"We've been fools to recognize Macedonia under that name"

MACEDONIA_IS_GREEK_3,000_years -For such a decision, the dead and the unborn would have to join us, except us. We must realize that the name of Macedonia is not our property to deliver it. It is not a financial element. ... please visit … https://sites.google.com/site/macedoniaisreallygreek/

The root of Fyroms problem is the identity issue.The country has been built on bad foundations so its now faltering.The Albanians are indigenous and as such deserve equal rights. Just the name Macedonia is offensive to the Albanians, Greeks and Bulgarians. When a new nation offends its neighbors it is doomed. add to this the cultural fabrications of antiquity. Slavic denials. stolen national heroes. theme parks that are the product of a mad man. languishing economy. ect ect. all these social and economic issues are brought upon from one thing – the identity. Its false. The minute they redefine who they are in a correct historical and scientific manner the country will thrive. they don,t take criticism. its impossible to criticize them. they don’t get it. Macedonia is a name that is not exclusive to FYROM. They cannot use it. They have had ample time to fix the name issue. Instead they forged along with a false antiqization policy. Inflammatory airport names. Cheap Italian statues of historical figures that are not ethnically connected to them. Ect Ect. The media has been shut down. Take Mina as an example of Gruevski propaganda. The place stinks. The best option they have is to take Rohrabacher advice. They will save themselves a civil war. Partition for peace. Let the Albanians split. They will never be accepted by their Slav co occupants. The fragmented mess can then decide to either forge along in their historical fantasy land or joint their ancestral homeland Bulgaria.

Reply to Skenderbeu1444, 4 January 2017 23:03.

Fact check;

Check any list of countries that recognize Macedonia as FYROM and you will find Albania on that list.

Macedonian government built 7 ‘collective centers’ refugee camps in 1999 to shelter all the refugees which crossed the border from kosovo. These camps were called (Stenkovec 1, Stenkovec 2, Bojane, Radusha, Neprosteno, Cengrane and Senokos) they were all built on government land and managed by the government with assistance from UN and external NGO’s (doctors without borders…and so on..), search on line for photos of these camps which clearly show Macedonian police and army building these camps and managing them (providing shelter, food, power, water) back in 1999.

Albanians make up 16% of the population of Macedonia, (in the absence of any official census due to Albanian boycotted of the 2011 census) I’m using the data from the last election in which Albanian parties won 20 seats out of 120, 20/120=16%. If this was not the case then Albanian members in the Macedonian government would be advocating redistribution of electoral seats to better represent the Albanian minority in Macedonia, but they are not, because they know the Albanian minority in Macedonia only make up 16%.

Now all of a sudden, Montenegrins are distinct and different from Serbs. Give me a brake.
(njegos, 6 January 2017 15:15)

That's what the Montenegrins wish to call themselves. They wish to call themselves Montenegrins and not Serbs. They certainly couldn't care less what you or me think.
(icj1, 7 January 2017 21:24)

So if I decided to call myself Italian, that would make it so, right?
(njegos, 8 January 2017 15:59)

That's up to you what you wish to call yourself - there is no need for you to ask for my confirmation. Rest assured I would never tell you what you should wish to call yourself - it's none of my business :) The same way that, for example, it is none of Serbia's business what the citizens of Montenegro decide to call themselves.

From poor misguided icj: "That's what the Montenegrins wish to call themselves. They wish to call themselves Montenegrins and not Serbs..."

So if I decided to call myself Italian, that would make it so, right? And the next day, maybe I'll decide to be German and the next Irish and so on. The world according to icj is a very strange place. Where a person is born, their genetic makeup, their ancestry, etc. have nothing to do with one's ethnicity according to icj. You live in a fantasy world. Your comments get more absurd each time you post. Keep them coming. LOL!

+Leves D
Thing is that it's so obvious that it actually is a baseless and untenable bunch of short stories, with no continuity, and so unrealated that makes you wonder how they themselves believe in such craps. Even the sources they use are enough to recreate HOW these sick minds in the "Ministry of macedonization propaganda" in Skopje, are planning this unhistorical ILLITERATE ATTACK on their neighbor.
This thing has gonne so out of control in this Slavic country, that the Skopje University Professor who was the mastermind of this whole propaganda at first place, RESIGNED and recently stated:
"...Our history is Slavic, our language is Slavic... We are Slavs."

@Makedonec
Kuzman Shapkarev, considered an “ethnic Macedonian” in FYROM:
"But even stranger is the name 'Macedonians', which was imposed on us only 10 to 15 years ago by outsiders and not as something by our own intellectuals... Yet the people in Macedonia know nothing of that ancient name, reintroduced today with a cunning aim on the one hand and a stupid one on the other. They know the older word: 'Bugari', although mispronounced: they have even adopted it as peculiarly theirs, inapplicable to other Bulgarians. You can find more about this in the introduction to the booklets I am sending you. They call their own Macedono-Bulgarian dialect the 'Bugarski language', while the rest of the Bulgarian dialects they refer to as the 'Shopski language'."
(In a letter to Prof. Marin Drinov of May 25, 1888, Makedonski pregled, IX, 2, 1934, p. 55; the original letter is kept in the Marin Drinov Museum in Sofia, and it is available for examination and study)

Klaus Roth, ‎Ulf Brunnbauer, “Region, Regional Identity and Regionalism in Southeastern Europe”, [Ethnologia Balkanica (Book 11)], LIT Verlag , 2008: “Regional Macedonian had become 'ethnic' Macedonian nationalism, not least because of a remarkably successful campaign to win recognition for a uniquely Macedonian 'language'. This transformation shows that the content of collective loyalties can shift: patriots can manipulate multi-cultural regional loyalties to generate new ethnic sentiments.”

@Makedonac
Your language:
When the idea for creating the artificial "macedonian" language was made and by who?
During the last part of the 19th century TWO THINGS were taking place in PAEONIA (nowadays FYRMacedonia):
Serbs and Bulgarians antagonized and had as ultimate goal to annex and incorporate the original true Macedonia in Greece, and the wider Thessalonike region, with its huge strategic position.
In order to do so,
first the Bulgarians, and shorlty followed by the Serbs, they attempted to create an artificial geographically Macedonia on Paeonia (that Paeonia is geographically Macedonia which is as stupid as claiming that Bob Dylan wrote the song "Like a Virgin", and Springsteen performed it first), and both tried to create a Bulgaromacedonian or Serbomacedonian presense on the predominant Slavic population of Paeonia, which then they would incorporate, before they proceed annexing the true Macedonia (by claiming the unification of the two macedonias)
The Bulgarians were ahead in this race.They already, almost 20 years before the Serbs, managed to open schools and churches in Paeonia, where the predominant Slavic population was learning the Bulgarian "ideas"
THE GREEKS HAD schools and churches vastly on the true region of Macedonia in Greece, than to anywhere else.
The main role of the Patriarch was to ensure Macedonia, and its predominant Greek population.
So the Greeks didn't played any role in Paeonia and on your Slav ancestors,,,,To be continued

@Makedonac
I would be amazed if you'll read this.

1 (of 2).
You actually try to talk sense proposing that the Greeks have roots from a nation that they never came in touch? How is this possible?
By proposing this you plead on the Arnaiz-Villena 2001 genetic research, but you forgot to mention that this research was TRUSHED ON SIGHT by the international community of geneticists, as Villena attempted to construct the geneological tree of several nations, using a SINGLE MARKER methodology, which is completely inappropriate for such purposes.
The outcome, which you AVOID MENTIONING, was to give results like that the Icelanders relate genetically with the CONGOLESE, and the Japanese with the Western Africans.
Read the paper that trashed Villena:
http://www.readcube.com/articles/10.1038/415115b

The editor of the respected Immunology magazine that published the Arnaiz-Villena research, in his next Editorial proposed to his readers to PHYSICALLY REMOVE the papers of the Villena thesis, from the previous magazine.

So, enough with this stupidity...


2.
"macedonian language"

There's no macedonian language.
You baptized the Slavic language to "macedonian". This doesn't mean it's macedonian.
There never was a macedonian language.
The ancient macedons were speaking Doric Greek, and later during the time of Alexander the Koine Greek, the common language of all the Greeks; THAT's WHAT "KOINE GREEK" MEANS.
To be continued

Nemanja, the first Serbian king, was born in Podgorica.
(njegos, 6 January 2017 15:15)

And then what?! Not sure what your point is about a king of country X who was born in a city of country Y!
----------

Now all of a sudden, Montenegrins are distinct and different from Serbs. Give me a brake.
(njegos, 6 January 2017 15:15)

That's what the Montenegrins wish to call themselves. They wish to call themselves Montenegrins and not Serbs. They certainly couldn't care less what you or me think.
----------

And guess what? Now a Montenegrin church has been formed too to go along with their new country.
(njegos, 6 January 2017 15:15)

Yes, because Montenegrins wish to have a Montenegrin church. They certainly are not going to ask you or me about that lol

Tito did not invent Macedonians. Part 1

“The Christians, a herd of Greeks, Bulgarians and Macedonians, with the most villianous faces, morals and manners imaginable, have to be ruled with a tight hand in order to be kept from strangling one another.” San Francisco Call, July 21, 1890

“The same causes which have transferred Armenians into Austria have also brought thither Greeks, Macedonians and Albanians. The people of these different nations indeed are not numerous...” Containing a Description of the Manners, Customes, Character and Costumes of the People of that Empire, by Charles Green, 1823, Pg. 25

“Whereas, There are wage slaves of Macedonian descent in goodly numbers throughout Canada...Resolved: That the organization of the IWW takes steps as soon as possible to provide literature in the Macedonian language.” - Proceedings of the Second Annual Convention of the Industrial Workers of the World, 1906

“My place by the sea hospital was now filled up by a physician, a Macedonian, who had studied at Padua: He told me that in the year 1739, the last year of the Turkish War, his countrymen, the Macedonian Christians, had assembled a body of between thirty and forty thousand men, with a design to free themselves from Turkish slavery...” -Voyages and Travels Through the Russian Empire by John Cook in 1770, page 265

Tito did not invent the Macedonians. Part 3

"Should the Russians be happy or sad because in Macedonia the indigenous population, who call themselves Macedonians by the old name, are raising their voices? According to our personal opinion it would be just to give at least moral support to this numerous tribe that speaks a separate Slavic dialect and has its own history, not less interesting than the history of the Bulgarians and the Serbs..." - 1900, Petar Draganov

“We the Macedonians do not suffer as much by the Turks ... as by the Greeks, the Bulgarians and the Serbs who have set upon us like vultures upon a carcass in this tortured land and want to split it up….We clergymen, Macedonian in origin, should unite and urge our people to awaken, throw off foreign authority, throw off even the Patriarchate and the Exarchate, and be spiritually unified under the wing of the Archbishopric of Ohrid, our only true Mother Church.” June 22, 1891, Priest Gologanov

Macedonians barely freed themselves from the Greeks and what, now we are going to end up as Bulgars?” -Shapkarev, 1870

“I asked him what language they spoke, and my Greek interpreter carelessly rendered the answer Bulgare. The man himself had said Makedonski… I drew attention to this word and the witness explained that he did not consider the rural dialect used in Macedonia the same as Bulgarian, and refused to call it by that name.” – Allen Upward, 1908

Tito did not invent the Macedonians. Part 2

“I asked him if he was a Bulgarian? "I'm not." I asked him if he was a Serb, Greek, or perhaps even a Tsintsar. "No I am not. I am a Macedonian from Veles."” "Moje Uspomene" by Mihailo Markovic, 1906, pg. 316

"What are you reading?" "Macedonian songs, brother." He handed me the book -- they were folk songs, written in the Serbian, Macedonian and Bulgarian dialects... "But listen brother, here there are a lot of Serbian and Bulgarian songs," I told him. "They're not Bulgarian nor Serbian. These songs are ours and we are Macedonians -- therefore, Macedonian songs." Those were the words of my friend Veljko. -- "Hrvatska misao: smotra za norodno gospodarstvo, knijiz̆evnost i ..., Volume 3", 1904, pg. 519

“We have heard it many times from the Macedonians that they are not Bulgarians, rather that they are Macednoians ...” 1871, Petko Slaveykov

"In the part of Macedonia now subject to Greek rule the language of the current ruling authority is barely understood in the country ... When you ask the people what their nationality is they almost always reply 'We are Macedonians'!" – Major Barnar, 1919

Once more: Ancient Macedonia was and still is a part of Greece. FYROM, on the contrary, corresponds to ancient Paeonia, not to ancient Macedonia: "Macedonia was - and still is - a territory of northern Greece. The Ancient Macedonians were of Greek origin and spoke a broader rougher dialect of Greek." (Stephen Batchelor, “The Ancient Greeks for Dummies”, 2008)

"The so-called Republic of 'Macedonia' [FYROM] is located in what was ancient Paeonia." (Paul Cartledge, University of Cambridge, UK)

“Paeonia, roughly where the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia is today.”
(Timothy Howe, Jeanne Reames, “Macedonian Legacies”, Regina Books, 2008, p.239)

“Ovid was lax in his geography, not least over Paeonia (in fact roughly coextensive with the present Slav republic of Macedonia).”
(Ovid [Author], Peter Green [Translator], “The Poems of Exile”, University of California Press, 2005, p.319)

“Besides the former kingdom of Macedon, the Roman region included the territories of Paeonia where the contemporary FYR Macedonia rests.”
(Ridvan Peshkopia, “Conditioning Democratization”, Anthem Press, 2015, p.189)

Hence for the sake of historical accuracy and for good relations with all of it's neighbours, FYROM should be named "Paeonia".

@Makedonec: Pulevski's opinions was based on the claim that the ancient Macedonian language had Slavic components in it and thus that the ancient Macedonians were Slavic, and that Slav Macedonians were descendants of them, which is absolute, utter nonsense! Yet he described himself sometimes as a "Serbian patriot" (Roumen Daskalov and Tschavdar Marinov. Entangled Histories of the Balkans: Volume One: National Ideologies and Language Policies. BRILL, 2013. p. 316.) and also viewed his ethnic designation as "Bulgarian from the village of Galicnik" (Contested Ethnic Identity: The Case of Macedonian Immigrants in Toronto, 1900-1996, Peter Lang, 2010, ISBN 3034301960, p. 67)

From Makedonec: "...Spare me the same old chauvinistic Balkan line of how Tito created the Macedonians to the detriment of the Serbs or the burglars or the Greeks. Furthermore, it's 2017. Get over it. We Macedonians are here and here to stay."

Call it what you want, but Tito played a big role, if not the biggest role in laying the groundwork to Macedonia and the Macedonian Church being recognized. He did the same thing in Montenegro where historically people there considered themselves Serbs. Petar Njegos Petrovich, arguably the most famous person in Serbian history always referred to himself as a Serb in his writings. Nemanja, the first Serbian king, was born in Podgorica. Now all of a sudden, Montenegrins are distinct and different from Serbs. Give me a brake. And guess what? Now a Montenegrin church has been formed too to go along with their new country. Sound familiar?

You say Macedonia is here to stay. If that's true, best of luck to you. But reality says it's hanging on by a thread and storm clouds are on the horizon in the form of your sizable Albanian minority. Good luck with that.

Dima,

Why do you stop your research in 2006 at what you want to believe? Why not go back to 1875 and cite Gjorgji Pulevski's book (published in Belgrade) called: Dictionary of Three Languages: Macedonian, Albanian and Turkish? Why don't you go back to see what the Macedonians thought about themselves and their nation and their language? As Pulevski wrote in 1875:

"What do we call a nation? People who are of the same origin and who speak the same words and who live and make friends with each other, who have the same customs and songs and entertainment are what we call a nation, and the place where that people lives is called the people's country. Thus, the Macedonians also are a nation and the place where they live is called Macedonia."

Tito didn't create Pulevski and the Macedonian movement. The Macedonians created the Macedonian movement.

Good luck with your delusions, people. Keep up the chauvinism, ignorance and bigotry. Look how much it has gotten you your Greater Serbia, or Greater Albania, or Greater Bulgaria and or Greater Greece.

When you don't have much going in your personal life, you resort to this despicable form of ultra-nationalism. You cling onto an ideology because that ideology gives you something you can't give yourself -- meaning. You fill the voids in your life with poison. You asked for it...you shall receive.

Encyclopedia of World Geography, Volume 1, 2006, p.564: “[FYRO]Macedonian nationalism, as distinct from other South Slavic peoples is, moreover, a relatively new concept, introduced and encouraged by dictator Josip Tito, upon the creation of a separate Macedonian Republic within the Yugoslav federation in 1946. Prior to this, the area generally known as Vardarska banovina (_the district of the Vardar river_) was considered simply an extension of its southern Slavic neighbors, either Serbians to the north, or Bulgarians to the east. Slavs arrived in the Balkan Peninsula only in the 6th century AD, and therefore have nothing to do with the well-known classical kingdom of Macedonia, which dominated the rest of Greece, the Near East, Egypt and Persia under Alexander the Great in the 4th century BCE.”

Njegos,
Families were torn apart several decades prior to Titos Yugoslavia when Turkey opened its doors to Greek, Bulgarian and Serbian propaganda that divided Macedonians. If anything, the recognition of the Macedonian church helped unify Macedonia families who had been previously divided by the Serbian and Bulgarian propaganda in this part of Macedonia. Still, Titos Yugoslavia also gave as many blows to the Macedonian I dependence movement as it did to the chetnik and ustashe movements. Spare me the same old chauvinistic Balkan line of how Tito created the Macedonians to the detriment of the Serbs or the burglars or the Greeks. Furthermore, it's 2017. Get over it. We Macedonians are here and here to stay.

Njegos

There is no doubt that Tito played politics with the Macedonians, as he did with all national groups of Macedonia. But just because the Macedonian language, nationality and MOC were recognized under Yugoslavia communism, itdoesn'mean they were artificial or political creations. In the mid to late 1800s, there were several Macedonian intellectuals, priests and leaders who were demanding the recognition of a MAcedonian church, language and nationality. This movement grew throughout the 1900s and it was the communists that fulfilled their promise of recognizing these. Something that fascist Servian, Bulgarian and Greek regimes of the 1920s and 1930s would not do, for their own political and chauvinistic reasons.Just because Macedonian nationalism as a unified strength developed later than other Balkan countries doesn't make it any more artificial.

Vasko,

In addition to the ship manifest of 5 vratnichani from 1907 who declared themselves Bulgarian and not Serbian, and my great great grandfather , who put that he was Macedonian , I have the draft cards from World War I of three vratnichani in 1918 who declared that their nationality was Bulgarian and not Serbian . Their names are Gligor Dimovich, Cvetko Makovich and Kosta Elich. If these vratnichani were such patriotic Serbians , they would not have declared themselves Bulgarians even to avoid going to war . Further , vratnichani who came to the United States after 1913 had ich at the end of their names but did not say they were Serbian, while the ones who came before 1913 did not have ich and did not say they were Serbian. All this evidence shows that the vratnichani who migrated to the United States in the early 1900s did not think of themselves as Serbians .

Vasko,

You have some in your lineage and your relatives who claim they were Serb. But I am confident in the non-Serbness of Vratnichani, and Stepanovci in particular, based on my research and on the conversations I have had with old-timers both here in the US and in Vratnica. Label yourself as you wish; but know that as adamantly as you strive to claim the Serbness of Stepanovci and Vratnichani, I will be around even more adamantly protecting their non-Serbness.

Pozdrav, familija. Da si zhiv i zdrav, sve najdobro.

I,ve been following the debate between Vasko and Makedonec and I must say that it is very interesting. If I were keeping score, however, I have to give it to Vasko in a landslide.

One angle that hasn't been mentioned that greatly contributed to the division we now witness among the people living in present-day Macedonia or hail from there, is the role Tito played. He was instrumental in creating the Macedonian Orthodox Church in 1968 in Yugoslavia. His strategy was to divide and conquer. He had great opposition from Serbs loyal to Draza Mihailovich who lived in Macedonia and in the diaspora who were born there. By creating another ethnic group, separate and distinct from Serbs, Tito reduced his opposition. As a result, Tito won allies and in many cases families were torn apart.

I'd be interested to hear what Vasko and Makedonec have to say about this development and how it contributed to the creation of Macedonia.

Yes yes, now I know. Baba Milica was my grandfather’s sister. Your wife’s mother (4 sisters: Ljubica, Katica, Olgica & Dragica) are my mother’s 1st cousins. What a coincidence to meet you on here.

Back to your comments…..Like I said, we have differences of historical truths and my proof is in the pudding. Meaning, I know what my grandfathers and their fathers (and so) felt. As I said, you're more than welcomed to ask Dedo Risto (Baba Milica's youngest brother....who is close with your wife’s mother and all her sisters) his sentiment towards Serb ethnicity w/in Stepanovci. Better yet, go speak with Fr Kristijan and his uncle, or Kosta Savic. We’re not all delusional and you and a very few holding the truths to Vratnica’s ancient Macedonian roots.

Labeling Stepanovci’s ethnicity as strictly fantasy is truly unjust and unfair to those passed onto the Lords presence. You can't change what the people of the past felt, and I don't care to change what you say you are. I'm just speaking up in their place and standing up for the facts of the past and obviously for most of Vratnicani today who are Serbs. Yes, there were political policies in place by both Serbian and Bulgarian regimes in the early 19 centuries to win over a good portion of inhabitants of Ottoman Macedonia. The only thing is Vratnicani never had to be persuaded to Serbdom. It was present since the early middle ages.

Vasco do everyone a favor and return to Serbia since being Serb us so criticaly important to you on "Macedonia".

No one cares about your redneck peasant serb immigration down South.

"MACEDONIA" has 2 million residents of which 50,000 are serb settlers.

See how big your presence is?

No, that's incorrect on your Mayflower analogy. You have to remember, first, these migrations to Vratnica happened less than 250yrs ago. The last family that migrated from today's Kosovo was 'Dlabocani' in 1820. More importantly, these families were not migrating overseas, to another country etc where they would have been assimilated by another language/culture/people. If we follow your logic then the fact that you're born here makes you strictly American, and not Macedonian or anything else; however, you still identify as Macedonian even though you're born and brought up in the states. It was within the same administration which was the Kosovo Vilayet and same dialectal zone. To them they were Serbs moving amongst other Serbs; therefore, it's perfectly intellectual that their forebears continued to feel as Serbs.

I don't have an issue with anyone calling themselves Macedonian, but I will not be ignorant to ancestors within your brotherhood who identified as Serb, and why they felt as such.

Dedo Risto is the brother of my grandfather Dedo Slavko (Slave) that passed away some time ago. Baba Milica (if the correct one), is my mother's mom, and she hailed from Rogacevo. Her family was from Sirinicka Zupa, and they came from today's Montenegro in the late 18th century.

Click on the link below and then click on Atanasije Petrovic. Notice the year he was born, his 'last name', what village, his dress, who he fought for and medals awarded to him....

http://xn----7sbbgqqcsmdf1anf9f.xn--90a3ac/ru/Galerija?page=6&sortOrder=naziv

You're not going to find anyone from the nearby villages that fought for VMRO/Illinden uprising etc.

Also, most people in Macedonia do not celebrate a Slava; however, the one's that do (aka....the village of Vratnica and immediate surrounding villages), did so on their own free will. These Slava's were not forced by the SOC, because if they were people in Debar/Ohrid/Prespa/Bitola would also celebrate Slava. All those aforementioned cities fell within the SOC in the middle ages (up until its abolishment in the late ~18th c).

Here is an interesting read for you, but it's in Serbian (you can translate to English if need be). Scroll down midway or so and you can read about Tetovo's situation in the 19th c:

http://www.srpsko-nasledje.rs/sr-l/1998/11/article-3.html

Vasko,

My wife’s baba did have a brother named Slavko and a brother named Risto, but it looks like they are not the same people.

Regardless, my Mayflower analogy is actually spot on. I’m not “ethnic” American yet because both my parents are from Macedonia. Just as in someone born in America with two parents born in England in 1790 still identified as English. But after several generations of intermarrying with people from other areas and from assimilating to the new land, their descendants in the 1900s were clearly no longer English and instead American.

My brotherhood Stepanovci did not identify as Serbs. They thought of themselves as “nashi” or Chrisitans, some even Sloveni, and later as Macedonians…and then another branch starting thinking they were Serbs. Identifying as Serbian or Bulgarian (like all 5 of those Vratnichani who came to the US in 1907), didn’t really start until the late 1800s – and even then, it was more about attachment to Serbian or Bulgarian Church than it was about some sort of “ethnic” feeling.

Please, if you have proof showing that any of my ancestors identified as Serb, provide it. Not just theories and hypothesis and fantastical claims – but actual evidence. Based on most of your comments, you do have a problem with how Macedonians call themselves, first and foremost by insisting that Macedonia shouldn’t be called Macedonia. If you keep on telling me what I am and what my country is not, I’ll keep on reciprocating.

Vasko,

I'm not telling you that you're ancestors are or are not Serbs. That's your interpretation. But don't tell me that mine were Serbs, or that Macedonia should be really named Vardarija, or that most Shar Planina Macedonians really have Serbian roots. It's simply just not substantiated on a general basis. And where there are Kosovo/Serb roots, many of the migrations happened hundreds of years ago. It's like someone in the US having a few ancestors who came from England in the 1600s who still insists on being called English instead of American because he had a pre-dedo aboard the Mayflower. It just doesn't make sense. But that's your prerogative if you want to be Serb and cling to the Serbian identity.

The Bulgarian, Greek and Serbian churches and schools caused much havoc in Macedonia in the late 1800s and early 1900s, dividing families and villages...convincing them they were this nationality or that nationality. Macedonians woke up and united against that and decided that they were not Serb, Bulgar or Greek and took the name of the land they lived on in order to unite themselves. You can cling to that which divided our people, or move on to that which unites us -- it's your choice. But know that it's a personal decision and not representative of the majority from the region.

Also, it looks like you are first cousins with my wife if your dedo is named Risto. My wife's baba was named Milica.

Macedonia is artificial Country . It's made up and won't last for long Macedonian citizens have a decision to make sad but true everybody knows that

Vasko,

Your interpretation of what happened after San Stefano is wrong.

Anyway, my grandfather was adopted by his mother's brother. He was a Sinadin before and after he was adopted.

Makedonec

What haplogroup was revealed to you (E-V13, G, J etc)?

Well done Dacic, Macedonia is Greece and Serbia should support the truth and not a fake country like FYROM.

Vasko

This is not dusko, it's one of his sons. Thanks for the info, though.

"We gave everything to Yugoslavia... to end up being lectured and slapped by someone from the outside over Serbia's behavior. "
Other countries and ethnicities and religions also gave everything to Yugoslavia, you could have some respect for them. I know Dacic lives in the past but now its 1918 he wants to live in. When will the voters send these people to retirement.

2017 called.
Wanted to inform the Balcans it's not 317AC neither 1917 anymore.

Please note that FYROM corresponds to ancient Paeonia, NOT to ancient Macedonia, which was - and still is - a part of Greece.

Dusko

My great grandfather born in 1872 had the lastname Bogdanovic as an infant.

Btw, go tell my grandfather Rsto Filipovic he's not a Serb and his father Boris and grandfather Todor were non declared Serbs.

Also i had a grandfather Petar Krstic that came through Ellis in 1903 wth that lastname.

Goodnight

Vasko

We did not talk on the phone. Maybe you did with a relative of mine, but not me. As I didn't talk to anyone on the phone about wanting to write a book.

@ aci I dont have the info albanians boycotted your independence referendum but if it is true they acted like that because they felt more protected in the former republic of macedonia. Aci are you totally nuts or what? We are neighbors and you don't even know that unfortunately albanian likewise serbia and other mentally retarded nations recognized you as the republic of macedonia? Macedonia gave shelter to 400.000 kosovars? No, albanians from macedonia did it for their brothers and they dont need to thank us for that. There is a macedonian minority in albania, it is recognized but they prefer to be calles Bulgarian minorit and who can blame them knowing you? Aci, decades ago, a very wise Greek man said to another not very wise Albanian man " ask macedonians to call their state as the Federation of Albanians and Slavs". Only Putin can save your asses Macedonians. Now lets talk about prewar 1991 and albanians wwii past macedonians.

Vosko don't worry your small brain SerbDom is a success and united at the Hague and in HELL.

Mission accomplished!

Actually, no, it's not up in flames at all. There were plenty of family's with 'ic' endings....Filipovic, Bogdanovic, Djordjevic etc. All those names existed during the years you listed below. As far as the 'ov' endings...hmm, I'm hearing the San Stefano Treaty, where all of Vardar was incorporated into Bulgaria......and then there was the Bulgarian Exarchate. Very short lived was that treaty, and they did force change names (to some). Naturally, if they were traveling overseas their documentation would reference the changed last names, because technically they were under Bulgarian administration. What’s key is it was changed from ‘ic’ to ‘ov’ by force, but they had ‘ic’ under Turkish rule. Meaning, Serbs did not force ‘ic’ last names onto Vratnicani in the 19th century. Let’s not forget also during the Bulgarian Exarchate, the Bulgars tried wiping out any Serbian writings/icons within churches. Their priests were not very welcomed in Polog, and the upper villages (Podgorcani) wanted them out!! If memory serves me correct, your greatgrandfather was adopted into Sinadinoj.

Vasko,

My grandfather was adopted into the family, by his mother's brother, so it's still the same genealogical lineage. Same blood.

I've taken DNA tests, and I have twice as much "pre-Slavic" DNA as I do "Slavic" DNA. But none of that really matters. What really matters is that the name of Macedonia is only Macedonia, and there are Macedonian people who speak a Macedonian language. And many of us Vratnichani are Macedonians.

You can be Serb, have a Serb identity, and a Serbian history. Just don't deny that to the Macedonians of the region and try to tell them they're roots are really Serbian. That's mutual respect.

Icj: I was laughing so hard in your verbal defense acrobatics. ...

Smacking Serbs around is entertaining.

I'm loving it.

Stepanovac -

If you want to know more about your personal background you should take the dna test (or maybe you have). Based on physical characteristics I can for certain ‘assume’ that Stepanovci are not of the Dinaric physical type (or haplogroup I2a which makes up about 45% of the Serbian population); however, they are quite tall for people in Macedonia. My guess is Stepanovci are of Slavic descent and are of the R1a haplogroup DNA (which is the purest Slavic haplogroup to date). Are you sure you’re pure blood Stepanovci, or maybe your grandfather was adopted into that brotherhood? I understand that there were males that were adopted, because Stepanovci by far and wide consider themselves Serbs.

Accept and respect everyone for what he is. Forget nazionalism it just keeps corrupted thief politicians in power and population in poverty. And focus on economy.

Family Stepanovac

To be clear, we are different than Serbs west of the Drina and even so from Sumadinci. We talk different, look different, have a different mentality etc etc; however, that is no different than 2 brothers. They look and act different but are still blood. See the Serbian name is not just meant for the regions of its original epicenter (Hercegovina/Dalmatia); rather, it's meant for all people that supported, fought and bled for Serbian Kings and land. Vratnicani do have a proud history of having given 100's of lives for the King and for Serbdom. For that fact, we are united with the rest of brave Serbs who fought for the very same reasons. God bless the current country of Macedonia and the people that live there, but I'm sorry, our ancestors battle for Serbdom should never be forgotten or taken lightly as people that were somehow misinformed of their ancient Macedonian roots.

God bless you brother, whether you're Macedonian we're still brothers!

Stepanovac

Yea yea, I remember speaking with you via phone 2yrs ago. You mentioned you were or wanted to write a book (if I remember accurately).
Listen, we can say that about any ethnic group….what were they before that and before that etc. What were ancient Macedonians before that? Obviously they weren’t Macedonians, and based on the haplogroups in Greece, they all originated from either Asia Minor or North Africa (Egypt/Lebanon). Vratnicani have every right to consider themself Serbs. Why? Same reason why you are Macedonian, correct? For instance, today’s Macedonia was forcefully incorporated into the Kingdom of Macedon well beyond 2,000yrs ago. Even though there were Illyrian/Thracian tribes that fought against Phillip, you consider our area Macedonian for the mere fact of incorporation into that kingdom. Based on that logic, we are Turks since we were incorporated into their Empire, or we’re all southern Serbs as again we were incorporated in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia. We can go on and on about that and just run circles. I even claimed on my original posts that we are NOT original Serbs from Dalmatia/Bosnia etc. Overtime the old settlers and newcomer Slavs took to the Serbian side about 1000yrs ago or so and what’s lasted longest over the course of 1400yrs is 1. Slavic language 2. Serbian state and 3. Bulgarian state.

Furthermore, Vasko...

If Vratnichani were hardcore Serbs, then what do you make of this 1907 ship manifest. Five men came from Vratnica to the United States on the Kronprinzessin Cecile on November 6, 1907. One of them was my great-great-grandfather's brother. Why -- if they were such hardcore Serbs -- does their nationality appear as Bulgarian and their surnames end as -off? Seems to me they would have wrote "Serbian" if they were true Serbs. (This is all searchable on the Liberty Ellis Foundation website).

There's Risto Blazeff, born 1885; Risto Sinadinoff, born 1871; and Jakim Kotchoff, born 1865; Milutin Lilichoff, born 1883; and Stoyan Janeff, born 1875. All from Vratnize, Macedonia.

There goes your theory of the -ic and Serbianess of Vratnichani. Up in smoke. Up in flames, actually.

Vasko,
I am Stepanovci. My family is not Serb. And neither are most Vratnichani living in Vratnica. There is no direct evidence linking Stepanovci to Kosovo. There are many theories, such as that Stepanovci settled Moravce, left to Kosovo, and then came back. But where they came from before Moravce, no one knows. You probably are one of those people who believes Vratnica originates from “Vrati se” when we all know Vratnica means “gate.” But the real meaning of Vratnica doesn’t fit well into the Serb hypothesis.

And even if some ancestors did originate in Kosovo: so what? Where did they come before that? No one knows. And don’t act like you do, because records from that time are far and in between. We’re probably related, and you can say you’re Serb, but just try saying that my family or my ancestors are not really Macedonian.

Further, several families attend the Macedonian Church in Sterling Heights, and my father co-founded the Macedonian Church there and was its second president. And he constantly donates to St. Petka, so don’t spread lies.

As far as your idea that the Macedonian revolutionaries were Bulgarians, get a hold of yourself. I’ve researched and wrote a lot about this. Maybe you can learn something other than the “Serbian point of view” on the matter.

https://www.amazon.com/Anarchy-Macedonia-under-Ottomans-1878-1912-ebook/dp/B01LMZMM5C/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1483553909&sr=1-1

Of course, dear, of course. Macedonia cannot remain viable without Serbia's help. Croatia is at Serbia's mercy. Bosnia & Hercegovina the same. Montenegro cannot live without Serbia. And, of course, Kosovo would not exist without Serbia's magnanimity. It would be hard to find a country that can survive without Serbia's permission. I hope you feel better now in the knowledge that Serbia is the master of the universe lol
(icj1, 2 January 2017 23:19)

This is another example of your hatred of everything and anything Serbian
(njegos, 3 January 2017 19:11)

Considering Serbia an important country makes somebody a Serb hater?!!! If anything, that is the best thing that somebody can tell Serbia, considering how much Serbia craves for importance and relevance.

Just because you are a Serb hater who cannot stand Serbia being an important country, that does not mean that everybody else is like you!

Makedonec

Last names in the Balkans didn’t begin happening for the most part until the early 19th century. Kosovo, Serbia and Macedonia during Turkish times had last names that reflected the father’s first name (w/out any suffix). An example of this would be: Vasko Todor; Todor Stojan, Stojan Stojce etc. The ‘ic’ endings were more prevalent in Bosnia, Croatia and lesser extent Montenegro during Turkish times; hence, why people from those regions have last names that date back 400-600yrs. The ‘ov’ ending does not insinuate a person from Vratnica that was say ‘Jordanov’ was a non-Serb. If that’s the case then 25% of Serbs in Vojvodina are not Serbs (so not true). Even Montenegrins in the Turkish defters had ‘ov’ last names (ie Vucicev, Vuckov, Radov, Radojev’ etc), but these are the most prideful and bravest of all Serbs. The residents of Vratnica did not have lasting last names (without the suffix being changed), until the very end of the 19th/beginning 20th century; however, they did have ‘ic’ ending a century prior to that.

Makedonec

Firstly, I’m surprised a Vratnicanin as ‘yourself’ is blinded by false history of Vratnica. I’ve stated in the previous posts, there are NO Macedonian stories passed down from generation to generation period. Sadly, there are some Detroit families that attend MOC, but that’s merely because they’re afraid to donate to St Petka (which is fine, but they’re ancestors never considered themselves Macedonian). Additionally, so called Macedonian revolutionaries spoke of themselves as more Bulgarian than those in Bulgaria proper. Serbian soldiers never beat up people in our village, rather it was Bulgarians! During WWII there were traitors everywhere, even amongst Cetniks. Let me give you a quick breakdown:

Stepanovci – Serbs, original settlers of Moravce aka Vratnica
Todorovci – original settlers
Koecevci – Serbs from Klisura, Kosovo
Siskovci – Serbs from Ljume, Albania
Kostanecevci – Serbs from Kamenaglava, Kosovo
Dlabocani – Serbs from Globocica, Kosovo
Mojsicevci – Serbs from Ristovac, Vranje
Maskocevci – Serbs from Strpce, Kosovo
Dobrocevci – Serbs from old Kacanik, Kosovo
Pejovci – settlers from Neraste, Polog/Tetovo
Dabocevci – Serbs from Jazince, border village to Kosovo
Papudzini/Kraguljevci – Serbs north of Skopje
Danecevci – unknown
Golomevci - unknown

With that, Sveta Petka church in Troy does not brainwash anyone! There is a reason why people feel as Serbs from Vratnica.

Macedonia has been Greek since the ancient times and Serbia knows the truth, just like the rest of the planet! The clowns in FYRM are Slavs in denial who have no right to claim Greek regions and Greek history.

Greece wants to destroy Macedonia and the Macedonians. Just the foolish ingnorant plebs can think that it's about ancient history 3000 year old nonsense arguments. It's present day geopolitics, plain and simple.

Side note. Macedonians are Byzantine Ortodox and are about 1.7 million. Albanians are Muslim and between 3 states in the region are almost 10 million. Greece makes a BIG mistake that is aggressive and blocks Macedonians while supporting the Albanians in the region.
And sooner or later Greece will bare the consequences that supports Albanians instead of the Ortodox Macedonians.

Greek goal is to destroy Macedonia and the Macedonians.
(MKD, 4 January 2017 12:27)


Their problem is not Macedonia but the false history they've accepted when Greece was first formed in 19th sentury. To refuse from Macedonia they first need to refuse from Alexander. But it will mean the ruin of the myth of some ancient Greece that they cannot afford. So the circle is closed. Same as Serbs cannot refuse from the false version of the battle of 1389 or the Whites from the Skanderbeg tales. Each of them need a consolidating component to keep the bricks in the wall. It's a sad story that I see no way out.

Stop abusing the history of Greece or at least stop doing that in a Serbian site.

(Grobar, 3 January 2017 23:37)

Try to see the difference between the ancient Greeks and the current Hellens. Those are different things. Same as the German tribes and the Deutsch, the Armenians and the Haes, the Georgians and the Kartvels, the Jews and the Israelites, the Turks and the Ottomans, the Albanians and the Shqiptars ect. ect.

Reality check:

1. Modern Greeks are not related to Ancient Greeks. Ancient Greeks were blonde and blue eyed, Modern Greeks are dark, tanned and look very similar to their Turkish neighbours.

2. The Macedonian country, its borders and culture were artifically created in the late 1940's by Tito. If you are a Macedonian who celebrates a slava (patron saint day), you are a SERB! If you do not celebrate a slava, you are BULGARIAN!

3. The current territory of FYROM was histroically always apart of Serbia. Skoplje was the capital of the Serbian empire. Up until the 1940's, the area was either called Southern Serbia, or Vardar. There was no such this as a Macedonian until the 1940's (people were either Serb or Bulgarian. In some families, one brother would identity themselves as a Serb while another would identify themselves as Bulgarian).

Case closed

Dacic, don't just say it, do it! Macedonia is Greek, Serbia should finally support our real brothers and the only nation in the world that helped us in the '90s. We can't condemn a greater Albania and at the same time support a greater FYROM. FYROM is historically Serbian and Greek alnd and those who live there should be grateful for having a country in the first place.

he's is correct he wishes Yugoslavia was not created if this was the case Macedonia would be whole and and may have not been carved out. He is also correct that the Greeks are brother they both have the slavic gene more so than the Macedonians that does make them technically brothers.

Skenderbeu : They can't stand each other ortodox and catolic but they always unite in their hatred for Turkey so I have no idea Rote.

It's a problem of all Balkan peoples who became victims of the big European powers since late 18th century. Another problem is that the Romanovs were not Russians but part of the Oldenburgs who ruled Europe in 19th century.

After the fall of the Great Horde called here ВСЯ РУСЬ in Great Porta - ВЕЛИКОЕ ГОСУДАРСТВО and in Europe - ВЕЛИКАЯ ТАРТАРИЯ, there appeared several Russian states :

OSMANIA-ATAMANIA = GREAT P-ORDA, AFRICA, BOTH AMERICAS
SWEDEN = SVETIA
RECH POSPOLITA = WEST OF RUSSIA AND POLAND
PRUSSIA
CRIMEA
GREAT TARTARIA = SIBERIA, CANADA, USA
INDEPENDENT TARTARIA = IRAN, AFGHANISTAN, CENTRAL ASIA
PEGAYA TARTARIA = NORTH CHINA, KOREA, EAST RUSSIA
CHINA = SOUTH-WEST CHINA
SMALL TARTARIA = NORTH CAUCASUS
TIBETSKAYA TARTARIA = TIBET, EAST CHINA, IDOCHINA
MOGOLISTAN = INDIA, PAKISTAN
ASTRAKHAN
JAPAN ect.

Using German troops Romanovs defeated Great Tartaria and united some of our lands. Success came in 1775 when Pugachev was defeated. It enabled the USA to appear because 237 000 armed Germans were sent there and in 1776 they launched war against the Russian Confederates of Con\Han Feodor calling them Indians now ... Soon the Ottomans were punished for their treason of 1774 when they signed a peace treaty letting destroy Tobolsk ... Russia annuled the treaty of 1774 and attacked the turks on the Balkans.

Greece is trying to destabilise the Balcans. Greece is blocking Macedonia and setting the stage to attack and split Macedonia with Serbia, Albania and Bulgaria. Greek goal is to destroy Macedonia and the Macedonians. Something Greece cannot do IF Macedonia is part of NATO. This Nazi Greek and Balcans mentality is why the Balcans are the poorest shit hole of Europe.

Name issue, ancient history etc are just excuses for the blockade and vetoes.

@rote

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but Orbini was not a historian. He was educated, but he did not study History. I suggest you read the books of real historians, otherwise you only humiliate yourself. Alexander the Great and all the rest of Macedonians were Greeks. Stop abusing the history of Greece or at least stop doing that in a Serbian site.

(Grobar, 3 January 2017 23:37)

PLEASE TELL ME THAT HE WAS A CATHOLIC MONK !
HE WAS A BIGGER HISTORIAN THAN ANYBODY YOU KNOW.
READ THE LIST OF 300 AUTHORS THAT HE USED FOR HIS BOOK !

You are not welcome here.
(Grobar, 4 January 2017 10:06)

Two weeks ago I visited Kolomna city 100 km away from Moscow. Site seeing was the only reason why I went there. They have a very poor historical museum but I was satisfied with everything else that I saw. Many people think that we have Kremlin only in Moscow and it's not true. We have many Kremlins and some of them were bigger than the one you know. Kolomna is one such city. Walls reach 17-18 meters high and 4,5 meters fat. It was here that the famous 12 tribes of Israel started their 40 years conquest. It reflected as Exodus in Buble and in Russian they are called 12 колен Израилевых that meant 12 Columns of Israel. 10 out of them were formed here in Russia (Israel) while 2 others arrived from Judea (Turkey). Serbs were in the Israeli columns. English words "column" and "colonialism" also take roots here in Kolomna City. Balkans was the stronghold of the Great Horde so they concentrated all 12 hordes (columns, tribes) there. Places where 9 of them were located are known. The hordes conflicted all the time but when the 40 years Reconquista started they acted united. And they finished the war in the end of land in Santiago de Compostella building here St.James Church.

PS-1 In Kolomna there's a monument to Murat I whom Obilic killed.

https://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%94%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%98_%D0%94%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8

PS-2 What makes you think that b92 is a Serbian media?

@rote

Grobar is a word that "men" like you will never be able to understand.

Stop abusing History.
Stop offending Orthodoxy.
Stop using a Serbian site to do ridiculous propaganda based on non-historical "arguments".
Stop writing in a Serbian site since you are clueless about the history of the Balkans.

You may have Russian DNA, but there is nothing Russian isnide you. You are not welcome here.

Skenderbeu

Erdogan's father and mother both were Georgians by origin and they spoke Georgian in their family although he denies it today. Since 1942 all citizen regardless of their origin were oblidged to change their names for Turkish ones. Turks like the Greek are a composed nation that had no joint ancestor. And so is their language composed by two professors invited from Russia by Ataturk in 1923. It's a funny story how they were changing the Osmani language for the Turkish. Turkic languages are all artificial and the peoples have nothing in common.

It was one of the artificial languages invented in the Great Horde. Turkic was for international communication as it was very simple. Persian was for history and literature, latin - for juridicial and medical works so that specialists worldwide could understand one another. Later it was used for the religion too.

Arab initially was to communicate the hordes abroad - a kind of a secret code. But later when it stopped to be secret it was also used for science and the newly appeared Quran. Word Arab is Russian and it means A-slave. Those are different Semite tribes that use Quran language to communicate.

Stalin was an Ossetian because his father was as such while his mother was Georgian. In Caucasus only father matters.

I know little about your relations with Turkey but it seems that Erdogan is cornered enough to behave and it can help to settle things in the region. Then Russia may garantee Serbian interests.

@ Rote Erdogan declared that Kosovo is Turkey. Now both us and Serbs were not glad to hear that, Serbs protested openly while Thaci remained silent and our analists were mostly against that. But despite these declarations it all depends on what we have to offer to Erdogan the Sokol Rote. It looks like he wants us to close all the colleges and activities of that Gylen he accuses for the coup. Turks have already sent a list of organizations they want Albania to shut down. Besides Rama pushed for a strategic partnership with Turkey and was invited to the wedding of Erdo's daughter. Of course it was not by accident that Thaci chose Turkey to send that heartfelt message to Putin I agree with you. On the other hand for our christians if you mention Turkey is like you mention the devil and this last flirt with Erdo is spoiling our relations with Greece. Greece accuses Turkey to be the Troy's horse in the relations between Albania and Greece. Now you read here our christians and you think how calm and educated and open minded they are. Don't be fooled Rote as most of them are more fondamentalists than Al Qaeda and their hatred for everything that comes from the Orient is unbelievable. They can't stand each other ortodox and catolic but they always unite in their hatred for Turkey so I have no idea Rote. Erdo is originally from Georgia? Well well well, the last Georgian we Albanians loved a lot was Stalin!

I think Macedonia should be called South Serbia or even take on the word Yugoslav because that means what they are: southSlav. They should not be called Macedonians. What is wrong with being called YugoSLAV? There is SLOVenia, there is SLOVakia.

Reply to Skenderbeu1444, 3 January 2017 05:46.

Why Macedonians don’t show much affection towards Albanians nowadays…
Let’s ignore pre 1990s and Albanians WW2 past, and start from 1991.

1991-Albainian in Macedonia boycott Macedonian referendum on independence from Yugoslavia (presumably because Albanians wanted to stay in Yugoslavia?).
1995-Albaina changes name recognition from Republic of Macedonia to FYROM. (why? To appease greece or was there a more sinister motive?)
1991 to Present – Republic of Albania denies the existence of any Macedonian minority in Albania (while at the same time actively advocates for additional minority rights for Albanians in Macedonia)
1999 – Macedonian government gave shelter and protection to 400,000 Kosovo Albanian refugees, yet still no official thank you from Kosovo state or acknowledgment from the Albanian people that Macedonians are your friends.
2001 –Kosovo insurgents invade northern Macedonia killing 75 Macedonian solders, 80 civilians (20 Macedonian and 60 Albanians).
2001 to Present – after agreeing and implementing ALL of the Ohrid accord, Albanians now want to revisit the accord and add new additional items like make Albanian an official state language, and canonization of Macedonia.
2012 – Smilkovci Lake Massacre and the general Albanian reaction when the case went to court.
2015 – Kumanovo incident

Skenderbeu1444, a wise man once said “ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country”

@Azir- The devil himself could recognize Kosovo, that and $0.25 will get you...well, nothing! That is why they are trying so hard to get Srbija itself to recognize... It's all that matters! NOBODY will invest a Penny into K&M without Srbija's recognition... Why would they? Tomorrow their investments could turned to dust without the security of Serbian garauntee to territorial commitment! Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating this, I'm just stating my opinion... Ever notice the lack of investment in K&M? Where are the young minds going to work? In the fields?u HAVE to have an agreement that works for everybody, no matter the bitter pill taste! It is the only way... Both side don't get what they want, but save face! How? Let's leave that to the wise, hopefully!
Illinois? Send didn't declare independence, not sure you're point!

Mr Dadic, with this comments it seems wants to run for president too. You don't to be so dramatic about it.

Good luck.

To all the Albanian posters claiming Albanians make up over 40% of the population of Macedonia, please note that in the last election (last month) Albanians only won 20 seats out of 120, so at best Albanian only make up (20/120 =) 16% of the Macedonian population. If this was not the case then why are all the Albanian Politian’s only demanding more language rights in Macedonia and not a redistribution of electoral boundaries to better represent the Albanian population? If you dispute this then support a new census for February 2017.

To all the HROGians, if Greece(hrog) recognizes Kosovo, then Serbia will simply recognize Northern Cyprus (turkey) in response. So I seriously doubt there will be any changes to the fakeHellasian position on Kosovo.

(Based on the book of Ptolemeus I Soter, Alexander’s friend).
(Macedonia is not Greece)


It's too late now but tomorrow I'll supply you with the proof that Herodotus and Ptolemeus wrote about things that happened in 16-17 centuries.

"«Александр, царь царем и над цари бичь Божий, презвитяжный рыцарь, всего света обладатель и всех, иж под солнцем, грозный повелитель, к покорным же мне милосердый пощадитель, к непокорным же яростный меч, страх всего света, честнейший над честнейшими, в далекоразстоятельном и незнаемом крае вашем от нашего величества честь и мир и милость вам и по вас храбросердому народу словенскому, зацнейшему колену русскому великим князем и владцом от моря Варяжского и до моря Хвалимского, велебным и милым мне храбрственному Великосану, мудрому Асану, счастному Авехасану вечне поздравляю, яко самех вас лицем к лицу любезне целую, сердечно приемлю яко други по сердцу моему и нагреднейшии подданицы нашему величеству и сию милость даю вашему владычеству Аще каковый народ вселится в пределех вашего княжества от моря Варяжскаго и даже до моря Хвалимского, да будут вам и потомку вашему подлежимы вечной работе, во иныя ж пределы отнюдь да не вступит нога ваша. Сие достохвалное дело замкнено сим нашим листом и подписано нашею цысарскою высокодержавною правицею и за природным нашим госу- дарьским златокованным гербом привешеным ... »

GROBAR : Are you on drugs? Open a history book. This is not a history magazine, this is a news site. The world knows who Alexander the Great and the rest of ancient Greeks were and the world knows that during Byzantine times the Greeks were Greeks. If you have inferiority complex, go see a therapist. And the people in old/southern Serbia, also called FYRoM, are not Macedonians, they are Slavs. Macedonians are the Greeks who live in the north region of Greece.

I WONDER IF GROBAR AND GRABAR ARE SAME AS THE RUSSIAN ГРОБОВЩИК ?

AND IT'S THE ONLY THING THAT I WOULD LIKE TO LEARN FROM YOU. BECAUSE PITY IS THE ONLY FEELING THAT I HAVE FOR YOU.

THANK YOU FOR ENRICHING THE B92 CONTENT ...

@rote

Are you on drugs? Open a history book. This is not a history magazine, this is a news site. The world knows who Alexander the Great and the rest of ancient Greeks were and the world knows that during Byzantine times the Greeks were Greeks. If you have inferiority complex, go see a therapist. And the people in old/southern Serbia, also called FYRoM, are not Macedonians, they are Slavs. Macedonians are the Greeks who live in the north region of Greece.

Keep humiliating yourself with history questions that even a 10 year old Serb can answer. And you are stupid enough to believe that you actually ask smart questions. Jesus. If a person told you that Russians are Japanese, would you have a serious discussion with them? That's what you expect us to do here. Macedonia is a region in Greece. The people who live in FYRoM are Slavs and not Macedonians.

Alexander the Great's words: "I thank the gods to have been born Greek". Ancient historian Arrian, in his book Anabasis of Alexander (Based on the book of Ptolemeus I Soter, Alexander’s friend).

@rote

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but Orbini was not a historian. He was educated, but he did not study History. I suggest you read the books of real historians, otherwise you only humiliate yourself. Alexander the Great and all the rest of Macedonians were Greeks.

Stop abusing the history of Greece or at least stop doing that in a Serbian site.

Skenderbeu

Something tells me that attracting Turkey to the process would be fruitful. It will neutralize NATO states and remove the fears of the Whites. And it will increase the ratings of Erdogan of course.

By the way ERDOGAN means FALKON in Turkish. It was the most important bird in the Great Porta because Sokol was the coat of arms of the Rurikovici. Now have a better look at the word ERDO GAN = SOKOL KHAN ... and so is FAL KON ... One last thing is that Erdogan is a pure Georgian whose parents flew from Batumi in 1919 ...

@ Watcher Only Prishtina & Beograd can solve their issues and find an agreement and Im gonna retire now near my old good wife as I wrote too much today and Im not used to it! All best Watcher.

Makedonec -

Go ask someone from Tetovo that's born before 1940 if they can tell you anything indepth aboout Macedonian history. Then go to Greece and ask a Greek of the same age to tell you about Macedonian history. The one's in Tetovo will not know anything other then.....maybe Aleksandar Makedonski. Why is that you suppose? Because their forefathers didn't pass down stories for a reason. That reason is they had no attachment to that history. While I will agree that ancient Maks were different than Greeks to an extend, they were still a Greek people in a separate state. A good example would be Montenegro and Serbia. Go ask an Albanian about Albanian history. The only history in Vardar is that of it's current borders (which is new, so it doesn't go back too far), or it's a history to the locality ie Tetovo and it's surrounding villages. Again, ancient Macedonian knowledge/history was dead with our greatgrandparents and/or grandparents. Tetovo was part of dardania (i believe), but certainly Skopje was apart of Dardania. So if anything, aren't you Dardanian then? Sure, borders changed many many times Macedonian history did not exist in our area. It is very embarrassing to erect monuments in Skopje that do not represent the areas true history. They turned it into a Greek city with sadly no ancient Macedonian artifacts (unless you go to Bitola/Ohrid). Sad sad...

Ignorant Visko:

Kosova has 113 recognitions will many more to come.
This figure constitutes the majority of the world.

Serbia will recognize the Albanian half of "Macedonia" out of spite and Greek will follow.

You indeed have identity issues ( Serb or "Macedonian")

Typical of your fake country....

Don't worry if CzechoslovakIA can do it .....so can we.

Evil is in Serb hearts just ask all your victims in Slovenia,Croatia,Bosnia and Kosova.

Azir -

i said there were 4 million people already living on the Balkans when only 100,000 Slavs came there in the 5/6th centuries. I did not say there were Serbs then in the balkans. There were indigenous peoples (vlachs/illyrians) that were assimilated by the incoming Serbs in Dalmatia/Bosnia/Montenegro.

No, I am a MacedonianSerb. My family has always considered itself Serbs of the south, that celebrate Slava, has roots out of Kosovo, is pro a greater Serbia (to regain its true borders) and we speak a transitional dialect that is neither proper Macedonian (of today) or Serbian, but is a subdialect of the Torlak dialect of Serbia. A speech similar to Vranje/Leskovac/Eastern Kosovo.

Everything else you mentioned was too immature to reply

MACEDODONIA WAS AND IS MACEDONIA

"Мы, Александр, сын верховного Бога Юпитера на небе и Филиппа, короля Македонского на земле, Повелитель мира от восхода до захода Солнца и от полудня до полуночи, покоритель Мидийского и Персидского королевства, Греческих, Сирийских, Вавилонских и других. Просвещенному роду славянскому и его языку милость, мир, уважение и приветствие от нас и от наших преемников в управлении миром после нас. Так как вы всегда были с нами, в верности искренни, в бою надежны и храбры и всегда безустанные были, мы жалуем и свободно даем вам навечно все земли от полуночного моря великого Ледовитого океана до Итальянского скалистого южного моря, дабы в этих землях никто не смел поселиться или обосноваться, но только род ваш, и если бы кто-нибудь из посторонних был здесь обнаружен, то станет вашим крепостным или прислужником со своим потомством навеки".

read also Mavro Orbini ___ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mavro_Orbini

... and tell us that Alexandar wasn't a Slav !

Dacic, the Macedonian issue has been known to Serbia since 1992. And no, you were not fools. You were sneaky. The only fool here is Greece. Having said that, we don't want your support and "friendship", we already have plenty of "friends" like you. The only thing you deserve is Greece's recognition of Kosovo. Cause that's the only way people like you will respect Greece.

@ Skenderbeu1444 - Fair enough. That's two of us! All I'm sure of is that the Kosovo question can ONLY be solved when Pristina & Beograd agree on an agreement. This agreement will most likely be bitter to both sides, but will be a necessary pill to swallow in order to keep future blood from being spilt. Let's hope wise men from both nationalities can come together.
All the best!

Watcher: You claim Kosova issue is not " solved".

USA,NATO,EU ,Kosovars and 113 nations of the world agree that it is.

Kosova and Illinois both have Serb enclaves but Belgrade demands never heard of rights that Even America would never give you .

And Illinois has many more Serbs...

Kosovar-Serbs need to accept reality or hire themselves movers .

Vasko:

First, I’m on a Serbian website commenting on something a Serbian politician said about the Macedonian name issue, which is relevant as to why I’m here. As to why you’re here espousing the Serbianess of Macedonians, I don’t know. Second, my father was born in Vratnica, as were several of his ancestors. Why he, his relatives and his ancestors would be “hardcore Macedonians” and not Serbs may puzzle someone who has a skewed, fairytale notion of the supposed Serbianess of Vratnica, but it’s true. And his grandpa’s last name in the US ended in “-in” not in –ic. This is what the US records say – they don’t lie. Oh, and he came here with someone else from Vratnica whose last name ended in -off. So sorry to spoil your fantasy about Serbian surnames from Vratnica. Still, your understanding of history in the region is confused, because most people from Shar region under the Ottomans didn’t have last names at all until the turn of the 20th century. Finally, if you do some research, you will see that names like Naum and other “Macedonian” names were given out in Vratnica and Beloviste. You just have to not take everything dedo Chetnik and the priests of Troy's St. Petka Vratnica church as literal truth.

@ Rote I think there is only one reason for which you'll find many Albanians with simpathy for Russia and we always distinguish you from other Slavs. As Rama said in a recent interview there has never been an antialbanian feeling through the Russians. Of course you are all Slavs and we are not jelaous for your love for Serbs. We only wish they had no prejudices for us as well and you are helping us in achieving this. Now of course Albanians have their defects and we blackmail people etc etc but there is one defect we dont have: we never forget the friends who stay aside us in tough times. Im not asking you to change side but just to read and listen to our voice and our reasons some times.

To the Russian uneducated ignorant:

Reall, ape? What does Thessaloniki mean in your language, you little ape? In Greek, Thessalon means "of Thessalians". Thessalians are the Greeks who live in Thessaly, a region in central Greece. What does Niki mean in your language? In Greek, it means victory. So Thessaloniki = Victory of Thessalians.
Philip II, father of Alexander the Great and father of Thessaloniki named his daughter Victory of Thessalians, because she was born on the day Thessalians had a significant military victory in ancient Ferre. Got it, idiot? OPEN A BOOK IN LINGUSTICS, APE.
(Macedonia is not Greece, 3 January 2017 19:55)

The craddle of the civilization you say?
Now which of is an ape ?

A stunning exhibition celebrating 5,000 years of Greek culture. Opened June 1. National Geographic Museum (with ancient artifacts from Greek museums) [link]
(Macedonia is not Greece, 3 January 2017 20:04)

usually i am pacient enough to watch such tales for 5-10 minutes only and we have plenty of them in the russian tv. read something before you start you unequal war against rote

http://chronologia.org/en/index.html
http://chronologia.org/en/how_it_was/index.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbQMplPvA7k&list=PLQqYFITJNSJlzUpvNnUcFGRYMCUK5IqBq

@ Watcher - Watch the first 20 min of this documentary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecEK6llcucA see how Purin dealt with the problem of Chechenya and Dagestan. Min 15:21 Putin addresses his men going to solve things in those regions: "we have to act in a very carefully way, in a way that we wouldnt cause damage to the civilians because they are besides the armed militants and bandits there are also women, children, elderly. There are veterans of the Great Patriotic War there too, by the way" said Putin. There was outside help in Dagestan as well because there will always be some sort of outside help for some inside cause everywhere but you didnt have a leader who could talk like this to your people. Nobody reminded Serbs that they were fighting against people who have suffered with them in concentration camps, people who had fought with them as partizans. Kosovars didnt raise when every state in Yugoslavia arose in 1991 against you. Kosovars waited until 1998 hoping that they could avoided war. Respect to good people in Belgrade who have no problems with Albanians. I also can post here a video of a Serb guy who was in Albania for New Year Eve and you could see that there is no hatred in our hearts for other nations. But you better see that video on Putin. And hey, Albanians are stubborn as mules too and I don't wish the end to Serbs. I just want Albanians to be respected and honored like any other nation in the Balkans.

ГРАМОТА Александра Фїлїпповiча Македонского О передаче земель на вечные времена Благороднымъ Славянамъ въ управление (владычество)

http://makedonskij-ru.livejournal.com/32933.html
https://cont.ws/post/362830
http://texts.news/drevnyaya-rus/poslanie-aleksandra-tsarya-42363.html

МАКЕДОНЦЫ ЭТО МАКЕ-ДОНЦЫ, ЛЮДИ С ДОНА !

Vosko you make no sense:

You claim there were 4 million Serbs in the Balkan 1,600 years ago but today there are only 6 million.

Where did you get your figures from?
Your therapist?

The infamous Dr. KARADZIC inspired sick minded "brother" Serb into an orgy of Genocide,War Crimes and Crimes against Humanity.

Where was your "belief " in God then ....hypocrite!

Saint ( MOTHER) Teresa will see it that vermin serb souls go down to eternal Hell where Milosevic is the Devils right hand man .

You are not religious based on your action during the 1990's.

Makedonec -

There were some hypocritical things in your reply. We are going to disagree on some things so it's baseless to continue the back and forth here. I will say that our area back home was fairly none ethnic affiliated up until the early 19th century. Most people there fought for Serbdom and not Macedonia. You're definitely not from Vratnica nor Beloviste, as we all had 'ic' last names during Turkish times (pre Balkan wars). No one in those villages were giving out names 100+ yrs ago; Makedonac, Naum, Kiril etc. Instead, I know you've heard of the last name 'Srbinovski', obviously from the first name Srbin. Even though these folks had a village mindset, they were certain to refer to themselves as Serbs. My roots from 3 sides of my grandparents run out of Kosovo and Montenegro (and that's not generally speaking, but knowing the village names/yrs/family tree). I know in Vratnica, marrying outside the village wasn't a general rule. Men did for the most part marry within the village or at the very least villages 'next door'. Just as I'm a Serb living outside the motherland, you're a Macedonian living outside her natural borders (to your point about my Kosovo lineage being watered down due to living in today's Macedonia.....more so true about you). You stating move on is somewhat hypocritical...don't you think? Aren't you the Mak that came to a Serbian website to reply to a forum commentary....hmmm...

Vosko:I agree with you in that you have every right to worship baby killers and Genocidal vermin because that is a reflection of your characteristic trait...
Uncivilized jungle mentality.

Slavs you agree never originated from the Balkan region there for you can never be Indigenous as we are.

I supported and continue to support the Freedom Fighters UCK/KLA/NATO Alliance in destroying Slav Terrorism.

The Hague is over flowing with convicted Serb War Criminals.

And some "Macedonians" too...

"Macedonia's" days are numbered.

Injustice is not indefinite.

We will inevitably overcome this evil Occupation and unite with our brothers and sister in Illyria.

Serbia gets awarded RS and Community Of Baby killers in Kosova then what's good for the goose is good for the gander....

Your share and what you do with it is of no concern to us.

Serbia will recognize the reality a d out of traditional spite recognize our independence from you.

And you thought they only disliked you ....they HATE you!

Azir -

You're completely immature, and while this forum is open to all peoples, I truly don't know why you troll on a Serbian forum. Obviously you feel insecure and threatened because Kosovo is not recognized, so you have to project your anger. I get it but maybe you should seek a therapist for that issue.

My comments here are reflected towards brothers and sisters (which you are not), but at the end we are Serbs and have disagreements.

To your surprise, majority of Serbs are indigenous to the Balkans. Slavs that came in the 5th and 6th centuries only amounted to 100,000; whereas, there were already 4million people leaving across the entire Balkan peninsula.

I do not wish war and death onto anyone in the Balkans. These lands will continue to exist while we all pass away one day. I do on the contrary hope that albanians will grow up/mature and turn to Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior!!! Peace to you Azir, may your hatred be replaced by the love of Christ. Time to kick the devil out of the albanian mindset.

Vasko, Part II:

Fourth, I’m not jealous – you must be so self-absorbed, just like a typical Srboman from the area, who thinks that everyone and everything revolves around him and being Serbian. Sorry. Not the case.

Fifth, go ahead. Be proud that you have some roots from Kosovo. But understand that you have more roots from Macedonia than Kosovo. Show me to the contrary. The way marriage worked in Macedonia is that the men married women from outside the village. Unless you’re claiming that all these women came from outside of Macedonia (Kosovo), you don’t have as much “Kosovo” lineage as you think. Or just because your great-great-great-great-great-grandpa's dog took a journey into Kosovo, doesn't make you Serb.

I have less respect for you knowing that you idolize Arkan, Mladic and the crazies that go with them. The mad-men of the Balkans. Class acts.

You came on this board disrespecting the Macedonian identity, while claiming you’re Macedonian and Serb and Slav and non-Slav all at the same time. Really, good for you. Be who you want. But Macedonians don’t try to prove that their neighbors aren’t who they say they are, but Bulgars, Albanians, Greeks and Serbs all love to show how much they know about who the Macedonians are and aren’t. We only do it when you guys go on rants about how glorious you used to be and then start talking about Macedonians really being this or that. Grow up. Move on.

To the Russian called rote:
"The Greeks: Agamemnon to Alexander the Great"
A stunning exhibition celebrating 5,000 years of Greek culture. Opened June 1. National Geographic Museum (with ancient artifacts from Greek museums) http://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/news/priceless-ancient-treasures-leave-greece-for-first-time

Skanderbeu : Why you should confront Albanians openly ...

If you mean ROTE but not RUSSIA I'll say that when it comes to history issues I don't care which of the sides I take. Just because I seek for the truth the way that I can. And if you follow the voting most often both Serbs and the Shqipars are united against rote. Both sides feel comfortable with the tales they had been fed up. You don't have to write new songs instead those about Obilic or rename the street where Vucic goes to work. Same with the Whites whom the Oldenburgs should have supplied with a Greek story. Of course my sympathy is on the Serbian side. Not only because I feel a piece of the Russian spirit in them but because they were treated unjust last 25 years while justice is something special in the Russian mentallity. Guess you don't have to be afraid of Russia to come to the peninsula because of that special mentallity of ours. Only you will have to change your blackmail diplomacy for a compromise one. Best if all the elites are replaced in the region to let the fresh air in.

6) If I am start to be serious? Go repeat grammar school, then high school, educate yourself little ape and then dare to speak to a Greek.
(Greece is Macedonia, 3 January 2017 18:59)


СЧИТАЙ, ЧТО ТЫ ПРИЕХАЛ !

1/ On the old maps there was only one place named Greece and it was the Crete Island. All other maps where you will find this word were fabricated in 17-19 centuries.

2/ Greeks were a caste of priests in the Byzantine and the Great Horde. Christianity was called Greek Belief and it was cult of Dionisius before Christ. So people of Greek belief were called Greeks regardless of their origin. At least there are documents that in Crimea by marrying a Greek Muslims were becoming Greeks in 15 century.

3/ Jesus Christ is the Greek for Prophet Chrussified. His lifetime name is never mentioned though his father Isaak I Komnin (Bible Joseph) most likely was ethnical Greek. His mother Maria Galitskaya was a princess of the Vladimir-Suzdal fem of the Byzantine. They married in early 1152 in Yaroslavl region and in autumn they went to Jerusalem-Troy-Tsar Grad to deliver a child in the Porphirious Hall but on their way to Rome Maria has delivered a boy on dec. 25 who by birth was a Sevastocratos. But Emperor Manuil II Angel had a son of his own so he ordered to find the boy whose name was Andronicus I Komnin but who was known as Andrey Bogoliubsky in Russia (Egypt) where he spent most of his life ...

my compliments may end if you do not give direct responds!

Vask Part I:

First, you’re right. My great-great-grandfather didn’t have a ski. His last name ended in an –in. My other great-grandfather ended in –off. This was the US Census before 1913. And they both called themselves Macedonian.

Second, I never said there were no Serbs or Serb sympathizers (whatever that means). There are some Serbs in the area. However, there is a truth: before nationalism, people of Shar were primarily attached to their village and religion. However, many of them knew that Macedonia was their fatherland. Then the Serbian and Bulgarian churches came into play; then the Chetnik bands sponsored by the Serbian state; and then the forced conversions into Serbian…the Serbian army would go from village-to-village in Polog beating Macedonians until they declared they were Serbs.

Third, I could care less about Alexander the Great and Phillip. Only the Greeks are so insecure to need to dig into ancient history to justify who they are and who others aren’t. (Yet, they never question the multi-ethnic origins of themselves). The matter of the fact is that: a) Shar Planina was absorbed into the Macedonian Kingdom; b) it changed hands several times; and c) today they identify as Macedonians. Why the Macedonians are forced to defend themselves and the name they give themselves based on 2500 year old history when Americans, French, English, Greeks, Serbs, etc. are not is beyond me.

@ Skenderbeu1444 - I respect your opinion for the most part, but "our END"?
Many people have tried, including bandit gang of 27 nations called NATO...guess what? We"re still here! And always will be!
With that said, Beograd has many Albanians in it, no problems. My true opinion there was not a Srb-Alb issue until the Kosovo issue came came up! Milosevic reacted to provacations , definantly overly strong, but I think he knew that outside powers were egging the Albanians on! Either way, I think the real heartburn with Srbs was that the Albs used that situation to chop off 15% of their country off. If other punitive measures were taken, I think everyone could have lived with it, but the Albs, with outside help, saw the opportunity of a lifetime and took it... Can't blame them except you've run into Srbs, who are stubborn as mules!
Can't argue too much with u on your Macedonian viewpoint...

Part 2 to Sar Planinac:

Claiming something like that would mean that when Vardar became apart of the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes, that everyone who lived there were Serbs.

Don't be like our typical hater Tetovcani. You got jealous that someone from your area came on this board to make a point, and you tried shooting it down due to typical jealousy. You're better than that. While I'm proud of my families linage from Kosovo, I can tell you Slavs from Macedonia are one of the most jealous type of people that dabble in black magic to wish their neighbors cattle to die.

PS - Your greatgrandfather NEVER had an 'ski' ending 100yrs ago and prior.

Helene : Thessaloniki got it's name from the sister of Alexander the Great which her name was Thessaloniki!!! Really, you man who wrotte this you must be from FYROM because those guys are change the history or if you dont then you have been born in a wrong place.

As far as I remember you live in Thessaloniki so you must know that greater part of the city was composed of the Slavs in the mediaeval times. Check yourself coz you can be a Macedonian or a Rus as I am. Read the two messages of St. Paul to the Thessalonikians. Unfortunately I have Russian name of the messages. There's some differencefor the Greek letter "Fitna" sounds "F" here so it's "Fesaloniki"


1-е ПОСЛАНИЕ ПАВЛА К ФЕССАЛОНИКИЙЦАМ: (1303)-1-10; (1304)-2-20; (1305)-3-13; (1306)-4-18; (1307)-5-28.

2-е ПОСЛАНИЕ ПАВЛА К ФЕССАЛОНИКИЙЦАМ: (1308)-1-12; (1309)-2-17; (1310)-3-18.

Anyway don't be panic as I see no Hellenophobes here. The history we are told is so sophisticated that each one has an idea-fix of his own. But if we are reasonable we can make progress. Greeks played a significant role in the history but the Greek state has first appeared in early 19th century. That's what I can prove.

To Azir -

I have every right to have been a supporter of Arkan and other nationalists. They were no angels by no means, but they did stand to protect Serbs in a time when others would not. Whether we're from Macedonia or elsewhere, at the end we are brothers with Serbians and Serbs, but we can still have our differences.

You or any other albanian should not create such double standards when its folk like yourself who supported the dysfunctional KLA.....a ruthless drug and organ wholesaler, who needed more than a dozen countries to come to its rescue.

I am not against your people having rights in MK, and you know very well you guys have better rights than us there!!! What you guys really want is to federalize the country and then break it off 10yrs after that, so spare me the innocent bs you're writing. Sadly, that is not going to happen now with Trump and Putin in your way.....good luck

Attention War Criminal loving Vosko:

You are upset cause Serbs view you as second class citizen but what your regime in "Macedonia "does to its indigenous Albanian population is ok with you....

Hypocrite is the nicest word to describe you.

You foolishly claim to be a "native Slav in Monkeydonia even before 6/7 Century Slavic mass invasion into the Balkans...

You support Arkan,Karadzic,Mladic and other Genocidal killers but want fair treatment for yourself from War Crimes Capital of the World Belgraders.
Real Macedonians were never slavs.
Understand that much?

You are ethnic Bulgarian rejects stealing Greek identity and history and illegally occuping indigenous Albanian lands.

That's why serbs hate you....

Fake identity
Fake name
Fake history
Fake ethnicity

From the Serb-hater icj: "Of course, dear, of course. Macedonia cannot remain viable without Serbia's help. Croatia is at Serbia's mercy. Bosnia & Hercegovina the same. Montenegro cannot live without Serbia. And, of course, Kosovo would not exist without Serbia's magnanimity. It would be hard to find a country that can survive without Serbia's permission. I hope you feel better now in the knowledge that Serbia is the master of the universe lol"

Wow! That's quite a rant icj, I must have hit a nerve with you. Again, you paint with a broad brush. This is another example of your hatred of everything and anything Serbian clouding your ability to discuss topics related to the Balkans intelligently.

Please put your hatred aside and stick to the subject when addressing comments toward me in the future, ok? I know that's a tall task for a Serb-hater like you.

To my brother Sar Planinac.....didn't mean to touch a nerve there...

I think my quick post was fairly balanced, but as you already know many and many old timers in my village of Vratnica and the surrounding villages fought for that King as volunteers. An man named Stojan from the village of Dobroste, carried the King in Albania and inspired him to to quit the war. So spare me your incorrect facts about there not being any Serbs or Serb sympathizers in Northern part of MK! I can go on and on and on..... Also, its a bunch of bs that anyone claimed Macedonian identity in a census pre WW2!! The only census pre WWI was done by the Turks and a vast majority selected Bulgarian with about 13,000 claiming Serbian (and those were all from Norther MK ie; Skopska Crna Gora, Kumanovo, Tetovo etc). The first Serbian school was opened in 1842 in Siricino; and that was at the request of the inhabitants of Polog. It was not forced!!!

You are Macedonian of today, but are you an original Macedonian.....you nor any of us can be certain of that. Don't forget, when Alexsander the greats father conquered Paeonia, he was met with fierce resistance from them and other illyrians (namely the dardanians). Historical macedonia has nothing to do with Sar Planina, and you're intelligent enough to know that! Just because it was absorbed into the Macedonian Kingdom did not mean those illyrian/aromanian tribes were macedonian.

Macedonia is Greece: If you want allies, behave as allies. Now your ally is Skopje, not Greece. And it's no one else's fault this time.

I see no active Serbs here. Rote is a Russian so if you have anything to say about my 5 questions about Greece please do it. Otherwise leave the Macedonians alone or I'll put new questions about Greece.

Dacic, you are 20 years late, man. You and the whole Serbian nation, the "brothers" of Greeks, the snakes in the Greek chest, as we say in Thessaloniki, the capital city of Macedonia in northern HELLAS.
As for your precious Kosovo dear Serbs, brothers of our Slavic enemies, we couldn't care less. If you want allies, behave as allies. Now your ally is Skopje, not Greece. And it's no one else's fault this time.

Look Rote, Ivo and others here have revealed that they have never understood the real roots of the problems in the Balkans which is in my opinion the deep and pathological hatred Slavs have for those who are not Slavs first off Albanians.They think it was just a matter of wrong procedure on the Serbs side. Why you should confront Albanians openly, why you should take away Kosovo autonomy, when you can oblige them to leave Kosovo, Montenegro and Macedonia because of the poverty while saying two words about the multiethnic society and human rights and other bullshit. Fact is that Albanian villages in Montenegro are being abandoned by Albanians because of Gjukanovic's economic miracle. Fact is that Albanians in Macedonia are constantly labelled as terrorists and backward people and they are also leaving for Europe. Fact is that more and more Macedonians are taking Bulgarian citizenship and fleeing to Bulgaria. I understand you don't want Macedonia to break up nor do Albanians or Serbs but we cant stay here and sing to the brotherhood in the Balkans while these descendants of Alexander (Albanian from his mother side) are making fun of us. It was enough for Dacic to make a simple statement and Macedonians finally revealed their true nature of racist and two faced people.

Skanderbeu : Macedonians and Montenegrins have cornered themselves

Yes it's so but both were and are colonies that nad no choice. So they are not to be blamed only but they need compassion. During the Russian-Ottoman war of 1787 and later during the Napoleon Wars European elites faced a severe problem as all the Balkan Slavs still spoke Russian. Most worried were the Habsburgs and Prussia where Slavic popuation dominaed. So the Oldenburgs who ruled Europe decided to change all the Slavic languages. Most of all they've changed Serbian (Croatian) and Slovenian by introducing Latin alphabet. Bulgarians resisted and they had no traitors like Vuk Karadjic or Grushevski in Ukraine so Bulgarian (Madedonian) is the closest to the Russian. Romanovs were of the Oldenburgs so they reformed the Russian too. But it wasn't enough so the new history was written for the Balkan peoples who had all been Whites in 14-17 centuries. For 400 years inside the Porta (P-Orda) people here had no ethnical, religious or any other conflicts. And they spoke the same language as their Russian brothers but in 19th century everything was changed. Roots of the current conflicts begin there. During the Balkan wars problems started to come out and Russia had to spoil relations with Bulgaria. Everybody was granted a small piece of glory. Those were Chavdars in Bulgaria, Chetniks in Serbia, Kings of Croatia, Skanderbeu ect. The biggest pie was Granted to the Greeks !

To the Russian uneducated ignorant:

Reall, ape? What does Thessaloniki mean in your language, you little ape? In Greek, Thessalon means "of Thessalians". Thessalians are the Greeks who live in Thessaly, a region in central Greece. What does Niki mean in your language? In Greek, it means victory. So Thessaloniki = Victory of Thessalians.
Philip II, father of Alexander the Great and father of Thessaloniki named his daughter Victory of Thessalians, because she was born on the day Thessalians had a significant military victory in ancient Ferre. Got it, idiot?

OPEN A BOOK IN LINGUSTICS, APE.

To the Russian ignorant called rote:
1) Are you stupid? Have you ever visited at least ONE museum in Greece? If yes, you would know that there are plenty of inscriptions in statues, relifs (search the term in Google, idiot) AND graves ONLY in Greek.
2) OPEN A BOOK, even a Russian one. The Greeks conquered so much land because they had the best Army. Alexander the Great, a GREEK, was a military phenomenon.
3) When you say "medieval" I assume you mean Byzantine times. We were speaking GREEK during Byzantines times, Byzantum was built on GREEK civilization and only a man with GREEK education could become emparor. That was the RULE. Regarding the Slavic language, WE GAVE THE SLAVIC ALPHABET to the Slavs. You and your Russian ancestors would still be apes without us.
4) ALL the Genetics say that Greeks are the offspring of ancient Greeks, including the most up to date research, conducted by Stanford University and University of Paova(2012).
5) No I am not aware of this person, but I'm sure the comics you read and call them "History" mention him. Greeks are Greeks. Get over it, Rushko.
6) If I am start to be serious? Go repeat grammar school, then high school, educate yourself little ape and then dare to speak to a Greek.

"What do we call a nation? – People who are of the same origin and who use the same words and who live and make friends of each other, who have the same customs and songs and entertainment are what we call a nation, and the place where that people lives is called the people's country. Thus the Macedonians also are a nation and the place which is theirs is called Macedonia." -- Georgi Pulevski, 1875

"Whoever wishes to work on attaching Macedonia towards Bulgaria, Greece or Serbia can be considered a good Bulgarian, Greek or Serb, but not a good Macedonia." -Goce Delchev

"I am Macedonian and the interests of my fatherland are: Russia and Austria-Hungary are not the enemies of Macedonia, but Bulgaria, Greece and Serbia."
-Krste Misirkov, 1903

“If someone today should ask the Macedonian Slav 'what are you?' he would be immediately be told: 'I am Bulgarian' and would call his language 'Bulgarian'.
(Stefan Verkovich, "Folk Songs of the Macedonian Bulgarian", Vol. 1, 1860)

“Encyclopedia of European Peoples”, 2006, p.507:
“The cultural identity of the people of the Former Yugoslav Republic of 'Macedonia' (FYROM) has been an issue of contention and confusion. From the start the new republic aroused antagonism in Greece, which objected to its use of the name 'Macedonia', a Greek word, since the people of the FYROM are ethnically and linguistically Slavic. Slavomacedonian nationalists of the FYROM regularly claim as part of their cultural identity architectural and artistic artifacts [and the history] of the classical Greek period and earlier.”

serbs, people that have problem and still don't know where they came from in the balkans, talking about fake macedonia, another country in identity crises hahaha typical slavs, trying to manipulate and still history from other countries

Macedonia is Greece: To the Russian uneducated ignorant ...

Let's discuss if any Greece had ever existed before 19th century? Then the issue of the Slavic Macedonia will be solved as a matter of fact. History of Greece and the history of the Greek are two different things you know so lets talk about it :

1/ Why nowhere there are no Greek graves or coins dated between 3th and 9th centuries?

2/ Why there's no evidence of the empire of Alexandar (mention the grammar!)? How could the Greeks occupy vast territories upto Russia, Pakistan and China and how could they control the supply routes?

3/ Why do the mediaeval Greek contain so many Slavic words and why are the "ancient Greek" and the current Greek are almost the same while the so called meadiaeval Greek must be closer to the current one?

4/ Why do the genetics say that the Greeks are a composed nation without a joint ancestor or a dominating happlogroup and why is there so much Slavic blood in you?

5/ Do you know that the Oldenburgs (from Старгород) who have created your history, flag, the monuments ect. have Russian roots?

If you start to be serious I'll put many more questions to open your eyes. Then we can be back to the issue. But be ready to answer why some of the Greek words (Poseidon) and names (Kartakuzin) sound so Slavic? I'll tell you what they mean and how they became Greek. By the way I love the Greeks despite you have stolen my history. Macedonians are part of it and so I challenge you!

Kuzman Shapkarev, considered an “ethnic Macedonian” in FYROM:
"But even stranger is the name 'Macedonians', which was imposed on us only 10 to 15 years ago by outsiders and not as something by our own intellectuals... Yet the people in Macedonia know nothing of that ancient name, reintroduced today with a cunning aim on the one hand and a stupid one on the other. They know the older word: 'Bugari', although mispronounced: they have even adopted it as peculiarly theirs, inapplicable to other Bulgarians. You can find more about this in the introduction to the booklets I am sending you. They call their own Macedono-Bulgarian dialect the 'Bugarski language', while the rest of the Bulgarian dialects they refer to as the 'Shopski language'."
(In a letter to Prof. Marin Drinov of May 25, 1888, Makedonski pregled, IX, 2, 1934, p. 55; the original letter is kept in the Marin Drinov Museum in Sofia, and it is available for examination and study)

Dimo Hadjidimov, considered a national hero in FYROM:
"This idea, nevertheless, remained a Bulgarian idea until it disappeared even among the Bulgarians. Neither the Greeks, nor the Turks, nor any other nationality in Macedonia accepted that slogan... The idea of autonomous Macedonia developed most significantly after the creation of the Internal Macedonian revolutionary Organization which was Bulgarian in respect of its members and proved to be well decided, of great military might and power of resistance. The leadership of the Macedonian Greeks could not rally under the banner of such an organization which would not, under any circumstances, serve Hellenism as a national ideal... In the face of Bulgaria, the Hellenic Kingdom and its agents in Macedonia saw a factor far more powerful and with a greater military prestige; this fact implied a negative treatment to the internal Bulgarian movement... Undoubtedly, since the Greeks of Macedonia, the second largest group following the Bulgarians, had a position like this vis-a-vis the idea of autonomy, the latter could hardly anticipate success..." (Back to the Autonomy, Sofia, 1919, http://www.promacedonia.org/mpr/documents/hadjidimov.html)

"Unlike the Slovene and Croatian identities, which existed independently for a long period before, the emergence of Socialist FYRoM's identity and language were themselves a product of federal Yugoslavia, and took shape only after 1944.”
(Zielonka, Jan; Pravda, Alex., “Democratic consolidation in Eastern Europe”, p.422, Oxford University Press, 2001)

@ Rote the fact that Macedonians and Montenegrins have cornered themselves by betraying Serbs doesn't mean that they have all of a sudden become Albanians' friends. This is old mentality in my opinion - the enemies of my enemies are my allies. It doesn't work with these snakes who in the morning declare themselves as more European than Juncker and in the evening declare that they are just obliged to live with Albanians but they rather not if it was possible. Now we are in the same position as Russia is toward millions of Russians who live in other neighboring states. Putin made it clear that Russia will always care for them and wont let them be oppressed just because they are Russians. Albania should do the same but if we raise our voice for their rights these snakes of our neighbors claim that we are seeking to create Great Albania. Let us see how Ivo limonata and the Macedonians will dance now that they can't even create a government without Albanians support.

Denko Maleski, professor at the University Sts. Cyril and Methodius in Skopje, FYROM (International Politics and Contemporary Political Systems) and former Minister of foreign affairs of the FYROM :
"The creation of the 'Macedonian' nation (FYROMians), for almost half of a century, was done in a condition of single-party dictatorship. In those times, there was no difference between science and ideology, so the 'Macedonian' historiography, unopposed by anybody, comfortably performed a selection of the historic material from which the 'Macedonian' identity was created.
There is nothing atypical here for the process of the creation of any modern nation, except when falsification from the type of substitution of the word 'Bulgarian' with the word 'Macedonian' were made. We reach towards some fictional ethnic purity which we seek in the depths of the history and we are angry at those which dare to call us Slavs and our language and culture Slavic!? We are angry when they name us what we - if we have to define ourselves in such categories - are, showing that we are people full with complexes which are ashamed for ourselves."
(Utrinski Vesnik newspaper, Skopje, October 16, 2006)

Archbishop Jovan VI of Ohrid, FYROM (http://orthodoxwiki.org/Jovan_VI_%28Vrani%C5%A1kovski%29_of_Ohrid): "Communists arrived and made a history. And we are living to this day, actually, with the forgery they imposed. Some people, normally, are investigating the issue. It's impossible that in the internet era everyone to be blind. However, most [people] unfortunately failed to notice that many 'facts', which are accepted as history, today in 'Macedonia', are forgeries." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73MEQAIWDvE

Two published research studies in Genetics (Oscar Lao et al 2008 and Novembre et al 2008) documenting the genetic relatedness of Europeans using autosomal single nucleotide polymorphisms confirmed Slav “Macedonians” clustered very closely to Bulgarians. (Novembre J., Johnson T., Bryc K., et al. [2008]. Genes mirror geography within Europe. Nature 456: 98-101, http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v456/n7218/full/nature07331.html)

The New York Times, July 10, 1946:
A "Federal Macedonia" has been projected as an integral part of Tito's plan for a federated Balkans [...] taking Greek [original] Macedonia for an outlet to the Aegean Sea through Salonica.

The New York Times, July 16, 1946:
During the occupation [...] a combined effort was made to wrest Macedonia from Greece [...] an effort that allegedly continues, although in altered form [...] The main conspirational activity in Macedonia today appears to be directed from Skopje.

The New York Times, July 26, 1946:
The possible creation of a “Macedonian” free state within Greece to amalgamate with Marshal Tito's Federated “Macedonia” State, with is capital in Skopje [...] would fulfill the Slavic objectives of re-uniting the... province of Macedonia under Slavic rule, giving access of the sea to Bulgaria and Yugoslavia.

The New York Times, August 19, 1946:
According to most reliable information, a secret meeting was held yesterday at Comi in southern Bulgaria [...] “to draw up plans for a general rising in Greek Macedonia, with the ultimate object of incorporating that region with Salonica in an autonomous Macedonia under Yugoslav hegemony.”

No one has time to keep repeating things for you... Just sit there and we'll get back to you when everything's figured out...sheesh!
(Watcher, 3 January 2017 01:34)

Of course, dear... Take your time, collect your thoughts, put your brain a bit to work (I know that's a demanding exercise for you that takes time) and hopefully you'll manage to write something that makes sense next time :)

I scrolled down in the comments and saw a guy writte about how Thessaloniki got its name and that it's Russian?!.. Thessaloniki got it's name from the sister of Alexander the Great which her name was Thessaloniki!!! Really, you man who wrotte this you must be from FYROM because those guys are change the history or if you dont then you have been born in a wrong place.
As for the article i never saw something in exchange from Serbs to Hellas(Greece) for our help.You were from the first countries that recognized them.So i want to ask now: what keeps Greece now to dont recognize Kosovo?Even though we know it's Serbian land, like you knew the name and the history of Macedonia were Hellenic but you recognized them...So how would you feel if Greece recognize Kosovo? I think you must not even say a word if Greece ever recognize it because we do not owe you anything and you are the ones that start to destroy this Hellenic and Serbian brotherhood by recognize FYRO"M"..

“Neither Bulgar nor Serb" said one such old woman…"I am Macedonian only
and I am sick of war.”

-National Geographic Magazine, 1917


“The inhabitants of Macedonia…call themselves Macedonians, and what they desire and what we ardently desire for them is an autonomy under European control.”

-Sister Augustine Bewicke, 1919

“There are also in Macedonia people who decline to be considered either Serbians or Bulgarians and who want to be simply Macedonians.”

-Baron Rosen, 1922

“Nine times out of then these people, despite being the subject of dispute by three adjoining countries– Serbia, Bulgaria and Greece– would reply in response to the question as to their nationality that they were Macedonians.”

-Edmont Bouchie de Belle, 1922

To the Russian ignorant called rote:

To the Russian ignorant, called rote:

4) Philip's II (father of Alexander the Great)speech to Amphictyonic League in Corinth :
“It is become necessary to go and meet the barbarians [Persians] whose ungovernable pride already affects universal empire, therefore we must submit to be slaves for ever or resolve on timely opposition. The question is not whether the Greeks are to have war or peace but whether they shall carry the war into the enemy’s country or receive it in their own? Nor does it behave us merely to revenge former injuries… Do we forget that when Greece was even in a divided state Agesilaus with an inconsiderable army gave law to the satraps of the Persian king? Do we forget the triumphant actions and the glorious retreat of the ten thousand? [Xenophon's Anabasis] Is it needful to recur to the jealousies, which Persia has constantly fomented in our country [Greece] to the animosities, which her intrigues have bred and nourished in order to arm Greek against Greek? Let us turn to the plains of Marathon! Is there anything wanting to inspire us with the highest expectations of success now that the whole force of this brave [Greek] nation can be exerted against a people enervated by luxury and depressed by [Persian] slavery?”
(Quintus Curtius Rufus, "Historiae Alexandri Magni", 1.8. 94-95)

"I have heard many, in a matter of fact not many but plenty educated people from Skopje, which out of somewhere believe that Alexander of Macedon was a Slav and that he is their progenitor. There are also people who believe in that but that is not a job for press conferences, but for universities, and if the universities don't help, then [it is a job] for doctors."
(Vuk Drašković, Serbian writer and politician, Nova Makedonija newspaper, Skopje, FYROM,13-7-1991)

Vasko,

My parents and my wife’s parents are from Shar Planina, with roots in Vratnica, Belovishte, Raotince, and Staro Selo. Also, from Prespa. I had a great-great grandfather and a great-grandfather both came to the United States before 1913 – before Macedonia was divided by her neighbors – and they identified as Macedonian in census records and WW1 draft records. One settled in with Macedonians in Ohio and another settled in with Macedonians in Granite City. Please spare me the lecture on who the northern Macedonians are and aren’t. My ancestors fought in Ilinden and WW2 not for Vardarija, an imposed name by King Alexander in the 1920s, but for Macedonia.

You don’t speak on behalf of Macedonians from Shar Planina – your words are actually quite misrepresentative. Even the old-timers in Shar region identify as Macedonians. The Serbian and Bulgarian churches did their damage in the latter half of the 19th century and early decades of the 20th century in the Shar region, but the Macedonian people woke up. They know who they are. The only CCCC you’ll see is graffiti by kids whose parents are pretend-Chetniks but whose grandparents were partizans. So ironic.

You can say you’re Serb – it doesn’t bother me. But don’t use you’re espoused personal view of Shar history to represent the actual facts and perceptions on the ground. The name is Macedonia – as evidenced by scores of western authors in the 1800s and early 1900s – and it has been throughout the centuries.

Serbians and Serbs, I've noticed you claim us as Serbs, but you can't stand how we speak. So what gives? When I call myself a Serb to other authentic Serbs, they still label me as a 'Macedonce', but if I say I'm 'Macedonian' they'll say.....on je nas Srbine. What gives??? Make up your minds or let us be!

No one wants to be treated as second class citizens. I know Serbs very well. Yes, very heroic, stubborn, spiteful but also the type that think they're better than everyone else. You can't expect Macedonians to live under Serbs but be treated openly as trash for the way they speak. There is a reason why we speak differently and that's because majority of us were there before Slavs and never fully accepted grammatically correct Slavic language. I am pro Arkan, Seselj, Mladic etc. Yes, I know Serbs got the short end of the stick and it pained me, but as someone from Macedonia, I can tell you I have never been accepted by Serbs as a Serb from Macedonia. Sumadija long ago created a sterotype of people from MK that they are cigani and backwards. While I'm a Macedonian Serb with a Slava, I will never support a Macedonia under Serbian rule.

Gotse Delchev, considered a national hero in FYROM:
“I have received all the letters sent by you and through you. Let us not allow the splits and splintering to frighten us. It is, indeed, a pity, but what can we do, since WE ARE BULGARIANS and all suffer from one common disease. ”
(January, 1st 1899, in a letter to Nikola Maleshevski, http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Letter_from_Gotse_Delchev_to_Nikola_Maleshevski_%281899%29)

To the Russian ignorant, called rote:

5) Alexander the Great's words, when addressing to the Athenians and Thebans (Thebans are the Greeks who live in Thebes, in central Greece, ignorant)
"Our enemies are Medes and Persians, men who for centuries have lived soft and luxurious lives; we of Macedon for generations past have been trained in the hard school of danger and war. Above all, we are free men, and they are slaves. There are Greek troops, to be sure, in Persian service — but how different is their cause from ours! They will be fighting for pay — and not much of at that; WE, ON THE CONTRARY, SHALL FIGHT FOR GREECE, AND OUR HEARTS WILL BE IN IT.
Ancient historian Arrian, in his book Anabasis Alexandri (Book II, 7).

6)"We must remember too that Philip and Alexander were Greeks, descended from Heracles, wished to be recognised as Greeks, as benefactors of the Greeks, even as Heracles had been."(Nicholas Hammond, British scholar and expert on Macedon, “Alexander the Great”, p.257)

7) "We know the ancient Macedonians were fundamentally Greeks. That is to say they were Greek speakers and ethnically they were Greeks."
Yale University, Prof. Kagan,“Introduction to Ancient Greek History, Philip, Demosthenes and the Fall of the Polis”, 2007.

Oh, the FM of FYROS is telling Macedonia that HROG is a brother to FYROS? Seems like a replay of the beginning of the 20th century. Just need the Bugars to chime in about how the Macedonians are really Bulgarians, and the Shqipteri to cry about how their rights have been violated since Macedonians aren't being forced to speak Albanian, and it'll be a true Balkan wet dream.

See, Macedonia is not as stupid as Serbia, because it knows that a policy of head-on conflict with the Albanians who make up 25% of the country will lead to the destruction of the state. Hence, despite not liking Albanians, Macedonia needs to find a way to accomodate for their wishes and integrate them, because they are also citizens.
(Ivo, 2 January 2017 23:33)

The "Makedonski" were fighting the Albanians , the only reason it did not spiral out of control is that the US told both the Albanians and Makedonski to accept the status quo, a fake state called FYROM.

Milosevic on the other hand did play the better hand and got a much better agreement, the problem is that the European community reversed UN resolution 1244. FYROM is at the mercy of the Albanians who surround them, they have no substantial army to defend themselves, so its only a matter of time when it explodes. You really think that "Macedonia" is going to hold together with the Albanians? Yugoslavia and Tito barely held it together by appeasing the Albanians with an autonomous state of Kosovo in Serbia and allowing the ethnic cleansing of Serbs in Albanian dominated areas.

@ Watcher Save them again and that will be your END. Answer to me Ivo the Macedonian Im still waiting to hear from a Macedonian what a multiethnic country means. Multiethnic 50 to 40 where we are the fifty in case you missed my logic.

To the ones who claim/suspect that Greece is about to recognize Kosovo and that Dacic is trying to prepare Serbs for that: No, Greece is not anywhere near in recognizing Kosovo, as such action would seriously jeopardize Greece's interests in Thrace (north-Eastern Greece, the Greek "Rashka"). But that's the only reason Greece does not recognize Kosovo. The "brotherhood"stage...well we've passed that a loong time ago, when you proved to us your "brotherhood". Now it's done. We know who you Serbs are and we are absolutely fine with your supporting FYRoM, as we expect nothing good from you ever.

To the Russian uneducated ignorant, called rote:

1) Alexander the Great's words:
"There are Greek troops, to be sure, in Persian service — but how different is their cause from ours! They will be fighting for pay — and not much of at that; we, on the contrary, shall fight for Greece, and our hearts will be in it."
(Alexander addressing his troops prior to the Battle of Issus, as quoted in Anabasis Alexandri by Roman historian Arrian, 2. 7.4.

2) Alexander the Great's words:
"Your ancestors came to MACEDONIA AND THE REST OF GREECE and did us great harm, though we had done them no prior injury. I have been appointed leader of the Greeks, and wanting to punish the Persians I have come to Asia, which I took from you."
(Alexander's letter to Persian king Darius in response to a truce plea, as quoted in "Anabasis Alexandri" by Roman historian Arrian, Book 2.14.4

3) Philip Ii (father of Alexander the Great)'s words, in his letter to the Council and People of Athens:
“Not content with this, you have shown your contempt for right and your hostility to me by actually sending an embassy to urge the king of Persia to declare war on me. This is the most amazing exploit of all; for, before the king reduced Egypt and Phoenicia, you passed a decree calling on ME to make common cause WITH THE REST OF THE GREEKS against him, in case he attempted to interfere with us.” (Demosthenes, “Philip's Letter to Athenians”, Speeches, 12.6.

FYROMians are decent people and do like Serbs for the mots part, but they are very confused and brainwashed. They have invented this history of themselves that they descend from Alexander the Great despite the fact thay Slavs were not on the Balkans during his time.

Someone said Serbia is not their friend because it doesnt recognize their church. Actually, no one does. Not Greece, not Russia, not Bulgaria. It is a sect not a church. All those churches built before communism are property of the Serbian Orthodox Church confiscated by this fake sect.

Someone also saod Greece has an embassy and voted for Albanian separatists at the UN. Both claims are untrue. But Greece has flirted with the idea because of the Serbian governments poor attitude toward Greece.

It was Greece as a member of NATO that stood by Serbia during the aggressoon. Greek humanitarian workers would go where we were being bombed the most to help out. Sure, some FYROMians are also sympathetic, but Serbia's government did Greece wrong with this name issue.

Serbia must stand with Hellas. Not just because the name and history of Macedonia is Greek, not just because of Kosovo-Metohija, but because Greece stood by Serbia when they were obligated by treaty to take part in aggression.

Hi, my folks are from Sar Planina, Macedonia. For the most part, the northern half of Macedonia in the past identified as Serbs. Today that part of Macedonia is pro Serb, but people identify as Macedonians. You have to understand, people born pre WWll never had education and quite honestly didn't know what Macedonia meant other than its a name. Now, there is a very small amount of Slavs in Macedonia (R1a haplogroup at 18%). Most of the population is of pre-slavic settlement (ie: E-V13, G, J haplogroups). There is another element of Slav settlement that's the I2a-North dinaric, but these Slavs came from Ukraine in the first wave of Slavs to the balkans. The Serbian haplogroup (i2a-South dinaric), came from central europe to Dalmatia/Bosnia areas, and not Macedonia. So, on one hand yes we're not Macedonians by language but the vast majority are rooted from illyrian tribes (dardanians, paeonians), thracians, aromanians/vlachs and macedonians.

Macedonia should have taken on a name such as 'Paeonia' or 'Vardarija'. Much more acceptable than Macedonia, as 1. its geographically incorrect and 2. no one speaks Macedonian.

So while I do consider myself a Serb from Sar Planina, I realize that us from Macedonia are not authentic Serbs like one's from Dalmatia, Hercegovina, Lika etc etc. We are old settlers either from pre-slavic period or Slavs that came from the direction of Ukraine/Moldova areas.

Too late for that, Mr. Dacic. it's been 21 years since you stabbed us in the back and have been supportive to a nation that wants a greater "Macedonia", just like Albanians want a greater Albania. Too late, Mr. Dacic. Now except for the Greek hooligans, no one considers you friends anymore. And we sure won't in the future.
Keep supporting FYROM. You deserve each other.

@ Azir - Relax Azir, LOL...Zbuze is Albanian too, just trying to muddy the waters...LOL

Zbuze : Sebs are not native to this wholy land and they should leave peacefully ... Serbia is land with no history

Don't forget that the Macedonians are questioned today but not the Serbs. Seek for friends not for new enemies as any anti-Serbian move is a direct way to conflict with Russia.


Zoche : Macedonia does not need a recognition especially not from you.

If this the way you apologize for your treason of the Serbs then the Shqips will avenge you after they receive the command.


ned taylor : Sounds suspiciously like revenge to me.

Looks like nobody had instructed him what a FM can afford and what not. I had never expected such an idiotic wave of statements from Dacic. There must be something that we don't know.


Skenderbeu: Macedonians and Montenegrins have both cornered themselves by betraying Serbs ... why should Dacic make this scandal now that the things run so good for Serbia?


Exactly! Yet Macedonia is a Slavic name - read the links that I gave here.


Watcher: All our friends stood by ... ( including Russia) as the strongest military alliance ... rained down death

ПОБОЙСЯ БОГА - МЫ ИСПОРТИЛИ ОТНОШЕНИЯ С АМЕРИКОЙ И ЕВРОПОЙ ИЗ-ЗА СЕРБИИ !


Politics : Skopje (tsar Dussan’s ancient capital)

Сербский (Siabri of Rus) Сте́фан (Stepan) У́рош (Rus) IV Ду́шан (Soul) Неманич (of Neman River) was Russian governor of the Балкан (White Khan) region including Рашка (Little Rus) - find anything non-Russian here !

Zbuze:"Macedonians" are as "native" to the Balkans as Serbs are...

All Slaves invaded during the 6/7 Century...

Shqiptares are INDIGENOUS.

Get your history facts correct.

Serbia is land with no history

@ Skenderbeu 1444 - Beograd will save the Macedonians...sigh, we're idiots like that, no doubt about it!

Should Macedonia recognise Europe?Ah we forgot the history is written.Serbia just give me a break.I am native Macedonian and I always cosider Serbs as agreessors.Sebs are not native to this wholy land and they should leave peacefully

Dacic constructive way to solve a problems is driven by agenda of military force.If you in doubt of recognising your mother you need medical help.Macedonia does not need a recognition especially not from you.

If Serbian fm wants to solve problems ,why not return the weapons back to Russia.He obviosly enjoined from bihind the Greek stile.Welcome to democratic Europe You Serbian Servant.

So, Dacic says Serbia's policy will be reciprocity not revenge, but in the last sentence states that he cannot wait for an important issue for Macedonia or Montenegro to crop up at an international organisation so that they can see what Serbia's stance is. Sounds suspiciously like revenge to me. Surely each issue will be judged on its merits before Ivica takes a stand ;-)

“They'll respect you only as much as you're strong and ready to stand up for yourself. I can't wait for some issue that is important to Macedonia, to Montenegro, to crop up in international organizations. Then we'll see what stance Serbia will take," Dacic said.”

After reading Dacic comment my opinion on the current FM is he is a second rate politician more suited to local village politics then international affairs. If Mr Dacic is any representation as to the caliber of the former politicians from the ‘pre 1990’s’ Yugoslavia then no wonder Yugoslavia was so easily overwhelmed by nationalism and ultimately destroyed.

Read the bible Mr Dacic, start with Luke6:27 “Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.. Do to others as you would have them do to you. “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that.

Well well well, so Ivo despite not liking Albanians you can't go against the will of 25 % of your population? Are you sure Albanians represent only 25 % of your population? Because we are sure they represent at least 50 % of your population and Albanians are still waiting for you to implement Ohri's agreement. That means Albanian as official language of Macedonia alongside the very Macedonian language. Do you have an idea how many macedonians have aplied for Bulgarian passport in these last months? Answer to me you smart Macedonian of my a*. You are cowards, Serbs compared to you are almost angels at least they have the courage to tell us in the face they hate us and to fight with us. Why don't you like Albanians you Macedonian snakes? So you think that it was just Serbs' way of solving the issue that was wrong, other than that it was ok to hate Albanians because nobody in the region likes Albanians. So you prostitutes think you have discovered the soft way to keep Albanians calm and good to you despite treating them like the indians of your fake state. You don't like Albanians despite the fact that stupid Albania recognized you with your Greek name and we have always supported your fake state and your fake statues. Beware Macedonians that those days are long gone, mark these words Macedonians!!

@avni - good luck with that!
"Winds of change", avni, "winds of change" are upon us...

Comments like this keep Serbia and Serbians in the dark age. Giving a person such as this the platform, to talk such rubbish against the Republic of Macedonia, Croatia and Montenegro only portrays the Serbian people as backward and does not benefit anyone.

Serbia and Greece brothers .... lol. Orthodox logic, means Macedonia and Greece are brothers, as are Ukraine and Russia etc. You Serbs are Slavs, you have a greater brother called Macedonia. If you wanted to accept reality you'd recognise that trying to kill 2 million people in Kosovo does not help your case that it is Serbian land and you love it, and recognise that actually Greeks and Albanians are more brothers [by DNA, history, linguistics, ethnography] than you guys :P

@IVO - lol, you're a funny dude;) step out from your "occupiers" aprons and take on Beograd direct....doubt you'd make it very long!
This is NOT something I want or desire, but quit talking trash as you hide behind your "protectors"...
Time for talk, friend, time to talk!

Dear Minister Ivica Dacic,
Macedonia recognized Kosovo because it had too, every Macedonian government formed post 1991 has had to form a coalition with an Albanian minority party to stay in government over the past 25 years, so to keep the minority coalition partner happy the government had to recognize Kosovo (politics 101)

Now just for the record, Macedonia did NOT recognize Kosovo because:
1)Serbia stripped ‘ALL’ military equipment (including radar towers) from Macedonia in 1991, leaving Macedonia defenceless.
2)Serbia conspired with Greece between 1991 to 1995 to destabilise and partisan Macedonia between Greece/Serbia, i.e add Skopje (tsar Dussan’s ancient capital) to ‘Greater Serbia’ (read: unholy alliance greece and milosevic’s Serbia)
3)In 1999 Serbia actively forced 350,000 Kosovo refugees into Macedonia with the aim of destabilising Macedonia and creating conflict there, with the aim of diverting attention from Milosevic’s ethnic cleansing program in Kosovo.

@ Vojvodina - dobro si rekao, samo sto nebi mislio da bi te svoja braca tako lako izdali za djabe! Za ceo svet, mogu da razumem, al svoje najblizi, malo teze se guta!!
Od kojih srca se ti nalazis, Banat, Backe ili Srema?

@icj1 - now you're just playing ( I hope) stupid...put down the pipe and get back into 2017!
No one has time to keep repeating things for you... Just sit there and we'll get back to you when everything's figured out...sheesh!

@ VMRO - what else have we got lose, pray tell?? All our friends stood by like the house by the side of the road ( including Russia) as the strongest military alliance in the history of mankind rained down death and destruction on Serbia... And in the end, NATO still had to compromise to end the aggresion! We Srbs know and believe that most of our neighbors population were with us in heart, but the governments had to sell their souls or face the consequences!
Serbia has a lot of problems, and it's people very stubborn, but we never go down without the other guy paying a price too.
I work with a lot of Macedonians and I know they like Srbs like fellow Slavs, it's the policies of corrupt people in power that hurt us all...whoever it be...Srbi, Albanci, Makedonci..

133 countries recognize Macedonia under it's constitutional name. If Serbia changes policy to favour that Greeks, then 132 countries will still recognize Macedonia under it's constitutional name. That is the majority of the world. Now if Serbia wants to return to the old Serbia-Greece brotherly love, well then it's neighbours can pursue new alliances also. Serbia still has alot to lose should this occur.

What the heck?

Serbia created Macedonia accidentally by Annexing parts of Vardar Macedonia where the dialects spoken were closest to Bulgarian and the conscious Bulgarian (AKA the bands of VMRO/IMRO)

89 years of Serb and communist opression altered the character of the people . The truth is that historically that the Serbs and the Bulgars are bigger enemies in comparisons to Albanians and Bulgars..

100 000 Macedonians joined and fought for the Bulgarian army against the Serbs in WWI..

Come visit Bitola, the place is littered with French war graves well kept and maintained, yet you won't find a single Bulgarian war grave.. eradicated by the communists with their social experiment.

Come visit Ohrid, and see where Tsar Samoil ruled the Balkans from.

Geez you can't make up this stuff in a horror movie.

Macedonia cannot remain viable without Serbia's help in the region.
(njegos, 2 January 2017 18:47)

Of course, dear, of course. Macedonia cannot remain viable without Serbia's help. Croatia is at Serbia's mercy. Bosnia & Hercegovina the same. Montenegro cannot live without Serbia. And, of course, Kosovo would not exist without Serbia's magnanimity. It would be hard to find a country that can survive without Serbia's permission. I hope you feel better now in the knowledge that Serbia is the master of the universe lol

Znaci!!!
I Srpski politicari isto GOVNO kako Makedonski
Dobro e sto narodot od dvete drzavi se pocituva pomegju sebe.

Dacic is intentionally trying to win short term political points with his voters. He knows what he is saying is travesty.
First of all Kosovo is a political reality, unfortunately. You can thank your great leader Milosevic for that, who thought that political conflicts are solved by ethnic cleansing, even after seeing the result of that course of action in Bosnia. Of course the international community was going to react in the face of genocide, and Serbs lost Kosovo formally as well, instead of coming up with some deal like major autonomy and civil rights for the Kosovar Albanians, as a way to keep them in Serbia.
See, Macedonia is not as stupid as Serbia, because it knows that a policy of head-on conflict with the Albanians who make up 25% of the country will lead to the destruction of the state. Hence, despite not liking Albanians, Macedonia needs to find a way to accomodate for their wishes and integrate them, because they are also citizens. This is what a normal political decision in a multiethnic country looks like - Macedonia can't go against the wishes of a 25% of its population.
Serbia should have done the same with Kosovo, but they didn't. This is not Macedonia's fault: EU (where Serbia wants to be) has recognized Kosovo. Macedonia is looking out for its own stability.
If Dacic believes that recognizing the state of Kosovo is reciprocical with not recognizing the very identity of a people than hes an idiot. But he's not, he's just a calculated nationalist pig.

Serbia from the beginning is looking to negotiate on Kosovo!
(Watcher, 2 January 2017 17:38)

Really?! Like when Serbia decided to "settle" the status of Kosovo by a constitutional referendum in 2006 in which it removed from the voters' list most of Kosovo's population?!
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Less than independence, more than autonomy has been, is, and will be the only way to unlock the Kosovo question! No two ways about it! What Serbia is asking is fair!
(Watcher, 2 January 2017 17:38)

Sure, and according to the most patriotic of Serbs the current situation for Kosovo is already less than independence, more than autonomy. So what you want has already been achieved, dear. So I have no idea what you are asking...
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That is what Macedonia did... In the hope of appeasing the powers to be. Macedonia sold out its integrity
(Watcher, 2 January 2017 17:38)

Well, Macedonia just recognized something that was in accordance with international law (as confirmed by Vuk's herculean efforts to have that clarified). So, I'm not sure how the recognition of something that is in accordance with international law is considered by you as a sellout of integrity!!!

So we are alienating our neighbors for voting how they believed rather then how Serbia wants them to?

Most of the world recognized Kosovo. Should we make enemies out of them too?

What does Serbia want?

Get back Kosovo?

Are you sure you want 2 million Kosovo albanian voters deciding in Serbia?

Give 2 million Kosovo Albanians Serbian passports so they can travel and live anywhere in Serbia? You want that?

Or how you are going to get Kosovo back? You perhaps plan to kill 2m Kosovo Albanians?

Clear your ideas on those questions. Blaming the smaller neighbors for your problems is easy but will solve nothing.

War criminal and fool go together.

Jugoslavija: War Cemetery in Thessaloniki Greece where fallen heroes of all the allies including the Serbs in the Salonika front can be see...

1/ Greeks are brotherly people to most of the Slavs so let's take it as an axiom not to waste time. Also Greeks had third big partizan army (after two Serbians) in the Balkans during WW2. But truth is a bigger friend as one of your legend runs ... So I have to repeat things that once spoiled my relations with Leonidas :

2/ There was only one world empire in the history of mankind. It was descendant from the Byzantine (Romey, Troy) Empire and it's capitol was always in Rus lands. Byzantine was too small to be called a world empire because it was a Mediterranien empire while the Slavs seized the whole world including Antarctida, both Americas, Australia, Asia. Word Europa appeared in 18 century as a civilizational and political criteria. So no Ancient Rome on the Appenines or Ancient Greece, Ancient Egypt, Mesopothamia, Assyria, Persia, India, China, Israel ect. ever existed. We can talk about each.

3/ Oldenburgs, Jesuits and the Benedictians have already granted the Greeks greater part of the Slavic history and fame. So it's enough and leave Macedonia alone.Even Thessaloniki that you mention was a Slavic city and it still has it Russian name (Soloniki = Saltmen) to say nothing of the Cossacks whom you called the Spartans. I am ready to go to the details. Famous Russian killer Alexander Solonik flew there guess why?

Another foolish Serbian leader making bold accusations, stirring the shit pot! Liberty and freedom are locked in the shackles of ignorance.
Bravo to any level headed balkanite that agrees with these tyrants.
Nationalism cheered on by nationalism from across state lines.
Those who haven't learned the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it!

Rote, did it ever occur to you that everyone named Alexander are not necessarily the same person. You might want to pass on this information to Fomenkin.

The only thing that I can read out of this article is that Greece is soon to recognize Kosovo

Serbia has slapped Greece in the face many times before ,its not just the "Macedonia"
(PyrrosUZ, 2 January 2017 19:36) you keep dreaming the new world is here ,it has started already.......kosvo is done and your thaci knows it that's why he wants to kiss putin you know where.....the bear(Russia) and the dragon (china) are the world leaders....India, Philippines and many nations have joined them.....bye bye.....enjoy the show.....its here....

Macedonians have always looked at Serbians as brothers. So many trucks of donations we have sent for the Serbian floods. We had a peaceful agreement for the independence from Yugoslavia. Macedonians are among the very few neighbors that do not hate Serbia.

As Macedonian I can say most of the Macedonians do not agree with the Kosovo independence. Not in our interest first of all because the same separation in very likely in Macedonia too.. But it was international pressure from USA and our politicians are weak.

That said, this statement has no sense. Macedonia is not relevant. Serbia does not protest or boycott bigger relevant powers like EU. So this is just empty populism, that just can worsen Macedonia-Serbia relations and create hate between the nations. So there is nothing good from this kind of statements.

Another Macedonian

If I were you I would start with an apology. Of course if you are not a trained Shqiptar troll ... But you went way back to the early 20 century so I ask you WHY SHOULD YOU ? Are you lacking mortal enemies ? Supposingly together with Ivica Dacic will increase tense in the relations. What's next? Will life in Macedonia become safer or better? Then why are you here? Remember how miserable 50 bandits put you in the dog's position ? Those days only Serbs could help you but hat spitted to that well before ... See the links that I gave here to have arguments that the Macedon people are Slavs. In 1453 Constantinople was attacked by the Rus people from the Macedonian territory ...

THAT IS TOO LATE NOW SERBIA WAS ONE OF THE FIRST COUNTRIES THAT RECOGNIZED THIS SLAVIC PROVENCE AS MACEDONIA HURTING THE FEELINGS OF THE ENTIRE GREEK NATION AND STATE ,BUT THE GREEK GOVERNMENT SHOULD HAD RECOGNIZED KOSOVO AS WELL BUT IT DIDN'T UNTIL TODAY ,ITS STILL TIME ,,EYE ON EYE SAYS TO THE BIBLE RIGHT ?

Macedonia is Greek not those other people....

njegos

We know that all your neighbors except Greece have betrayed you over KIM. But try to be reasonable those are different issues. Kosovo is different from naming of the Slavic country and it people pressured from all sides. Another voice in favor of the Whites means nothing until Russia supports Serbia. Besides we also have best relations with Greece and we stick to the Macedonian name of this Slavic people. Those are separate problems. To say nothing that by betraying you the Macedonians deprived themselves of the most reliable ally in the region. We saw it 2 years ago when 50 Shqips were able to paralize the state. Serbia could quite invade and help them restore the order. It did not happen you know. Same with the Montenegrins who are also threatened by the US chain dogs. Thus the traitors have already punished themselves. So why should we help the ruling clans in these countries to further tear the peoples apart? I am sure it was a stupid and provocative interview that can only harm you and your neighbors. People are designed to never admit their mistakes you know and SORRY really seems to be the hardest word.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3nScN89Klo

@ROTE

Go vist the tome of King Philip of Macedon in Vergina Greece instead of spewing unsubstantiated alternative history.
http://www.feelgreece.com/en/tomb-of-phillip-of-macedon

Another tourist destination for you, Zeitenlik, the Allied War Cemetery in Thessaloniki Greece where fallen heroes of all the allies including the Serbs in the Salonika front can be see. If it were not for the Greeks, Serbia as a nation may have not survived. http://ww1.canada.com/after-the-war/a-life-among-the-dead-86-year-old-serb-still-guards-over-fallen-countrymen-in-greece

The same Serbia that won't recognize the Macedonian Orthodox Church, and hasn't for decades? The same Serbia that pursued a reckless policy in Kosovo that resulted in hundreds of thousands of Albanian refugees pouring into Macedonia, of which many then hung around to start an insurrection? The same Serbia that contemplated invading Macedonia during the Yugoslav wars of the 1990s? The same Serbia that kept the Macedonians denationalized for several decades between the Balkan Wars and WW2?

Macedonia has not even begun to reciprocate the filth that Serbia has flung onto her. When has Serbia been a friend to Macedonia? They'd rather be best friends with the Greeks; which makes sense, as neither Serbia nor Greece have managed to let go of their chauvinistic and ultra-nationalistic tendencies and policies.

Serbia screwed up in Kosovo on its own accord. The Macedonians aren't to blame. Stop deflecting your flaws onto your neighbors. There was a Greater Albanian agenda at work in Kosovo and Serbia failed in dealing with it like a civilized country, and the Albanians got the upper hand on you because of how you reacted.

The only thing that I can read out of this article is that Greece is soon to recognize Kosovo

Serbia has slapped Greece in the face many times before ,its not just the "Macedonia"

more links about the Macedonians and the Great Slavic conquest

http://chronologia.org/en/seven5/empire20_05.html
http://chronologia.org/en/en_history/05_15.html
http://chronologia.org/en/old_books/history1761.html
http://chronologia.org/en/seven5/empire08_04.html
http://chronologia.org/old_map/st1_05_2.html

act that they reverted to paganism subsequently. Zonara (III) tells us that Emperor Basil of Macedon (Basilio Macedone Imperadore) sent Bishop Theophilus to the lands of the Russians so as to ...

http://chronologia.org/en/seven5/annex2.html

Is it really 3rd century A.D.? And also, the second question: When lived Alexander the Great Macedonian if he fights with Gog and Magog, i.e. - with Mongols, Goths and Tatars? Home Home in English...

http://chronologia.org/en/en_history/05_15.html

съобщава: “Inter vero Traciam vel Macedoniam et Mysiam inferi­orem modo Bulgari habitant, qui ex supra scripta maiore Skythia egressi...

http://chronologia.org/bl/blgary_antichna_svjat/7_hans_phllip.html

Furthermore, the wives of the “ancient” Alexander of Macedon and the mediaeval Suleiman I the Magnificent were all but namesakes – the wife of ...
http://chronologia.org/en/seven5/empire20_06.html

Название Македонии (MACEDONIAE) - справа внизу - могло произойти от сочетания МАГОГ+ДОН, МОГУ+ДОН, МОЩЬ+ДОН. То же ...

http://chronologia.org/old_map/st1_05_1.html

You realize Greece accepts Kosovo passports, Greece has an embassy in Pristina, Greece voted for Kosovo in UN?

1) The Biblical epoch of Moses – is the time of the Ottoman Conquest in the first half of the XV century.

The character of Moses comprises: the Golden Horde Khan of the first half of the XV century Olugh Mokhammad (of Kazan) or Ulug Mehmed (the Great Mahomet or Muhammad) the founder of Kazan (=Medina?); the Ataman (Ottoman) sultan Mehmed I (1402-1421); the Ataman (Ottoman) sultan Murad II (1421-1451); the Ataman (Ottoman) sultan Mohamed II the Conqueror(1451-1481). This very epoch is the same 'ancient classical' epoch of the wars of the Macedonian King Phillip II the Conqueror. It is at the same time the epoch of Kham Olugh-Mehmet in Russian History, circa 1420-1450.


2) The Biblical epoch of Joshua Ben Nun, who succeeded Moses, is the time of the Ottoman conquest, beginning with seizure of Czar-Grad in 1453 by Mohamed II, and culminating in the peak of the golden age under Suleiman the Magnificent (1520-1566). Suleiman was known as AL-QANUNI [336], т.5, с.148-149. It means the GREAT KHAN, as QANUNI AND KHAN only slightly differ in pronunciation. This epoch is also the epoch of Alexander the Great of Macedonia who continued the conquest of Phillip II. The figure of Alexander is multi-layered. He embodied both the events of the XV century (Olugh-Mohamed I, Mohamed II the Conqueror and also of the XVI century. Including events from the life description of Andronicus-Christ of the XII century.

http://chronologia.org/en/how_it_was/05_15.html

He is right for the simple fact that there is no Republic of Macedonia. The actual FYROM is just a land when Albanians and Bulgars origine people live. I think even North Korea will be surprised with all the fabricated history and other ancient shit FYROM as made. The only Macedonia is the Greek one and all the world knows it. Am a bit upset my albanian government time ago did same mistake as yours by recognizing FYROM constitutional name and even with that the keep treating ethnic albanians bad in there. Nubs.

Dacic is correct that Serbia made a big mistake in recognizing Macedonia when they in turn recognized an independent Kosovo. Macedonia is hanging on by a thread and it wouldn't surprise me if they imploded as a result of the Greater Albanian movement there. Macedonia cannot remain viable without Serbia's help in the region. Unless Macedonia changes course and starts supporting positions that are mutually in the best interest of them and their Slav brothers, the Serbs, they should be made to feel how difficult their lives will be without the support of Serbia. It won't be long before the Macedonians will need Serbia's help with their breakaway-minded Albanian population.

"Serbia has no problem in relations with Croatia, Croatia has a problem with itself, that is, its own history," Dacic observed.

Oh the irony

looks like the FM's stance was formed by Ari Gold - trader's prostitutionl position. Serbia urgently needs another FM as he must had got money from Soros for the interview to spoil relations with all the neighbors.
(rote, 2 January 2017 14:32) # C

Dacic is completely correct, recognizing a Greek name to a Slavic country contrary to the make believe history you believe in about Hellenic Macedonia.

@ Macedonian - you're confused ! Serbia from the beginning is looking to negotiate on Kosovo! They have always been willing to talk! Less than independence, more than autonomy has been, is, and will be the only way to unlock the Kosovo question! No two ways about it! What Serbia is asking is fair! What if the Albs claim 1/3 of Macedonia as independent and Serbia recognized it? That wouldn't be right, it would be WRoNG!! That is what Macedonia did... In the hope of appeasing the powers to be. Macedonia sold out its integrity to the western beast in the hopes that the beast would go vegetarian before it eats them! You're right, Macedonian.. You were under international pressure... And you caved! Who needs brothers who you cannot rely on...
With all that said, we Srbs still consider Macedonians brothers! We're idiots that way;) and you Macedonians, I'm wondering when you will appreciate that! I don't hold my breath !
Po zdrav svima:)

Almost never agree with Dacic, but he is spot on here. Traditionally, the people of FYROM are the boggest Serbs in history. They made up the Solunski Front which were a Serb army that retreated through Greece in WWI only to come back and help defeat Austro-Hungary. But after decades of brainwashing, these people are now pursuing a policy hostile to both Serbia and Greece.

Rote thinks Serbia's FM needs to be located in Moscow. He sees Serbia as a Russian colony and gets jealous if Serbia has ties to traditional friends i.e. Greece, Poland or any country that isnt Russia. He wants Serbia not as a friend but for Serbia to completley cuck itself to Russia.

Thankfully, Putin and his govt see things differently. They dont have an issue with Serbia having ties with other countries like jealous rote. Putin treats Serbia like an independent country, good thing hes not a nut job like rote!!!

I am beginning to think that ,something is on the air with Greece. Why would all of sudden Dacic say that we don't blame Greece if they recognize Kosova, because we recognized Macedonia with wrong name and insulted Greek people!?

No $@!# Sherlock... the only macedonia is Greek..or we can name it Monkeydonia

1. Serbia should first get a clear idea if wants EU or not.
2. Than Serbia should start with "reciprocity" measures with big guys like EU and USA, if it can and dare.
3. Than Serbia should get a clear idea what it wants with Kosovo NOW. Kill all Albanians there? How does getting back Kosovo look like in reality.

THAN lecture a weaker small neighbor than like Macedonia that under international pressure recognized Kosovo.

1/ Serbia's position toward Montenegro will depend on Montenegro's position toward the issues important to Serbia ... Montenegro is to us the same as Papua New Guinea.

2/ Serbia "made a mistake when it recognized that country under its constitutional name ('Republic of Macedonia')," considering that Skopje later recognized Kosovo as independent. ... Belgrade will continue to use Macedona's constitutional name in bilateral relations with Skopje, but will multilaterally, use the name used by the EU and the UN - i.e., FRYOM.

3/ we slapped our brothers the Greek, and now expect the Greek not to recognize Kosovo - while we recognized Macedonia by insulting the Greek, and they (Macedonians) are always voting in favor of Kosovo.


Looks like the FM's stance was formed by Ari Gold - trader's prostitutionl position. Serbia urgently needs another FM as he must had got money from Soros for the interview to spoil relations with all the neighbors. Strange to hear him to be pro-Russian. Poor is Russia if we have to rely on such narrow minded people in Serbia. Relations with the Greeks will not change but Serbophobes all over the region have got their best New Year gift. I would say it was a bridge burning interview to have consequences after Ivica leaves the chair. Sometimes best if you say nothing coz it's a mine field that Serbia will have to move through. Croats, Germans, Whites, Bosniaks must be happy. Congrats - they have an influential idiot inside Serbia ...

The FYROM has never been a friend of Serbia and has constantly supported the albanian terrorists.
Dacic needs to immediately reverse Serbias recognition of Macedonia to FYROM and support those who support Serbia.
As for Montenegro, i believe this is an issue based on dukanovics corrupt and criminal leadership.

At the end of the day, these tough words dont mean much. Actions would be far better, but the ship has sailed.

Poor Serbia so delusional it's criminal leaders live in la-la land. The ever innocent delusional heavenly people commuted barbaric crimes such not seen since WW 2. Smells like the same perpetual BS coming from incorrigible Serbia "Happy New Year".