Poll shows 52% against Mladić extradition

This is why we, Albanians/illyriers, are reluctant to trusting Serbs.

You down-play all the other etnic groups and over-play your own (?).

Tung

Commisioned by the DS? I don't buy it for a second from a party that sent dozens of innocent Serb knights to a NATO-funded court.

@ xheffo

What else do you expect from uck terrorists?

''Poll shows 52% against Mladić extradition''


This result is nothing for the serb people to be proud of. Those 52% of the people should first think about Serbrenica and the mothers of those sons who were massacred there before they answer such a question. If you are against the extradition of Mladic then you are supporting his former actions.

Perhaps the figures are an accurage reflection of public opinion, its hard to say.

However, its worthless if we don't know how the sample was taken and how many people took part. Ridiculous really.

What else do you expect from Serbia ?!

What else do you expect from Serbia ?!
(xheffo, 15 March 2011 13:48)

Couldn't have said it better myself.

You can bet that some of the numbers were inflated to fit the views of the DS, since this was their poll.

But even in a poll funded by an extremly pro EU party shows something startling for EU enthusiasts. 30% are against joining the EU, while only 18% are against the closest possible ties with Russia.

And keep in mind this IS a PRO EU CONDUCTED POLL.

Things are finally changing. The EU has no alternative mission in Serbia will be looked at as a great failure, much like the War on Drugs here in the US conducted by Ronald Regan.

28. Jun, Nema Predaje

Seems like double standards to me. Many Serbs want the Marty Report taken further and have a full investigations in the alleged organ harvesting war crimes, which I fully support; yet they don't want to see Mladic extradited and have him tried for war crimes committed in the Yugoslav wars. One set of principles for Mladic and another set of principles for those allegedly involved in the organ harvesting. It should be the same set of principles for all!

Thanks to General Maldic for having protected the Serbs during the civil war. I think he dis his best just as Oric, Gotovina or other officers. Of course, there are always individuals that does not obey the orders.

When the majority of Serbia doesn't see the crimes of a genocide comitter, then all talk with that people is in vain. And here we talk about of proven crimes with tons of evidences, graveyards full of victims. It is unbelievable how effective the political (but also religiously motivated) brain washing in Serbia works. But those figures also show that Croats, Bosniaks and Albanians rightfully defended themselves.

There is really not much to say than this kind of polls confirm everything what is already known and that the Serbian people has this devastating reputation for a reason.

It seems that serbs... despite being the only common denominator across all of violence, across all ethnic and religious lines in the balkans these last couple of decades... the current govts. "democratic" brainwashing seems to be to pretend that serbs were "really" helpless 3rd party bystanders who had nothing at all to do with what their leadership (that they alone put in power and cheered every step of the way) chose to do, therefore they bear no responsibility for anything anywhere... its actually quite unfair and unreasonable to suggest otherwise.

just goes to show, serbs havent changed at all.

52% of serbs didnt get bombed enough.

Right on Serbia! Enough of sending our people to the cangaroo court in the Hague. When are the croats going to stand trail for the massacres during WW2 and the 90s of close to 1 million serbs? When are albanians going to stand trail for obducting and murdering serbs thousands of serbs, not only in recent history but even during WW2 when they sided with Adolf Hiltler? When are albanians going to pay for trying to steal land that doesn't belong to them? And when is the world going to react to the terrorists in office in Pristina, currupting the entire region? Enough of double standards.

No surprise to see the gentiles sticking to their reinterpretation of 'genocide' to fit their political views.

They cannot be serious. Why the majority of Serbia supports a mass murderer? And they still wonder why they have such a bad reputation?

"I agree with you but How will they have control of monastery inside Kosovo? they going to fly with helicopter to visit them. I just dont see it sustainable since they wont trust Serbian police. kalingrad is in the corner and access to sea. "

It could be done similar to the Vatican state within/surrounded by Italy/Rome. Of course it needs trust, and some protection must be guaranteed against Albanian mob in case irresponsible Pristina media should come up with lies and tall stories about Serbs having drowned Albanian children (like in 2004).

Boris none of these suspected or indicted war criminals helped their own populations.

Indeed their dubious methods lowered the standard of war meaning that civilians of each nationality experienced more reprisals, as a result of war crimes committed by their forces.

It takes a lot more than a heroic image in the domestic media to persuade me of heroism.

hey, ian uk...
wasn't blair charged with war crimes over iraq... i mean, sure it'll be tough to make it stick, but truth is truth right? hey adamnyc, didn't bush win a second term after his first term full of retributive war crimes in iraq and afghanistan? again, no one seems to care, or mention that half of the us and uk (more than half) voted two suspected war criminals back into office... these two gentlemen have laid tons and tons of depleted uranium all over iraq, displacing (actually displacing and not simply staging) 1000000 people, killing, well not killing themselves, but rather order the deaths of hundreds of thousands or iraqis and afghanis and pakistanis (with whom they aren't even at pseudo war)...
it's neither relevant nor appropriate to single out a serbian population while you sit there on your southhampton dock not doing a thing to bring blair to trial, or eating your second best american pizza in the bronx while not encouraging your fellow americans to bring bush to trial.
you both might think that they were in the right, as might a number of your fellow citizens, as it seems do a number of serbia's citizens with respect to mladic.
so lets riddle me this of great ones, members of the enlightend cast...
how does the teacher expect the student to learn, when the teacher doesn't teach by any sort of example... for some that might have missed the analogy there... us/uk/france are worlds best/oldest/strongest/truest democracies/fighters for social freedoms and rights/defendors of the little guy are the teachers and then you have little/old/poor/recently communist/previously active monarchy serbia as the student. when you teach, you teach by setting a good example. as far as i can see us's example is that it's always ok to bomb the life out of some one else's country, its ok to remove a dictator regardless of how the citizens vote, that its okay to use nuclear/dirty weapons against civilians, that it's okay to target civilians and call them colateral damage, that it's okay to ignore your own constitution in the name of security.
it sounds to me like milosevic actual did learn from the masters, however the masters one uped him, just like saddam learned from his masters, like bin laden has learned from his master (both cases usa) how to lead.
when uk/usa/france actually stand up for the things they claim they do and not just for the flow of currency then perhaps we can all learn something. i'll refrain from holding my breath.

This is not a matter of democracy or public opinion.

Police do not have an election before they arrest a crook.

Mladic has to face trial, and if necessary that half of Serbia can go to the court with him. Who cares about the numbers who are corrupted by that way of thinking? I don't.

I do not understand how anyone can support a foul murderer.

Because I strongly support Serbia, I strongly support the idea of Mladic being put on trial and I do not care what court it is. Mladic may have served the Serbian cause in Bosnia, but he did not fight honourably. As a soldier that makes him much less than the best. Anyone who gives up Mladic is hero to Serbia and anyone who protects him supports a murderer and is a traitor to the good name of Serbia.

The only honourable thing left for Mladic is to put himself up for trial. Others have done that and at least deserve respect for being prepared to face their accusers rather than hiding in holes.

If you support a murderer, please rethink your life and your politics. And stop trying to blame everyone else for the situation. NATO, EU, etc were not the cause of Serbia's problems - they are just a reaction to the nasty nationalism and political incompetence in Serbia in the 90s.

I really do want Serbia out of the rut it was in, and hopefully these bits from the grubby past will be dealt with soon.

So some 30 percent want to turn in Mladic. Serbia has 15-20 percent minorities in Serbia... so lets say that half of those 30 are not serbs. It only shows how big an influence these minorities have on the country.

Wrong,99% of Serbs are against it,those 1% who want it cannot be Serbs!

It is obvious that the moral crisis in Serbia is still alive.

It is simply unbelievable for non-Serbs the Serbian love towards criminals as Mladic and Hadzic.

This is a clear symptom that Serbia is not a normal democratic society- far from that.

The daily also quoted sociologist Stjepan Grdelj who said that it was encouraging that 46 percent of respondents believe that a partition of Kosovo - that would give Serbia the north and "most important monasteries" - would be acceptable.

Encouraging to hear that almost the half are resonable people who have a sense for reality. If this number grows a bit more, and if the people in Kosovo learn about his reality, too, this would be a good result.

"One set of principles for Mladic and another set of principles for those allegedly involved in the organ harvesting. It should be the same set of principles for all!"
(Ian, UK, 15 March 2011 17:32)
I agree. But that's the usual Balkan bigotry. For the Serbs, Mladic is a hero, just like Thaci is a hero for Albanians. In fact, both are criminals, in their own way, and belong behind bars. At least Serbian government is aware of it and would sent Mladic to the Hague, while Kosovo government ... well, no need to continue...

roberto said, "oh, has anyone in that country ever heard of investigative reporting?"

You, who has no first hand knowledge and lacks objectivity asks about investigative reporting. Too funny!!

roberto also wrote... "i think that my voice should carry at least as much weight as other journalists or investigators"

Yea, right.
There is something rather pathetic about a person who has to blow their own horn.

Don't quit your middle school job.

In Serbia:
*) Mladic is not a hero
*) They overthrew Milosovic, and it was not because of the bombing but because of his policies. Hundreds of thousands protested and some died
*) Most people HATED the war, and they tried very hard to avoid being forced to join the army
*) Milosovic was handed over to the Hague, and Karadzic. Mladic would be as well, but the Serbs are noticing that they seem to be the only ones geeting punished, and don't feel it is fair as there were atrociities on all sides. As stated earlier they wanted to try him in Serbia where he would have been found guilty and the trial would have been faster.
*) Most people were happy to see Montenegro go
*) Many people don't care about Kosovo because of the economic situation now, but feel it is their holy place and should be part of Serbia

That is why when I read about "Serbs think Mladic is a hero" I shake my head, because most don't. What I see on the streets of Serbia isn't what some people on this forum claim it to be.

Roberto,one honest question:

Why are you posting your bs on this site?

Nobody of us Serbs is interested in your opinion anyway,so Mladic will die peacefully in his bed as a free man.
And no,Kosovo is NEVER going to be independent!
And no,Serbs were never nazistic collaborators,it was Albanians,Bosniaks and Croats who sided with Hitler,so much for your talk about denazification!
As for your "Serbian dissidents",there is no such thing,Biserko is a fanatical Croatian nationalist whose brother died ethnically cleansing Serbs in Serbian Krajina!
Speaking about collaboration and resistance to the nazi rule,remember that it was a Serb peasant who saved Madeleine Albrights family from extinction in the Holocaust,and we now how she thanked their life saviors.
That speaks volumes about the character of a certain people!

Absolutely right. That's because we're viewing Serbia from Serbia and not from some chetnik club in Sydney.
(Milos Obilic, 16 March 2011 14:52)
=======================

You say chetnik as if it was a bad thing.

Consider this -

Most Serbian's do not actually defend Mladic from standing trial, but only feel that he should stand trial in Serbia and not in some kangaroo political court.

If Mladic committed crimes in Serbia's name, than let Serbia judge him.

This principle applies to all indicated Serbians.

I think if not for the blindingly obvious corruption within the Milosevic trial, there would be far more support for extradiction.

Instead of trying Mladic at the Hague, Why not try him in Brko? with a joint Bosniak-Serbian court (under UN observation), the two sides should balance out any hint of corruption from the other.

Hi Peggy

On this one you are wrong. There is no politics in arresting murderers.

Bob

Encouraging to hear that almost the half are resonable people who have a sense for reality. If this number grows a bit more, and if the people in Kosovo learn about his reality, too, this would be a good result.
(Top, 15 March 2011 13:30)

I agree with you but How will they have control of monastery inside Kosovo? they going to fly with helicopter to visit them. I just dont see it sustainable since they wont trust Serbian police. kalingrad is in the corner and access to sea.

I would say north is hard to go due to Amerikans and british they want Trepca and if it goes under Serbia it will be Russian hence Autonomy inside Kosovo nothing to do with love for Albanians.

Top from start i seen you as a more realistic and modern Serb please dont move right as most people here after few month commenting both sides need to have people with open mind.

I would like your opinion on monasteries as well on north.

all the rest is pure diversion -- the "10,000" men and women hard on the search (please!!), the harassment of the mladic family (not that i'm esp.ly sympathetic to them), even the capture of the diary. true it might help a bit in some of the hague trial proceedings, backing up what we've already known (since 1995!). but all diversions, all bs. brammertz, the eurocrat; del ponte, the white witch; all of the threats, promises, vows... all bs, all diversions.

now it might be true that some of us, in the past, bought into these diversions: oh, it's about to happen, he'll be arrested, they promise, she swears it. my sarajevo frnds thought i was totally bananas, which was true. i thought i could somehow will it to happen, but they knew their "frdns" fr the aggressor state better than i.

years ago we said: intrnl community must FORCE the issue, or it will never, ever happen. as usual we were right, right then, right now. and it is not always fun to be right.

your beloved mladic is living the life of luxury (that is, freedom)just a # of km from yr headquarters. all you can do is to reprint insipid articles and polls, and scream (was 3X per day): organ trafficking! organ trafficking! organ trafficking! which you sourced from that hack marty's SMEAR report, which just repeated allegations fr del ponte and co., and always in close collaboration with moscow and belgrade. so that now people have the frigin nerve! to compare thaci to mass-murderer mladic. so sick. or trying to relativize war guilt by having our beloved general divjak held as political prisoner.

the power of propaganda, the power of milosevic propaganda, and no one takes responsibility. no one. ever. no conscience, what's that? Let them all eat nationalism.

when i'm over in the balkans later this month, i will survey our own frnds, ngo's re mladic, and try to get his location closer than "km's fr media headquarters."

roberto
frisco
(roberto, 16 March 2011 03:03)

And introducing today's guest commentator... Charley Sheen!

(kujon, 16 March 2011 12:38)

You reflect the mood of the ultraliberal,yugoloving,anational Belgradians who often intermarry with Gypsies and who think that Serbia is Belgrade.

Question:

Have you in the last 20 years been outside Belgrade?

What I see on the streets of Serbia isn't what some people on this forum claim it to be.
(kujon, 16 March 2011 12:38)

Absolutely right. That's because we're viewing Serbia from Serbia and not from some chetnik club in Sydney.

By the lashings of praise the Serbian camp throws at Mladic. The leader of an army that laid siege to sarajevo , that gutlessly murdered non serbs whos hands were tied behind their backs , and who , for generations has caused the region to live in hatred and bitterness.

How is any decent human being not repulsed by such repugnant grovelling.

You claim to be Christians , now ask yourself , "would Christ murder 8000 unarmed human beings at Srebrenica ?"

# It is obvious that the moral crisis in Serbia is still alive.

It is simply unbelievable for non-Serbs the Serbian love towards criminals as Mladic and Hadzic.

This is a clear symptom that Serbia is not a normal democratic society- far from that.
(ben, 15 March 2011 19:20)

Yes, my friend, you said a mouthful.

the serbian dissident intellectuals talk about the desperate need for de-nazification -- it never happened.

the serbian dissident intellectuals talk about the pressing need for cultural decontamination -- it hasn't yet come to pass.

their press, their church, their politicos -- is this still the 90s? sure sounds like it. sure feels like it.
no moral center -- endless nationalism, ad nauseum, but no one has really dealt with the obvious underlying thesis here -- this is a tacit admission (duh) that mladic is right there. the blgd regime is pussyfooting around, trying to figure out what to do about their fugitive, that mass-murderer they've harbored for the last 10 years. does he stay of does he go? at what political cost?

all the rest is pure diversion -- the "10,000" men and women hard on the search (please!!), the harassment of the mladic family (not that i'm esp.ly sympathetic to them), even the capture of the diary. true it might help a bit in some of the hague trial proceedings, backing up what we've already known (since 1995!). but all diversions, all bs. brammertz, the eurocrat; del ponte, the white witch; all of the threats, promises, vows... all bs, all diversions.

now it might be true that some of us, in the past, bought into these diversions: oh, it's about to happen, he'll be arrested, they promise, she swears it. my sarajevo frnds thought i was totally bananas, which was true. i thought i could somehow will it to happen, but they knew their "frdns" fr the aggressor state better than i.

years ago we said: intrnl community must FORCE the issue, or it will never, ever happen. as usual we were right, right then, right now. and it is not always fun to be right.

your beloved mladic is living the life of luxury (that is, freedom)just a # of km from yr headquarters. all you can do is to reprint insipid articles and polls, and scream (was 3X per day): organ trafficking! organ trafficking! organ trafficking! which you sourced from that hack marty's SMEAR report, which just repeated allegations fr del ponte and co., and always in close collaboration with moscow and belgrade. so that now people have the frigin nerve! to compare thaci to mass-murderer mladic. so sick. or trying to relativize war guilt by having our beloved general divjak held as political prisoner.

the power of propaganda, the power of milosevic propaganda, and no one takes responsibility. no one. ever. no conscience, what's that? Let them all eat nationalism.

when i'm over in the balkans later this month, i will survey our own frnds, ngo's re mladic, and try to get his location closer than "km's fr media headquarters."

oh, has anyone in that country ever heard of investigative reporting? sorry, i don't know how to translate it into serbo-croatian...

thank you.

roberto
frisco

I do not believe that the majority of Serbs would support Mladic. I also hope that Serbia moves onto a path of promise.

However, unfortunately, according to Radio Free Europe and a survey, the majority of Serbs do not know and/or accept the facts of 1991-1999.

Facts are stubborn things:

1991-95: The ancient city of Dubrovnik, Croatia, is bombed by Serb and Montenegrian sea forces (ships). Large numbers of civilians are killed, Catholic churches set in flames, and UNESCO sites destroyed.

1991-95: Paramilitary forces commit a slaughter in Vukovar, Croatia. The town is destroyed. Mass graves are still being found.

1992-1996: Sarajevo is is put under seige. This will be the longest seige in the history of modern warfare. Paramilitary/Yugoslav forces commit another slaughter. Churches, hopitals, homes, libraries, and museums are bombed. Snipers pick off civilians trying to get food and water. Vukovar is already well under way. The city is almost completely destroyed. More mass graves. Only stops in 1996 because of the Dayton Accords.

1992-96: Mostar is attacked by the Yugo National Army and Serb-Montenegrian forces. Churches and mosques are destroyed. More mass graves

1992-96: After the Yugo Army occupation of Prijedor, 60,000 Muslims have taken refuge in Srebrenica. Despite the UN Security Council Resolution of 1995 (trying to make Srebrenica a 'safe haven" in appaling conditions) Serbia attacks. The UN tried for a cease fire, but it is not passed and the Dutch leave. 8,000 men and boys are slaughtered in the biggest genocide outside of WWII. Serbs destroy mosques and Catholic monasteries. Karadzic and Mladic are important leaders.

1999 March 18: an international Peace Accord is signed in Paris. Milosevic boycotts.

March 20: International monitors withdraw from Kosovo. NATO believes that Kosovo will become another Srebrenica. Now known for about 3 years.

March 23: Richard Holbrooke arrives in Belgrade and talks to Milosevic and asks for the Peace Accord. The Serb Parliament solidly rejects the accord and sending peace keeping troops into Kosovo.

March 24: NATO bombing begins.

2000: Milosevic overwhelmingly protested, but secure in Belgrade in his villa.

2003: Zoran Djindjic assasinated by Serbs in downtown Belgrade. He was even on crutches at the time. Djindjic turned Milosevic over to the Hague.

2008: Karadzic finally found hiding out in New Belgrade. Twelve years after Srebrenica. Now in The Hague.

2011: Mladic still not found. Likely in Serbia. Fifteen years after Srebrenica and 20 years after the beginning of the wars.

Very brief history. In a nut shell, the international community did not trust that Milosevic, his army either stop or be able to police themselves.
They still are not sure that Serbia has the requisite maturity and majority.

My belief? The people in power now are largely hopeless, and some even dangerous.

My hope? That there is a critical mass of of citizens, mostly under the age of 30, who will say enough. You have not been represented well for at least 20 years and should not tolerate it any longer. Many were young chidren when the wars started. But you are grown up now.

The Tadic group was likely legitimate, but has proven they have no competence or authority. Too much time has been wasted, and they will waste more. Djindic showed great promise and courage, but he was murdered. It has already been 8 years since his assassination.

How much more time is anyone willing to give up?

Early elections please. But take your vote and representation very seriously.

All democracies get the leadership they deserve.

Hi Peggy

On this one you are wrong. There is no politics in arresting murderers.

Bob
(Bob, 17 March 2011 14:44)
=========================

Yes, but when the court is playing politics then you have no choice.

Hi Peggy

Fine by me - send him to the Hague and make sure that they are under pressure to give him a fair trial.

Exactly what I want.

I am glad we want the same thing.

Politics is a separate matter and criminals should not be players.
(Bob, 18 March 2011 13:34)
=====================

WRONG. We don't want the same thing.
I already stated firmly that I don't believe in Hague and he should not be tried there.

Can you please tell me how can Serbia put pressure on Hague to give him a fair trial? Please , only a serious answer and next time don't put words in my mouth either.

hey, ian uk...
wasn't blair charged with war crimes over iraq... i mean, sure it'll be tough to make it stick, but truth is truth right?
(bobbie, 16 March 2011 00:48)

He hasn't been charged with War Crimes but he should be. I'd like to see that monster tried at the Hague along with Bush, have them locked up and throw away the Keys.

Where is "Peggy" and "Zoran" on this issue? It seems that anything negative about Serbia they want no part or have no opinions.
(AJ, 17 March 2011 01:10)
=======================

I am still here. Actually, I don't regard this as negative.
I think more than half (including non Serbs) is very good.

You say chetnik as if it was a bad thing.
(Peggy, 17 March 2011 11:51)

How do you work that out? Anyway, Good Morning Australia! Now come back here and pay some tax.

However, unfortunately, according to Radio Free Europe and a survey, the majority of Serbs do not know and/or accept the facts of 1991-1999.

(Charli, 16 March 2011 22:41)

I suggest you look at the Author of that article first, his name is Nenad Pejic, his nationality, Bosniak. His old job was Sarajevan TV, meaning he's worked in propoganda before

You say chetnik as if it was a bad thing.
(Peggy, 17 March 2011 11:51)

How do you work that out?
=================

Implication, context.

Peggy, your arguing the concept of justice with a troll who doesn't understand the concept of innocent until proven guilty. He's all for the old 'givem a fair trial and then a right fine hangin' idea. Of course we've seen the Hague jump the gun on that when before.

I'm betting he agrees with every word 'charli' wrote.

Hi Peggy

Fine by me - send him to the Hague and make sure that they are under pressure to give him a fair trial.

Exactly what I want.

I am glad we want the same thing.

Politics is a separate matter and criminals should not be players.

Hi Peggy

Why are you so concerned about him or the Hague - why should you see it as a problem?

As I have said in an earlier posting, I don't care what court he goes too, and actually, I don't have much of a hang up about the Hague.

What I do have a hang up about is murderers, and people who support murderers as part of their politics.

I can see no reason to support Mladic, and I think it is a big problem for Serbia that there are people who put his status and how me might get tried above the fact that nasty murders were done.

And don't blame NATO and the west - all that started within the Balkans by those whose nasty nationalism broke up the YU.

I have no sympathy for your arguments at all, and go as far as to say that you are mislead and terribly wrong to make an issue of this man's appointment with necessary justice. Mladic needs to answer somewhere. When someone has a gun fired and dies - there is blood on the ground. There is a reality to what happened - this is not a philosophical or political issue.

I read your postings and follow your cause - but defending Mladic is against the cause. I don't put words in your mouth - I show surprise at the issue you choose to pursue and perhaps thought better than was appropriate.

Hi Peggy

I don't care even if the court plays politics (although you are saying that and not me) as long as it gives a well considered published conclusion at the end of the trial.

Mladic should be in the Hague, and it does no good for the future of Serbia to argue otherwise.

To try to turn this into a political issue is spurious and counter productive.

It does no good for Serbia for the world to know that people in Serbia defend someone like Mladic - all that does is confirm to the outside world that there is still a problem with Serbia coming to terms with the issues.

It does no good for Serbia for the world to know that people in Serbia defend someone like Mladic - all that does is confirm to the outside world that there is still a problem with Serbia coming to terms with the issues.
(Bob, 17 March 2011 22:40)
=====================

Nobody is defending Mladic but he deserves a fair trial. You may not agree but that is justice. Any court playing politics will not give a fair trial.
Seeing how you don't care about the court playing politics then you also must not care that Serbs will not get justice in that particular court.
If you think that Serbs don't deserve justice then just say so, but please don't turn this into some Serbs don't want to face up to what happened.

What else do you expect from Serbia ?!
(xheffo, 15 March 2011 13:48)

Couldn't have said it better myself.
(ivan)
-
Then stop expecting things. :)

Where is "Peggy" and "Zoran" on this issue? It seems that anything negative about Serbia they want no part or have no opinions.

@Bob,
I have already explained all that to you earlier but if you don't have the intelligent to comprehend then that's your problem.

I have no intention of repeating myself and frankly I don't care what you think so kindly get off my back.

This is why we, Albanians/illyriers, are reluctant to trusting Serbs.

You down-play all the other etnic groups and over-play your own (?).

Tung

What else do you expect from Serbia ?!

What else do you expect from Serbia ?!
(xheffo, 15 March 2011 13:48)

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Commisioned by the DS? I don't buy it for a second from a party that sent dozens of innocent Serb knights to a NATO-funded court.

The daily also quoted sociologist Stjepan Grdelj who said that it was encouraging that 46 percent of respondents believe that a partition of Kosovo - that would give Serbia the north and "most important monasteries" - would be acceptable.

Encouraging to hear that almost the half are resonable people who have a sense for reality. If this number grows a bit more, and if the people in Kosovo learn about his reality, too, this would be a good result.

It seems that serbs... despite being the only common denominator across all of violence, across all ethnic and religious lines in the balkans these last couple of decades... the current govts. "democratic" brainwashing seems to be to pretend that serbs were "really" helpless 3rd party bystanders who had nothing at all to do with what their leadership (that they alone put in power and cheered every step of the way) chose to do, therefore they bear no responsibility for anything anywhere... its actually quite unfair and unreasonable to suggest otherwise.

just goes to show, serbs havent changed at all.

52% of serbs didnt get bombed enough.

''Poll shows 52% against Mladić extradition''


This result is nothing for the serb people to be proud of. Those 52% of the people should first think about Serbrenica and the mothers of those sons who were massacred there before they answer such a question. If you are against the extradition of Mladic then you are supporting his former actions.

When the majority of Serbia doesn't see the crimes of a genocide comitter, then all talk with that people is in vain. And here we talk about of proven crimes with tons of evidences, graveyards full of victims. It is unbelievable how effective the political (but also religiously motivated) brain washing in Serbia works. But those figures also show that Croats, Bosniaks and Albanians rightfully defended themselves.

There is really not much to say than this kind of polls confirm everything what is already known and that the Serbian people has this devastating reputation for a reason.

Thanks to General Maldic for having protected the Serbs during the civil war. I think he dis his best just as Oric, Gotovina or other officers. Of course, there are always individuals that does not obey the orders.

Seems like double standards to me. Many Serbs want the Marty Report taken further and have a full investigations in the alleged organ harvesting war crimes, which I fully support; yet they don't want to see Mladic extradited and have him tried for war crimes committed in the Yugoslav wars. One set of principles for Mladic and another set of principles for those allegedly involved in the organ harvesting. It should be the same set of principles for all!

@ xheffo

What else do you expect from uck terrorists?

They cannot be serious. Why the majority of Serbia supports a mass murderer? And they still wonder why they have such a bad reputation?

Right on Serbia! Enough of sending our people to the cangaroo court in the Hague. When are the croats going to stand trail for the massacres during WW2 and the 90s of close to 1 million serbs? When are albanians going to stand trail for obducting and murdering serbs thousands of serbs, not only in recent history but even during WW2 when they sided with Adolf Hiltler? When are albanians going to pay for trying to steal land that doesn't belong to them? And when is the world going to react to the terrorists in office in Pristina, currupting the entire region? Enough of double standards.

"One set of principles for Mladic and another set of principles for those allegedly involved in the organ harvesting. It should be the same set of principles for all!"
(Ian, UK, 15 March 2011 17:32)
I agree. But that's the usual Balkan bigotry. For the Serbs, Mladic is a hero, just like Thaci is a hero for Albanians. In fact, both are criminals, in their own way, and belong behind bars. At least Serbian government is aware of it and would sent Mladic to the Hague, while Kosovo government ... well, no need to continue...

# It is obvious that the moral crisis in Serbia is still alive.

It is simply unbelievable for non-Serbs the Serbian love towards criminals as Mladic and Hadzic.

This is a clear symptom that Serbia is not a normal democratic society- far from that.
(ben, 15 March 2011 19:20)

Yes, my friend, you said a mouthful.

the serbian dissident intellectuals talk about the desperate need for de-nazification -- it never happened.

the serbian dissident intellectuals talk about the pressing need for cultural decontamination -- it hasn't yet come to pass.

their press, their church, their politicos -- is this still the 90s? sure sounds like it. sure feels like it.
no moral center -- endless nationalism, ad nauseum, but no one has really dealt with the obvious underlying thesis here -- this is a tacit admission (duh) that mladic is right there. the blgd regime is pussyfooting around, trying to figure out what to do about their fugitive, that mass-murderer they've harbored for the last 10 years. does he stay of does he go? at what political cost?

all the rest is pure diversion -- the "10,000" men and women hard on the search (please!!), the harassment of the mladic family (not that i'm esp.ly sympathetic to them), even the capture of the diary. true it might help a bit in some of the hague trial proceedings, backing up what we've already known (since 1995!). but all diversions, all bs. brammertz, the eurocrat; del ponte, the white witch; all of the threats, promises, vows... all bs, all diversions.

now it might be true that some of us, in the past, bought into these diversions: oh, it's about to happen, he'll be arrested, they promise, she swears it. my sarajevo frnds thought i was totally bananas, which was true. i thought i could somehow will it to happen, but they knew their "frdns" fr the aggressor state better than i.

years ago we said: intrnl community must FORCE the issue, or it will never, ever happen. as usual we were right, right then, right now. and it is not always fun to be right.

your beloved mladic is living the life of luxury (that is, freedom)just a # of km from yr headquarters. all you can do is to reprint insipid articles and polls, and scream (was 3X per day): organ trafficking! organ trafficking! organ trafficking! which you sourced from that hack marty's SMEAR report, which just repeated allegations fr del ponte and co., and always in close collaboration with moscow and belgrade. so that now people have the frigin nerve! to compare thaci to mass-murderer mladic. so sick. or trying to relativize war guilt by having our beloved general divjak held as political prisoner.

the power of propaganda, the power of milosevic propaganda, and no one takes responsibility. no one. ever. no conscience, what's that? Let them all eat nationalism.

when i'm over in the balkans later this month, i will survey our own frnds, ngo's re mladic, and try to get his location closer than "km's fr media headquarters."

oh, has anyone in that country ever heard of investigative reporting? sorry, i don't know how to translate it into serbo-croatian...

thank you.

roberto
frisco

You can bet that some of the numbers were inflated to fit the views of the DS, since this was their poll.

But even in a poll funded by an extremly pro EU party shows something startling for EU enthusiasts. 30% are against joining the EU, while only 18% are against the closest possible ties with Russia.

And keep in mind this IS a PRO EU CONDUCTED POLL.

Things are finally changing. The EU has no alternative mission in Serbia will be looked at as a great failure, much like the War on Drugs here in the US conducted by Ronald Regan.

28. Jun, Nema Predaje

"I agree with you but How will they have control of monastery inside Kosovo? they going to fly with helicopter to visit them. I just dont see it sustainable since they wont trust Serbian police. kalingrad is in the corner and access to sea. "

It could be done similar to the Vatican state within/surrounded by Italy/Rome. Of course it needs trust, and some protection must be guaranteed against Albanian mob in case irresponsible Pristina media should come up with lies and tall stories about Serbs having drowned Albanian children (like in 2004).

It is obvious that the moral crisis in Serbia is still alive.

It is simply unbelievable for non-Serbs the Serbian love towards criminals as Mladic and Hadzic.

This is a clear symptom that Serbia is not a normal democratic society- far from that.

No surprise to see the gentiles sticking to their reinterpretation of 'genocide' to fit their political views.

Wrong,99% of Serbs are against it,those 1% who want it cannot be Serbs!

So some 30 percent want to turn in Mladic. Serbia has 15-20 percent minorities in Serbia... so lets say that half of those 30 are not serbs. It only shows how big an influence these minorities have on the country.

By the lashings of praise the Serbian camp throws at Mladic. The leader of an army that laid siege to sarajevo , that gutlessly murdered non serbs whos hands were tied behind their backs , and who , for generations has caused the region to live in hatred and bitterness.

How is any decent human being not repulsed by such repugnant grovelling.

You claim to be Christians , now ask yourself , "would Christ murder 8000 unarmed human beings at Srebrenica ?"

Perhaps the figures are an accurage reflection of public opinion, its hard to say.

However, its worthless if we don't know how the sample was taken and how many people took part. Ridiculous really.

Encouraging to hear that almost the half are resonable people who have a sense for reality. If this number grows a bit more, and if the people in Kosovo learn about his reality, too, this would be a good result.
(Top, 15 March 2011 13:30)

I agree with you but How will they have control of monastery inside Kosovo? they going to fly with helicopter to visit them. I just dont see it sustainable since they wont trust Serbian police. kalingrad is in the corner and access to sea.

I would say north is hard to go due to Amerikans and british they want Trepca and if it goes under Serbia it will be Russian hence Autonomy inside Kosovo nothing to do with love for Albanians.

Top from start i seen you as a more realistic and modern Serb please dont move right as most people here after few month commenting both sides need to have people with open mind.

I would like your opinion on monasteries as well on north.

Where is "Peggy" and "Zoran" on this issue? It seems that anything negative about Serbia they want no part or have no opinions.

Consider this -

Most Serbian's do not actually defend Mladic from standing trial, but only feel that he should stand trial in Serbia and not in some kangaroo political court.

If Mladic committed crimes in Serbia's name, than let Serbia judge him.

This principle applies to all indicated Serbians.

Where is "Peggy" and "Zoran" on this issue? It seems that anything negative about Serbia they want no part or have no opinions.
(AJ, 17 March 2011 01:10)
=======================

I am still here. Actually, I don't regard this as negative.
I think more than half (including non Serbs) is very good.

Boris none of these suspected or indicted war criminals helped their own populations.

Indeed their dubious methods lowered the standard of war meaning that civilians of each nationality experienced more reprisals, as a result of war crimes committed by their forces.

It takes a lot more than a heroic image in the domestic media to persuade me of heroism.

hey, ian uk...
wasn't blair charged with war crimes over iraq... i mean, sure it'll be tough to make it stick, but truth is truth right? hey adamnyc, didn't bush win a second term after his first term full of retributive war crimes in iraq and afghanistan? again, no one seems to care, or mention that half of the us and uk (more than half) voted two suspected war criminals back into office... these two gentlemen have laid tons and tons of depleted uranium all over iraq, displacing (actually displacing and not simply staging) 1000000 people, killing, well not killing themselves, but rather order the deaths of hundreds of thousands or iraqis and afghanis and pakistanis (with whom they aren't even at pseudo war)...
it's neither relevant nor appropriate to single out a serbian population while you sit there on your southhampton dock not doing a thing to bring blair to trial, or eating your second best american pizza in the bronx while not encouraging your fellow americans to bring bush to trial.
you both might think that they were in the right, as might a number of your fellow citizens, as it seems do a number of serbia's citizens with respect to mladic.
so lets riddle me this of great ones, members of the enlightend cast...
how does the teacher expect the student to learn, when the teacher doesn't teach by any sort of example... for some that might have missed the analogy there... us/uk/france are worlds best/oldest/strongest/truest democracies/fighters for social freedoms and rights/defendors of the little guy are the teachers and then you have little/old/poor/recently communist/previously active monarchy serbia as the student. when you teach, you teach by setting a good example. as far as i can see us's example is that it's always ok to bomb the life out of some one else's country, its ok to remove a dictator regardless of how the citizens vote, that its okay to use nuclear/dirty weapons against civilians, that it's okay to target civilians and call them colateral damage, that it's okay to ignore your own constitution in the name of security.
it sounds to me like milosevic actual did learn from the masters, however the masters one uped him, just like saddam learned from his masters, like bin laden has learned from his master (both cases usa) how to lead.
when uk/usa/france actually stand up for the things they claim they do and not just for the flow of currency then perhaps we can all learn something. i'll refrain from holding my breath.

Roberto,one honest question:

Why are you posting your bs on this site?

Nobody of us Serbs is interested in your opinion anyway,so Mladic will die peacefully in his bed as a free man.
And no,Kosovo is NEVER going to be independent!
And no,Serbs were never nazistic collaborators,it was Albanians,Bosniaks and Croats who sided with Hitler,so much for your talk about denazification!
As for your "Serbian dissidents",there is no such thing,Biserko is a fanatical Croatian nationalist whose brother died ethnically cleansing Serbs in Serbian Krajina!
Speaking about collaboration and resistance to the nazi rule,remember that it was a Serb peasant who saved Madeleine Albrights family from extinction in the Holocaust,and we now how she thanked their life saviors.
That speaks volumes about the character of a certain people!

(kujon, 16 March 2011 12:38)

You reflect the mood of the ultraliberal,yugoloving,anational Belgradians who often intermarry with Gypsies and who think that Serbia is Belgrade.

Question:

Have you in the last 20 years been outside Belgrade?

What I see on the streets of Serbia isn't what some people on this forum claim it to be.
(kujon, 16 March 2011 12:38)

Absolutely right. That's because we're viewing Serbia from Serbia and not from some chetnik club in Sydney.

Hi Peggy

On this one you are wrong. There is no politics in arresting murderers.

Bob

It does no good for Serbia for the world to know that people in Serbia defend someone like Mladic - all that does is confirm to the outside world that there is still a problem with Serbia coming to terms with the issues.
(Bob, 17 March 2011 22:40)
=====================

Nobody is defending Mladic but he deserves a fair trial. You may not agree but that is justice. Any court playing politics will not give a fair trial.
Seeing how you don't care about the court playing politics then you also must not care that Serbs will not get justice in that particular court.
If you think that Serbs don't deserve justice then just say so, but please don't turn this into some Serbs don't want to face up to what happened.

I think if not for the blindingly obvious corruption within the Milosevic trial, there would be far more support for extradiction.

Instead of trying Mladic at the Hague, Why not try him in Brko? with a joint Bosniak-Serbian court (under UN observation), the two sides should balance out any hint of corruption from the other.

all the rest is pure diversion -- the "10,000" men and women hard on the search (please!!), the harassment of the mladic family (not that i'm esp.ly sympathetic to them), even the capture of the diary. true it might help a bit in some of the hague trial proceedings, backing up what we've already known (since 1995!). but all diversions, all bs. brammertz, the eurocrat; del ponte, the white witch; all of the threats, promises, vows... all bs, all diversions.

now it might be true that some of us, in the past, bought into these diversions: oh, it's about to happen, he'll be arrested, they promise, she swears it. my sarajevo frnds thought i was totally bananas, which was true. i thought i could somehow will it to happen, but they knew their "frdns" fr the aggressor state better than i.

years ago we said: intrnl community must FORCE the issue, or it will never, ever happen. as usual we were right, right then, right now. and it is not always fun to be right.

your beloved mladic is living the life of luxury (that is, freedom)just a # of km from yr headquarters. all you can do is to reprint insipid articles and polls, and scream (was 3X per day): organ trafficking! organ trafficking! organ trafficking! which you sourced from that hack marty's SMEAR report, which just repeated allegations fr del ponte and co., and always in close collaboration with moscow and belgrade. so that now people have the frigin nerve! to compare thaci to mass-murderer mladic. so sick. or trying to relativize war guilt by having our beloved general divjak held as political prisoner.

the power of propaganda, the power of milosevic propaganda, and no one takes responsibility. no one. ever. no conscience, what's that? Let them all eat nationalism.

when i'm over in the balkans later this month, i will survey our own frnds, ngo's re mladic, and try to get his location closer than "km's fr media headquarters."

roberto
frisco
(roberto, 16 March 2011 03:03)

And introducing today's guest commentator... Charley Sheen!

hey, ian uk...
wasn't blair charged with war crimes over iraq... i mean, sure it'll be tough to make it stick, but truth is truth right?
(bobbie, 16 March 2011 00:48)

He hasn't been charged with War Crimes but he should be. I'd like to see that monster tried at the Hague along with Bush, have them locked up and throw away the Keys.

This is not a matter of democracy or public opinion.

Police do not have an election before they arrest a crook.

Mladic has to face trial, and if necessary that half of Serbia can go to the court with him. Who cares about the numbers who are corrupted by that way of thinking? I don't.

I do not understand how anyone can support a foul murderer.

Because I strongly support Serbia, I strongly support the idea of Mladic being put on trial and I do not care what court it is. Mladic may have served the Serbian cause in Bosnia, but he did not fight honourably. As a soldier that makes him much less than the best. Anyone who gives up Mladic is hero to Serbia and anyone who protects him supports a murderer and is a traitor to the good name of Serbia.

The only honourable thing left for Mladic is to put himself up for trial. Others have done that and at least deserve respect for being prepared to face their accusers rather than hiding in holes.

If you support a murderer, please rethink your life and your politics. And stop trying to blame everyone else for the situation. NATO, EU, etc were not the cause of Serbia's problems - they are just a reaction to the nasty nationalism and political incompetence in Serbia in the 90s.

I really do want Serbia out of the rut it was in, and hopefully these bits from the grubby past will be dealt with soon.

Absolutely right. That's because we're viewing Serbia from Serbia and not from some chetnik club in Sydney.
(Milos Obilic, 16 March 2011 14:52)
=======================

You say chetnik as if it was a bad thing.

You say chetnik as if it was a bad thing.
(Peggy, 17 March 2011 11:51)

How do you work that out? Anyway, Good Morning Australia! Now come back here and pay some tax.

You say chetnik as if it was a bad thing.
(Peggy, 17 March 2011 11:51)

How do you work that out?
=================

Implication, context.

Hi Peggy

I don't care even if the court plays politics (although you are saying that and not me) as long as it gives a well considered published conclusion at the end of the trial.

Mladic should be in the Hague, and it does no good for the future of Serbia to argue otherwise.

To try to turn this into a political issue is spurious and counter productive.

It does no good for Serbia for the world to know that people in Serbia defend someone like Mladic - all that does is confirm to the outside world that there is still a problem with Serbia coming to terms with the issues.

What else do you expect from Serbia ?!
(xheffo, 15 March 2011 13:48)

Couldn't have said it better myself.
(ivan)
-
Then stop expecting things. :)

In Serbia:
*) Mladic is not a hero
*) They overthrew Milosovic, and it was not because of the bombing but because of his policies. Hundreds of thousands protested and some died
*) Most people HATED the war, and they tried very hard to avoid being forced to join the army
*) Milosovic was handed over to the Hague, and Karadzic. Mladic would be as well, but the Serbs are noticing that they seem to be the only ones geeting punished, and don't feel it is fair as there were atrociities on all sides. As stated earlier they wanted to try him in Serbia where he would have been found guilty and the trial would have been faster.
*) Most people were happy to see Montenegro go
*) Many people don't care about Kosovo because of the economic situation now, but feel it is their holy place and should be part of Serbia

That is why when I read about "Serbs think Mladic is a hero" I shake my head, because most don't. What I see on the streets of Serbia isn't what some people on this forum claim it to be.

I do not believe that the majority of Serbs would support Mladic. I also hope that Serbia moves onto a path of promise.

However, unfortunately, according to Radio Free Europe and a survey, the majority of Serbs do not know and/or accept the facts of 1991-1999.

Facts are stubborn things:

1991-95: The ancient city of Dubrovnik, Croatia, is bombed by Serb and Montenegrian sea forces (ships). Large numbers of civilians are killed, Catholic churches set in flames, and UNESCO sites destroyed.

1991-95: Paramilitary forces commit a slaughter in Vukovar, Croatia. The town is destroyed. Mass graves are still being found.

1992-1996: Sarajevo is is put under seige. This will be the longest seige in the history of modern warfare. Paramilitary/Yugoslav forces commit another slaughter. Churches, hopitals, homes, libraries, and museums are bombed. Snipers pick off civilians trying to get food and water. Vukovar is already well under way. The city is almost completely destroyed. More mass graves. Only stops in 1996 because of the Dayton Accords.

1992-96: Mostar is attacked by the Yugo National Army and Serb-Montenegrian forces. Churches and mosques are destroyed. More mass graves

1992-96: After the Yugo Army occupation of Prijedor, 60,000 Muslims have taken refuge in Srebrenica. Despite the UN Security Council Resolution of 1995 (trying to make Srebrenica a 'safe haven" in appaling conditions) Serbia attacks. The UN tried for a cease fire, but it is not passed and the Dutch leave. 8,000 men and boys are slaughtered in the biggest genocide outside of WWII. Serbs destroy mosques and Catholic monasteries. Karadzic and Mladic are important leaders.

1999 March 18: an international Peace Accord is signed in Paris. Milosevic boycotts.

March 20: International monitors withdraw from Kosovo. NATO believes that Kosovo will become another Srebrenica. Now known for about 3 years.

March 23: Richard Holbrooke arrives in Belgrade and talks to Milosevic and asks for the Peace Accord. The Serb Parliament solidly rejects the accord and sending peace keeping troops into Kosovo.

March 24: NATO bombing begins.

2000: Milosevic overwhelmingly protested, but secure in Belgrade in his villa.

2003: Zoran Djindjic assasinated by Serbs in downtown Belgrade. He was even on crutches at the time. Djindjic turned Milosevic over to the Hague.

2008: Karadzic finally found hiding out in New Belgrade. Twelve years after Srebrenica. Now in The Hague.

2011: Mladic still not found. Likely in Serbia. Fifteen years after Srebrenica and 20 years after the beginning of the wars.

Very brief history. In a nut shell, the international community did not trust that Milosevic, his army either stop or be able to police themselves.
They still are not sure that Serbia has the requisite maturity and majority.

My belief? The people in power now are largely hopeless, and some even dangerous.

My hope? That there is a critical mass of of citizens, mostly under the age of 30, who will say enough. You have not been represented well for at least 20 years and should not tolerate it any longer. Many were young chidren when the wars started. But you are grown up now.

The Tadic group was likely legitimate, but has proven they have no competence or authority. Too much time has been wasted, and they will waste more. Djindic showed great promise and courage, but he was murdered. It has already been 8 years since his assassination.

How much more time is anyone willing to give up?

Early elections please. But take your vote and representation very seriously.

All democracies get the leadership they deserve.

Hi Peggy

On this one you are wrong. There is no politics in arresting murderers.

Bob
(Bob, 17 March 2011 14:44)
=========================

Yes, but when the court is playing politics then you have no choice.

However, unfortunately, according to Radio Free Europe and a survey, the majority of Serbs do not know and/or accept the facts of 1991-1999.

(Charli, 16 March 2011 22:41)

I suggest you look at the Author of that article first, his name is Nenad Pejic, his nationality, Bosniak. His old job was Sarajevan TV, meaning he's worked in propoganda before

Hi Peggy

Fine by me - send him to the Hague and make sure that they are under pressure to give him a fair trial.

Exactly what I want.

I am glad we want the same thing.

Politics is a separate matter and criminals should not be players.

Hi Peggy

Why are you so concerned about him or the Hague - why should you see it as a problem?

As I have said in an earlier posting, I don't care what court he goes too, and actually, I don't have much of a hang up about the Hague.

What I do have a hang up about is murderers, and people who support murderers as part of their politics.

I can see no reason to support Mladic, and I think it is a big problem for Serbia that there are people who put his status and how me might get tried above the fact that nasty murders were done.

And don't blame NATO and the west - all that started within the Balkans by those whose nasty nationalism broke up the YU.

I have no sympathy for your arguments at all, and go as far as to say that you are mislead and terribly wrong to make an issue of this man's appointment with necessary justice. Mladic needs to answer somewhere. When someone has a gun fired and dies - there is blood on the ground. There is a reality to what happened - this is not a philosophical or political issue.

I read your postings and follow your cause - but defending Mladic is against the cause. I don't put words in your mouth - I show surprise at the issue you choose to pursue and perhaps thought better than was appropriate.

roberto said, "oh, has anyone in that country ever heard of investigative reporting?"

You, who has no first hand knowledge and lacks objectivity asks about investigative reporting. Too funny!!

roberto also wrote... "i think that my voice should carry at least as much weight as other journalists or investigators"

Yea, right.
There is something rather pathetic about a person who has to blow their own horn.

Don't quit your middle school job.

Peggy, your arguing the concept of justice with a troll who doesn't understand the concept of innocent until proven guilty. He's all for the old 'givem a fair trial and then a right fine hangin' idea. Of course we've seen the Hague jump the gun on that when before.

I'm betting he agrees with every word 'charli' wrote.

Hi Peggy

Fine by me - send him to the Hague and make sure that they are under pressure to give him a fair trial.

Exactly what I want.

I am glad we want the same thing.

Politics is a separate matter and criminals should not be players.
(Bob, 18 March 2011 13:34)
=====================

WRONG. We don't want the same thing.
I already stated firmly that I don't believe in Hague and he should not be tried there.

Can you please tell me how can Serbia put pressure on Hague to give him a fair trial? Please , only a serious answer and next time don't put words in my mouth either.

@Bob,
I have already explained all that to you earlier but if you don't have the intelligent to comprehend then that's your problem.

I have no intention of repeating myself and frankly I don't care what you think so kindly get off my back.