winter, especially with the snow coverage.
It prevents collecting of the clues (such as empty bullet cases laying around, for exampe) which would be imortant while determining if victims were killed on the spot and burried, or perhaps brought from someplase else, etc.
Carla del Ponte announced continuation of the exhumations in the late spring (watery ground is also avoided, dry ground is needed)
While forensic have stopped, International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), didn't. They continued search for the missing persons throughout the winter.

http://www.grip.org/bdg/g1783.html

Notice date of the release.
May 9th, 2000.

Persons reported as unaccounted for during the Kosovo crisis 01.01.98 to 04.05.2000

Persons missing since 01.01.98. So this includes persons that are missing before the war (practically since start of major military operations).

As you can see they located (and were granted access to many Albanians in Serbian prisons).
No need to start yelling that they were innocent Alabanians thrown into jails simply because of thier ethnicity. Most of them were in jail for support to KLA such as sheltering, providing them with food, etc.
Then again, KLA was labbeled "terrorist organization" in Serbia.
I doubt that someone sheltering Al-Qaida in the US would not end up in jail.
Anyway.

"Total number of persons that remain unaccounted for:
of which: 3,323

· persons reportedly arrested by the Yugoslav Armed and Security Forces or abducted by Serb civilians: 1,968

· persons reportedly abducted by the Kosovo Liberation Army or Kosovo Albanian civilians: 366

· persons for whom there is no information on whereabouts: 989"

This doesn't give us an ethnic breakdown of the missing persons.
I think that is safe to say that "persons reportedly arrested by the Yugoslav Armed and Security Forces or abducted by Serb civilians" would be all Albanians.

"persons reportedly abducted by the Kosovo Liberation Army or Kosovo Albanian civilians" would be all non-Albanians.

"persons for whom there is no information on whereabouts", it's hard to say. My guess would be, mostly Albanians.

There is a sentence "The majority of the remaining around 3,300 still reported as missing are Kosovo Albanians, but they also importantly include Serbs, Roma and people from other communities."
Let's just pretend that all of the 3,323 are Albanians, all civilians, and all killed by Serbs for no reason at all.

So, we have 2,108 bodies found + 3,323 bodies not found. (let's say all Albanians)
Here, I have to say that I'm using term "bodies" for the lack of the better term (corps sound even worst). I hope that it will not offend anyone. If it did, I apologise.

That would make 5,431 in total.
These numbers (2,108 and 3,323) were even overlapping, as postive indentification was made to some of the found bodies that were subsequently taken of the list of the missing (being on both lists in the same time), but let's disregard that, too.
Now, I think that Fatom should really think about it.
Don't tell me that additional bodies were found later, etc.
I know.
It doesn't change total sum of bodies at all.
Let me explain.
5 bodies found + 5 bodies missin = 10 bodies total.
Now, additional 3 bodies were found.
Equation is now:
8 bodies found + 2 more bodies still missing = 10 bodies total again.

I really think that these are most relevant sources, Tribunal and International Red Cross Comitee.
Those are the poeple who actually counted the bodies and missing.
I agree with most etimates that today consider total number of casualties before and after the bombing started to be in vicinity of 6,000 on all sides. Albanians probably around 4,500 (not all victims of Serbs).

"I don't understand you guys why are you waisting time. You know as the world knows that Serbia has nothing to do with Kosovo any more, it's gone.
It might take few more month but we will all see that Kosovo will be independent.

I would suggest to Kosovo Serbs to cut their loses and concentrate there and accept reality (just like K-Alb accepted it for so many years) but in this case Serbs will not suffer of beatings and killings like K-Alb did. So for their own good accept Kosovo as a new country and build your life's there. Most of them they know the language anyway so they can start working and get on with life, cos Serbia can't do anything about it.

And like friend of mine from Belgrade told me that they don't like Serbs from Kosovo so the fact tells them that they will be better of in Kosovo as Kosovars. Good Luck
(John, 6. August 2007 12:18)"

By the same token Pristina should be realistic and cut its losses by accepting that it has lost north Kosovo -- more accurately it never did control the north.

I don't understand these comments "kosovo is already lost"? If its "lost" then why are you so involved in Kosovo's indenpendce? If only had Tito put more effort into better border security back in the 60' we wouldnt have this issue today. Then again, past is past. Some soultion must be found. Resolution 1244 is the best for all ethnic groups. I dont see how Kosovo can have a legitimate government with all the "gray" economy it produces every year. On it's own it would be a Little Columbia in the middle of Europe. Not good for anyone.

yepp, that´s the difference between the only superpower russia and the self-declared one: russia will gain at every outcome.

but mr. montgomery, kosmet is full of natural resources, but they are still mainly under serb control. and of course there is strategic importance, especially the planed pipline routes, but gazprom & rosneft made them in that corner of the world as outdated as anywhere else where they have been fighting with anglo-saxon energy-companies (to germany without poland, algeria, turkmenistan, and so on).

that´s the reason why there is just 950 men of the us-national guard in bondsteel. and they are the only one without exit-through-serbia-treaty, all other countries have signed such treaties with serbia.

open your eyes to reality, there won´t ever be an indiependent kosmet.

Mehanikarin first of all it was not Wilson who created Albania. Albania was created by Franz Joseph in 1911as a result of the Pig War between Serbia and Austria. Austrians loved Serbian persuto and paid very little for it “In 1906 the Austrians decided to take advantage of the situation and apply an economic stranglehold by stopping the import of all Serbian livestock. The Pig War had begun and would continue for five years with unexpected results for both sides. The Serbians reacted quickly by opening new trade with Egypt, Greece, Turkey and Germany through Salonica. That's right, Germany. It seems the Germans knew a good pig price when they saw one. By the end of the embargo's first year, the Serbians were exporting more livestock than ever before. Their economy was booming.” Albania was created to prevent Serbia from reaching the Adriatic and becoming a greater example to her Slav brothers in the Balkans.

Your second point has merit and you may have read recently released secret document American Policy for the 21st Century which calls for a military shift of American forces to the Balkans. Greeks, Turks, Romanians, Hungarians and many other numerically smaller groups who live in the Balkans are not Slavs.

You also comment that Albanians “have a strong and unwavering pro-western inclination” is far from the truth. Albanians have shifted alliances like leaves in a windstorm. During the Sino-Soviet split Albanian government invited China to install missiles in Albania. Recent love with America was purchased during the Clinton and Bush presidency via the Albanian lobby. .

Inconvenient truth about Kosovo is that US/UK/Nato broke international law.
They committed a crime and should pay for that.

It will be better for the whole world if they accept their guilt and correct consequences of their unlawful actions.

John or Hatichi i hate to put it to you this way but, how do you think you albanians are going to run Kosovo? Nato is there and it's there to stay. Anyway you look at it, you will always have somone telling you what to do.

Gregory,

John is not the only Albanian who is trying to create a scenery in which "objective" viewers are teaching others here how the situation in Kosovo is...

John is no better than adrian, nick or others who want to create a virtual reality ( "hell will break loose" etc. )

and as if nobody except themselves knew how it is in Kosmet, they continuously repeat the same phrases like "you have never been here" ...even if others who have been there, for example like german KFOR-commanders described a completely different situation. ( namely: calm and everything under control )

get used to that, those Albanians who are writing here are not representative!

Mr Harding: the Serbian armed forces would be responsible for defending the Serb and Roma enclaves? And then "the goal of lasting peace can be attained for ALL the citizens of Serbia living on its soil, regardless of nationality"? Hmm.. If Kosovo Serbs are Serbia's citizens, then surely so are Kosovo Albanians...

So, basically the West promised Kosovo Albanians independence to keep a lid on violence and now if they can't deliver the Kosovo Albanian leadership will start a war against the West.

If they do recognise a unilateral declaration of independence, the worldwide consequences are much, much worse than having to put down a rebellion by a poorly armed and trained bunch of ragtag fighters, who can't get any outside assistance. There will be no Iraq-style insurgency in Kosovo and Metohija.

World stability or the unpleasant task of having to put down erstwhile allies?

The US built up and then put down the Taliban. They'll do it again in Kosovo and Metohija, with much more success.

The Kosovo Albanian leadership should cut their losses and accept autonomy.

This article is contradictory. In "truth" number one it states that none of the world powers has any vital interests or anything at stake in Kosova/o and that Kosova/o due to its location, lack of minerals and population does not constitute a world crisis.
But then all the other "truths" contradict "truth" number one. All the other "truths" foresee major crises and major world problems, such as the dissolution of NATO, the EU and the UN charter. Which one is it? Judging by these other "truths" then Kosova/o is a world problem and the major powers have major stakes in Kosova/o. These other "truths" foresee major world disorder or the creation of a new world order because of Kosova/a. So is Kosovo/a an unimportant issue as stated in "truth" one or is it an issue which hold critical importance as stated in the other "truths". Judging from the article one thing is true. The author him/herself is confused about the importance of the Kosova/o isssue; thus I would say reading this article is more like reading a horoscope than being enlightened by truths.

Nehat Krasniqi writes, “the EU is run by America there is no one that can deny that”

Really? Why would you even write this offensive statement on this site? This was your big mistake. Do you think Germany or France would appreciate the very idea that the US runs the EU? This only hurts your cause for Kosovo to gain independence. You can't blame the Serbs for this one, you are your own enemy by writing such a thing.

I have no stomach to read more than half your article.
Regurgitation, repetition....
repeat of history........
This tradegy, this injustice over sovereign territory of a country. This anti-Serbianism. This abuse of one nation of people, of their culture, their history, their religion.
This illegal drama will remain in the minds of Serbs inside and outside Serbia for a very long time.
My soul feels a gratitude and a bond to Russia for their understanding of the Kosovo and Metohija issue. The spirit of a nation must never die.
In regard to your pontificating about the moves of America, Nato, Europe(EU), Russia and what benefit it is to whom, this is of no interest to the ordinary Serb and I for one, wished this was happening in another country and not Serbia if it had to happen at all.
p.s you do not promise what is not yours to give.

The only inconvenient truth here is that the US can't act as it likes as it did in the 1990s.

It is with abhorrent disgust that I have to read again and again the justifications for the KLA's tactics in the Balkans during the 1990s which was obviously sponsored by stealth Clinton cronies (as was the case in Croatia).

Rather than trying to educate and emancipate the Balkan's political elite and administer peace by a change of mind and language, America is pouring oil into the fire everytime it sees the chance to create havoc.

The hardline stance is to create as much economically unstable ministates in Europe so as to disperse unity on the "old" continent and exert influence, whiel at the same time, bash Russia for every of its attempts to use similar tactics.

While I believe that Kosovo needs to become independent, it should never be granted independence under today's circumstances when drug and human trafficking build the very substance of an impoverished economy.

All the biased media reports about the province's sprawling economy show images of cigarette and honey vendors when anyone sane enough should see that this is the lowest of the lowliest forms of economy.

I am simply disgusted by how the US is pushing its agenda in spite of all the facts that today's Kosovar political establishment is infiltrated with the worst possible criminals.

Like in Iraq, however, the US believes in can solve all the problems by just saying so.

Thank you and good night.

I have a proposal for all the Serbs commenting here.
Why don't we come up with claim of our own?
It shouldn't be a round number. How about 21,300?
Let's all memorize this number, and repeat it here endlessly.
So, whenever Albanian writes: "What about 12000 Albanians?" we can write back. "What about 21300 Serbs that were killed in Kosovo?"
Sure, we'll never have a relevant link or anything else to support this claim, or to show how did we get to this number. But, should someone here question our claim, we can do as Lili did.
"Just disgusting, Do you really think that one thousand less will make you not guilty? "
Then we simply point the finger.
"Yes you did these crimes you who voted for theses criminals"
etc.
Just in case that they dare to question our claim.
So, Lili. What about 21,300 Serbs killed in Kosovo?
And if there is a thousand less, does that make you less guilty? Yes, Lili, you did this.

1. It is amazing to see how many American commentors see Kosovo as a kind of cold war (US-Russia) match. For much of the rest of the world - who try to solve the conflict with arguments - this makes them look like Neanderthalers.

10. Until 1997 an armed uprising in Kosovo had no change of succes. So the Rugova approach was the only that made sense. After that time foreign (Iranian?) money and Western diplomatic commitment changed the rules of the game.

To Tom Harding are you sure your name is not Tom Hardingvich?
I have two points to disagree on with Mr. Montgomery's editorial:
1. The US has had and continues to have great interest in Kosovo and Albania for some time now. Dating back to President Wilson's insistance on creating an Albanian state, continuing through Bush Sr.'s administration and their direct warning to Serbia in the late 80's and early '90s that should Serbia attack Kosovo, Serbia would be met with a swift and resolute action from the West. This promise of course was delivered on by a democrat president who also circumvented the UN SC in the late 90s. Which then brings us to the current conservative republican administration that is just continuing to implement the US policy regarding Kosovo that has been in the making for over decades now and has been unwarvering with respect to which party dominates the political scene in the US. As a result, promising independence was not just another of Mr. Bush's "blunders". I tend to agree that the US would have much rather seen broad autonomy for Kosovo, like the one being promised by the Serbian gov't nowdays, in the late 80's and early '90s. But it is clear to the powers that be that this is no longer possible. One thing that Mr. Montgomery is correct about is the fact that Ahtisaari's package was the best solution for Kosovo, and as a result of Serbia's continued arrogance towards the western powers the serbs in Northern Kosovo will suffer the most.

2. Second, Mr. Montgomery's statement that Kosovo is of no importance to the US is in direct contradiction with the fact that the largest military base in European soil is Camp Bondsteel in Kosovo. Strategic position and natural resources are there, and the fact is that investments are need to be made, for these resources to be exploited. But, more important then any other resource that Mr. Montgomery seems to overlook in his editiorial is the Albanian people themselves. This is the only people in the Ballkans who are of non-slavic dissent and who are non-christian (specifically non-orthodox) that have a strong and unwavering pro-western inclination. Empowering and strengthening Albanians, will give the West the best opportunity it has to limit and counter Russia's sphere of influnce in this otherwise largely slavic, orthodox, and pro-Russian region, which as Mr. Montgomery rightly points out is of a concern to the west. But this concern is nothing new for the west, it was always there that is why the Albanians have their support.

Lili, you are turning things up side down here. Albanians are the one that are counting bodies all the time. But, we don't know how do they get this number?
So, Sreten pointed out to a people who have a duty to count the bodies.
And I we are aware of the fact that Red Cross Report may give you some different figures today.
There is appearantly 1,700 Serbs missing in Kosovo today. But they dissapeared later, obviously, not during the war.
Now, there has been someone else counting bodies in Kosovo, and it was not a Serb. (We all know that there were no Serbian government officials, organs or any NGO's active in Kosovo after June '99.)
But, someone have recorded, to say it in your words "there was 12800 bodies burried in kosova,with names and surnames known.."
Obviously, they are not on the list of missing persons, as their names and surnames are known.
It's also obvious that some organization have gathered infromation, including names and surnames, etc. and established from collected data this number to be appearantly 12,800.
Not 128 or 128,000 but 12,800.
By default, who ever this organization was, it was not Serbian. It could have been only Albanian (Kosovo Interim government?) or Western (UNMIK? Some Western NGO?)
We don't know, because who ever mentions number of 12000 never reveals the source.
Well, who ever it was, it failed to notify Tribunal, or to invite forensic team (there was more then 30 of forensic teams in Kosovo at one point in time, looking precisely for the victims)to exhume some of these bodies and provide Tribunal with proper forensic reports.
How is it that Tribunal never found out about them? If they had those forensic reports some trials would have been a breeze.
I suppouse, nobody in the West or among Kosovo Albanians was interested in impicating Milosevic?
A month ago there was a forensic team somewhere in Kosovo on the site where there were suspected bodies.(they didn't find any on that occasion).
Yet, they simply ignore those 12,800 bodies with known whereabouts?
You people should be demonstrating day and night in front of UNMIK and Kosovo Government Offices, demanding resignations for such incompetence.
I say incompetence not to use stronger word.
I fear reasons for failing to come up with forensic reports to be forwarded to Hague Tribunal could be far more sinister.
Seems to me that they are trying to sweep those victims under the carpet.
Could there be conspiracy of silence between Western powers and Kosovo government in order to minimize Serbian attrocities?
Of course, we all know about Batajnica camp. But, try to follow Sretens logic. More bodies found, less bodies missing. Sum is the same.

I'm sorry Lili if I have upset you. I understand that this is one sensitive issue, and certainly I undertand your sensitivity, especially if you have personally lost someone dear.
However, I just want to stress that over all this time I have seen this number appear over and over again. It seems to be at odds with official numbers. They simply don't match.
I would like you to tell me your source.
Understand that I'm only searching for truth here, and if it's true that 12,800 Albanians have been killed I will find that very regretable, and I will accept this as truth.
I don't find 5,000 to be less regretable at all, as for me 5,000 is neither "only", nor insignificant.
I believe that Albanians like their parents, sibilings and children, just as much as Serbian do.
Sorry, if I ofended you, this was not my intention.

The truth of the matter is the Serbs are clearly to blame for this problematic issue at hand. They let the Albanian population in Kosovo escalate to a non-controllable 95%. It is absurd for Serbia to want to control 2 million hostile inhabitants. Should Serbia somehow prevail in keeping Kosovo, you think the Albanians are going to sit by idley ? The Americans have already promised them independence, the Albanians have no reason to negotiate, all the Albanians are doing now is simply going through the motions to appease all those countries who are opposed to Kosovo's independence. At this point in the game, there are two clear choices. Cut Kosovo loose or go in with tanks.

I really liked these "truths" well some of them, but most of them were just opinions that really didn't have any factual backings.

How about some real facts:

1.The whole world wants the Kosova Independence thing already so there can be prosperity in SouthEast.

2.USA has won since it has established a huge base in Kosova and any action towards USA pose as minimal threat considering that Instanbul-Kosova is a corridor of trouble (or can be).

3.Belgrade is the biggest loser after losing so many yugoslavian wars and finally Kosova
Belgrade loses its influence, its power and everything that it has hypnotized its people to believe that its the integral part of its identity.

4.Russia is the second biggest loser. Wanting world presence with all this anti-west views Russia now is viewed as the person that no country will listen. After having repeated threats that russia will cut gas, oil, and veto anything of the west--the EU is left to just turn its back on Russia.

5.Republic of Kosova will be a much better place than any Belgrade visionary can envision. The Ahtisari plans gives rights to minorities that a lot of countries would call inhumanly generous. There is already contributions towards the Kosovar-Serbs reintegrating (the minorities regreting not taking part in elections, the Univ of Prishtina the serbs talking about returning, etc).

6.Belgrade is losing influence into its ethnic-serbs such as in Kosova because of its headstrong and incorrect position on world politics.

7.NATO and KFOR are not going to be disabled or left open for any attack.

8.In the upcoming months more and more power will be given to Prishtina to prepare for the partial implementation of the Ahtisari plan.

9.New talks will show how desperate Belgrade is, not to mention how it will prepare serbia for "hard problems ahead."

10.Belgrade being furious with outcome will run raged for a while burning mosques, injuring minorities in North (hungarians) and destroying embassys'.

If objectivity is a criteria to be used in posting comments in this site then I think most of you who are opposing Kosovo’s independence (and some even proposing the Serbian army to be dislocated there ) should not post in here. How logical it is to believe that the same people who killed 12500 civilians + 3500 who are unaccounted for, raped thousands of women and deported half of the Albanian population of 2 million to rule the same victims. Under what kind of informative darkness are you people living? Do you have any idea what has happened in Kosovo for the last 8 years? Wishing is something, but what is possible in this case is only independence. You had full control over the territory and you lost it due to Albanian insurgency, now you cant have one soldier in there and you want to take over? Wake up and smell the coffee; and for the sake of your brothers that are still left in Kosovo accept the broadest autonomy given to Serbs by the Ahtisari plan, which by the way grants more rights to a minority than any other country in the world (check if you don’t believe it).

Cheers

Some truths in this article are of no relevance. However, what we really should concentrate on is to learn from our mistakes. Don’t forget past mistakes or make the new ones.

The golden chance to resolve this issue was just after the war. The UN together with NATO should have treated Serbia as Germany was treated after the second world war. This of course would have stripped Serbia from her say over Kosovo. The question is , is it to late to do so?, answer is No. In my view Serbia’s lack und unwillingness to play a constructive role over the past 8 years leaves the international community with no other choice but to negotiate the status only with Kosovars.

Serbia was defeated and should be treated as such.

Hope B92 will publish my comments this time?

FOR ADMINISTRATOR / I do not understand why my comments are not allowed, since I did not use any heath speech, unlike some of your audience?!
Or perhaps it is not allowed to talk about the genocide that ocurred in the Balkans?!
Thanks for your answer!

So Kosovo is actually lost...in other words Serbia doesnt control it not to the Albanians? Why is this place so important. I saw it on google earth...nothing specil about it. Isnt it the poorest region in europe? Isnt it the Jerusalem of Serbians religious hertitage.. I was in Isreal.. you should see how the invested tons of money to build the infrastructure. Pristina looks like chernobyl. If i Owned something and loved it.. I would take care of it.

you can find the names of all the victimsin the reports of the international red cross and at the human right defense group of prishtina.Or at the missing group organisation in prishtina.
Today ,serbians groups and albanian ones agree that there is around 500 missings serbs and around 2200albanians ones (exact number at the red cross toO)

to sreten,thanks for apologizing for your post.

Thank you Lili, for understanding. I spent last 3 hours on computer searching for those lists that you've mentioned. I couldn't find them.
But I found this.

http://www.unmikonline.org/pub/news/nl103.html

It's latest UNMIK news (No.103)

After talking about President's Bush visit to Kosovo there is an interesting article titled "Serb delegation from Belgrade visit Suva Reka"

"The fact is that the 188 graves at the UNMIK gravesite in Suva Reka/Suharekë contain unidentified bodies exhumed and reburied in 2000 by the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia (ICTY). The Suva Reka/Suharekë gravesite contains no new bodies and no new mass grave has been uncovered in Kosovo.

Of the 3,900 bodies exhumed by ICTY, 1,256 remain unidentified. These bodies have been reburied in the municipalities where they were found, either in UNMIK graveyards like the one at Suva Reka/Suharekë or in municipal graveyards. The visit to Suva Reka/Suharekë allowed the Serbian delegation to see the situation for themselves."

If you can please send a link to the list of names. You can post it here or email it to me directly to pacimbum@hotmail.com.
I would like to get to the bottom of this.

lilli proof is in the pudding.Give us some sources
for your claims oh! whats that your dog ate your homework huh.UN sources or it did not happen.If Serbs as albanians claim lost Kosovo-Metohija becuase of some dead albanians then the albanians have lost Kosovo by that same logic becuase of some dead Serbs.Only the diffrence is Serbs keep dying and fleeing their own land.Remember the war did not start and Serbia did not react becuase albanians were sitting on their hands and being angels.For our peoples evil deeds we Serbs have paid dearly in every conflict.

Every one has right to an opinion as a mater of fact I agree with John that Serbs of Serbia see Kosovan Serbs as lowest clas of people,as I happend to hear that my self .
I think we all know tha Serbia does not give a damn about Kosovan Serbs.
Brothers from Russia,what a tricky game,they are not able for themselfs, 65% of Russian peopulation live under poverty line,they lack elementary conditions that a humman need to survive,so why we do not aske ourselfs what we want to gain from Russia or what'd/or will Kosovan Serbs get from Belgrade.
I would aske what did Serbia won for the last 17 years by Russia's influence:economic and social life 0 ,join EU 0 ,international relation -0,
Enemies -all balkans and Europe.
Wake up leave the last part of ex Yugoslavia alone,Kosovans been doing well for the last 8 years without Belgrad,its military presence,its opression,discrimination etc.
Kosovo could be taken as an example as a small democratic country which it has everything what it takes to join EU.

As stated some of my previous notes. Its very wrong to assume that America has no interest as its base Bonstill and on the hand having 2 future votes in the EU parliament from its closest ally in the FUTURE EU Albania & Kosova and finally the EU is run by America there is no one that can deny that after the fall of the Berlin Wall when the America pushed the soviets back 3,000 kilometres. And this will not change unless America and its free and democratic countries such as the UK who favour Independency for Kosova. Serbia's biggest mistake was to elect the radical party and to stick with its so called traditional ally Russia. Russia is using serbia as a scope got to try to influence or change its path by emerging in the force in the EU we all this will never happen America as I stated is trying to put the corruption conniving and manipulative attitude back into Russia where it was always there, if serbia decides to go with them instead of the EU its your loss either way Kosova will never again be part of Serbia a Russian loving so called state.

The inconvenient truth is that European powers and Russia gave Serbia 100 years to assimilate or kill or move its Kosovo Albanians elsewhere. Serbia failed. Its former friends then said "enough".

Somebody else here said "cut it loose or send in the tanks"... I will add that Serbia tried the tanks option and failed. All that's left now is "cut it loose". The sooner we get peace, the sooner we get peace. 2 million Albanians will not change their mind on independence just because Kostunica says so.

It's pretty pathetic that the Serb leadership offers autonomy at this point in time. Too little too late. It might have worked in 1996. Albanians have no reason to accept Serbian sovereignty now. History shows that Serbian sovereignty represents a threat to their existence. The only solution is a solution which prevents the entry now or in the future of Serbian forces in the territory of Kosovo. That is called independence. It is a done deal now, and we need a peace treaty, we don't need silly autonomy negotiations.

"Dear "John":

Your writing style and poor cadence in English betray the fact that you are an Albanian pretending to be an outsider with an objective opinion. The truth is you share a national Albanian agenda to steal Serbian land in violation of clear and well established international law. 50 years of illegal Albanian infiltration cannot be permitted to erase 1000s of years of Serbian culture and history.
(Gregory, 6. August 2007 16:16) "

"Dear Gregory"
1000 yrs of serbian occupation can not be permited to erase thousend of years of albanian culture and history.

"The Ahtishaari plan gave the Serbs of Kosovo nothing of any importance. It gave the Albanians everything they wanted. The worst thing the Serbs of Kosovo could do was to embrace a plan that gave them absolutely nothing. An Albanian run police force, ALbanian run education, albanian run roads and transportation, provinces that could be abolished by albanians in the parliament. Its the worst plan imaginable for Serbs.
(Brian, 6. August 2007 15:03)"

C'mon read carefully what you are writing, if that is so , does not make it more sence that more the 2 Mil albanians do not want to live like 100 thousend ( minority ) serbs like that in Serbia, so to me it sounds that this "broad autonomy" of yours is copyed Ahtisaris plan, but the numbers are diffrenet 2 Mil versus , less then 100 thousend

"... On it's own it would be a Little Columbia in the middle of Europe. Not good for anyone.
(Speaker, 6. August 2007 15:49) ..."

...or it could be a little Switzerland,becouse if it will be a liitle Colombia, then what in the hell you want it so much ?

to the serbian guy who is counting the bodies...

seems that you miss an episod of the story! there was 12800 bodies burried in kosova,with names and surnames known..
You you are talking of the missings,from which some 2000and so have been found under the feet of your sodiers in he batajnica camp,some were found in the frigorific truck found in the SAVA were you enjoy swimming ...among our deads..
yes there are somewhat more 2500 still missing,2200albanians and the otherserbian roma and other..see the RED CROSS REPORT about this.
you are denying the number of your victims, eight years after! Just disgusting, Do you really think that one thousand less will make you not guilty? Yes you did these crimes you who voted for theses criminals,you that are still it insignifiant enough to have "only" 5000victims.

Dear ''Gregory''

Perhaps you want to meet up so we can discuss this further and you can convince yourself weather I'm Albanian, Serb or whatever you might think.

I am saying my opinion here just like everyone else. Thats having friends from both sides and reading about the region.

Lili

"seems that you miss an episod of the story! there was 12800 bodies burried in kosova,with names and surnames known..
You you are talking of the missings,from which some 2000and so have been found under the feet of your sodiers in he batajnica camp,some were found in the frigorific truck found in the SAVA were you enjoy swimming ...among our deads..
yes there are somewhat more 2500 still missing,2200albanians and the otherserbian roma and other..see the RED CROSS REPORT about this.
you are denying the number of your victims, eight years after! Just disgusting, Do you really think that one thousand less will make you not guilty? Yes you did these crimes you who voted for theses criminals,you that are still it insignifiant enough to have "only" 5000victims."

What you have to understand in these casualties are included the ones that were killed by NATO and the UCK/KLA ones as well, not just the Serbs. It is well known that UCK killed anyone that reffused to co-operate with them and that turned out to be thousands of Albans, Serbs, Gypsis, etc. So in the end Serbs probably killed less then 5000. During the whole war with NATO 200 Serbian soldiers were killed which is all of our remaining casualties were all civilian.

here is a place were you can check for the names of the victims,since the beginning.
www.cdhrf.org

just check the monthly list published:
But there is a book with all the names published by these associations for the missings and the red cross in kosova

I don't understand you guys why are you waisting time. You know as the world knows that Serbia has nothing to do with Kosovo any more, it's gone.
It might take few more month but we will all see that Kosovo will be independent.

I would suggest to Kosovo Serbs to cut their loses and concentrate there and accept reality (just like K-Alb accepted it for so many years) but in this case Serbs will not suffer of beatings and killings like K-Alb did. So for their own good accept Kosovo as a new country and build your life's there. Most of them they know the language anyway so they can start working and get on with life, cos Serbia can't do anything about it.

And like friend of mine from Belgrade told me that they don't like Serbs from Kosovo so the fact tells them that they will be better of in Kosovo as Kosovars. Good Luck

Every one has right to an opinion as a mater of fact I agree with John that Serbs of Serbia see Kosovan Serbs as lowest clas of people,as I happend to hear that my self .
I think we all know tha Serbia does not give a damn about Kosovan Serbs.
Brothers from Russia,what a tricky game,they are not able for themselfs, 65% of Russian peopulation live under poverty line,they lack elementary conditions that a humman need to survive,so why we do not aske ourselfs what we want to gain from Russia or what'd/or will Kosovan Serbs get from Belgrade.
I would aske what did Serbia won for the last 17 years by Russia's influence:economic and social life 0 ,join EU 0 ,international relation -0,
Enemies -all balkans and Europe.
Wake up leave the last part of ex Yugoslavia alone,Kosovans been doing well for the last 8 years without Belgrad,its military presence,its opression,discrimination etc.
Kosovo could be taken as an example as a small democratic country which it has everything what it takes to join EU.

I really liked these "truths" well some of them, but most of them were just opinions that really didn't have any factual backings.

How about some real facts:

1.The whole world wants the Kosova Independence thing already so there can be prosperity in SouthEast.

2.USA has won since it has established a huge base in Kosova and any action towards USA pose as minimal threat considering that Instanbul-Kosova is a corridor of trouble (or can be).

3.Belgrade is the biggest loser after losing so many yugoslavian wars and finally Kosova
Belgrade loses its influence, its power and everything that it has hypnotized its people to believe that its the integral part of its identity.

4.Russia is the second biggest loser. Wanting world presence with all this anti-west views Russia now is viewed as the person that no country will listen. After having repeated threats that russia will cut gas, oil, and veto anything of the west--the EU is left to just turn its back on Russia.

5.Republic of Kosova will be a much better place than any Belgrade visionary can envision. The Ahtisari plans gives rights to minorities that a lot of countries would call inhumanly generous. There is already contributions towards the Kosovar-Serbs reintegrating (the minorities regreting not taking part in elections, the Univ of Prishtina the serbs talking about returning, etc).

6.Belgrade is losing influence into its ethnic-serbs such as in Kosova because of its headstrong and incorrect position on world politics.

7.NATO and KFOR are not going to be disabled or left open for any attack.

8.In the upcoming months more and more power will be given to Prishtina to prepare for the partial implementation of the Ahtisari plan.

9.New talks will show how desperate Belgrade is, not to mention how it will prepare serbia for "hard problems ahead."

10.Belgrade being furious with outcome will run raged for a while burning mosques, injuring minorities in North (hungarians) and destroying embassys'.

So, basically the West promised Kosovo Albanians independence to keep a lid on violence and now if they can't deliver the Kosovo Albanian leadership will start a war against the West.

If they do recognise a unilateral declaration of independence, the worldwide consequences are much, much worse than having to put down a rebellion by a poorly armed and trained bunch of ragtag fighters, who can't get any outside assistance. There will be no Iraq-style insurgency in Kosovo and Metohija.

World stability or the unpleasant task of having to put down erstwhile allies?

The US built up and then put down the Taliban. They'll do it again in Kosovo and Metohija, with much more success.

The Kosovo Albanian leadership should cut their losses and accept autonomy.

Some truths in this article are of no relevance. However, what we really should concentrate on is to learn from our mistakes. Don’t forget past mistakes or make the new ones.

The golden chance to resolve this issue was just after the war. The UN together with NATO should have treated Serbia as Germany was treated after the second world war. This of course would have stripped Serbia from her say over Kosovo. The question is , is it to late to do so?, answer is No. In my view Serbia’s lack und unwillingness to play a constructive role over the past 8 years leaves the international community with no other choice but to negotiate the status only with Kosovars.

Serbia was defeated and should be treated as such.

Hope B92 will publish my comments this time?

Under 1244, Serbia has the right to secure it's borders including kosovo. Too much is made about the military threat of Albanians when the most efficient and effective solution would be to allow the Serbian Armed Forces to resume it's responsibilities for the protection of it's citizens-that is, the numerous Serbian and Roma enclaves throughout the province. The Serbian Armed Forces know the territory as well as the enemy much better than KFOR. Furthermore, it is endowed with a characteristic that is absent with any foreign occupying power: love for it's own people. It is only a matter of time before the EU realizes that by working in concert with the S.A.F, that the goal of lasting peace can be attained for ALL the citizens of Serbia living on it's soil, regardless of nationality.

So it was ok to send in the bombers in 1999, but its not ok now for NATO to do its job and implement Resolution 1244.

Maybe NATO should leave the region altogether.

So, basically the West promised Kosovo Albanians independence to keep a lid on violence and now if they can't deliver the Kosovo Albanian leadership will start a war against the West.

If they do recognise a unilateral declaration of independence, the worldwide consequences are much, much worse than having to put down a rebellion by a poorly armed and trained bunch of ragtag fighters, who can't get any outside assistance. There will be no Iraq-style insurgency in Kosovo and Metohija.

World stability or the unpleasant task of having to put down erstwhile allies?

The US built up and then put down the Taliban. They'll do it again in Kosovo and Metohija, with much more success.

The Kosovo Albanian leadership should cut their losses and accept autonomy.

If objectivity is a criteria to be used in posting comments in this site then I think most of you who are opposing Kosovo’s independence (and some even proposing the Serbian army to be dislocated there ) should not post in here. How logical it is to believe that the same people who killed 12500 civilians + 3500 who are unaccounted for, raped thousands of women and deported half of the Albanian population of 2 million to rule the same victims. Under what kind of informative darkness are you people living? Do you have any idea what has happened in Kosovo for the last 8 years? Wishing is something, but what is possible in this case is only independence. You had full control over the territory and you lost it due to Albanian insurgency, now you cant have one soldier in there and you want to take over? Wake up and smell the coffee; and for the sake of your brothers that are still left in Kosovo accept the broadest autonomy given to Serbs by the Ahtisari plan, which by the way grants more rights to a minority than any other country in the world (check if you don’t believe it).

Cheers

The inconvenient truth is that European powers and Russia gave Serbia 100 years to assimilate or kill or move its Kosovo Albanians elsewhere. Serbia failed. Its former friends then said "enough".

Somebody else here said "cut it loose or send in the tanks"... I will add that Serbia tried the tanks option and failed. All that's left now is "cut it loose". The sooner we get peace, the sooner we get peace. 2 million Albanians will not change their mind on independence just because Kostunica says so.

It's pretty pathetic that the Serb leadership offers autonomy at this point in time. Too little too late. It might have worked in 1996. Albanians have no reason to accept Serbian sovereignty now. History shows that Serbian sovereignty represents a threat to their existence. The only solution is a solution which prevents the entry now or in the future of Serbian forces in the territory of Kosovo. That is called independence. It is a done deal now, and we need a peace treaty, we don't need silly autonomy negotiations.

Ten real truths about Kosovo:
1. The Contact Group Trio has different interests in resolving Kosovo issue: the USA would like to split further former Yugoslavia and to enhance Muslim community in Europe; the EU -to gain new economic market; Russia - to help its Sebian brothers, and not to undermine the UN Charter or create any bad precedent.
2. The US has the biggest vested (military) interest in Kosovo: Bondsteel Air Force and Army Base.3.If a broad-based autonomy in the framework in Serbia is brought about, all three will be the winners + Kosovo.
4. Such precedents are unlikely. But the main culprit in sturring up regional tension there will be the USA and its cronies.5. The EU is interested in enhancening all-out security in the Balkans, in principle, but is being misled by the USA.6. NATO is not at risk at all in Kosovo, if the process of resoliving Kosovo issue will be conducted peacefully. 7. President Bush's statements made in Albania and Bulgaria
are mere provocations or outline the lack of professionalism among his advisers.8. The key international player is Serbia only, and nobody else, because Kosovo is a part of it, and not a part of the USA. 9. The future of Kosovo will be determined by Serbia, and, therefore, it will be a bright one. 10. The KLA should be disbanded, because it does not meet the requirements of Serbia and the world community at large.

"Dear "John":

Your writing style and poor cadence in English betray the fact that you are an Albanian pretending to be an outsider with an objective opinion. The truth is you share a national Albanian agenda to steal Serbian land in violation of clear and well established international law. 50 years of illegal Albanian infiltration cannot be permitted to erase 1000s of years of Serbian culture and history.
(Gregory, 6. August 2007 16:16) "

"Dear Gregory"
1000 yrs of serbian occupation can not be permited to erase thousend of years of albanian culture and history.

to the serbian guy who is counting the bodies...

seems that you miss an episod of the story! there was 12800 bodies burried in kosova,with names and surnames known..
You you are talking of the missings,from which some 2000and so have been found under the feet of your sodiers in he batajnica camp,some were found in the frigorific truck found in the SAVA were you enjoy swimming ...among our deads..
yes there are somewhat more 2500 still missing,2200albanians and the otherserbian roma and other..see the RED CROSS REPORT about this.
you are denying the number of your victims, eight years after! Just disgusting, Do you really think that one thousand less will make you not guilty? Yes you did these crimes you who voted for theses criminals,you that are still it insignifiant enough to have "only" 5000victims.

Tombo
I agree 100%

The truth of the matter is the Serbs are clearly to blame for this problematic issue at hand. They let the Albanian population in Kosovo escalate to a non-controllable 95%. It is absurd for Serbia to want to control 2 million hostile inhabitants. Should Serbia somehow prevail in keeping Kosovo, you think the Albanians are going to sit by idley ? The Americans have already promised them independence, the Albanians have no reason to negotiate, all the Albanians are doing now is simply going through the motions to appease all those countries who are opposed to Kosovo's independence. At this point in the game, there are two clear choices. Cut Kosovo loose or go in with tanks.

As stated some of my previous notes. Its very wrong to assume that America has no interest as its base Bonstill and on the hand having 2 future votes in the EU parliament from its closest ally in the FUTURE EU Albania & Kosova and finally the EU is run by America there is no one that can deny that after the fall of the Berlin Wall when the America pushed the soviets back 3,000 kilometres. And this will not change unless America and its free and democratic countries such as the UK who favour Independency for Kosova. Serbia's biggest mistake was to elect the radical party and to stick with its so called traditional ally Russia. Russia is using serbia as a scope got to try to influence or change its path by emerging in the force in the EU we all this will never happen America as I stated is trying to put the corruption conniving and manipulative attitude back into Russia where it was always there, if serbia decides to go with them instead of the EU its your loss either way Kosova will never again be part of Serbia a Russian loving so called state.

"The Ahtishaari plan gave the Serbs of Kosovo nothing of any importance. It gave the Albanians everything they wanted. The worst thing the Serbs of Kosovo could do was to embrace a plan that gave them absolutely nothing. An Albanian run police force, ALbanian run education, albanian run roads and transportation, provinces that could be abolished by albanians in the parliament. Its the worst plan imaginable for Serbs.
(Brian, 6. August 2007 15:03)"

C'mon read carefully what you are writing, if that is so , does not make it more sence that more the 2 Mil albanians do not want to live like 100 thousend ( minority ) serbs like that in Serbia, so to me it sounds that this "broad autonomy" of yours is copyed Ahtisaris plan, but the numbers are diffrenet 2 Mil versus , less then 100 thousend

"... On it's own it would be a Little Columbia in the middle of Europe. Not good for anyone.
(Speaker, 6. August 2007 15:49) ..."

...or it could be a little Switzerland,becouse if it will be a liitle Colombia, then what in the hell you want it so much ?

"I don't understand you guys why are you waisting time. You know as the world knows that Serbia has nothing to do with Kosovo any more, it's gone.
It might take few more month but we will all see that Kosovo will be independent.

I would suggest to Kosovo Serbs to cut their loses and concentrate there and accept reality (just like K-Alb accepted it for so many years) but in this case Serbs will not suffer of beatings and killings like K-Alb did. So for their own good accept Kosovo as a new country and build your life's there. Most of them they know the language anyway so they can start working and get on with life, cos Serbia can't do anything about it.

And like friend of mine from Belgrade told me that they don't like Serbs from Kosovo so the fact tells them that they will be better of in Kosovo as Kosovars. Good Luck
(John, 6. August 2007 12:18)"

By the same token Pristina should be realistic and cut its losses by accepting that it has lost north Kosovo -- more accurately it never did control the north.

The Ahtishaari plan gave the Serbs of Kosovo nothing of any importance. It gave the Albanians everything they wanted. The worst thing the Serbs of Kosovo could do was to embrace a plan that gave them absolutely nothing. An Albanian run police force, ALbanian run education, albanian run roads and transportation, provinces that could be abolished by albanians in the parliament. Its the worst plan imaginable for Serbs.

I don't understand these comments "kosovo is already lost"? If its "lost" then why are you so involved in Kosovo's indenpendce? If only had Tito put more effort into better border security back in the 60' we wouldnt have this issue today. Then again, past is past. Some soultion must be found. Resolution 1244 is the best for all ethnic groups. I dont see how Kosovo can have a legitimate government with all the "gray" economy it produces every year. On it's own it would be a Little Columbia in the middle of Europe. Not good for anyone.

Dear "John":

Your writing style and poor cadence in English betray the fact that you are an Albanian pretending to be an outsider with an objective opinion. The truth is you share a national Albanian agenda to steal Serbian land in violation of clear and well established international law. 50 years of illegal Albanian infiltration cannot be permitted to erase 1000s of years of Serbian culture and history.

Nehat Krasniqi writes, “the EU is run by America there is no one that can deny that”

Really? Why would you even write this offensive statement on this site? This was your big mistake. Do you think Germany or France would appreciate the very idea that the US runs the EU? This only hurts your cause for Kosovo to gain independence. You can't blame the Serbs for this one, you are your own enemy by writing such a thing.

There is another comment that I have to make. Many in the past have told me that it is useless to post links to relevant sites, as majority of Alabnians will continue to talk about 12.000 deaths. I'll do it anyway.
The number of dead Albanians appears to be rising.

"How logical it is to believe that the same people who killed 12500 civilians + 3500 who are unaccounted for, raped thousands of women and deported half of the Albanian population of 2 million to rule the same victims." said Fatos.

Let's examine the issue one more time, (I'll admit that I'm tired of it).

Exhumation in Kosovo started shortly after NATO arrival in Kosovo. Majority of suspected graves were oppened. Especially those that were believed to contain most bodies.
The result was 2,108 bodies.
This was annaunced on Nov 19th, at the press conference at UN in New York by Carla del Ponte.

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/pbrooke/p&t/Balkans/dmonkosovo/199912

I have to agree with the author (David Morrison) of the article that "2,108 people dead is 2,108 too many."

He also asked many relevant question (as many people did).

"Who are they?
The ICTY have exhumed 2,108 bodies so far. But they have given no other information about the graves or the bodies found within them. For example, can the bodies be identified as Albanian or were some of them Serb civilians or Yugoslav military personnel? Were they obviously the result of the massacre of Albanians by Serbs? Were any of them identifiable as casualties of fighting between the KLA and Yugoslav forces or Serb civilians? Were any of them obviously civilian victims of NATO bombs? Is it possible to say approximately when the killings took place in each case?"

On subsequent occasion spokesman of Tribunal (I believe that it was Paul Riley at the time) was asked those questions.
It was obvious that many of the victim died in NATO bombing, and that some of them are either Serb civilians, or Serb soldiers who died. Some even had cause of death determined by forencis teams to be "natural causes"
When asked about number of people who died from natural causes vs. violant deaths Paul Riley replied that violant deaths accaunt to "around 2,000".
He refused to provide further breakdown of the victims (by ethnicity, or how many of those died from NATO bombs, how many of those were KLA combatants who died fighting etc.)
Later "leak" from Tribunal suggested that this number icluded "more then 600 Serbs and other non-Albanians" but it was not official, so let's disregard it.
Let's just pretend (for a sake of argument) that all of these were Albanians, all civilians, and all killed for no reason by the Serbian security forces.
So, we have 2,108 so far.
Exhumations were halted for the winter.
They are never done in the winter, especially with the snow coverage.
It prevents collecting of the clues (such as empty bullet cases laying around, for exampe) which would be imortant while determining if victims were killed on the spot and burried, or perhaps brought from someplase else, etc.
Carla del Ponte announced continuation of the exhumations in the late spring (watery ground is also avoided, dry ground is needed)
While forensic have stopped, International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), didn't. They continued search for the missing persons throughout the winter.

http://www.grip.org/bdg/g1783.html

Notice date of the release.
May 9th, 2000.

Persons reported as unaccounted for during the Kosovo crisis 01.01.98 to 04.05.2000

Persons missing since 01.01.98. So this includes persons that are missing before the war (practically since start of major military operations).

As you can see they located (and were granted access to many Albanians in Serbian prisons).
No need to start yelling that they were innocent Alabanians thrown into jails simply because of thier ethnicity. Most of them were in jail for support to KLA such as sheltering, providing them with food, etc.
Then again, KLA was labbeled "terrorist organization" in Serbia.
I doubt that someone sheltering Al-Qaida in the US would not end up in jail.
Anyway.

"Total number of persons that remain unaccounted for:
of which: 3,323

· persons reportedly arrested by the Yugoslav Armed and Security Forces or abducted by Serb civilians: 1,968

· persons reportedly abducted by the Kosovo Liberation Army or Kosovo Albanian civilians: 366

· persons for whom there is no information on whereabouts: 989"

This doesn't give us an ethnic breakdown of the missing persons.
I think that is safe to say that "persons reportedly arrested by the Yugoslav Armed and Security Forces or abducted by Serb civilians" would be all Albanians.

"persons reportedly abducted by the Kosovo Liberation Army or Kosovo Albanian civilians" would be all non-Albanians.

"persons for whom there is no information on whereabouts", it's hard to say. My guess would be, mostly Albanians.

There is a sentence "The majority of the remaining around 3,300 still reported as missing are Kosovo Albanians, but they also importantly include Serbs, Roma and people from other communities."
Let's just pretend that all of the 3,323 are Albanians, all civilians, and all killed by Serbs for no reason at all.

So, we have 2,108 bodies found + 3,323 bodies not found. (let's say all Albanians)
Here, I have to say that I'm using term "bodies" for the lack of the better term (corps sound even worst). I hope that it will not offend anyone. If it did, I apologise.

That would make 5,431 in total.
These numbers (2,108 and 3,323) were even overlapping, as postive indentification was made to some of the found bodies that were subsequently taken of the list of the missing (being on both lists in the same time), but let's disregard that, too.
Now, I think that Fatom should really think about it.
Don't tell me that additional bodies were found later, etc.
I know.
It doesn't change total sum of bodies at all.
Let me explain.
5 bodies found + 5 bodies missin = 10 bodies total.
Now, additional 3 bodies were found.
Equation is now:
8 bodies found + 2 more bodies still missing = 10 bodies total again.

I really think that these are most relevant sources, Tribunal and International Red Cross Comitee.
Those are the poeple who actually counted the bodies and missing.
I agree with most etimates that today consider total number of casualties before and after the bombing started to be in vicinity of 6,000 on all sides. Albanians probably around 4,500 (not all victims of Serbs).

So Kosovo is actually lost...in other words Serbia doesnt control it not to the Albanians? Why is this place so important. I saw it on google earth...nothing specil about it. Isnt it the poorest region in europe? Isnt it the Jerusalem of Serbians religious hertitage.. I was in Isreal.. you should see how the invested tons of money to build the infrastructure. Pristina looks like chernobyl. If i Owned something and loved it.. I would take care of it.

Mr Harding: the Serbian armed forces would be responsible for defending the Serb and Roma enclaves? And then "the goal of lasting peace can be attained for ALL the citizens of Serbia living on its soil, regardless of nationality"? Hmm.. If Kosovo Serbs are Serbia's citizens, then surely so are Kosovo Albanians...

" ..... This will become a de facto partition of Kosovo unless action is immediately taken to counter it. The question is what force will be willing and able to do so. The only viable military force is KFOR. But it is unclear if the countries contributing forces to it will be willing to take on this responsibility. Deciding to do so could easily create immense controversy and disruption in NATO itself."

Exactly what I have been predicting all along.

Don't expect anyone in the West to resort to violence to prevent the de facto partition. Because unlike 1999, no Albanian is perceived to be in danger and so don't expect the West to go to war when the north breaks away in the event of a unilateral declaration from Pristina. Also unlike 1999, the West has still not got itself into a black hole in Iraq, Afghanistan and, may I predict, eventually Sudan too.
As it is, some Nato members do not allow their troops to be engaged in combat in Iraq and Afghanistan, to the chagrin of the US. Don't expect these same Nato members to react any differently in Kosovo too.

Truths?
I do not believe for a minute the statement that, “Virtually all those leaders are now caught in a trap in which the United States has UNINTENTIONALLY placed them.” The US does not do anything “unintentionally”. They are calculating and manipulative and regrettably, intelligence and integrity are not often used, especially in their foreign policy decisions. That the other world leaders chose to follow right in line behind the US is sheer stupidity. One has to question what their selfishness motivation was and I doubt it was sincere concern for the people of the Balkans.

yepp, that´s the difference between the only superpower russia and the self-declared one: russia will gain at every outcome.

but mr. montgomery, kosmet is full of natural resources, but they are still mainly under serb control. and of course there is strategic importance, especially the planed pipline routes, but gazprom & rosneft made them in that corner of the world as outdated as anywhere else where they have been fighting with anglo-saxon energy-companies (to germany without poland, algeria, turkmenistan, and so on).

that´s the reason why there is just 950 men of the us-national guard in bondsteel. and they are the only one without exit-through-serbia-treaty, all other countries have signed such treaties with serbia.

open your eyes to reality, there won´t ever be an indiependent kosmet.

Truth is Montgomery, if the US force the partition (along non-Albanian vs Albanian lines) on Serbia of it's province is there any NATO country willing to stop Serbia do what the Croatians did in 1995 ???

Especially since you accept that what the US are doing is circumvents the UN (ILLEGAL) and its agreements via valid resolutions that they formulated and signed i.e. UN resolution 1244. Which by the way also provides legitamacy for the NATO troops in which case they are immediatly at peril since they have absolutly no mandate and could face war crime charges for any action on Serbian soverign soil being seen in International Law as invaders.

Mr. Montgomery forgot to mention one very important thing. If the coalition of the willing unilaterally recognize greater albania, Republika Srpska will immediately declare independence and be recognized by Russia - tit for tat. In addition, North Kosovo will remain with Serbia with all the resources. This will give Putin the excuse he needs to take back the lands of the former Soviet Union where Russians live, and he will happily do it. Russia and Serbia are definitely in a win-win situation here, and are holding all the cards, and have check-mated the the americans. As Borat would say, High Five!!!

To Tom Harding are you sure your name is not Tom Hardingvich?
I have two points to disagree on with Mr. Montgomery's editorial:
1. The US has had and continues to have great interest in Kosovo and Albania for some time now. Dating back to President Wilson's insistance on creating an Albanian state, continuing through Bush Sr.'s administration and their direct warning to Serbia in the late 80's and early '90s that should Serbia attack Kosovo, Serbia would be met with a swift and resolute action from the West. This promise of course was delivered on by a democrat president who also circumvented the UN SC in the late 90s. Which then brings us to the current conservative republican administration that is just continuing to implement the US policy regarding Kosovo that has been in the making for over decades now and has been unwarvering with respect to which party dominates the political scene in the US. As a result, promising independence was not just another of Mr. Bush's "blunders". I tend to agree that the US would have much rather seen broad autonomy for Kosovo, like the one being promised by the Serbian gov't nowdays, in the late 80's and early '90s. But it is clear to the powers that be that this is no longer possible. One thing that Mr. Montgomery is correct about is the fact that Ahtisaari's package was the best solution for Kosovo, and as a result of Serbia's continued arrogance towards the western powers the serbs in Northern Kosovo will suffer the most.

2. Second, Mr. Montgomery's statement that Kosovo is of no importance to the US is in direct contradiction with the fact that the largest military base in European soil is Camp Bondsteel in Kosovo. Strategic position and natural resources are there, and the fact is that investments are need to be made, for these resources to be exploited. But, more important then any other resource that Mr. Montgomery seems to overlook in his editiorial is the Albanian people themselves. This is the only people in the Ballkans who are of non-slavic dissent and who are non-christian (specifically non-orthodox) that have a strong and unwavering pro-western inclination. Empowering and strengthening Albanians, will give the West the best opportunity it has to limit and counter Russia's sphere of influnce in this otherwise largely slavic, orthodox, and pro-Russian region, which as Mr. Montgomery rightly points out is of a concern to the west. But this concern is nothing new for the west, it was always there that is why the Albanians have their support.

John or Hatichi i hate to put it to you this way but, how do you think you albanians are going to run Kosovo? Nato is there and it's there to stay. Anyway you look at it, you will always have somone telling you what to do.

If the Russians are such an insignificant force on the world stage as the Albanians claim, then why isn't Kosovo already independent ? America has been dangling independence in front of the Albanians since February. The U.S. can promise all they want, the fact is they cannot circumvent the United Nations and break International Law in Europe. They may be able to pull those moves in less civilized areas like Iraq, they have no interests in Kosovo aside from showing the oil producing Moslem countries that the U.S. is not anti-Moslem. Should things backfire on the Albanians and they don't get the independence they're dreaming about, they will show the Americans their true face.

Gregory,

John is not the only Albanian who is trying to create a scenery in which "objective" viewers are teaching others here how the situation in Kosovo is...

John is no better than adrian, nick or others who want to create a virtual reality ( "hell will break loose" etc. )

and as if nobody except themselves knew how it is in Kosmet, they continuously repeat the same phrases like "you have never been here" ...even if others who have been there, for example like german KFOR-commanders described a completely different situation. ( namely: calm and everything under control )

get used to that, those Albanians who are writing here are not representative!

This article is contradictory. In "truth" number one it states that none of the world powers has any vital interests or anything at stake in Kosova/o and that Kosova/o due to its location, lack of minerals and population does not constitute a world crisis.
But then all the other "truths" contradict "truth" number one. All the other "truths" foresee major crises and major world problems, such as the dissolution of NATO, the EU and the UN charter. Which one is it? Judging by these other "truths" then Kosova/o is a world problem and the major powers have major stakes in Kosova/o. These other "truths" foresee major world disorder or the creation of a new world order because of Kosova/a. So is Kosovo/a an unimportant issue as stated in "truth" one or is it an issue which hold critical importance as stated in the other "truths". Judging from the article one thing is true. The author him/herself is confused about the importance of the Kosova/o isssue; thus I would say reading this article is more like reading a horoscope than being enlightened by truths.

Montgomery ceirtanly made few good points, as always.
Our conclusions always end up being very different, somehow.
“Virtually all those leaders are now caught in a trap in which the United States has UNINTENTIONALLY placed them.”
On this one I agree with Roger7.
He wrote: "The US does not do anything “unintentionally”. They are calculating and manipulative and regrettably, intelligence and integrity are not often used, especially in their foreign policy decisions."
It's been clear for a while to everyone that Russia will not change it's stance on Kosovo (why would they).
Russia has been given a great gift by the Western powers.

"Putin's dream scenario is the United States with the support of a number of EU/NATO countries establishing a "coalition of the willing" and giving a green light to the Kosovo Albanians to announce a referendum on independence. This would mean that this group was expressly circumventing the United Nations and thereby setting a precedent useful to Russia in Moldova and Georgia.", wrote Mongomery.
He rightfully calls this "Putin's dream scenario". Not to mention "potential to cause major rifts inside NATO and the European Union."
In my mind, this scenario is very unlikely to happen.
And that is preciselly, the reason for President Bush's statements in Albania and Bulgaria.
In my view, it's true that "Virtually all those leaders are now caught in a trap in which the United States has unintentionally placed them." with replacement of one word (Unintentionally with intentionally).
Albanian leaders in Kosovo have given little space now, but to at some point declare independance unilaterally, and break the stalmate that will, no doubt, continue, as I don't see any reason for Serbia to give in, and even less reason for Russia to do so, and rid itself of benifits, so generously provided by Western powers.
EU countries, on the other hand, don't appear to be too eager to get themselves bogged down in Kosovo. They seem to be looking for the way out, too.
For a while now, everybody seem to be incouraging Kosovo Albanian leaders to "take a plunge" and go unilaterally, despite of calls for patience, etc.
Just look at statement made few months ago by Richard Holbrook, that for any violance that may occur in Kosovo, he will blame Serbia and Russia.
Many see him as next US Secretary of State, should Democrats win the election.
And there he was, giving Albanians blank cheque to go ahead with the violance, stating that someone else will be blamed if they do.
Year one student of any University taking courses in Conflict Resolution area, would do better.
Initially, Holbrook just made diplomatic skills of Condy Rise look impressive. Then I started thinking about it.
Do I really believe that Holbrook is just a guy with below average IQ?
No.
It appears to me that everyone is pushing Albanians to do something, and when they do, they will all wash their hands saying that Albanians ignored their calls for patients, etc. This will be an opportunity for EU to simply walk away.
Kosovo will be, de facto, partitioned without recognition for southern part by Serbia.
It's too early now to talk about what kind of unrecognized state this will be.
West Bank and Taiwan come to mind. Let's all hope that it could become Taiwan.
Now, I have to go. It's my daughter's birthday. Yes, Judy, it's me.

I have no stomach to read more than half your article.
Regurgitation, repetition....
repeat of history........
This tradegy, this injustice over sovereign territory of a country. This anti-Serbianism. This abuse of one nation of people, of their culture, their history, their religion.
This illegal drama will remain in the minds of Serbs inside and outside Serbia for a very long time.
My soul feels a gratitude and a bond to Russia for their understanding of the Kosovo and Metohija issue. The spirit of a nation must never die.
In regard to your pontificating about the moves of America, Nato, Europe(EU), Russia and what benefit it is to whom, this is of no interest to the ordinary Serb and I for one, wished this was happening in another country and not Serbia if it had to happen at all.
p.s you do not promise what is not yours to give.

Mehanikarin first of all it was not Wilson who created Albania. Albania was created by Franz Joseph in 1911as a result of the Pig War between Serbia and Austria. Austrians loved Serbian persuto and paid very little for it “In 1906 the Austrians decided to take advantage of the situation and apply an economic stranglehold by stopping the import of all Serbian livestock. The Pig War had begun and would continue for five years with unexpected results for both sides. The Serbians reacted quickly by opening new trade with Egypt, Greece, Turkey and Germany through Salonica. That's right, Germany. It seems the Germans knew a good pig price when they saw one. By the end of the embargo's first year, the Serbians were exporting more livestock than ever before. Their economy was booming.” Albania was created to prevent Serbia from reaching the Adriatic and becoming a greater example to her Slav brothers in the Balkans.

Your second point has merit and you may have read recently released secret document American Policy for the 21st Century which calls for a military shift of American forces to the Balkans. Greeks, Turks, Romanians, Hungarians and many other numerically smaller groups who live in the Balkans are not Slavs.

You also comment that Albanians “have a strong and unwavering pro-western inclination” is far from the truth. Albanians have shifted alliances like leaves in a windstorm. During the Sino-Soviet split Albanian government invited China to install missiles in Albania. Recent love with America was purchased during the Clinton and Bush presidency via the Albanian lobby. .

Fatos,

Please don't insult our intelligence here. You Albanians keep throwing these numbers like 12,000+, this many rapes, etc...Carla Del Ponte and the UN have pretty much established that only 2300 died (and they are not sure that they are all Albanians). So stop insulting us like Bill Clinton and Tony Blair did when they threw out 100,000 people killed during the bombings to scare people. Albanians told lavish stories of thousands being smelted away in the Trepca mine only for K-For soldiers to found not 1 body! We've seen this act before with "dead" people appearing after the war which several foreign journalists who were burned telling anyone going in not to buy your nonsense. Remember Veton Surroi, Koha Ditore editor? Wasn't he killed and then reappeared after the war? So all you Albanians please stop insulting us with your cafe/bar fables and realize that Kosovo will be partioned because the Russians will not flinch like they did in 99.

Hi Noel(Malcolm?).

The golden chance to resolve this issue was just after the war. The UN together with NATO should have acted on the full implementation of 1244 and prevented the KLA from ethnically cleansing the non-albanian population. This of course would have stripped the KLA from their murderous say over Kosovo. The question is , is it to late to do so?, answer is No. In my view the ethnic albanians lack and unwillingness to play a constructive role over the past 8 years leaves the international community with no other choice but to negotiate the status only with Belgrade.

Serbia stood up to massive air assault for long enough to break the will of NATO and only had to sign what they had already agreed to in the initial round of the Rambouillett ambush and should be treated as such.

I hope B92 will publish my comment too Noel.

Jack - beautifully said.
Noel (Malcolm) - I read that publication of yours which you may call a book, but I have other names for it (rag?). I have one question for you, how much did the albanian lobby pay you to publish your lies? Did you sit down and write it with Christiane Amanpour, or was it Albright, because your book is full of lies.
Walter - I love reading your posts, you are one of the most learned people around. Please keep them coming. We need more truth and less propoganda on here.

Dear ''Gregory''

Perhaps you want to meet up so we can discuss this further and you can convince yourself weather I'm Albanian, Serb or whatever you might think.

I am saying my opinion here just like everyone else. Thats having friends from both sides and reading about the region.

FOR ADMINISTRATOR / I do not understand why my comments are not allowed, since I did not use any heath speech, unlike some of your audience?!
Or perhaps it is not allowed to talk about the genocide that ocurred in the Balkans?!
Thanks for your answer!

Lili, you are turning things up side down here. Albanians are the one that are counting bodies all the time. But, we don't know how do they get this number?
So, Sreten pointed out to a people who have a duty to count the bodies.
And I we are aware of the fact that Red Cross Report may give you some different figures today.
There is appearantly 1,700 Serbs missing in Kosovo today. But they dissapeared later, obviously, not during the war.
Now, there has been someone else counting bodies in Kosovo, and it was not a Serb. (We all know that there were no Serbian government officials, organs or any NGO's active in Kosovo after June '99.)
But, someone have recorded, to say it in your words "there was 12800 bodies burried in kosova,with names and surnames known.."
Obviously, they are not on the list of missing persons, as their names and surnames are known.
It's also obvious that some organization have gathered infromation, including names and surnames, etc. and established from collected data this number to be appearantly 12,800.
Not 128 or 128,000 but 12,800.
By default, who ever this organization was, it was not Serbian. It could have been only Albanian (Kosovo Interim government?) or Western (UNMIK? Some Western NGO?)
We don't know, because who ever mentions number of 12000 never reveals the source.
Well, who ever it was, it failed to notify Tribunal, or to invite forensic team (there was more then 30 of forensic teams in Kosovo at one point in time, looking precisely for the victims)to exhume some of these bodies and provide Tribunal with proper forensic reports.
How is it that Tribunal never found out about them? If they had those forensic reports some trials would have been a breeze.
I suppouse, nobody in the West or among Kosovo Albanians was interested in impicating Milosevic?
A month ago there was a forensic team somewhere in Kosovo on the site where there were suspected bodies.(they didn't find any on that occasion).
Yet, they simply ignore those 12,800 bodies with known whereabouts?
You people should be demonstrating day and night in front of UNMIK and Kosovo Government Offices, demanding resignations for such incompetence.
I say incompetence not to use stronger word.
I fear reasons for failing to come up with forensic reports to be forwarded to Hague Tribunal could be far more sinister.
Seems to me that they are trying to sweep those victims under the carpet.
Could there be conspiracy of silence between Western powers and Kosovo government in order to minimize Serbian attrocities?
Of course, we all know about Batajnica camp. But, try to follow Sretens logic. More bodies found, less bodies missing. Sum is the same.

I'm sorry Lili if I have upset you. I understand that this is one sensitive issue, and certainly I undertand your sensitivity, especially if you have personally lost someone dear.
However, I just want to stress that over all this time I have seen this number appear over and over again. It seems to be at odds with official numbers. They simply don't match.
I would like you to tell me your source.
Understand that I'm only searching for truth here, and if it's true that 12,800 Albanians have been killed I will find that very regretable, and I will accept this as truth.
I don't find 5,000 to be less regretable at all, as for me 5,000 is neither "only", nor insignificant.
I believe that Albanians like their parents, sibilings and children, just as much as Serbian do.
Sorry, if I ofended you, this was not my intention.

The only inconvenient truth here is that the US can't act as it likes as it did in the 1990s.

It is with abhorrent disgust that I have to read again and again the justifications for the KLA's tactics in the Balkans during the 1990s which was obviously sponsored by stealth Clinton cronies (as was the case in Croatia).

Rather than trying to educate and emancipate the Balkan's political elite and administer peace by a change of mind and language, America is pouring oil into the fire everytime it sees the chance to create havoc.

The hardline stance is to create as much economically unstable ministates in Europe so as to disperse unity on the "old" continent and exert influence, whiel at the same time, bash Russia for every of its attempts to use similar tactics.

While I believe that Kosovo needs to become independent, it should never be granted independence under today's circumstances when drug and human trafficking build the very substance of an impoverished economy.

All the biased media reports about the province's sprawling economy show images of cigarette and honey vendors when anyone sane enough should see that this is the lowest of the lowliest forms of economy.

I am simply disgusted by how the US is pushing its agenda in spite of all the facts that today's Kosovar political establishment is infiltrated with the worst possible criminals.

Like in Iraq, however, the US believes in can solve all the problems by just saying so.

Thank you and good night.

I have a proposal for all the Serbs commenting here.
Why don't we come up with claim of our own?
It shouldn't be a round number. How about 21,300?
Let's all memorize this number, and repeat it here endlessly.
So, whenever Albanian writes: "What about 12000 Albanians?" we can write back. "What about 21300 Serbs that were killed in Kosovo?"
Sure, we'll never have a relevant link or anything else to support this claim, or to show how did we get to this number. But, should someone here question our claim, we can do as Lili did.
"Just disgusting, Do you really think that one thousand less will make you not guilty? "
Then we simply point the finger.
"Yes you did these crimes you who voted for theses criminals"
etc.
Just in case that they dare to question our claim.
So, Lili. What about 21,300 Serbs killed in Kosovo?
And if there is a thousand less, does that make you less guilty? Yes, Lili, you did this.

you can find the names of all the victimsin the reports of the international red cross and at the human right defense group of prishtina.Or at the missing group organisation in prishtina.
Today ,serbians groups and albanian ones agree that there is around 500 missings serbs and around 2200albanians ones (exact number at the red cross toO)

to sreten,thanks for apologizing for your post.

Thank you Lili, for understanding. I spent last 3 hours on computer searching for those lists that you've mentioned. I couldn't find them.
But I found this.

http://www.unmikonline.org/pub/news/nl103.html

It's latest UNMIK news (No.103)

After talking about President's Bush visit to Kosovo there is an interesting article titled "Serb delegation from Belgrade visit Suva Reka"

"The fact is that the 188 graves at the UNMIK gravesite in Suva Reka/Suharekë contain unidentified bodies exhumed and reburied in 2000 by the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia (ICTY). The Suva Reka/Suharekë gravesite contains no new bodies and no new mass grave has been uncovered in Kosovo.

Of the 3,900 bodies exhumed by ICTY, 1,256 remain unidentified. These bodies have been reburied in the municipalities where they were found, either in UNMIK graveyards like the one at Suva Reka/Suharekë or in municipal graveyards. The visit to Suva Reka/Suharekë allowed the Serbian delegation to see the situation for themselves."

If you can please send a link to the list of names. You can post it here or email it to me directly to pacimbum@hotmail.com.
I would like to get to the bottom of this.

1. It is amazing to see how many American commentors see Kosovo as a kind of cold war (US-Russia) match. For much of the rest of the world - who try to solve the conflict with arguments - this makes them look like Neanderthalers.

10. Until 1997 an armed uprising in Kosovo had no change of succes. So the Rugova approach was the only that made sense. After that time foreign (Iranian?) money and Western diplomatic commitment changed the rules of the game.

lilli proof is in the pudding.Give us some sources
for your claims oh! whats that your dog ate your homework huh.UN sources or it did not happen.If Serbs as albanians claim lost Kosovo-Metohija becuase of some dead albanians then the albanians have lost Kosovo by that same logic becuase of some dead Serbs.Only the diffrence is Serbs keep dying and fleeing their own land.Remember the war did not start and Serbia did not react becuase albanians were sitting on their hands and being angels.For our peoples evil deeds we Serbs have paid dearly in every conflict.

Inconvenient truth about Kosovo is that US/UK/Nato broke international law.
They committed a crime and should pay for that.

It will be better for the whole world if they accept their guilt and correct consequences of their unlawful actions.

Lili

"seems that you miss an episod of the story! there was 12800 bodies burried in kosova,with names and surnames known..
You you are talking of the missings,from which some 2000and so have been found under the feet of your sodiers in he batajnica camp,some were found in the frigorific truck found in the SAVA were you enjoy swimming ...among our deads..
yes there are somewhat more 2500 still missing,2200albanians and the otherserbian roma and other..see the RED CROSS REPORT about this.
you are denying the number of your victims, eight years after! Just disgusting, Do you really think that one thousand less will make you not guilty? Yes you did these crimes you who voted for theses criminals,you that are still it insignifiant enough to have "only" 5000victims."

What you have to understand in these casualties are included the ones that were killed by NATO and the UCK/KLA ones as well, not just the Serbs. It is well known that UCK killed anyone that reffused to co-operate with them and that turned out to be thousands of Albans, Serbs, Gypsis, etc. So in the end Serbs probably killed less then 5000. During the whole war with NATO 200 Serbian soldiers were killed which is all of our remaining casualties were all civilian.

here is a place were you can check for the names of the victims,since the beginning.
www.cdhrf.org

just check the monthly list published:
But there is a book with all the names published by these associations for the missings and the red cross in kosova