Mass grave may hold up to 500 Kosovo victims

I wander if among these 500 bodies are my two neighbours-siblings: female 17 and her brother 15, both handicapped.They were among 73 Albanians taken by Serbs ON 22 OF MAY 1999 in Vushtrri.
3000 Albanians in Kosovo are counted as missing, while 12.000 known as killed by Serbian forces. On 2001, my first uncle and his wife were founded killed in Mitrovica. On 2005 my second uncle was found in Batanjica.
Where are you Canadian, Kate/ say something.

valdet why not just say 500,000 dead 1,000,000 missing 10,000,000 injured?

Not even one albanian was found for the crimes cimmitted on Serbs.

How convenient.

Valdet. It is really really terrible and all perpetrators of crimes against civilians should face justice and imprisonment.
It makes me sick to think of some of the atrocities that were carried out, regardless of who carried them out. Particularly where children are concerned.
But it should be remembered that the UN have recorded around 2,000 people missing or murdered since Kosovo was 'liberated', and why should these cimes be any less abhorent than those you describe?
It is also well known that the KLA killed Albanians and other groups in 1999 who they considered in league with the enemy.
No one side has clean hands, and all the killings are disgusting.
I never hear any Albanians on this site decry what the KLA has done, or even an admission that these killings were carried out.

To all those people that have been posting here for months denying the crimes commited by serb forced in Kosovo, I advise you to go there at the site and see the bodies for yourself.

These are bodies found withing Serbia so you cannot claim that some CIA agent sneaked during the night and spread some bones around so they could blame the serbs.

Even if we do not include all the albanians that were killed and buried in Kosovo, in Serbia alone there have been found few thousand bodies of albanains by serbs themselves!!

So there goes your claim that there were only 2000 victims and most of them were KLA!

If they were KLA soldiers than how come the serbs when to all this great effort and transported the bodies secretly in Serbia and dug them and tried to hide them, unless they had something to hide (the fact that they were civilians).
- or maybe they were trying to give the KLA soldiers honourable burials!!

If they were KLA soldiers than the serbs forces would have left them were they were killed, or take videos as a propaganda tool to show their miitary strength.


Denial or reality is a sad and desperate.

Valdet, my sincerest condolences to the apalling losses you sustained in your family. I wish those that were responsible are locked up for a long time for committing such disgusting crimes.

It is an embarrassment to our nation that these crimes were committed in our name.

Valdet, 12,000 were not killed. The number of 10,000 killed on both sides is what the West came up with, and even that is too much.

Second, most of the people killed were killed after NATO started bombing, as a result of the bombing.

Third, the West said that hundreds of thousands of albanians were killed. Where are these hundreds of thousands, and where are these countless mass graves that they talked about? They do not exist, and this was propaganda to destroy our country, and to make it all worse, our current regime wants to come closer to these guys.

war is hell!!!

I am trying to find the Serbian translation of this article on the B92 site, but can't seem to find it. Can someone provide the link, or explain why this is not translated into Serbian?

Thanks.

And someone here in this forum dares to speak about international law, about sovregnity right of serbia and so on
Human Rights, it is what you Serbs of diaspora, must understand overrule any other right. Innocent people in mass graves like hebrews in WW2, that's what you serbs should think every day if there's any humanity left in your hearts.

Ardian - If I were Albanian I would certainly not be calling on the WWII Holocaust to prove any sort of point!!

"Valdet, my sincerest condolences to the apalling losses you sustained in your family. I wish those that were responsible are locked up for a long time for committing such disgusting crimes.

It is an embarrassment to our nation that these crimes were committed in our name.
(Djuro UK, Monday, 4 June, 2007, 17:37)"
This is the most sincere response I have seen in this site. Thank you Djuro. To others, who are trying to justify the killings by saying that most were killed after NATO intervened, please STOP. It is really insulting to the victims. There is not justification for killing civilians regardless whether it was before or after NATO intervention, it still should be condemned. yes, if KLA killed innocent people, they SHOULD answer for the crimes they committed.
How can you expect someone like Valdet, who has lost members of his family, to accept anything less than Independence of Kosova? I can't... and I didn't lose anyone from my immediate family, but the fact that I had to leave my home makes me never trust a Serbian government ever. It happened to me, it will probably happen to my children, just as it happened to my relatives 100 years before. It is much better to be neighbors and friends than to live in the same state and enemies. It would be an unsustainable solution to leave Kosova as part of some type of Federation with Serbia. It wont work. It hasn't worked for the past 100 years it wont work again.

I think its a shame that some serbian bloggers continue to ignore those atrocities and forget that those are the real reasons why Albanians could not accept to live with them anymore.
Its also a shame that nations thousands of Kilometers away from Kosova know things much better than Serbs from Serbia that keep trying to hide behind their fingers.
Thanks god there are still people like Djuro. Thank you and if most of serbs were like you, balkans would be a better place to live.

To all of the people that do not understand or do not want to understand the difference between crimes commited from Serbs and Albanians. The crimes commited from Albanians are commited from individuals and those individuals deserve punishment. The crimes commited from Serbs are planed and commited from the state of Serbia so the Serbian State is responsible. It is the state and the government elected by the people of Serbia. That's why the people of Serbia should feel responsible. This is the difference and it is huge. And let's not talk here about the numbers of the crimes or who started everything.

Ardian, the so called respecting international laws co(nsporators) in this forums have no notion of the basic international law RIGHT TO LIFE, which has been violated brutally by the very people who seek to be protected by it.
Their propaganda has finally come to an end on 1999 ( there are some who actually still believe that nothing happen, Serbian military and paramilitary groups were merely protecting... what?) The very people who lived in Kosova/o suffered one of the most inhuman oppression in the name of NATIONALISEM.

Who killed those mens? Answer: Serbian state.Did anytime Serbian state say sorry to tthe victims or their family? Answer NOOOOOOO, because it is so bysy pretending that Kosovo is Serbia and Kosovnars are Serbian citizen.

Wait, they haven't dug into it yet and they know how many bodies? And, they know what nationalities they are? How could Kosovo have "so many" Albanians yet Serbs overan it? It was like what 2 million to 50,000 and yet Serbs committed all this while bombs were dropping on us?

A month ago B92 reported the "discovery" of a mass grave in Serbia that might contain the bodies of Albanians killed by Serbians or it might contain "building rubble from a nearby road building project."

Since we have heard nothing more of the previous story one can justifiably assume that no bodies were found and that that site was not a mass grave but merely landfill.

How many murdered Albanians will be found in this newly discovered "mass grave"? I am sure nothing will be found.

If only 5% of the horror stories told about the Serbian people were true, then there would be no need for anyone to fabricate these mass grave stories.

The Serbs do not have full control over this buffer area. These buffer areas have been places where Albanian terrorists have hidden weapons and launched attacks.

Rather too convenient that right on this area next to Kosovo where the bodies would be.

Yes people could have freshly - over recent years - planted bodies here to frame Serbs.

These bodies could be ones dug up long ago by the UN - some even Roma killed by the KLA - and gradually transferred and put in that border area.

Sometimes it's only a few bones being claimed as a body.

People could easily be smuggling bones to plant in this area.

I've noticed they've never identified any children in the graves they claim were in Serbia.

Not one name of a child, nor any autopsy reports.

It appears that fighters dug up by the UN have a few of their bones smuggled to Serbia (perhaps with Serbs wanting to frame the former MIlosevic regime) then claiming that they were put there during the time when NATO was bombing.

A very timely new mass grave. We have seen many reports like this before with 'suspected to contain up to X hundreds of bodies'. The follow up reports seem to dry up though when only a handful of bodies are exhumed. I shall wait and see.

Also 'mass grave' does not mean 'massacre'. There are mass graves all over the world where war or disaster has struck an area. In times of multiple deaths such as conflict or disaster there is a need to get the bodies underground as quickly as possible to prevent the spread of disease. The most efficient way to do this is to dig one big whole and lay all the bodies in together.

Would you accuse the Red Cross and other Humanitarian Agencies of genocide because they also have had to create mass graves on occasions to prevent the spread of disease.

The probability is that some of the people in this grave will have met with a violent death either from NATO bombs, VJ or KLA actions. However, until a full forensic and Coroners investigation into every body pulled from this grave site has been completed it is a little early to be crying 'massacre'.

What is needed in Kosovo(and in the whole of the former Yugoslavia) is a truth and reconciliation commission run by the Red Cross to investigate every death. The families of the victims deserve nothing less.

The usual hysterical cries of MASSACRE and GENOCIDE do nothing to help victims families find the truth and do much to increase intolerance and suspicion between communities, thus laying the ground work for future violence. So carry on screaming intolerance if you want to, I don't come from the Balkans so I don't care, BUT maybe you want to think about your childrens future and maybe try to learn to live peacefully with each other so that your children don't carry on your legacy of hatred and conflict.

Despite what your leaders and your media tell you if you actually crossed the lines and spoke to the people on the otherside you would find that they want a good job, a nice house, a car, a holiday, kids/grandkids, that they worry about paying the bills at the end of the month, worry about their kids education, look forward to spending time with family and friends. In other words the people on the other side of the line ARE JUST LIKE YOU!!

Ordinary people don't benefit from conflict and don't take any part when it does happen.Did Thaci or Ceku or Milosevic or Tudjman or any of the others become poor because of the conflicts? No. So if you do want a decent life vote out the people who preach division, stop buying the papers of intolerant news media(they only print controversy to sell more papers), change the channel if Radio or TV stations don't support peace(they'll soon lose their advertising revenues when viewer figures tumble). Lets start a grassroots movement to live and let live.

It's realy sickening. I hope nationalists from both sides realise that perpetrators have ruined thousands of families. I would sincerely apologize to all Albanian families whose children have ended up in mass graves. I also hope the Albanians apologize for 2 thousand of Serbian victims who perished as a result of revenge. Regardless, what some may say, Kosmet's independence or partition is unavodable. However, to avoid future attrocities as these, Partition is the best sollution for Serbs and Albanians.

Hopefully someone is reading!

To all Albanians: STOP asking for serbian solidarity and pity because is useless. Valdet you are not a victim. We fought for our freedom and many died to achieve it. We dont need any apologies.

it's really hard to belive after all the kilings and rapes they did in kosovo no one comes & say we are sorry.the whole world knows. I left kosovo in 1999 i live in usa now god bles albanian people what they been threw.

Everybody in the world knows about the atrocities. But it takes a person in Canada to negate it. Here is Djuro. A common Serbian gentleman who realizes the truth. Thanks to people like him, the future will be bright within borders of Balkan States.

I guess bringing up the Mass Graves will somehow speed the road to Independence. Why are we bringing up the dead, if there people that were buried in Mass Graves exhume and Identify them. Return the remains to the families and learn from this madness not use it as some propoganda tool. Respect the dead.

http://www.serbia-info.com/news/kosovo/terrorism/since1990.html

Its a little too convenient.
Only problem was the Ethnic Cleansing never happened. Otherwise they would have found Milosevic guilty. Even though they orchestrated everything as a set-up. They failed to convict him of anything in over 4 years he was on trial.

How many more mass graves are there in Serbia ?!Was Milloshevic the only person responsible ?
Why should I trust any Serbian government after what they did in Bosnia & Kosova..

I have a million questions .....

I can only join Djuro in his condolances. It's terrible that such crimes were commited.
When it comes to numbers... I don't think it's appropriate time.

Regarding the debate "state's sovereignty" vs "human rights" let me quote Mr. Kofi Annan, the former UN Secretary General from an article he wrote for the Economist on 18 September 1999:
"State sovereignty, in its most basic sense, is being redefined—not least by the forces of globalisation and international co-operation. States are now widely understood to be instruments at the service of their peoples, and not vice versa. At the same time individual sovereignty—by which I mean the fundamental freedom of each individual, enshrined in the charter of the UN and subsequent international treaties—has been enhanced by a renewed and spreading consciousness of individual rights. When we read the charter today, we are more than ever conscious that its aim is to protect individual human beings, not to protect those who abuse them".

Cheers!

Hi Ratko, It is very easy to ignore and pretend that nothing has happened, but unfortunately it has and a lot of atrocities have happened in your name as a serb by military and police. Since I haven’t been in Croatia during the war, I can also say that serbs didn’t suffer at all by croatians, and croatians only defended themselves from chetniks (serb paramilitary groups), but the truth is different and whether I admit it or not is irrelevant. It has still happened. So have the atrocities committed by serb paramilitary and police forces. I was in Kosovo myself (I am from UK) and I have seen the graves and seen the truth. I suggest to you and all other serbs that live in denial and that you need to understand the truth. And only when you understand the truth you will see things differently, and will come to realise that the EU and USA are not your enemies, and they are not taking Kosovo from you because you will be free to visit any time you like, but they are taking it from your government who did govern Kosovo, but they lost that right when they started killing and torturing their own civilians. I equally will raise my voice and change my opinion about Kosovo’s independence if it does the same things to serbs who live there.

Ida said:

"These bodies could be ones dug up long ago by the UN - some even Roma killed by the KLA - and gradually transferred and put in that border area."

To Ida:

"A senior Serbian official told Reuters on Monday that, based on data collected through remote sensing on the site, he expected "between 300 and 500 bodies" to be found.
He said he believed the bodies were originally buried elsewhere, then dug up, loaded onto four trucks, and dumped at the quarry on June 3, 1999." (Reuters, 5 June 2007)

Michael Thomas said:

"A month ago B92 reported the "discovery" of a mass grave in Serbia that might contain the bodies of Albanians killed by Serbians or it might contain "building rubble from a nearby road building project." Since we have heard nothing more of the previous story one can justifiably assume that no bodies were found and that that site was not a mass grave but merely landfill.

To Michael Thomas:

"The grave was first mentioned in testimonies given to U.N. authorities in 2004. Work on the site was due to start months ago, but was postponed because rain water had collected in large puddles that made digging impossible." (Reuters, 5 June 2007)

Shame on you!

Ida

Your comment is so ridicuolus that it made me laugh.

I was being sarcastic when I said that some CIA agent snuck during the night and planted some bones in Serbia, and you are acutally suggesting that something like that happened.

You proved my point!!

The Kurds have suffered far worse under Turkish rule than Albanians under Serbian rule! Where is the call for Kurdistan to be amputated from Turkey? Yes Albanians where killed in Kosovo, and Serbs and Roma, war is kind of like that. Albania starts an insurgent war in Kosovo against Serbia, Serbia defends herself, gets bombed by the richest countries in the world and then Albanians who claim to be the victims (remember they started that war) say they can no longer live in Serbia so lets' make part of Serbia Albania. A grave with 500 Albanians does not give them the right to annex sovereign territory from another country, period end of discussion!

Our NGO, "Hope and Aid Direct", has been visiting N.Albania, Kosovo or Serbia with humanitarian aid convoys twice each year since 1998 doing just a little to help some of the most desperate survivors of a dreadful conflict. During that time, we have assisted Serbians, Albanians, Roma, Askalia, Bosniaks and others. We take no sides but we know from speaking to many families who have lost their closest and dearest relatives, that many innocent people of all races were taken and shot secretly during the course of this awful war. Wars end relatively quickly, but the pain that these families suffer goes on and on, especially if no remains are ever found. We would like to appeal to all readers of these comments to show the greatest sympathy to these people from whichever race they happen to belong. While the arguments and hatred goes on, the pain of these families will continue. Only through tolerance and acceptance, can we all move ahead.

«I never hear any Albanians on this site decry what the KLA has done, or even an admission that these killings were carried out.»

Kate, you cannot compare what the KLA has done to the systematic killings the Serbs have done in Kosovo. Did you read about what happened in Cuska, in May 1999? Briefly, soldiers went to this little village, they gathered the men (43), execute them, and burn them in barns. They molested the women, and move on to village B, and after village C... and did the same! In one day, this group of soldiers murdered over 100 men.

Again, Kate, what these Serbs have done has tarnished the image of all Serbs for a long time.

I have never read such atrocities committed by the KLA.

Victor...do you remember the Staro Gracko farmer masscare in July 1999?

I’m really surprised just how misleading the Serbian people have been during the war in Kosovo. I was in Kosovo during the war and I’ve never heard stories about the KLA killing Serb civilians although I heard and seen captured Serbian army personnel and they were put in “prison” and freed after a period of time because the KLA didn’t have the facilities to maintain them. I also remember one Serb escaped hand cuffed and as for Serb civilian getting killed it’s probably the family members of the Albanian victims wanting revenge which every decent Albanian condemns their act. But unquestionably Serbian army has committed massacres in Kosovo, I have relatives and neighbors who got killed and massacred during the war. The KLA was not a highly organized force compared to the Serbs, it was few hundred men voluntary willing to fight, although a lot it’s been said but that’s just propaganda to keep people motivated, everyone knew the KLA was no match for the Serb army. Albanians in Kosovo without a doubt deserve their Independence.

Its because they see themselves as the victims and not the victimizers. Most of the Serbs only heard about what the KLA were doing and not vice versa.

Well, no body has actually been found or dug up - and this "remote sensing equipment" and anonymous "Serbian officials" sounds like rumors.

This is just for headlines.

The KLA had thousands of soldiers and they were getting training in Albania and Turkey long before NATO airstrikes.

Many of their commanders, such as Ramush Haradinaj are on trial for killing civilians.

Albanians have testified to being tortured by the KLA and having their relatives killed.

The KLA deemed anyone working for the Serbian government - including forestry workers - as collaborators.

Witnesses to KLA crimes have been killed off.

This story is likely another false rumor like the Trepca mine hoax.

They never found any bodies are evidence of killing in the Trepca mines at all - and this was one of the first place investigators went to because of the claimes of "witnesses".

Valdet,

As always, I apologize for the suffering for which you have had to go through and you have my condolences. As a Serb I do feel guilt and shame for the actions committed by criminals in the name of my people.

“I never hear any Albanians on this site decry what the KLA has done, or even an admission that these killings were carried out.
(kate, Monday, 4 June, 2007, 17:15)”

Kate, I actually have. I’ll start keeping a list of quotes because I think it’s important, just like I do with Victor’s Greatest Hits. I should probably start one for the Serb side as well.

“How can you expect someone like Valdet, who has lost members of his family, to accept anything less than Independence of Kosova? (Kujtim, Monday, 4 June, 2007, 19:07)”

Believe it or not, we Serbs do understand how Valdet feels. For example, my wife’s family is from Krajina and her grandfather’s generation were slaughtered obviously, and then my wife’s generation was completely cleansed, she was only 16 at the time from a small village of less then 300. Where was our independence, our protection? Even the UN opposed Croatia’s independence because of its poor human rights record (Can you imagine if Serbia held onto Kosovo and in 40 years starting glorifying the Milosevic regime?). So, somehow we move on, we have to. I actually sympathize with what the Albanians are feeling, and the Balkans are a truly dark place at times.

“I equally will raise my voice and change my opinion about Kosovo’s independence if it does the same things to serbs who live there.
(victor, Tuesday, 5 June, 2007, 12:18)”

Undoubtedly Serbs committed crimes in Kosovo at a state sponsored level. Also without question is the fact that there were reprisals and retaliatory attacks, like 2004. The reality as I see it is the Albanians didn’t do too bad a job at getting even. There are actually more Serbs per capita (percentage of their population) missing and cleansed from Kosovo and very a nearly equal number of dead. All I’m trying to say is it wasn’t as completely one-sided as often portrayed in the Western Media. I do think the Serbs behaved badly.

So I do support the right for parts of Kosovo to determine their own future however they would like. However, I also strongly support the right for the Serbian population to also determine their future. Statistically, the average Serb residing in Kosovo is just as likely to have suffered from a crime as the average Albanian. Grass Roots violence may actually prove harder to predict and contain then State Sponsored violence. So much of the potential for danger for the average Serb remains, while for the average Albanian, at least for now, they do live in relative safety.

Don’t even get me started on the danger to minorities coming from paragraph 3.7 of the annex to Ahtisaari’s plan.

“Valdet you are not a victim. We fought for our freedom and many died to achieve it. We dont need any apologies.
(ilir, Monday, 4 June, 2007, 23:17)”

Valdet, I’m sure you know this is the type of person who gladly traded the lives of your family for freedom for himself. Violence and death is never the proper justification for obtaining that which you desire. We’d all be in the EU right this very moment if everyone in Yugoslavia hadn’t decide to go all crazy. All those wars were incredibly useless and pointless and will have served absolutely no purpose once Europe is completely united. Can you imagine different States in the US fighting over territory? It’s a pretty absurd idea.

I wander if among these 500 bodies are my two neighbours-siblings: female 17 and her brother 15, both handicapped.They were among 73 Albanians taken by Serbs ON 22 OF MAY 1999 in Vushtrri.
3000 Albanians in Kosovo are counted as missing, while 12.000 known as killed by Serbian forces. On 2001, my first uncle and his wife were founded killed in Mitrovica. On 2005 my second uncle was found in Batanjica.
Where are you Canadian, Kate/ say something.

valdet why not just say 500,000 dead 1,000,000 missing 10,000,000 injured?

Not even one albanian was found for the crimes cimmitted on Serbs.

How convenient.

Valdet. It is really really terrible and all perpetrators of crimes against civilians should face justice and imprisonment.
It makes me sick to think of some of the atrocities that were carried out, regardless of who carried them out. Particularly where children are concerned.
But it should be remembered that the UN have recorded around 2,000 people missing or murdered since Kosovo was 'liberated', and why should these cimes be any less abhorent than those you describe?
It is also well known that the KLA killed Albanians and other groups in 1999 who they considered in league with the enemy.
No one side has clean hands, and all the killings are disgusting.
I never hear any Albanians on this site decry what the KLA has done, or even an admission that these killings were carried out.

To all those people that have been posting here for months denying the crimes commited by serb forced in Kosovo, I advise you to go there at the site and see the bodies for yourself.

These are bodies found withing Serbia so you cannot claim that some CIA agent sneaked during the night and spread some bones around so they could blame the serbs.

Even if we do not include all the albanians that were killed and buried in Kosovo, in Serbia alone there have been found few thousand bodies of albanains by serbs themselves!!

So there goes your claim that there were only 2000 victims and most of them were KLA!

If they were KLA soldiers than how come the serbs when to all this great effort and transported the bodies secretly in Serbia and dug them and tried to hide them, unless they had something to hide (the fact that they were civilians).
- or maybe they were trying to give the KLA soldiers honourable burials!!

If they were KLA soldiers than the serbs forces would have left them were they were killed, or take videos as a propaganda tool to show their miitary strength.


Denial or reality is a sad and desperate.

Valdet, my sincerest condolences to the apalling losses you sustained in your family. I wish those that were responsible are locked up for a long time for committing such disgusting crimes.

It is an embarrassment to our nation that these crimes were committed in our name.

Valdet, 12,000 were not killed. The number of 10,000 killed on both sides is what the West came up with, and even that is too much.

Second, most of the people killed were killed after NATO started bombing, as a result of the bombing.

Third, the West said that hundreds of thousands of albanians were killed. Where are these hundreds of thousands, and where are these countless mass graves that they talked about? They do not exist, and this was propaganda to destroy our country, and to make it all worse, our current regime wants to come closer to these guys.

war is hell!!!

I am trying to find the Serbian translation of this article on the B92 site, but can't seem to find it. Can someone provide the link, or explain why this is not translated into Serbian?

Thanks.

And someone here in this forum dares to speak about international law, about sovregnity right of serbia and so on
Human Rights, it is what you Serbs of diaspora, must understand overrule any other right. Innocent people in mass graves like hebrews in WW2, that's what you serbs should think every day if there's any humanity left in your hearts.

Ardian - If I were Albanian I would certainly not be calling on the WWII Holocaust to prove any sort of point!!

"Valdet, my sincerest condolences to the apalling losses you sustained in your family. I wish those that were responsible are locked up for a long time for committing such disgusting crimes.

It is an embarrassment to our nation that these crimes were committed in our name.
(Djuro UK, Monday, 4 June, 2007, 17:37)"
This is the most sincere response I have seen in this site. Thank you Djuro. To others, who are trying to justify the killings by saying that most were killed after NATO intervened, please STOP. It is really insulting to the victims. There is not justification for killing civilians regardless whether it was before or after NATO intervention, it still should be condemned. yes, if KLA killed innocent people, they SHOULD answer for the crimes they committed.
How can you expect someone like Valdet, who has lost members of his family, to accept anything less than Independence of Kosova? I can't... and I didn't lose anyone from my immediate family, but the fact that I had to leave my home makes me never trust a Serbian government ever. It happened to me, it will probably happen to my children, just as it happened to my relatives 100 years before. It is much better to be neighbors and friends than to live in the same state and enemies. It would be an unsustainable solution to leave Kosova as part of some type of Federation with Serbia. It wont work. It hasn't worked for the past 100 years it wont work again.

I think its a shame that some serbian bloggers continue to ignore those atrocities and forget that those are the real reasons why Albanians could not accept to live with them anymore.
Its also a shame that nations thousands of Kilometers away from Kosova know things much better than Serbs from Serbia that keep trying to hide behind their fingers.
Thanks god there are still people like Djuro. Thank you and if most of serbs were like you, balkans would be a better place to live.

To all of the people that do not understand or do not want to understand the difference between crimes commited from Serbs and Albanians. The crimes commited from Albanians are commited from individuals and those individuals deserve punishment. The crimes commited from Serbs are planed and commited from the state of Serbia so the Serbian State is responsible. It is the state and the government elected by the people of Serbia. That's why the people of Serbia should feel responsible. This is the difference and it is huge. And let's not talk here about the numbers of the crimes or who started everything.

Ardian, the so called respecting international laws co(nsporators) in this forums have no notion of the basic international law RIGHT TO LIFE, which has been violated brutally by the very people who seek to be protected by it.
Their propaganda has finally come to an end on 1999 ( there are some who actually still believe that nothing happen, Serbian military and paramilitary groups were merely protecting... what?) The very people who lived in Kosova/o suffered one of the most inhuman oppression in the name of NATIONALISEM.

Who killed those mens? Answer: Serbian state.Did anytime Serbian state say sorry to tthe victims or their family? Answer NOOOOOOO, because it is so bysy pretending that Kosovo is Serbia and Kosovnars are Serbian citizen.

Wait, they haven't dug into it yet and they know how many bodies? And, they know what nationalities they are? How could Kosovo have "so many" Albanians yet Serbs overan it? It was like what 2 million to 50,000 and yet Serbs committed all this while bombs were dropping on us?

A month ago B92 reported the "discovery" of a mass grave in Serbia that might contain the bodies of Albanians killed by Serbians or it might contain "building rubble from a nearby road building project."

Since we have heard nothing more of the previous story one can justifiably assume that no bodies were found and that that site was not a mass grave but merely landfill.

How many murdered Albanians will be found in this newly discovered "mass grave"? I am sure nothing will be found.

If only 5% of the horror stories told about the Serbian people were true, then there would be no need for anyone to fabricate these mass grave stories.

The Serbs do not have full control over this buffer area. These buffer areas have been places where Albanian terrorists have hidden weapons and launched attacks.

Rather too convenient that right on this area next to Kosovo where the bodies would be.

Yes people could have freshly - over recent years - planted bodies here to frame Serbs.

These bodies could be ones dug up long ago by the UN - some even Roma killed by the KLA - and gradually transferred and put in that border area.

Sometimes it's only a few bones being claimed as a body.

People could easily be smuggling bones to plant in this area.

I've noticed they've never identified any children in the graves they claim were in Serbia.

Not one name of a child, nor any autopsy reports.

It appears that fighters dug up by the UN have a few of their bones smuggled to Serbia (perhaps with Serbs wanting to frame the former MIlosevic regime) then claiming that they were put there during the time when NATO was bombing.

A very timely new mass grave. We have seen many reports like this before with 'suspected to contain up to X hundreds of bodies'. The follow up reports seem to dry up though when only a handful of bodies are exhumed. I shall wait and see.

Also 'mass grave' does not mean 'massacre'. There are mass graves all over the world where war or disaster has struck an area. In times of multiple deaths such as conflict or disaster there is a need to get the bodies underground as quickly as possible to prevent the spread of disease. The most efficient way to do this is to dig one big whole and lay all the bodies in together.

Would you accuse the Red Cross and other Humanitarian Agencies of genocide because they also have had to create mass graves on occasions to prevent the spread of disease.

The probability is that some of the people in this grave will have met with a violent death either from NATO bombs, VJ or KLA actions. However, until a full forensic and Coroners investigation into every body pulled from this grave site has been completed it is a little early to be crying 'massacre'.

What is needed in Kosovo(and in the whole of the former Yugoslavia) is a truth and reconciliation commission run by the Red Cross to investigate every death. The families of the victims deserve nothing less.

The usual hysterical cries of MASSACRE and GENOCIDE do nothing to help victims families find the truth and do much to increase intolerance and suspicion between communities, thus laying the ground work for future violence. So carry on screaming intolerance if you want to, I don't come from the Balkans so I don't care, BUT maybe you want to think about your childrens future and maybe try to learn to live peacefully with each other so that your children don't carry on your legacy of hatred and conflict.

Despite what your leaders and your media tell you if you actually crossed the lines and spoke to the people on the otherside you would find that they want a good job, a nice house, a car, a holiday, kids/grandkids, that they worry about paying the bills at the end of the month, worry about their kids education, look forward to spending time with family and friends. In other words the people on the other side of the line ARE JUST LIKE YOU!!

Ordinary people don't benefit from conflict and don't take any part when it does happen.Did Thaci or Ceku or Milosevic or Tudjman or any of the others become poor because of the conflicts? No. So if you do want a decent life vote out the people who preach division, stop buying the papers of intolerant news media(they only print controversy to sell more papers), change the channel if Radio or TV stations don't support peace(they'll soon lose their advertising revenues when viewer figures tumble). Lets start a grassroots movement to live and let live.

It's realy sickening. I hope nationalists from both sides realise that perpetrators have ruined thousands of families. I would sincerely apologize to all Albanian families whose children have ended up in mass graves. I also hope the Albanians apologize for 2 thousand of Serbian victims who perished as a result of revenge. Regardless, what some may say, Kosmet's independence or partition is unavodable. However, to avoid future attrocities as these, Partition is the best sollution for Serbs and Albanians.

Hopefully someone is reading!

To all Albanians: STOP asking for serbian solidarity and pity because is useless. Valdet you are not a victim. We fought for our freedom and many died to achieve it. We dont need any apologies.

it's really hard to belive after all the kilings and rapes they did in kosovo no one comes & say we are sorry.the whole world knows. I left kosovo in 1999 i live in usa now god bles albanian people what they been threw.

Everybody in the world knows about the atrocities. But it takes a person in Canada to negate it. Here is Djuro. A common Serbian gentleman who realizes the truth. Thanks to people like him, the future will be bright within borders of Balkan States.

I guess bringing up the Mass Graves will somehow speed the road to Independence. Why are we bringing up the dead, if there people that were buried in Mass Graves exhume and Identify them. Return the remains to the families and learn from this madness not use it as some propoganda tool. Respect the dead.

http://www.serbia-info.com/news/kosovo/terrorism/since1990.html

Its a little too convenient.
Only problem was the Ethnic Cleansing never happened. Otherwise they would have found Milosevic guilty. Even though they orchestrated everything as a set-up. They failed to convict him of anything in over 4 years he was on trial.

How many more mass graves are there in Serbia ?!Was Milloshevic the only person responsible ?
Why should I trust any Serbian government after what they did in Bosnia & Kosova..

I have a million questions .....

I can only join Djuro in his condolances. It's terrible that such crimes were commited.
When it comes to numbers... I don't think it's appropriate time.

Regarding the debate "state's sovereignty" vs "human rights" let me quote Mr. Kofi Annan, the former UN Secretary General from an article he wrote for the Economist on 18 September 1999:
"State sovereignty, in its most basic sense, is being redefined—not least by the forces of globalisation and international co-operation. States are now widely understood to be instruments at the service of their peoples, and not vice versa. At the same time individual sovereignty—by which I mean the fundamental freedom of each individual, enshrined in the charter of the UN and subsequent international treaties—has been enhanced by a renewed and spreading consciousness of individual rights. When we read the charter today, we are more than ever conscious that its aim is to protect individual human beings, not to protect those who abuse them".

Cheers!

Hi Ratko, It is very easy to ignore and pretend that nothing has happened, but unfortunately it has and a lot of atrocities have happened in your name as a serb by military and police. Since I haven’t been in Croatia during the war, I can also say that serbs didn’t suffer at all by croatians, and croatians only defended themselves from chetniks (serb paramilitary groups), but the truth is different and whether I admit it or not is irrelevant. It has still happened. So have the atrocities committed by serb paramilitary and police forces. I was in Kosovo myself (I am from UK) and I have seen the graves and seen the truth. I suggest to you and all other serbs that live in denial and that you need to understand the truth. And only when you understand the truth you will see things differently, and will come to realise that the EU and USA are not your enemies, and they are not taking Kosovo from you because you will be free to visit any time you like, but they are taking it from your government who did govern Kosovo, but they lost that right when they started killing and torturing their own civilians. I equally will raise my voice and change my opinion about Kosovo’s independence if it does the same things to serbs who live there.

Ida said:

"These bodies could be ones dug up long ago by the UN - some even Roma killed by the KLA - and gradually transferred and put in that border area."

To Ida:

"A senior Serbian official told Reuters on Monday that, based on data collected through remote sensing on the site, he expected "between 300 and 500 bodies" to be found.
He said he believed the bodies were originally buried elsewhere, then dug up, loaded onto four trucks, and dumped at the quarry on June 3, 1999." (Reuters, 5 June 2007)

Michael Thomas said:

"A month ago B92 reported the "discovery" of a mass grave in Serbia that might contain the bodies of Albanians killed by Serbians or it might contain "building rubble from a nearby road building project." Since we have heard nothing more of the previous story one can justifiably assume that no bodies were found and that that site was not a mass grave but merely landfill.

To Michael Thomas:

"The grave was first mentioned in testimonies given to U.N. authorities in 2004. Work on the site was due to start months ago, but was postponed because rain water had collected in large puddles that made digging impossible." (Reuters, 5 June 2007)

Shame on you!

Ida

Your comment is so ridicuolus that it made me laugh.

I was being sarcastic when I said that some CIA agent snuck during the night and planted some bones in Serbia, and you are acutally suggesting that something like that happened.

You proved my point!!

The Kurds have suffered far worse under Turkish rule than Albanians under Serbian rule! Where is the call for Kurdistan to be amputated from Turkey? Yes Albanians where killed in Kosovo, and Serbs and Roma, war is kind of like that. Albania starts an insurgent war in Kosovo against Serbia, Serbia defends herself, gets bombed by the richest countries in the world and then Albanians who claim to be the victims (remember they started that war) say they can no longer live in Serbia so lets' make part of Serbia Albania. A grave with 500 Albanians does not give them the right to annex sovereign territory from another country, period end of discussion!

Our NGO, "Hope and Aid Direct", has been visiting N.Albania, Kosovo or Serbia with humanitarian aid convoys twice each year since 1998 doing just a little to help some of the most desperate survivors of a dreadful conflict. During that time, we have assisted Serbians, Albanians, Roma, Askalia, Bosniaks and others. We take no sides but we know from speaking to many families who have lost their closest and dearest relatives, that many innocent people of all races were taken and shot secretly during the course of this awful war. Wars end relatively quickly, but the pain that these families suffer goes on and on, especially if no remains are ever found. We would like to appeal to all readers of these comments to show the greatest sympathy to these people from whichever race they happen to belong. While the arguments and hatred goes on, the pain of these families will continue. Only through tolerance and acceptance, can we all move ahead.

«I never hear any Albanians on this site decry what the KLA has done, or even an admission that these killings were carried out.»

Kate, you cannot compare what the KLA has done to the systematic killings the Serbs have done in Kosovo. Did you read about what happened in Cuska, in May 1999? Briefly, soldiers went to this little village, they gathered the men (43), execute them, and burn them in barns. They molested the women, and move on to village B, and after village C... and did the same! In one day, this group of soldiers murdered over 100 men.

Again, Kate, what these Serbs have done has tarnished the image of all Serbs for a long time.

I have never read such atrocities committed by the KLA.

Victor...do you remember the Staro Gracko farmer masscare in July 1999?

I’m really surprised just how misleading the Serbian people have been during the war in Kosovo. I was in Kosovo during the war and I’ve never heard stories about the KLA killing Serb civilians although I heard and seen captured Serbian army personnel and they were put in “prison” and freed after a period of time because the KLA didn’t have the facilities to maintain them. I also remember one Serb escaped hand cuffed and as for Serb civilian getting killed it’s probably the family members of the Albanian victims wanting revenge which every decent Albanian condemns their act. But unquestionably Serbian army has committed massacres in Kosovo, I have relatives and neighbors who got killed and massacred during the war. The KLA was not a highly organized force compared to the Serbs, it was few hundred men voluntary willing to fight, although a lot it’s been said but that’s just propaganda to keep people motivated, everyone knew the KLA was no match for the Serb army. Albanians in Kosovo without a doubt deserve their Independence.

Its because they see themselves as the victims and not the victimizers. Most of the Serbs only heard about what the KLA were doing and not vice versa.

Well, no body has actually been found or dug up - and this "remote sensing equipment" and anonymous "Serbian officials" sounds like rumors.

This is just for headlines.

The KLA had thousands of soldiers and they were getting training in Albania and Turkey long before NATO airstrikes.

Many of their commanders, such as Ramush Haradinaj are on trial for killing civilians.

Albanians have testified to being tortured by the KLA and having their relatives killed.

The KLA deemed anyone working for the Serbian government - including forestry workers - as collaborators.

Witnesses to KLA crimes have been killed off.

This story is likely another false rumor like the Trepca mine hoax.

They never found any bodies are evidence of killing in the Trepca mines at all - and this was one of the first place investigators went to because of the claimes of "witnesses".

Valdet,

As always, I apologize for the suffering for which you have had to go through and you have my condolences. As a Serb I do feel guilt and shame for the actions committed by criminals in the name of my people.

“I never hear any Albanians on this site decry what the KLA has done, or even an admission that these killings were carried out.
(kate, Monday, 4 June, 2007, 17:15)”

Kate, I actually have. I’ll start keeping a list of quotes because I think it’s important, just like I do with Victor’s Greatest Hits. I should probably start one for the Serb side as well.

“How can you expect someone like Valdet, who has lost members of his family, to accept anything less than Independence of Kosova? (Kujtim, Monday, 4 June, 2007, 19:07)”

Believe it or not, we Serbs do understand how Valdet feels. For example, my wife’s family is from Krajina and her grandfather’s generation were slaughtered obviously, and then my wife’s generation was completely cleansed, she was only 16 at the time from a small village of less then 300. Where was our independence, our protection? Even the UN opposed Croatia’s independence because of its poor human rights record (Can you imagine if Serbia held onto Kosovo and in 40 years starting glorifying the Milosevic regime?). So, somehow we move on, we have to. I actually sympathize with what the Albanians are feeling, and the Balkans are a truly dark place at times.

“I equally will raise my voice and change my opinion about Kosovo’s independence if it does the same things to serbs who live there.
(victor, Tuesday, 5 June, 2007, 12:18)”

Undoubtedly Serbs committed crimes in Kosovo at a state sponsored level. Also without question is the fact that there were reprisals and retaliatory attacks, like 2004. The reality as I see it is the Albanians didn’t do too bad a job at getting even. There are actually more Serbs per capita (percentage of their population) missing and cleansed from Kosovo and very a nearly equal number of dead. All I’m trying to say is it wasn’t as completely one-sided as often portrayed in the Western Media. I do think the Serbs behaved badly.

So I do support the right for parts of Kosovo to determine their own future however they would like. However, I also strongly support the right for the Serbian population to also determine their future. Statistically, the average Serb residing in Kosovo is just as likely to have suffered from a crime as the average Albanian. Grass Roots violence may actually prove harder to predict and contain then State Sponsored violence. So much of the potential for danger for the average Serb remains, while for the average Albanian, at least for now, they do live in relative safety.

Don’t even get me started on the danger to minorities coming from paragraph 3.7 of the annex to Ahtisaari’s plan.

“Valdet you are not a victim. We fought for our freedom and many died to achieve it. We dont need any apologies.
(ilir, Monday, 4 June, 2007, 23:17)”

Valdet, I’m sure you know this is the type of person who gladly traded the lives of your family for freedom for himself. Violence and death is never the proper justification for obtaining that which you desire. We’d all be in the EU right this very moment if everyone in Yugoslavia hadn’t decide to go all crazy. All those wars were incredibly useless and pointless and will have served absolutely no purpose once Europe is completely united. Can you imagine different States in the US fighting over territory? It’s a pretty absurd idea.